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Author Topic: what about the emotional needs of the non BPD?  (Read 525 times)
last resort

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« on: August 02, 2015, 08:30:48 AM »

i am only on this site as i love my partner and want to try to be able to have a relationship with him in some way, we have been together for 2 years and its been a very rocky road where i have had to put up with a lot of negative emotional stuff. I have to admit that on reading the posts i have done some things wrong through exasperation - called him a nutter and a weirdo when i didnt know what the situation was and it seemed never ending and too much for me, and i now know that hasnt helped at all with his self esteem and has probably perpetuated the vicious circle of emotional abuse.

But my question here is what about OUR emotional needs? Being in a relationship should be 2 way not just 1 way, i was brought up by a mother with mental health issues and suffered terrible emotional,physical and mental abuse for all of my life, ive had ex partners with serious mental health issues and nearly lost my life to one of them - i just sort of think i deserve a break? I am a very loving loyal and giving person and i feel my present partner knows this and takes advantage of the fact that i will continue to forgive him all the time (when i know that all of my friends think im crazy for putting up with it) - i dont walk away because i think its too easy to just walk away from someone who has mental health issues when it could so easily be us (but maybe different disorder). I have had in the past ptsd due to the assault from an ex and also the abusive upbringing i had and have also had a bought of serious clinical depression, and i think its the insight that i have that stops me from being able to walk away from him and seemingly abandon him... .but what about my needs? am i not entitled to be supported by someone else? is the rest of my life going to be about understanding and coping with his issues? Is there never going to be a time when i can rely on him for emotional support?

I am very understanding and forgiving person, and wouldnt still be with him if i wasnt, but sometimes i think that life is too short to suffer like this all the time - when will it stop? Have i got to be on my guard for the rest of my life watching every word that i say, scared that if i want to go and see a mate overnight its going to unleash one of his meltdowns? Scared that if i receive a text message late at night he is going to accuse me of having an affair?

I am all for supporting and understanding, but i have needs as well - as we all do - and we wouldnt be human if we didnt - but am i never going to feel that i can rely on him, and will he ever be capable of doing it? All seems exhausting, he isnt my child, it would make a difference if he was, this is someone i am choosing to have in my life, and yet i feel like i have no choice.

Does anyone have any hope that they can give me or any examples from their own relationships maybe?

thanks
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« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2015, 08:44:33 AM »

Your story is similar to a lot of people.

When I found this site, I said that same things. What about me? The best advice I was given is to read the lessons and work on myself. Find ways to get my emotional needs met without depending on my partner. Take better care of myself. Do some work on boundaries (setting boundaries to protect myself and get an understanding of what they are).

My emotional needs are my responsibility. My husband isn't responsible for my emotional needs. It would be really nice if he was more emotionally available. That isn't my reality so I have to figure out how to work with what I am given,
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waverider
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« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2015, 08:48:43 AM »

Welcome

You seem to have gotten yourself into a life pattern of being an enabler for people with these kinds of issues. This is common. Unfortunately you can't turn these things around by simply being kind and understanding on its own, as that only enables it further.

Please work your way through the following links:

LESSONS

These will put into perspective what you are up against, what to expect, what you can achieve and what you can't.

Ultimately it will be more about changing yourself than anyone else.

Waverider
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« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2015, 09:51:56 AM »

Hi, last resort.   Your thoughts are very similar to the thoughts I had when I found this site a little over a year ago.

 

Stay with us here.  The advice on this staying board, the lessons, videos, and articles are invaluable to me.  I’ve needed to not just read them, but study them to know exactly what is going on.  The more you know about it, the better you will understand why your husband is the way he is, and the better position you will be in to protect yourself.

True, BPD is what it is, and most of this is about changing ourselves.  A year ago, I was a little taken aback at the thought of that.  Now it makes sense to me.

In terms of emotional support, most everything is still all about him, but I could probably write a song entitled “BPD is not the Boss of Me.” 

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last resort

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« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2015, 11:05:10 AM »

thank you all for your really helpful comments, they really make a difference. i do read about BPD, some excellent books, am open to learning as much as i can and being more able to cope with it - i suppose my comment really was the fact that its all very 'one sided' isnt it though? I'm not an emotional wreck, i seek out therapy for myself and my issues if ever i need it (dont depend on others to provide answers or fill the void) - face issues head on as they come up, no matter how hard they are, and have had some very very serious trauma in my life - but are we saying here that these BPD people will never be any sort of emotional support or help throughout our lives and its all about us accommodating them? not saying the wrong thing? not making matters worse?... if this is the case and there is no light at the end of the tunnel i dont know if i could settle for that as life is so short and i deserve so much more!

