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Author Topic: Im terrified to leave  (Read 468 times)
hp

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« on: August 02, 2015, 04:21:25 AM »

Hello,

I am reaching out because i have so little support and wanted to get some advice. I dont have lots of therapy resources where I am not know who might be able to help.

I am in a relationship again with my ex_GF. She broke up with me after years of dealing with my neediness/clingyness and abandonment fears (i am 47 male, she is 41 female). We lived and dated together for about 4 years. We remained in contact after a period of not talking and i visited her last year for old times sake. I had the same strong feelings and felt my lonliness an sadness lift for the first time in a while. Suffered some major losses in last few years including both parents, but i had issues before that.

I moved back to her country and we started a business together to support my visa. She did this to help me and even let me stay at her place until i got everything settled. Its been 6 months *the visa is taking long time* but we have had a lot of fun and i finally feel i can function and focus knowing I am with her again. The problem is my old habits of not doing my own thing, afraid to be apart, etc... .and her type being a loner, its stressing her out. She has moods where she says she wants me to move out and we are not BF and GF anymore ( I assumed we were since acting like it.). The sex has stopped and as i feel her getting more irritable, i get more scared. She mentioned when i get my visa i have to go. She said this in a bad mood, so i dont know if she means it since days later she seems OK again.

I want to give her space and do things alone and let her have alone time (i have been with her almost every second she is not working for the last 6 months, but i dont get tired of it, she is). I dont have job right now, no friends, no family... she is my whole world... the idea of moving out is scary since then i dont know when can see her and at the mercy of when she replies. I dont want to go back to that feeling of uncertainty. I know if i live wiht her will see her at the end of the day. its suffocating for her i guess. My fear is so strong, i can see its selfish but i cant seem to override it. I know her image of me is formed and no matter what i do she will see me as weak and dependent, but I want to at least give her space and see if can salage things. She says we are not in relationship, but i thought we were. Shocked, scared and needing some help. I want her to change her mind and if i can give her space, maybe she will... i dont know. Thank you.
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hp

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« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2015, 07:38:08 AM »

**edit

I should have stressed that in her outburst moment, she said she started the business with me to help me get a visa, but never said we are dating again or plans to have future. I guess i took our relative peace of living together as a sign we werre back. We took trips and she seemed to act as my GF. she also said moving out has nothing to do with me, she just likes to live alone, so even i change im not sure will have effect, but i want to try. It could have to do with me but saying it that way leaves no room for talk. She never did live with anyone after we broke up and she is a loner so i dont doubt it. I just want her to changer her mind and dont want to go back to being obsessive and living that way.
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hp

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« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2015, 09:00:23 AM »

**(another edit, sorry)

I feel the worst part is seeing how selfish I am acting and don't want to, but the urge to not feel the white hot fear is so strong, it literally feels like life and death to mybody even though i know its not. i can't see this objectively. Avoiding fear is creating the very outcome i dont want. how can i reverse it in time?

thank you and sorry so many edits
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EaglesJuju
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« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2015, 09:27:12 AM »

Hi hp, 

Welcome aboard. 

I completely understand how difficult it is to have abandonment fears. It is terrifying for someone who suffers from these fears.   

I am diagnosed with DPD (dependent personality disorder) and I have felt the exact way that you are describing. It has felt like life and death when my abandonment fears are triggered.  I have been clingy/needy in order to not trigger those fears in the past. I have felt the sadness/loneliness  and felt extreme anxiety when faced with abandonment. 

I have been working on it in therapy for awhile now, but it is still tough at times when my person with BPD (pwBPD) has triggered me.  Does certain behavior from your ex/gf trigger you?

One thing that I have learned from therapy is that you cannot change how anyone else thinks or behaves, you can only change your own thoughts and behavior.  Have you ever discussed the status of your relationship with her?


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hp

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« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2015, 09:58:51 AM »

Thank you so much for your reply. it is a bit of a comfort to know others feel the same way. It sounds like you really understand.

While I have no formal diagnosis, I feel I fit very well the description of DPD. I used to think BPD because of the abandonment fear and splitting, overvalue/undervalue, but since no rage and no self harm, I feel DPD hits more of my typical behavior and thoughts in relating to others.

Good for you working on tnis in therapy. I am yet to find someone who really gets this issue and knows more about it than i do. I feel she may have NPD/BPD traits since has extreme mood swings and can be really up then really moody. When moody i walk on eggshells and feel she is in bad mood because of me when sometimes nothing to do with me.

I feel triggered when she is silent or doesn't talk much or gets angry. I am really senstive to her anger and moods.

I have been afraid to discuss our status since i had an inkling that us being back together was all in my head, that for her she is just going along with it. When she had that outburst, she said we are not BF/GF and she broke up with me years ago. i dont know if she says that when mad and doesnt mean it or its her truth and comes out when cant hold it in anymore... im not sure.

