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Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits. Practicing lawyer, Senior Family Mediator, and former Licensed Clinical Social Worker with twelve years’ experience and an expert on navigating the Family Court process.
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Author Topic: kids won't respond to my texts/calls  (Read 436 times)
truthbeknown
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« on: July 28, 2015, 02:40:30 PM »

I have put up posts before about the PA that is going on with my kids.  3-4 weeks ago i had them for vacation and they were instructed (it appeared) to contact my ex each night to check in with her.

She has a way of making them afraid by seeming like it's important that they check in with her.

On the flip side,  they went away with her for a week-10 days and now they are not answering their phones (which i pay for).  this is very hurtful and although i'll keep trying and be optimistic that i'll get ahold of them there is a deep pain that i go through when this happens.  It's too early to panic but i'm supposed to see them this weekend. 

Keeping my fingers crossed.  Just needed to have some people hear because i feel so alone in this psychological battle with my ex and the war she has waged on me.

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david
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« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2015, 03:07:01 PM »

How old are your kids ?
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Thunderstruck
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« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2015, 03:21:04 PM »

What is your normal schedule like?

My DH's uBPDx is always playing games with phone calls and DH hardly receives any when SD10 is with her mom. We have SD10 call her mom nightly when she is with us. The court order says that phone calls are to be made nightly. uBPDbm canceled SD10s cell phone, is threatening to call the police if DH calls her (uBPDbm's) phone, and says that the only way he can contact SD10 is by facebook messanger. 

Our typical night goes like this:

8pm: SD10 is supposed to call for her court ordered nightly call with DH. She doesn't.

8pm: DH calls uBPDbm's phone, she doesn't answer, he leaves a voicemail

8pm: DH sends uBPDbm a message on Our Family Wizard asking SD10 to call him back

9pm: SD10 still hasn't called (during school, 9 is her bedtime)

9pm: DH tries uBPDbm's phone again, sometimes SD10 answers, most times not

9pm: If he still hasn't received a call, he will follow up with another message in OFW (document document document... .)

It's frustrating. A parent shouldn't have to jump through so many hoops just to get a simple call from their child. We keep documenting in hopes that it'll factor into a court decision to give us majority. We'll see.
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truthbeknown
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« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2015, 09:10:31 PM »

I finally got a call today from my youngest on my sons phone (btw they're 10/14) .  Apparently they got back on Sat but their mom went to work today.  They feel like they are betraying her by calling me but my guess is that my youngest is the one who still secretly wants to talk to me.   

Yes, i hate that we parents who have been through this have ex partners that manipulate the kids and use them as weapons.  It's so damaging for everyone.   

thanks for listening.   It helped just venting a little.
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david
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« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2015, 09:40:57 PM »

In 2007 I went to court and became an EOW dad since the judge stated "I believe mom's are better at raising small children than dad's are." I am now at 50/50 in our court order. Lots of money to get there.

Anyway, Ex gave S5 a cell phone. I was told that I was not allowed to touch it by ex. I didn't understand why she gave our 5 year old a phone but not our 11 year old. I didn't question her since it seemed it would trigger her if I questioned the wisdom of it. The first one got lost. Not sure where. He took the second one apart to see how it worked. The third one he lost at his mom's. The fourth one was lost. Not sure where. She stopped buying him a cell phone after that.

The house phone at their mom's seemed to always be lost ? Our oldest figured out how to call me from his computer. He never told his mom and called me on a regular basis whenever she wasn't home with them. The youngest one would talk to me too but they both told me not to let their mom know what they were doing.

After about 4 years things settled down and the house phone stopped getting lost.

I read bill Eddy's book and that helped a lot with disarming PA. Ex also helped by lying to them so much that they no longer believe anything she says.
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whirlpoollife
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« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2015, 10:12:22 PM »

I've have been though the phone issues with kids phones ,that I pay for , and after a three year divorce , I still do. Volume gets off , my D phone gets lost.  kids won't talk to me while x is near them. So it's mostly text when they are with their dad. And I am very careful what is said because I'm 99.9% sure he checks the phones daily. 

Xh on the other hand calls the kids on my home home three times a day each. They tell him everything.    Plus he texts late to the kids after his calls.  He has just his cell phone, no landline phone and when D phone is lost he texts for me to call her on his phone. I don't because it will just get recorded.

So the phone games and control with them and kids continue.

When  the kids are with you ,after they settle in with you, I would ask them first where their phones were. Second ask why they didn't contact you. Ask if they are afraid to talk to you while their mother is near them. If answer is yes , good time to ask why.   Also ask them, who pays for the phones . They will say , you do.

Right ... .then contact me with them. Or answer my calls . If not by calling back then text to you.