A couple - or a relationship - is supposed to be two way, this feels like i am like his unpaid carer or permenant mother? I notice that when he is at his worst is whenever he thinks i need him which really naffs me off - for eg when i came out of hospital last year and was really poorly and he just disappeared out of the house everytime as he knew i needed him to do things, and when my father died he accused me twice in one week of having affairs and was really abusive - who needs that in their lives? I know i love him but surely i need to love myself more and not settle for all of this? I can understand if its your child or parent (my own mother shows BPD signs) but from a partner? In the end he affected my self esteem so i was thinking there was o point in leaving him as no one else would want me now (because i had started to believe all the crap he had projected onto me, that was really about him) - how the hell did that happen? how did that creep up on me without me noticing? i used to teach 'building confidence and self esteem' and yet this was where i ended up? weird.

I feel really angry whilst writing this, and thats good for me as i never allow myself to get in contact with those emotions. i guess im angry at how he has manipulated me, and how he has affected my self esteem, my creativity, and my life - and i know people will comment that its all been my 'choice', but that sounds a little like we should be blaming ourselves when we shouldnt! I know i have put so much effort into this relationship when most women would have walked away, i have loved him and tried to understand him (and still do) - i totally understand about the triggers etc and am guilty as i am sure most of us have been of pressing a few of them unknowingly in the past - but wow when does it come to the point where they are accountable for their own actions and we turn round and say ENOUGH NOW because we deserve so much better?

so sorry for the rant - just needed to come out  
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vortex of confusion
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« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2015, 11:23:38 AM »

i suppose my comment really was the fact that its all very 'one sided' isnt it though? I'm not an emotional wreck, i seek out therapy for myself and my issues if ever i need it (dont depend on others to provide answers or fill the void) - face issues head on as they come up, no matter how hard they are, and have had some very very serious trauma in my life - but are we saying here that these BPD people will never be any sort of emotional support or help throughout our lives and its all about us accommodating them? not saying the wrong thing? not making matters worse?... if this is the case and there is no light at the end of the tunnel i dont know if i could settle for that as life is so short and i deserve so much more!

I don't think that I am saying that they will never provide any emotional support. My husband does provide some emotional support. It isn't what I want or need a lot of the time. I also wouldn't say that it is about accommodating them. For me, it is about knowing my own limits and accommodating him within the confines of what I am able to do. I remember thinking this exact same thing when I came here. I thought all of these people were crazy to suggest that I am responsible for my own emotions.

Excerpt
A couple - or a relationship - is supposed to be two way, this feels like i am like his unpaid carer or permenant mother?

I have felt like I am more of a mother/protector than a wife on numerous occasions. The easiest way to explain it is to say that I have tried to step out of that role and put some of that back on my husband. I don't know how to explain how to get there. It is reading the lessons and trying to implement them. It is figuring out what I want and what I value. It is figuring out what boundaries I want to set. It is me telling my husband things like, "I can't handle this. You need to talk to your counselor or sponsor about this stuff." When he tries to dump his stuff on me, I can bounce the ball back to him. It is a process and it takes time.

Excerpt
In the end he affected my self esteem so i was thinking there was o point in leaving him as no one else would want me now (because i had started to believe all the crap he had projected onto me, that was really about him) - how the hell did that happen? how did that creep up on me without me noticing? i used to teach 'building confidence and self esteem' and yet this was where i ended up? weird.

I still wonder how I got to where I am. In the rest of my life, I consider myself to be a bit of a bad azz. When I was a kid, I rarely got caught up in peer pressure. Heck, I have spent a lot of years advising parents on how to be better parents and not take things so personally. It crept up on me because I was busy living my life and taking care of things. I wasn't really paying attention. It all happened so gradually that I didn't really notice.

Excerpt
I feel really angry whilst writing this, and thats good for me as i never allow myself to get in contact with those emotions. i guess im angry at how he has manipulated me, and how he has affected my self esteem, my creativity, and my life - and i know people will comment that its all been my 'choice', but that sounds a little like we should be blaming ourselves when we shouldnt!