I dont like to talk since not sure will like the answers i get... .
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EaglesJuju
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« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2015, 10:40:20 AM »

Good for you working on tnis in therapy. I am yet to find someone who really gets this issue and knows more about it than i do.

Self-awareness and therapy have helped me considerably.  To truly over come the maladaptive behaviors of DPD (clinginess, neediness, people pleasing, pathological guilt, indecisiveness) you really need to work on your core issues at therapy. 

It is very difficult to face the emotions/feelings associated with abandonment. The maladaptive coping mechanisms are used to thwart 'abandonment depression." Honestly, the only way that you are going to recover is the face your fears and go through all of the horrible feelings associated with abandonment. I have been facing it for two years now. It is even harder when you are engaging in a cycle of push/pull behaviors. I have a very hard time coping with the push. The pull behavior is okay for me, and similar to people with BPD (pwBPD), pwDPD do engage in the pull behavior by needing 'closeness.'

I have recovered from most of my maladaptive behaviors. 

I feel she may have NPD/BPD traits since has extreme mood swings and can be really up then really moody. When moody i walk on eggshells and feel she is in bad mood because of me when sometimes nothing to do with me.

Walking on eggshells is really tough. I understand how you can feel that the behavior is because of you. The way to get over that is to learn about BPD/NPD. It is similar to learning about why you behave in a certain way, learning about BPD/NPD will help you depersonalize or radically accept the disorder. It is has helped me depersonalize the behavior. As a DPD sufferer, it is hard to not take responsibility for someone else's behavior, but you really need to understand that you are not the cause of her behavior. You are only the cause of your own.  Taking responsibility for someone else's behavior will only lead to more suffering for you. 

I  feel triggered when she is silent or doesn't talk much or gets angry. I am really senstive to her anger and moods.

Do you feel as if it is your fault?


I have been afraid to discuss our status since i had an inkling that us being back together was all in my head, that for her she is just going along with it. When she had that outburst, she said we are not BF/GF and she broke up with me years ago. i dont know if she says that when mad and doesnt mean it or its her truth and comes out when cant hold it in anymore... im not sure.

Take a look at the lessons on the right of this page. They will help you. 

You need to take care of yourself first though, especially if you are getting triggered by her behavior. If you do not take care of yourself first, it is going to be an endless cycle of you becoming triggered and triggering her engulfment/abandonment fears. 

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« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2015, 04:13:07 PM »

It is very difficult to face the emotions/feelings associated with abandonment. The maladaptive coping mechanisms are used to thwart 'abandonment depression." Honestly, the only way that you are going to recover is the face your fears and go through all of the horrible feelings associated with abandonment. I have been facing it for two years now. It is even harder when you are engaging in a cycle of push/pull behaviors. I have a very hard time coping with the push. The pull behavior is okay for me, and similar to people with BPD (pwBPD), pwDPD do engage in the pull behavior by needing 'closeness.'

Can you say more about this? Going through the feelings associated with abandonment meaning the root cause of that fear, and the feelings that come with it?

Hp, you're in good company here! It's a difficult path.
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EaglesJuju
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« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2015, 06:38:23 PM »

Can you say more about this? Going through the feelings associated with abandonment meaning the root cause of that fear, and the feelings that come with it?

The root cause of the fear differs. My abandonment fears stem from childhood. It is not one particular thing, but an amalgamation of events in my life.

PwDPD tend to hide behind  dependency. PwDPD avoid the fears of abandonment through their mask of dependency. The mask "protects" a pwDPD from assuming responsibility on their own life. They are dependent on another to make decisions and take control of their lives, because they feel helpless and believe that they cannot take care of themselves. They have problems expressing disagreement and are unable to function by themselves, so they will agree with others even if they think they are wrong in fear of losing support or being abandoned.  They will make extraordinary self sacrifices to maintain that support and lack self-confidence to initiate things.

I have hid behind a mask of dependency in fear of being abandoned. The thought of facing abandonment gave me so much anxiety. I would do whatever I could to prevent it, mainly by appeasing or being helpless.  I learned that if you are dependent or helpless then people will not leave you. I felt that I was worthless and stupid and could not do things on my own. That way of thinking was reinforced by my mother.

So there have been many times in my life, where I sabotaged myself. I would not allow myself to fully enjoy successes. I would doubt myself and regress in a sense. I would do all of this in order to not be abandoned.