I had to say this to my kids more than once and twice etc. 
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Ulysses
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« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2015, 11:42:37 PM »

This is a timely thread and reading it makes me feel not so alone.  I bought my kids' cell phones.  ExNPDBPDh puts games on them, puts his fiancee's website on D6 phone, which I just rolled my eyes at.  Kids used to text me sometimes, talk each day.  Court order says I can call them 2 x/day.  I've only ever asked for one x/day.  He makes it very difficult and many days I can't reach them.  It's hard and very hurtful.  I try not to take it personally but there are days I feel like a failure.  Mostly I just feel immense sadness when I can't talk to my children.
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truthbeknown
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« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2015, 08:12:43 AM »

Since i did finally get ahold of my kids I was able to tell them i am coming to visit this weekend.  So i'm here with them and once we're together things are okay and I feel better.   I try not to let the communication get tied to my self esteem or feel that i need something to go a certain way in order to feel complete as a person.  However, from reading the other comments it seems like alot of us are up against the same dynamic.  It's hurtful and downright abusive for the other parent to create these dynamics but i tell myself that this is part of the disease.  Unfortunately, it's not like a physical disease where your ex is suffering from a certain something and you know it's not contagious.  This mental disease seems contagious in that it infects the children and the only way to be able to treat it is to quaranteen them from the diseased partner.  Since that is not realistic, it appears to me that they will carry the torch of her illness for quite some time.   It doesn't mean that we can't have fun when we're together or that i can't reflect back some sort of a stability.  It just means it's an uphill battle because they are constantly exposed to mind manipulations and unheathy behaviors on the part of the mentally ill parent.

David: i'm curious what part of the book helped you with the PA?

whirlpoollife: I have questioned them about the phones but i have found that they lie to protect their behaviors.  For example, they will go so far as to say they tried to contact me or call me and i have no log of it.   Also, they magically don't receive my texts or voicemails but they get everyone elses.   I try to show them how hurtful it is that their older brother and sister don't contact me by doing a little experiment with them.  I text my older kids (who i have very little to no contact with except for bdays and holiday texts) and they don't respond.  Then I ask my 14yo to text them and he gets either an instant response or within the hour response.  When he gets the response i look at him and I say: see this is very hurtful when people answer to one person but purposefully don't answer to another.  My son just says, "i don't know what to tell you dad."  And i have said, "please promise me that you will keep the lines of communication open."  If there is anything you are upset at me about and want to talk to me about just know that it is okay to talk to me about it.  Your brother and sister seem like they are mad at me and they don't even tell me why? Therefore there is no chance to work things out. Healthy communication is about telling the other person why you don't like something or are upset about something so the two people have a chance to work things out." 

I know it seems like lecturing but it's the only thing i can think of and i'm being open and truthfull   with them.  It may not work but at least i feel better that i tried to teach them how hurtful passive aggressive behavior (without telling them the name for it) is and what "healthy" communciation could look like.  Whether they choose to listen or not is is different story.

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david
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« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2015, 08:31:44 AM »

It was a shift in my way of thinking. I thought that taking the high road and not challenging things was the way to go. Instead the book suggests that you must take each attempt at pa and deal with it. I never badmouthed their mom but I didn't just let things go like I did before.

I also began to realize that our two boys became close mouthed about everything. They didn't want to upset their mom or me. I realized it was because of the consequences their mother gave them for any "disobedience". She is a yeller and a punisher. I don't yell, never did. The discipline, from me, was less punishing and more discussing consequences of an action. Also, having consistent consequences is important. My ex immediately goes to drastic consequences for minor things. The boys were walking on eggshells and were trying to survive. Took me back to my relationship with ex.

I decided the most important thing for them was to be able to trust me. Slowly they opened up. I realized early on that sharing info with ex backfired on the boys so I went to a very strict parallel parenting style. That gave them the safety of talking to me about what they were experiencing at their moms'. Listening and validating at that point was the key.
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david
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« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2015, 08:51:11 AM »

There have been a few times I believed that ex needed to know something either boy told me. In those circumstances I let them know I would be emailing their mom with the info.
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PinkieV
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« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2015, 12:03:41 PM »

My SS's never answered their phones when DH called, and BM rarely. Severe PAS. Once we found out she was going to jail and sued for custody, we found out older SS would use video games to communicate.

It's still touchy now when younger SS15 visits her - it's two states away. On Memorial Day, we didn't get a text when he landed, or for the whole weekend. When we picked him up at the airport and were on the freeway headed home, we asked him to let BM know he made it home okay, and he had as soon as he'd landed. It's definitely a fear thing. We explained that it was upsetting to us not to at least hear from him when he landed, and asked that next time he text from the plane. He could even go so far as to delete the conversation so she doesn't get mad at him.

Last summer she would keep his phone and pretend to be him. SS19 knew because they had a code word and she didn't respond correctly. He then told her "Give N his phone back" and there was no answer.