In order for something to be a real choice, you have to know what it is that you are choosing. You can't blame yourself for not knowing something before you learned it. All of the stuff that was done before learning about BPD wasn't really a choice because you didn't really know what it was that you were choosing. Boundaries can help put a stop to the manipulation. You can rebuild your self esteem and creativity with or without him. For me, it isn't really about blame. Yes, I did my fare share of icky stuff. For me, it is about learning and becoming more aware so that I can change things on my side.

Excerpt
so sorry for the rant - just needed to come out  

Don't apologize for the rant! If you are like me and have kept a lot of stuff bottled up in order to be a good partner, stuff will keep coming out. When stuff comes out, I try to find safe places, like this forum, to share and get feedback. Or heck, just get a virtual hug and know that I am not alone in this weird place.

Keep posting and venting and learning!   
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sempervivum
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« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2015, 01:50:23 PM »

It seems each BP functions in his own pattern. I received my husband´s emotional support in many situations (presence during childbirths, total support when my father died and many others). But there were numerous cases where he withdraw his support without any word of explanation. Once I hurt my ankle at work and if not for my colleague who took me hospital, I would have either limped or called a taxi. My knight in shining armour simply said he could not leave work at the moment (he is driving a lot during his job and usually can leave work when there is a family situation). And the list can go on... .

It is simply matter of choice, I chose to stay with him and I accept him for what he is. I don´t say it´s easy, it´s still very difficult and frustrating and makes me angry, but in such situations, when I´m left alone and disappointed, then I put myself in the first place.

My children know already when things are serious, when I´m angry at their father and when I leave everything else and I am simply selfish. I believe nons need time off to fill their batteries. Thought
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last resort

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« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2015, 02:01:16 PM »

thank you so much for taking the time to answer me so thoroughly. i am a strong person, i guess its just really hard at the moment because i want it all to stop to just give me some time to grieve for my recently departed father who was the biggest support in my life, and i miss him so much, especially now. I am wondering why he seemed to 'step up' his paranoia and delusions just at the point that i lost my dad (literally the day after his funeral) when i was so distraught and just needed some emotional support - did it scare him that i was needy i wonder?

I have encouraged him to go away for a few days with his children, and am hoping to just get a bit of clarity on the situation. i look forward to one day also being able to have a few days without him without all the drama and accusations that go with it - i think 'rising above' it all and not taking it personally so much as its something about him - not me - is something i have been trying to do... .

and believe me, i am on here because i do love him, there is something about him that is so lovely at times,he knows there are things he needs to address but only talks about addressing them when he thinks he is losing me and then doesn't bother when things seem better (same old story hey?).

I am reading the lessons, and am learning all the time, and am thinking positive. The hardest bit is that i was single for 12 years before meeting him because of being with such a controlling abusive man, and i am someone that really needs my freedom in order to fuel my creativity so i find this possessiveness hard. i cant sit in the house with him for the rest of my life because thats the only way to keep things on an even keel. I know its a lot about my boundaries and sticking to them.

Some things he does are just so odd though, for instance he wont tell me where he is now with his kids and im sure thats because he wants me to think he is somewhere very near - incase i was thinking about being unfaithful (how ridiculous is that?) but he likes to keep me on edge all the time .That sounds like i am considering it... Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)... the fact is that i have never been unfaithful to anyone, i darent even look in a mans face now or have a conversation with one, where as he seems to encourage women in order to feel better about himself and has women messaging him and texting him telling him theyre interested in him... .he denies there is anything going on. Its as if he accuses me of the things he is doing (ive read that somewhere... .projection yes?)

its exhausting. i will give it my best shot, cant promise anything other than to start looking after myself and stop allowing this guy to get into my head so much. I believe that people are brought to us for a reason, not quite worked out what this reason is yet but am sure there is one somewhere. Maybe its for me to get to the stage where i just say enough is enough and walk away (which i have tried manyt imes before but he just wont let me) - who knows, but for now i'm trying and learning!

thanks so much for the 'virtual hug' it was very much appreciated!

here's one for you!  
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JQ
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« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2015, 02:31:26 PM »

i am only on this site as i love my partner and want to try to be able to have a relationship with him in some way, we have been together for 2 years and its been a very rocky road where i have had to put up with a lot of negative emotional stuff. I have to admit that on reading the posts i have done some things wrong through exasperation - called him a nutter and a weirdo when i didnt know what the situation was and it seemed never ending and too much for me, and i now know that hasnt helped at all with his self esteem and has probably perpetuated the vicious circle of emotional abuse.