Masterson uses the term abandonment depression to describe a series of feelings associated with abandonment. Although he uses this for pwBPD/pwNPD, it is very applicable to pwDPD.  It is an "umbrella term beneath the Six Horsemen of the Psychic Apocalypse: Depression, Panic, Rage, Guilt, Helplessness, and Emptiness." When I have felt this way, I have only experienced the rage or emptiness twice. The panic, guilt, helplessness, and depression are like living a nightmare. I become incredibly fragile and vulnerable when this has happened and it is like all of your defenses (maladaptive dependent behavior) are weakened. I felt like I was completely helpless, like I was drowning and I was getting pulled under water.  It feels like you are literally dying.  My anxiety got so high, that I thought I was having a heart attack. I felt really guilty as if everything was my fault, if I would not have done this or that, then I would not be feeling this way. This exacerbates the feeling of severe depression and panic. It was so bad at one point, I would have rather died than to suffer one more moment of this excruciating physical and mental anguish. When you actually experience real abandonment, not just 'perceived fear of abandonment," it is like your worst fear has come true. It is like living a nightmare.

Many times pwDPD/BPD will revert back to maladaptive coping mechanisms to stop feeling this way. It has been two years since I first faced the abandonment depression.  My pwBPD triggers it by his push behavior. I have learned not to revert to the coping mechanisms, but sometimes it is instinctual. I know what I can do to feel better, but I do not do these things, because I want to overcome. Honestly to truly recover from all of my maladaptive traits, I need to experience all of the feelings associated with it. It is horrible, but I know that there is a light at the end of the tunnel.



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« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2015, 08:50:56 PM »

Thanks, EaglesJuju. I am really encouraged that someone with this issue can make a relationship with someone with BPD work. I have similar issues.
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hp

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« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2015, 11:22:41 PM »

 EaglesJuju, thank you so much. I am inspired and excited to know its possible to recover, but concerned that it seems such a long hard road. I give you so much credit for facing your fears. Thank you for sharing your knowledge.

I really dont know for sure if she is pushing me away due to engulfment fears and that she is a loner, or it's about my personality which she has told me really isn't what she is looking for. I can't know which is the truth or maybe both. I just know that the behaviors i do to compensate make me feel better in the moment, but sabotage her seeing me as a healthy partner. She has issues herself with deep hatred for her father and weak men in general. but some of the things I do are really bizzare and I want to stop, but i watch myself do them over and over to feel some control. FOr example... .

- trying to look over her shoulder while on cellphone to see if looking to move away or move out. Sometimes she says she IS looking at apartments to get away from me, but 99% of time she isnt.

- waiting for her by her work and acting like i just bumped into her. its bizzare because we live together, no need to do that. She  jokes and says "hi stalker', but when she got mad last time she said its weird and not normal. I did things like that before and she ended up breaking it off. I used to have to go with her to her work and wait for her to finish (was unemployed).

- always be touching or close to her when in apartment and uncomfortable doing my own thing when she is around.

- asking for sex and being rejected is the worst. she lost attraction due to my clinginess I am sure. I dont ask much anymore.

she says she knows i hate myself and i have no confidence. she doesnt like my energy and i drain her when together too much. She has too much stress at work to have energy to give to me, she says. Thats why wants to live separate.

Everyday now i feel sick to my stomach waiting for when she will bring up moving out again. I cant relax and be confident and give her space, which might actually help. I am clinging on for dear life. This is our second time together and I so wanted to show her I am different, but these issues have not gone away. I want to get better. I want to stop feeling fear all. the. damn. time.

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hp

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« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2015, 11:27:24 PM »

EaglesJuku, by the way... can you recommend your therapist to me? Do they do Skype? The search to find someone who can deal with this is daunting and expensive to try out many people. Any advice on finding someone qualified who does Skype, or perhaps your doc?

Thanks!
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hp

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« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2015, 11:43:33 PM »

one thing to mention, I am not working since my career kind of fell apart and can't work legally anyway until get a visa. I also don't know what I will do for steady work, so lots of time to think and think and worry while waiting every day for her to finish her busy job. That isn't helping, for sure. I feel like a useless person and no wonder she isn't attracted anymore. I have no strong direction or career going anymore. I wish I had something passionate about to focus on, but I don't feel interested in anything anymore, just being around her.
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hp

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« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2015, 05:39:15 AM »

i guess for now, I am just getting a lot of feelings and information out of my head and on to virtual paper, so please bear with me for the many posts. I hope its OK... .

I realize that I have made her my savior, a God. If she is in a good mood and approves of me, I feel like a million dollars, happiest guy in the world. When bad mood or annoyed with me, I experience extreme anxiety and then resort to things to manipulate her mood like offering to go on trips (when money is tight and i dont have it), taking out to eat (same thing), massaging her, small talk... .etc.

I wish I could know that if I gave her massive space until I am having to move out (cant get apt until get visa), she may change her mind. The most challenging thing is the feeling I CAN"T GET MY WAY no matter how bad I want it. Sounds so childish, but I really deep down feel that I should get my way and not have to feel pain. It's crazy but I think I may believe that. I seem to not be able to deal with that gracefully. I somehow believe I really can control her, although intellectually i know I can't. It's odd.