At the end of the school year, he told her he had decided he wanted to stay with us. She accused DH of PAS. SS15 told me one day "she's accusing dad of doing the same thing to her that she did to him. But I can talk to her any time I want, and I go see her. She doesn't get it." Thankfully he does. She didn't set up summer visitation and he was fine with that. He doesn't want to visit at Christmas, but we'll have to see if she decides she wants him and will actually pay for the ticket.
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Eco
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« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2015, 06:54:50 PM »

Excerpt
So i'm here with them and once we're together things are okay and I feel better.   I try not to let the communication get tied to my self esteem or feel that i need something to go a certain way in order to feel complete as a person.  However, from reading the other comments it seems like alot of us are up against the same dynamic

You definitely are not alone in that feeling, I go through the exact same thing. I think im my own worst enemy because im on edge a little bit when my daughter is away and with in minutes after getting her from my ex im so relaxed and at ease. I think I worry about what my ex is or isn't doing when she has my daughter concerning PA and just basic decisions for that matter as she has made some very poor decisions that are risky. I think its normal to worry given the disorder we all deal with but I think where I make more trouble for myself is making the worry a 24/7 thing, Im a little ocd so that doesn't help but I try to keep as positive as I can while she is away so that when I do have her im not mentally and emotionally drained because that's no good for her or me.

The gym helps a lot and planning on how to deal with PA and educating myself on that subject and ways to help my daughter cope.

Excerpt
I realized it was because of the consequences their mother gave them for any "disobedience". She is a yeller and a punisher. I don't yell, never did. The discipline, from me, was less punishing and more discussing consequences of an action. Also, having consistent consequences is important. My ex immediately goes to drastic consequences for minor things. The boys were walking on eggshells and were trying to survive. Took me back to my relationship with ex.

I don't want to hijack this thread but I would like to pick your brain and get your advice on how to deal with PA and the best way to help my daughter because from what ive read from your posts our exs are very alike. My ex like yours is very intimidating and yells and loves punishment for the smallest things and is very cruel about it, she keeps her kids in line through fear. I don't yell either and am a night and day difference in how I handle her.
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ennie
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« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2015, 01:50:19 AM »

DH deals with this one... .lots of PA.  SD15 and SD11 would never call us, but BPD mom would flip out if they did not call her, and would make up all kinds of stories... .that DH would tell the kids they could never call their mom, had to sneak outside to do it, etc... .when they would call her 3-5 times a week, never call DH.  And, BPD mom NEVER called for them. 

She got so upset at DH about all of the ways he kept the kids from calling at any time day or night (the only time he said "no" was when the kids would finally sit down for homework after 15 excuses and glasses of water and snacks and then would say, "I want to call my mom.  You have to let me!" and DH would say, "Sounds great, once you finish homework.). So she filed a motion with the court asking for a court order... .they said the only way they could tell if he was letting the kids call would be if they had a specific time. She railed against this, saying that it should be flexible, but agreed to the judge's suggestion of a specific weekly time on sunday.  for the first year, the kids never called. But they called every time from our house.  I think they were late for their call 3 times in 5 years.  So at some point, DH entered in an alarm into their phones, time to call mom/dad.  After a year or so, they just started calling.  They are not totally regular, but I think they started realizing that it was weird that they always call when the alarm is at dads, never at moms.

Of course, she complains constantly about him "forcing" her to call at this time, that the time is terrible for her, etc... .though this was all her doing.  Oh, well.  At least the kids call!

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truthbeknown
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« Reply #13 on: August 03, 2015, 08:47:09 AM »

my oldest son (21) finally called me on his way back to college.  I didn't get to see him before he left yesterday and like so many of you are saying: I believe it's because when they are with her or at her house they feel like they are betraying her if they talk to me.  We did have a good conversation and i   think I was able to help him with some of his issues regarding taxes (he has been doing indep. contracting work).   While we were having that conversation though it came out that his mom claimed him on taxes last year even though there was alot of drama about that and she lied to my olderst daughter about it (which she is still mad at me for).   I was very close to writing a text to him before i received his call telling him that i wasn't go to chase him anymore and it was very hurtful that he hasn't responeded to my messages.   I'm glad I waited or delayed that.  Alot of emotions build up over this and sometimes I just want to tell them how I feel.  However, after talking to him I guess I realize they must think i'm strong enough to handle not communicating and since she does have their cell phones under her plan they are probably afraid she will check the records. 

BTW, my ex has answered my youngest daughters texts from.  I know this because my daughter is partially dislexic and can't spell very well.   My ex spells perfectly and gives responses she thinks my daughter would say but that she doesn't typically.   I think my daughter knows her mom is checking her phone now so she doesn't even charge it.  It's probably easier for her to not deal with it.  Again, this sucks but I know they are just trying to survive in a dictators environment.   Wish i could invent a little electronic bird that would find the kids when they are by themselves and air video messages from me and visa versa.

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ProfDaddy
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« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2015, 09:45:36 PM »

Been there, done that, I feel your pain and am sad for the children.  With me, years ago, once I disengaged from the conflict, it ceased to be fun for my ex to pull those strings, and the issue settled.  But it was awful for everyone when we were in the thick of it. 

The feelings of betrayal when talking to the other parent can be huge and damaging for children.  Be sure to give them many chances around you to express those feelings, validate their concerns.  Model appropriate behavior on your end, allowing them to speak to the other parent, giving them space and privacy to do so.

You can't control the other household.  The harder you try, the more your ex wins in that sick little game.  Putting the children in the middle of an argument about it is harmful, so you're stuck (yep, it sucks).  Keep a log and document what you can so that if you ever need to take the parenting plan back to court for a more serious problem, you also have evidence about this one.  
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