But my question here is what about OUR emotional needs? Being in a relationship should be 2 way not just 1 way, i was brought up by a mother with mental health issues and suffered terrible emotional,physical and mental abuse for all of my life, ive had ex partners with serious mental health issues and nearly lost my life to one of them - i just sort of think i deserve a break? I am a very loving loyal and giving person and i feel my present partner knows this and takes advantage of the fact that i will continue to forgive him all the time (when i know that all of my friends think im crazy for putting up with it) - i dont walk away because i think its too easy to just walk away from someone who has mental health issues when it could so easily be us (but maybe different disorder). I have had in the past ptsd due to the assault from an ex and also the abusive upbringing i had and have also had a bought of serious clinical depression, and i think its the insight that i have that stops me from being able to walk away from him and seemingly abandon him... .but what about my needs? am i not entitled to be supported by someone else? is the rest of my life going to be about understanding and coping with his issues? Is there never going to be a time when i can rely on him for emotional support?

I am very understanding and forgiving person, and wouldnt still be with him if i wasnt, but sometimes i think that life is too short to suffer like this all the time - when will it stop? Have i got to be on my guard for the rest of my life watching every word that i say, scared that if i want to go and see a mate overnight its going to unleash one of his meltdowns? Scared that if i receive a text message late at night he is going to accuse me of having an affair?

I am all for supporting and understanding, but i have needs as well - as we all do - and we wouldnt be human if we didnt - but am i never going to feel that i can rely on him, and will he ever be capable of doing it? All seems exhausting, he isnt my child, it would make a difference if he was, this is someone i am choosing to have in my life, and yet i feel like i have no choice.

Does anyone have any hope that they can give me or any examples from their own relationships maybe?

thanks

Last Resort,

It appears that you have the answer you already seek ... .you are knowledgable and experienced in mental illness from growing up in a household with it. You have sought out and received guidance and support from therapist. You have read articles and books in respect to BPD ... .so you know then that someone who has BPD is always about them. You know that they have this learned behavior that neither you, me or other BPD S/O can cure ... .because we didn't cause it ... .and we both know we sure as hell can't control it.

It sounds as if you are quite possibly a codependent ... .a people pleaser ... .a perfectionist ... .the person who wants to save every puppy in the pound. But from your experience, your readings, your counseling ... .as with mine ... .we've both have learned that we have this learned behavior to save every puppy in the pound ... .but we know we can't. We know we had to learn to say no ... .no to the mental abuse ... .no to the constant emotional abuse ... .no to the physical abuse ... .and only we can change that. Ours is a learned behavior for when we were growing up ... .you like me probably sought out your parents approval but for one reason or another it never came ... .but that didn't stop us from continue to try to win their approval ... .to try to do what ever tasking we had at the moment to the very best and quite possibly done to perfection ... .but again ... .that need for approval never came.  It followed us into our adulthood ... .we are magnetically attracted to the very opposite of our behavior ... .we believe we can help our BPD ... .and in reality we can't. We try and try ... .but due to things beyond our control ... .we'll never get the approval we need. There is a book called, "The Human Magnet Syndrome" that explains all of this.

Your BPD is going to constantly drain your batteries ... .it's what they do ... .and you know this. If you stay with this person you already know that you're going to have to recharge your batteries frequently and drain them on him ... .you will forever come second in his world ... .UNLESS he seeks out assistance and guidance from a lifetime of therapy ... .then and only then do therapist suggest that you might be able to have a "semiNormal" relationship ... .but it will never ever be a 50/50 relationship.  You mentioned you felt more like a mother then a spouse / wife ... .that's because a BPD will forever have the behavior of a 3 year old ... .it's a defense they learned LOONG before you met them due to events in their childhood.  You have children ... .remember what it was like when they were 3 ... .they're logic ... .they're reasoning ... .seemed to never make sense ... .that's because they are 3 and don't know what life is about ... .what relationships are about. And for someone who is stuck behaviorally at 3 ... .unless they WANT to get help for their behavior ... .it will never change.

My ex BPD gf knows that she has this problem ... .has been seeing therapist off and on for decades and still has major complications with BPD ... .just this last week she texted me that she was broke. This was in response to my text to her comment ... .I told her I wasn't mad, angry or upset anymore ... .I was just tired ... .tired of all the lies, tired of all the arguments over nothing ... .tired of all the effort I put into this relationship and received nothing in return ... .tired of getting my hopes up and being disappointed again ... .I'm tired of you "proving" me wrong all the time ... .I'm tired ... .