I know in reality there is no one person who can make you happy and even then, another person can not make you happy. Why do i FEEL it so much though? Why do I feel i must have HER or I dont want anyone else and my life is over? Because I lost most of my family and feel like she is the only one living who knows me? I feel like without her, I have no identity. If we are separated, I will wonder where is and what doing, when can i see her... etc. minutes seem like hours, hours seem like days when waiting for replies (before i moved in).

Why do I assign her the role of my mother who has to be my everything and love me unconditionally? Its too much for anyone to bear. All my reading shows that needy/clingy guys kill attraction and get left. Its not love. That's why she says 'I see you as a kid/my son'. She does not respect me because she knows all she has to do is get mad and I will do anything. She has all the power, and that makes me so depressed and anxious. I just want to be free of this and I am starting to feel if she kicks me out, I will go back to being obsessive basket case in a country with little support and my life is over. No great job or career, no close friends and I am 47. So I hang on to her for dear life. I will start doing exercises here and on some other love addiction sites, as well as talk with some therapists to find the right one. If anyone has been helped a lot and has similar issues, please PM me... .thank you
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EaglesJuju
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« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2015, 07:41:24 AM »

I just know that the behaviors i do to compensate make me feel better in the moment, but sabotage her seeing me as a healthy partner. She has issues herself with deep hatred for her father and weak men in general. but some of the things I do are really bizzare and I want to stop, but i watch myself do them over and over to feel some control. FOr example... .

- trying to look over her shoulder while on cellphone to see if looking to move away or move out. Sometimes she says she IS looking at apartments to get away from me, but 99% of time she isnt.

- waiting for her by her work and acting like i just bumped into her. its bizzare because we live together, no need to do that. She  jokes and says "hi stalker', but when she got mad last time she said its weird and not normal. I did things like that before and she ended up breaking it off. I used to have to go with her to her work and wait for her to finish (was unemployed).

- always be touching or close to her when in apartment and uncomfortable doing my own thing when she is around.

- asking for sex and being rejected is the worst. she lost attraction due to my clinginess I am sure. I dont ask much anymore.

When you behave like this, what feelings/emotions does it assuage?

she says she knows i hate myself and i have no confidence. she doesnt like my energy and i drain her when together too much. She has too much stress at work to have energy to give to me, she says. Thats why wants to live separate.

Self-loathing is really tough to cope with.   Although I never have had feelings of self-loathing, I have felt shame before. Shame affects how we view ourselves and our self-worth. My pwBPD has extreme self-loathing and believes that he is a horrible person. The origin of self-loathing is related to shame. The cycle of shame/self-loathing becomes reinforced after time. Self-esteem is the byproduct of shame/self-loathing. It is a vicious cycle.

Positive self-talk/self-validation helps with low self-esteem and lack of confidence. Have you ever tried doing something like this before?



Everyday now i feel sick to my stomach waiting for when she will bring up moving out again. I cant relax and be confident and give her space, which might actually help. I am clinging on for dear life. This is our second time together and I so wanted to show her I am different, but these issues have not gone away. I want to get better. I want to stop feeling fear all. the. damn. time.

Try giving her space so she won't feel overwhelmed. Mindfulness really helps when you are feeling anxious.  It is a way of balancing your emotions with logic. Many times I will let my anxiety get the best out of me through worrying, even though my rationality/logic tells me that I do not need to be worried.  When I am being 'mindful' I can balance both my emotions and logic and be aware in the present. Take a look at this link.  Smiling (click to insert in post)

TOOLS: DBT for Non Borderlines- Mindfulness

one thing to mention, I am not working since my career kind of fell apart and can't work legally anyway until get a visa. I also don't know what I will do for steady work, so lots of time to think and think and worry while waiting every day for her to finish her busy job. That isn't helping, for sure. I feel like a useless person and no wonder she isn't attracted anymore. I have no strong direction or career going anymore. I wish I had something passionate about to focus on, but I don't feel interested in anything anymore, just being around her.

Boredom can exacerbate worries and fears. My suggestion is to take one thing at a time. Instead of looking at a problem or your current situation as one whole "problem,"

break it up into small pieces and work on one thing at a time.  There are four options for solving a problem: 1. Solve the problem-finding a way to change the situation or get out of the situation for good. 2. Feel better about the problem-changing your emotional responses to the problem; turning a negative into a positive. 3. Tolerate the problem-alleviating some of the stress associated with the problem. 4. Stay miserable-do nothing.

Try doing one positive thing each day. Positive things decrease negative emotions/feelings and increase positive emotions/feelings.  What things make you feel happy?

I realize that I have made her my savior, a God. If she is in a good mood and approves of me, I feel like a million dollars, happiest guy in the world. When bad mood or annoyed with me, I experience extreme anxiety and then resort to things to manipulate her mood like offering to go on trips (when money is tight and i dont have it), taking out to eat (same thing), massaging her, small talk... .etc.