I've decided that my self worth is more then what has been in the past ... .that I deserve to be in a loving and mutually respectful relationship ... .that I need to have a full partner in life that will be a true partner and not one that will continue to suck the life from me at every chance they get ... .I don't believe its done on purpose ... .but goes back to the learned behavior ... .there is evidence to show that they don't even know or remember that they do what they do ... .my ex is surprised at all the things she tells me and I repeat them back to her ... .she wonders how I do it ... .

YOU have to make them acceptable for their own actions ... .there are reading suggestions here and else where on BPD ... ."how to control your BPD".  Stop walking on eggshells ... .like a 3 year old ... .your BPD has to learn to accept the consequences of their actions ... .both good and bad. YOU have to learn to enforce this if you plan on staying with this person. Like your kids when they learned to drive ... .you teach them proper lane changes, obey speed limits, use turn signals ... .then when they go out and get a speeding ticket, you enforce the rules and have them face the consequences ... .traffic court ... .fines ... .whatever it might be ... .it's the same principle for your BPD. MY BPD exgf said something that was mean, and hurtful ... .there was a long quite pause on both our parts ... .my next words ... .I have to go ... .I need to hang up the phone ... .you have hurt my feelings by the things you recklessly said ... .I don't want to talk to you right now and hung up the phone ... .a few minutes later ... .she realized what she did ... ." I would like to think she did' and texted me ... ."Im sorry for hurting you by the things I said ... .it was wrong and I apologize". Now would she have done that if she hadn't been in therapy for years ... .probably not ... .because my first BPD ex gf has never gone to therapy and when she says something hurtful and wrong ... .and is called out for it ... .she blows it off and tells me to not be butt hurt ... .she doesn't accept her behavior responsibilities. The same goes for your situation ... .

Just some thoughts ... .you're much father ahead of others in your education and experience with your BPD ... .but like me you come in here to rant ... .vent ... .get guidance, suggestions ... .and guidance ... .it's what we're here for ... .to support each other ... .YOU deserve to be happy !  YOU deserve to live a life free of emotional and mental abuse! You deserve to be free from a life of physical abuse!  

I wish you strength and patience ... .

Jq
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Notwendy
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« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2015, 04:24:11 PM »

My mother has PBD and during times where I was distressed, she could not be of any emotional support for me. I am sorry for your loss. My father died a while back and it was devastating to me. I think my H ( w traits )did the best he could, but he isn't emotionally available so he was not much emotional support. I can relate to the kicked when down feelings, but it isn't about you. I think times of distress are disregulating for them.

I agree with JQ. In fact, my father's death was a turning point for me. Yes, he was everything to me growing up, but I had to also see him as my role model for co-dependency- not in anger or in blame. Heaven knows he did the best he could to raise us, and he did a great job, but it was not an easy road for him. Losing him led me to getting into co-dependency groups possibly because I was so grieved I had no energy left to put into my relationship and that also led to changes.

I can tell you that it gets better, but losing my father was really hard and I miss him. It does get better over time, but I was a mess when I was grieving. Get help and support for yourself through a counselor and friends who can be there for you.

As to "cheating" well you know that even in the face of nothing, you can't change imagination. I know what I am doing, and God knows. I can't control being accused although I can be considerate of my H's feelings and not behave inappropriately. Isolating myself to make him feel better doesn't work, and it was being co-dependent.

I agree with the magnet phenomon. I saw exactly where it all fit together for me. However, rather than leave my r/s I chose to work with it. However, I was not in the place of someone who is dating. We have children. I had to consider the impact of my choices on them. My H is mild, with traits. He is a good father. His issues are only in his most intimate relationship: and that is me. I had to at least consider my role in this first.

However, I also recognize that the way the "magnet" works is that if I didn't do the work, I may easily have the same attraction field with someone else. I have a large incentive to do the work ,for me, my marriage, and my kids. However, each of us here have to make these decisions with the indivisual circumstances we are in. BPD, and codependency, exists on a spectrum.

Yes, we do vent here, but we need to be mindful that we are not victims and can work on ourselves. Still sometimes we all need to vent!

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« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2015, 06:58:42 PM »

You need to redefine fairness, it is not straight down the middle as per you might expect in a regular relationship. It is more of a crooked line. To get over some of the frustration and bitterness, you will eventually have to move past what could be called "survival" tools and move on towards "thriving". This will entail taking more than your share in some areas. Your pound of flesh if you like. You gold nugget in the relationship. This will make bending and "pampering" in other areas feel like a fair trade off.

It is not easy to get to that state, as you will have to fight for it. But to have a happy relationship you have to know what is good about this particular relationship for you. You are not a victim or a martyr.

If you get hung up on trying to draw that fairness line straight down the middle in all areas you are condemning yourself to magical thinking. It's not going to happen.

The first step is to lesson your dependency on your partners reactions and approval.

It is a slow process. At the moment it feels like a giant ball off knotted string, you don't know where to start. It has to be approached slowly and methodically one bit a time. If you start tugging hard at it everywhere at once it just knots tighter.

Hang in there talking it though with others who have found themselves in the same pickle is a great start.

You may or may not save the relationship, but there is no reason you can't save your own sanity so that you don't have to live like a victim of other peoples dramas.
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last resort

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« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2015, 03:56:32 AM »

thank you all, for your help and advice - i take it all on board and am learning all the time. I do agree that losing my dad is about to bring big changes, i dont think there was a co dependancy thing there (although of course i will look into that to check) i just miss him because i loved him, and he was the parent without the controlling mental health issues - he was (and still is ) just... .my dad! 

But i think that sometimes in life things happen that enable you to take stock and to re think. I think i do need to look at this desire i have to 'make everything better' with everyone, and make sure that is coming from a healthy place as when i can't make it better i want to be able to lose the feeling that its maybe my fault - when it isnt. I am starting to think for the first time in my life (although late in the day) about my own feelings, my own future, and that life is a gift - we can't take it for granted - i want to have some happiness in my life and i think that comes from allowing others to be responsible for their own!

I am certainly in the midst of lots of 'thinking' and am glad i have the resource of therapy at present, and can tap into that as well as the wonderful support from this forum.

I felt so alone before finding this here, felt like no one would understand so didnt tell anyone about what was happening. Reading what others are saying has really helped me, just to see it in black and white. I don't judge mental health issues as i've been there in the past myself, but i'm starting to realise that i really need to look after myself now, and my family, and that i can still have love for this man without allowing him to destroy my life at the same time!

He is away at the moment with his children ( that took a lot of encouraging) and i am trying to use the time to think about our relationship, limits and boundaries that i need to set, and how i can start to get some enjoyment out of my life again whilst still having him in it (or not, if thats the case)

Have nearly finished reading 'stop walking on eggshells' - great book, and will keep reading, learning and empowering myself... .many many thanks again 
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« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2015, 05:20:39 AM »

Just one more thought pwBPD can understand and deal with hard firm decisive behavior even if they initially blow up over it. This is due to their own black and white way of thinking. What they can't cope with is wishy washy inconsistancy. It just feeds the chaos they already live in.

Focusing on what is right for you rather than appeasement can create the structure necessary for more decisive decision making, as appeasement is often reactive behavior
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« Reply #13 on: August 03, 2015, 08:05:12 AM »

Hi last resort,

Does anyone have any hope that they can give me or any examples from their own relationships maybe?

thanks

I could give lots of examples, with many of them boiling down to this:

Just one more thought pwBPD can understand and deal with hard firm decisive behavior even if they initially blow up over it. This is due to their own black and white way of thinking. What they can't cope with is wishy washy inconsistancy. It just feeds the chaos they already live in.

Focusing on what is right for you rather than appeasement can create the structure necessary for more decisive decision making, as appeasement is often reactive behavior

This is so true and when I take a look back to incidences that gave me pause and upset, in what ways might I have not been true to myself with respect for him and the relationship?

I am choosing to stay, so therapy or no therapy, BPD or not, there are certain behaviors, I am in a way, signing up for; this would be true of any relationship; Acceptance.  It is up to me to know my limitations, let him know what those are (boundaries), consistently and respectfully (Support, Empathy Truth, etc... ), so as not to blindside him with something that seemed fine to do before, but isn't any longer = blaming him for my own codependency (past) and change of heart (forward motion).

I can't really expect him to meet some of my emotional needs when I'm not even clear on what they are, respectfully.