Only you can change your perceptions. You cannot change or control another person's thoughts or behavior. Letting another person's behavior affect you is going to be a never ending cycle of self-blame. The way to break that cycle is to realize that she is responsible for herself and let go of the feeling that you are responsible for her behavior etc. Self-worth comes from you, not someone else.

I know in reality there is no one person who can make you happy and even then, another person can not make you happy. Why do i FEEL it so much though? Why do I feel i must have HER or I dont want anyone else and my life is over? Because I lost most of my family and feel like she is the only one living who knows me? I feel like without her, I have no identity. If we are separated, I will wonder where is and what doing, when can i see her... etc. minutes seem like hours, hours seem like days when waiting for replies (before i moved in).

You need to make yourself happy. You are right no one else can do that. Happiness comes from within you accepting who you are. The reason why you feel that your life is over without her, is because your sense of self-worth is attached to her. When she is 'happy' you feel happy and worthwhile. When she is not happy, you feel that you do not exist.  You are dependent on her to tell you how to feel and what your worth is.

Why do I assign her the role of my mother who has to be my everything and love me unconditionally? Its too much for anyone to bear. All my reading shows that needy/clingy guys kill attraction and get left. Its not love. That's why she says 'I see you as a kid/my son'. She does not respect me because she knows all she has to do is get mad and I will do anything. She has all the power, and that makes me so depressed and anxious. I just want to be free of this and I am starting to feel if she kicks me out, I will go back to being obsessive basket case in a country with little support and my life is over. No great job or career, no close friends and I am 47. So I hang on to her for dear life. I will start doing exercises here and on some other love addiction sites, as well as talk with some therapists to find the right one.

There are a couple of psychological reasons why you give her the role of your mother. One reason could be that your mother could not have provided this for you during childhood. Another reason is your mother did not encourage you to be different and nourish your real self. Essentially she reinforced that being different is wrong. You really would have to go back to childhood and analyze why/when you started feeling this way. The best way to do that is through therapy. 

I can understand that you feel helpless and out of control. The only way you are going to start to feel in control, is to break dependency. It does take time to get to a point where you have enough confidence to initiate things on your own.
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hp

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« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2015, 01:14:37 AM »

When you behave like this, what feelings/emotions does it assuage?

That I feel powerless or not in control, fear, anxiety and extreme discomfort.

Positive self-talk/self-validation helps with low self-esteem and lack of confidence. Have you ever tried doing something like this before?

I have tried before but i guess didnt stick with it for long. Considering doing again,but was doubtful it works since not believing it.

What things make you feel happy?

Nothing much, I am used to enjoy intense exercise, but with chronic injuries that are not healing, i cant do that for a long time. I dont really know what else i enjoy.

I know self-worth must come from inside and not outside. Thats part of the problem is that i know it in my mind, but I am not FEELING that is true. I keep feeling i need her to be in good mood to feel good, even though i know its BS. I dont know how to not feel that.

The most vexing part: We will go for days where even we ar together most of day, she is fine and we laugh, joke around... etc. Even mention about plans that involve future. Then suddenly when she is tried or stressed, mood will change and will become very cold and saying she wants to be alone or take a trip alone. I get nervous, she sees this, gets more annoyed... etc, etc. She isnt consistent so I never know where I stand.

I dont know how I became this selfish, i can see how selfish i am being, but its like I cant stop it. My fears are stronger than wanting to be giving. I dont know how to change that. I hope to get some answers/ideas.

Other tough thing is I have started a business with her in order to support my visa here, so I cant just leave or break contact even if that were best. Ive invested a lot of money in this and also am/was excited to be doing this together with her, its just her moods and plans change so much, i never know what is coming next.

Thank you for your support!
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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
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« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2015, 07:17:46 AM »

When you behave like this, what feelings/emotions does it assuage?

That I feel powerless or not in control, fear, anxiety and extreme discomfort.

I understand the feelings of fear, anxiety, and discomfort. I have felt like this too.

These feelings primarily stem from abandonment fears.

Positive self-talk/self-validation helps with low self-esteem and lack of confidence. Have you ever tried doing something like this before?

I have tried before but i guess didnt stick with it for long. Considering doing again,but was doubtful it works since not believing it.

Positive self-talk does take time and practice. It is something that you need to do everyday. 

Understanding why you think the way you do is a start to help building self-esteem/self-worth.  When we are feeling depressed it always is accompanied by negative thoughts. Negative thoughts are what causes feeling of depression and anxiety. How you perceive things affects your thoughts (cognitions). Your thoughts then affect your feelings/emotions. When we start thinking with cognitive distortions, our view of the world/things/situation becomes twisted in a sense.

David Burns M.D. suggests that there are 10 forms of cognitive distortions:

1. All-or-nothing thinking - You see things in black-or-white categories. If a situation falls short of perfect, you see it as a total failure. When a young woman on a diet ate a spoonful of ice cream, she told herself, "I've blown my diet completely." This thought upset her so much that she gobbled down an entire quart of ice cream.

2. Overgeneralization - You see a single negative event, such as a romantic rejection or a career reversal, as a never-ending pattern of defeat by using words such as "always" or "never" when you think about it. A depressed salesman became terribly upset when he noticed bird dung on the window of his car. He told himself, "Just my luck! Birds are always crapping on my car!"

3. Mental Filter - You pick out a single negative detail and dwell on it exclusively, so that your vision of reality becomes darkened, like the drop of ink that discolors a beaker of water. Example: You receive many positive comments about your presentation to a group of associates at work, but one of them says something mildly critical. You obsess about his reaction for days and ignore all the positive feedback.

4. Discounting the positive - You reject positive experiences by insisting that they "don't count." If you do a good job, you may tell yourself that it wasn't good enough or that anyone could have done as well. Discounting the positives takes the joy out of life and makes you feel inadequate and unrewarded.

5. Jumping to conclusions - You interpret things negatively when there are no facts to support your conclusion.

Mind Reading : Without checking it out, you arbitrarily conclude that someone is reacting negatively to you.

Fortune-telling : You predict that things will turn out badly. Before a test you may tell yourself, "I'm really going to blow it. What if I flunk?" If you're depressed you may tell yourself, "I'll never get better."

6. Magnification - You exaggerate the importance of your problems and shortcomings, or you minimize the importance of your desirable qualities. This is also called the "binocular trick."

7. Emotional Reasoning - You assume that your negative emotions necessarily reflect the way things really are: "I feel terrified about going on airplanes. It must be very dangerous to fly." Or, "I feel guilty. I must be a rotten person." Or, "I feel angry. This proves that I'm being treated unfairly." Or, "I feel so inferior. This means I'm a second rate person." Or, "I feel hopeless. I must really be hopeless."

8. "Should" statements - You tell yourself that things should be the way you hoped or expected them to be. After playing a difficult piece on the piano, a gifted pianist told herself, "I shouldn't have made so many mistakes." This made her feel so disgusted that she quit practicing for several days. "Musts," "oughts" and "have tos" are similar offenders.

"Should statements" that are directed against yourself lead to guilt and frustration. Should statements that are directed against other people or the world in general, lead to anger and frustration: "He shouldn't be so stubborn and argumentative!"

Many people try to motivate themselves with shoulds and shouldn'ts, as if they were delinquents who had to be punished before they could be expected to do anything. "I shouldn't eat that doughnut." This usually doesn't work because all these shoulds and musts make you feel rebellious and you get the urge to do just the opposite. Dr. Albert Ellis has called this " must erbation." I call it the "shouldy" approach to life.

9. Labeling - Labeling is an extreme form of all-or-nothing thinking. Instead of saying "I made a mistake," you attach a negative label to yourself: "I'm a loser." You might also label yourself "a fool" or "a failure" or "a jerk." Labeling is quite irrational because you are not the same as what you do. Human beings exist, but "fools," "losers" and "jerks" do not. These labels are just useless abstractions that lead to anger, anxiety, frustration and low self-esteem.

You may also label others. When someone does something that rubs you the wrong way, you may tell yourself: "He's an S.O.B." Then you feel that the problem is with that person's "character" or "essence" instead of with their thinking or behavior. You see them as totally bad. This makes you feel hostile and hopeless about improving things and leaves very little room for constructive communication.

10. Personalization and Blame - Personalization comes when you hold yourself personally responsible for an event that isn't entirely under your control. When a woman received a note that her child was having difficulty in school, she told herself, "This shows what a bad mother I am," instead of trying to pinpoint the cause of the problem so that she could be helpful to her child. When another woman's husband beat her, she told herself, "If only I was better in bed, he wouldn't beat me." Personalization leads to guilt, shame and feelings of inadequacy.

Writing your negative thoughts about yourself is a good start.  Take a piece of paper and write down a negative thought/self-criticism, for example, "I am not good enough" then write the type of distorted thinking next to it. Take some time to think of what a rational response would be instead of the distorted thinking.

The motto on the Staying board is "before you can make anything better, you must stop making it worse". This is very true, because many times we can make things worse through our own behavior and thoughts. When we are our own worst enemy, we essentially make our relationship more difficult. 