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« Reply #14 on: August 03, 2015, 12:16:19 PM »

waverider, this gave me a chunk to chew on, thanks

Excerpt
Just one more thought pwBPD can understand and deal with hard firm decisive behavior even if they initially blow up over it. This is due to their own black and white way of thinking. What they can't cope with is wishy washy inconsistancy. It just feeds the chaos they already live in.

and blow up they do... .I didn't deal with a situation the way my wife thought I should deal with it but I dealt with it my way with some input from my wife. It's because she wasn't involved with the face to face meeting with my daughter I needed to have ( this would be my wife's step daughter who she has never lived in the same house together). I was told how disappointing I was and that I acted like I didn't even care about the situation, which is so far from the truth. I said well I guess you will just have to be disappointed and I left and met with my daughter. MY wife told me she didn't want to hear any of the outcome of the discussion between my daughter and me. It's been 4 days and I have not told her anything. My wife acted so concerned for my daughter but when she couldn't be front and center giving my daughter the advice or controlling the way I did it she detached herself from the whole thing entirely. (real concern?)

Maybe my wife will come around eventually. 
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« Reply #15 on: August 03, 2015, 12:19:05 PM »

I can't really expect him to meet some of my emotional needs when I'm not even clear on what they are, respectfully.

THIS! This bears repeating.

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« Reply #16 on: August 03, 2015, 07:17:49 PM »

You need to redefine fairness, it is not straight down the middle as per you might expect in a regular relationship. It is more of a crooked line. To get over some of the frustration and bitterness, you will eventually have to move past what could be called "survival" tools and move on towards "thriving". This will entail taking more than your share in some areas. Your pound of flesh if you like. You gold nugget in the relationship. This will make bending and "pampering" in other areas feel like a fair trade off.

It is not easy to get to that state, as you will have to fight for it. But to have a happy relationship you have to know what is good about this particular relationship for you. You are not a victim or a martyr.

If you get hung up on trying to draw that fairness line straight down the middle in all areas you are condemning yourself to magical thinking. It's not going to happen.

The first step is to lesson your dependency on your partners reactions and approval.

Lots of wisdom as always from waverider.

I'm very sorry, last resort,    about the loss of your father and I can totally empathize with how appalling it was to be uprooted from your grief and having to deal with spurious allegations of your fidelity.

My ex-husband called me at my mother's house the day after my father died and demanded that I fly several hundred miles home immediately or that he would commit suicide. Have these pwBPD no decency?

Regarding what waverider wrote, I am finding that I can set aside my notion of 50/50 fairness regarding household tasks by fully enjoying what my current husband's recently improved financial status brings. I'm now paying someone to do some gardening for me and buying clothes I never had been able to afford previously. It still irks me when he leaves the kitchen a mess after his midnight snack, but there are benefits to this relationship and I'm not as frustrated as I previously was when I expected him to act like a responsible adult.

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« Reply #17 on: August 04, 2015, 06:33:04 AM »

Just one more thought pwBPD can understand and deal with hard firm decisive behavior even if they initially blow up over it. This is due to their own black and white way of thinking. What they can't cope with is wishy washy inconsistancy. It just feeds the chaos they already live in.

This has been quoted already, but I think one more time will not harm, because it is so true.

What is at the same time funny and tragic is that BP can really behave like a little child. When I´m brought to my ends and I seek my own ways of emotional compensation because he is not able to give any at the moment, then I am usually angry. He notices my anger and probably thinks like "mommy is angry, I´d better shut up and not get her in the way."

Whereas I don´t want to be his angry mommy, I am his angry wife, so would like to be adressed as one. Then I remember he doesn´t know how to... .

It really is difficult to live in such spirals, knowing he is in some situations highly capable and intelligent, and in others totally helpless.

Such moments and days when you start thinking you can rely on your BP get suddenly shaken by their traits. It´s a constant alert.
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« Reply #18 on: August 04, 2015, 02:27:04 PM »

Once when the kids were little, I was fixing juice in sippy cups for them. My H was sitting at the table too, with the hungry kids,  not even thinking that he might give me a hand.

I put the food on their plates, poured the juice in the little cups and placed the lids on them, and served it to my H. The funny thing was, I was so tired, I was just on automatic. All I was thinking was "the kids are hungry". 