I understand how your fears can control or overtake your wants. I learned to stop letting my fears eclipse my wants by doing the opposite action. Opposite action is a way to change/reduce  unwanted emotions does not fit the facts.  Reversing the expression and action component of problem emotions. For example, if you feel shame and your action component of that emotion is avoidance, you would do the opposite action of avoidance. 
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"In order to take control of our lives and accomplish something of lasting value, sooner or later we need to Believe. We simply need to believe in the power that is within us, and use it." -Benjamin Hoff
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« Reply #16 on: August 08, 2015, 09:59:38 PM »

Thank you, yes I remember those exercises... similar to CBT. I will have to start doing the thought logging again. Also opposite action seems interesting i will try that. Yesterday I had intention to give her a whole day to herself, but as she didnt seem in bad mood, i kept rationalizing it was OK to stay with her. Ended up spending whole day together and could feel her being a bit frustrated at end of day since was her only day off. I think she just wanted to lay around and be in her thoughts. i feel if i leave her or go to my own thing, she will start to plan to leave (she sometimes mentions quiting her job and leaving the country) so my thinking is if i am always with her, she wont be able to have time to think about that. Other times she talks about getting me a new bed or some other event that would last longer then when my visa is approved. She only mentions the move out thing when in bad mood. Im tired of being in fear all day,every day. I need to get a handle on this quickly or this short window i have to change behavior (and perhaps her mind) will be blown. I fear if move out I might get even more obsessed which will bring more distress.
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« Reply #17 on: August 09, 2015, 09:37:38 PM »

Was starting to feel i might be able to do this, to feel whole and stop 'making things worse' with my behavior. Last night although wanted to go meet her at her work, i stayed at home and tried to keep busy. i guess reality testing to see. It was hard to not follow that impulse. When got home, she was OK and not in a bad mood. I shouldnt care though, even if in bad mood since I didnt cause it.

Anyway, for some reason at night I have stronger resolve and feel more at ease. I even started imaging being out on my own and why I am putting this person on a pedestal? etc, etc. This morning i woke up (as most mornings) with unease and sense of dread. I dont know why. I planned to leave the house early, before her, but felt a bit insecure since she was not in great mood. i gave her massage hoping to make her feel more relaxed before she had to go to work, but didnt have much effect.

I did face a few tasks yesterday i had been putting off, so that felt good. But today, filled with worry about my future with finding some way to make money and what will happen with her. Tense. Thought be good to write here about it.
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EaglesJuju
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« Reply #18 on: August 10, 2015, 06:53:32 AM »

Was starting to feel i might be able to do this, to feel whole and stop 'making things worse' with my behavior.

What changed? Once you start thinking negative, negative emotions will follow. It is almost as if you become a self-fulfilling prophecy if you are constantly being self-defeating. The self-defeating beliefs become engrained and eventually you start believing that you are unable to do things. 

I did face a few tasks yesterday i had been putting off, so that felt good. But today, filled with worry about my future with finding some way to make money and what will happen with her. Tense. Thought be good to write here about it.

If you are constantly worrying about the future and what could happen, you tend missing out on living life. Life happens in the present time. You cannot change everything at once, it is going to be a process of small steps. What is the first thing that you want to work on in your relationship?
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"In order to take control of our lives and accomplish something of lasting value, sooner or later we need to Believe. We simply need to believe in the power that is within us, and use it." -Benjamin Hoff
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« Reply #19 on: August 10, 2015, 06:58:41 AM »

<<What changed? Once you start thinking negative, negative emotions will follow>>

Hi, actually i wrote i think i CAN ACTUALLY do this, so I was writing about a small victory... not going by her work. Perhaps you thought i wrote I couldn't?

I want to change about relationship: i want to be OK with honoring her needs for space, and not being afraid to do things separately from her for fear of not being able to monitor or (attempt) to control her mood. To basically spend more time apart. Also to not take her moods/decisions personally. That would be a good start.
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EaglesJuju
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« Reply #20 on: August 10, 2015, 07:19:48 AM »

<<What changed? Once you start thinking negative, negative emotions will follow>>

Hi, actually i wrote i think i CAN ACTUALLY do this, so I was writing about a small victory... not going by her work. Perhaps you thought i wrote I couldn't?

I am sorry that I interpreted the context incorrectly. I do think that is a great start. It is a way of you being autonomous and not being dependent on her.  [/quote]
I want to change about relationship: i want to be OK with honoring her needs for space, and not being afraid to do things separately from her for fear of not being able to monitor or (attempt) to control her mood. To basically spend more time apart. Also to not take her moods/decisions personally. That would be a good start.

Do you feel when you do things on your own that you end up feeling calmer at the end of the day?

Many times our moods/emotions can affect other people in a positive way. It like transference, when we feel good it tends to be an influence on another person.

Not taking her moods/behavior personally can be tough. As I mentioned learning about the disorder and why her moods affect you so much is the key to radical acceptance.  I have struggled with this and I know it sounds silly, but I have repeated phrases in my head like, "I cannot control anyone else's behavior or thoughts," when I start to feel affected by my pwBPD's behavior.  Sometimes I will even write it down.
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"In order to take control of our lives and accomplish something of lasting value, sooner or later we need to Believe. We simply need to believe in the power that is within us, and use it." -Benjamin Hoff
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« Reply #21 on: August 12, 2015, 05:07:51 AM »

Hi and thanks. I have added your mantra so to speak to my list. I have to keep reminding I can not control anyone because in my mind i think i can. Thank you. I do feel calmer a bit when do own thing, but a nervousness since dont know what her mood is until i meet her. Overall though, i know doing what i should be doing so i guess less guilty/regretful for sure, but calmer? maybe... .

Few thing I wanted to add that I have noticed already.

HOW I SEE WOMEN: I notice that when i see an attractive woman, there is this mixture of sexual fantasy, objectification, as well as a feeling "if I could have her, be loved by her, physical with her, I would be fine, all would be OK... .etc." Its like i want to energetically plug in to them. I feel like a vampire in a way. There is also a feeling of anger, that I should be able to just have her, but I can't and that makes me frustrated and a flash of anger and entitlement. I hate that I see women as mostly just a resource for me, and my wounded self, in vain attempt to have pseudo-confidence/security. I dont want to look at them this way, but its been 35 years of doing this, I cant imagine not seeing this way. It's really scary to realize this.

Another note is that I have been asking her to if we can be sexual and more and more, i get turned down. I cant say I blame her since my smothering and behavior (almost infantile) is not attractive. But I used to feel at least some control, some way to relax because i could please her that way. That was always the best part of our relating and now even that is being affected. The rejection hurts so much, I take it personally although sometimes it could be true she is tired or stressed or not in the mood. It hurts but i keep asking, but much less now. only after sex does she cuddling with me and i feel some good feeling.

The other part that has me concerned is that even if NC was appropriate and good for me at some point, I could not just do it since we have a business together and joint accounts, etc... .most of which she has more access than I do (even its my orig investment). I know her character well enough that i dont have to worry about her being unscrupulous, but its unsettling to know that if she does ask me to move out, i still have to have contact with her business reasons and probably wouldnt be strong enough to not keep trying to beg her to try again.

Lastly, I dont know whether its good in my case or just more covering up the issue, but ive thought about finding a woman on the side for a friends with benefits arrangement . The upside is ( i thought) it might lessen the power i place on just my (ex) GF and if something happens, then have some connection with a female figure.

On the other hand, i am so paranoid she will find out and THAT will be the cause of her getting rid of me, so i cant relax i think even i try it. Also im still trying to get validation and comfort from a woman. But it might make me more confident? it's probably not a good idea but wanted to get it out there.

She seems fine these days and isnt talking about me moving out. I dont know whether she has changed her mind or just isnt talking about it. I dont want to feel that rush of fear, so I don't want to even know.

From now I will post in my recovery thread but wanted the coaches and others to see this and get some advice if possible.

Thank you so much.
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« Reply #22 on: August 21, 2015, 09:39:35 PM »

Was really in bad emotional state yesterday, i sent the mail to you and tried some breathing exercises, but the rationalizations that i believed and then just went outside our bldg, not to wait by her work. I did see her and was OK, but when got home, she made a phone call to her aunt. I had made dinner and had waited all day for her to come home, I felt it was my time now and i deserved her attention especially since i made dinner. I felt so unappreciated and angry. i was seething. when she did finish and sat down at the table, my energy was still off. I tried to act as if it didnt bother me but she could tell and said my energy was bad and asked if i had a problem with her talking on phone. She started to get in bad mood, but left her alone for few minutes and it passed. I have a history of doing this with other women, all the way back to my mom who said i did this as an infant when she was on the phone for long time and holding me. I dont know how to calm down in that moment, i tried thinking compassionate thoughts that she deserves time to do as she please when come home, she actually didnt ASK me to make dinner,etc... .but feeling was still there. That could have ended much worse, so im lucky she was able to calm down.

I feel like even talking to therapist and reaching out i am worrying the same if not more and my situation is getting worse. I don't know how to not let the negative thoughts affect me, even i try the thought distortions exercise or breathing.

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« Reply #23 on: August 28, 2015, 03:19:57 AM »

 I really dont know how much more stress my body and mind can take. I feel like everyting is falling apart around me. I dont know which to handle, its becoming too much.

- the thing with being afraid of her moods and depending on her to prop up my self and distract me from my mind. Letting her moods dictate mine.

- issue now with visa problem and may not get approved in time. Means maybe even having to leave country for while which is even more terrfying to me than leaving apartment. I know worrying wont help but waiting and being powerless over result is really affecting me, i cant turn off worry about it.

- shoulder, back and leg injuries (prob not healing due to stress) is not getting better so i cant even do simple workout things like puships. pullups... i got so much endorphins and pos energy from workouts. Now moving my arm a little hurts a lot. I dont have insurance here. nor a job.

- i dont know what to do for long term career, even if went back to my country. i started business here but dont know even what it is.

- ive tried to find therapist but between time difference and not having constant wifi i cant get support i need. they just tell me the same things i know already and its expensive.

I feel so lost, so hopeless and scared. im tired of feeling this everyday. Nothing is working, Im waiting for a paradigm shift but its not coming. sick of feeling fear and worry. Help. Please somebody.
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