It wasn't even conscious at this point, as I didn't think of him as another helper in the home at this time. But the look on his face when I handed him juice in a sippy cup was hilarious.
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« Reply #19 on: September 29, 2015, 04:00:23 PM »

i have been with my partner for over two years now, and have ended the relationship more times than i care to remember. Each time i summons up the strength, get my head around the fact that he is killing me with stress, negativity and control - isolating me from my friends and family, trawling through my texts, emails and facebook whenever he gets the chance - is so delusional and paranoid that he 'creates' situations and accuses me of things i havent even thought about never mind done!

and so i attempt to end the relationship. its never a pretty thing when i do as he gets very nasty, and the words that come from his mouth, the insults, the way he belittles me and demeans me is dreadful and makes me feel vulnerable. He is a big guy, very muscly and very strong. He has never hurt me physically but just recently he has started to punch doors when in an argument, and the other day as i was about to cross the road he came up behind me and put his elbow out and hit me really hard with it in the back so that i fell into the road and just missed an oncoming car! I am scared to finish it to be honest. I dont live with him now as i told him to leave last year but it doesn't make a difference as when i finish it with him he harasses me by text and phone, stands with his finger on the doorbell (and i have a lodger - who i need to keep - so end up opening the door) - he wont leave the house if he gets in, and when its been too much for me in the past and i feel scared i have left the house and he texts me to tell me he has let the dogs out on the street to get me to come back!

Last week i agreed to go away with him for a few days, i really didnt want to go as i was woried about being aay from home if he had one of his 'episodes' and so i agreed to go somewhere that was only 2 hours away in case i needed to come back on the train etc. He was quite well behaved at the start (as he had all of my attention and usually is then) - we went to a victorian baths which was a real treat, and you go into rooms that range from 35c to 70c and lay down. i have a bad back so i have to bend my knees, my knees were no more than 3 inches apart, my eyes were closed and i was relaxing until i got a slap on my leg telling me to 'shut my legs!', he was very aggressive about it! Two days later i went into a charity shop with him and i saw a box of books on the floor and bent over to look through them, at the same time i was aware that someone else had arrived next to me and was looking at books on the table above me - again i got a slap on the back and he said very aggressively ' its NOT a good look is it?' i had no idea what he was talking about ( i thought maybe he could see my underwear through my trousers etc - but that wasnt it) i was told to 'bend the other way!' - not knowing what he meant i just continued to look at the books but felt totally embarrassed!... .when we left the shop he showed me photos he had taken of me in the shop, looking at the books, and told me that anyone that was in the shop would have thought my head was in the guys crotch! wow - i wasnt anywhere near him... .all this is REALLY scaring me now, i feel there is a gradual worsening in his behaviour, and it is becoming more and more irrational.

When i brought the subject up when we got home i told him (in a very calm voice) that it was very controlling and i wasnt going to put up with it anymore. Without there even being an argument of sorts he suddenly said in a VERY aggressive manner... .

' I can stand up for myself... .and i can DESTROY people... .and i WILL DESTROY YOU if you continue to play games!' - what does he mean? I really dont know what to do as he tries to control everything about me, my female friend sent me a birthday text that said how i was a special person and she loved me lots - and he said that was obvioulsy 'weird' and made out we were having some sort of affair! He accuses me of affairs all the time and i dont have any contact with any male friends anymore. He tells me i am a PERVE because i went to life drawing classes and i had to stop. He doesnt like me having coffee with friends as he says i am obviously slagging him off. I just cant breathe, and yet i am scared of ending it as i dont know how he will react - and then when he has calmed down he manipulates me getting me to feel sorry for him, telling me he has nothing to live for and he will get help (and never does) - i do NOT believe he will ever change and in fact he is getting worse.

I really need some help and advice about how i can get him out of my head and my life and still be safe. I do have to say that before meeting him i was single for 12 years as my sons partner was very similar and when i told him it was over he attacked me with a knife and attempted to kill me - hence my fear.

Please can anyone help?

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« Reply #20 on: September 29, 2015, 04:24:02 PM »

Is this a "too good to leave, too bad to stay" relationship?
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« Reply #21 on: October 01, 2015, 12:32:43 PM »

Hello Last Resort,

I've been reading this entire post over again and it reminds me of to many situations from my first exBPDgf. She was overheard by a law enforcement friend of mine, "if I can't have him no one will" ... .words by themselves are just words. But she had showed me how to break into my house at the time with nothing more then a credit card or drivers license. I came home with a date more then once only to have my front door swinging. Add to that she had access to a weapon and words become more then just words ... .it becomes a valid concern and a threat. I ended up with getting my own protection and the permit to carry it. That was 20 years ago ... .she continues to "stalk" me to this day.

Like my first situation, it was a relationship that lasted less then two years ... .and I was very much like you. The amount of energy I put into the relationship, the accusations of chasing other women, all of it was the same. I like you finally had enough ... .I wanted a life without the stress ... .without the worry ... .without the day to day accusations. I actually told myself I deserved to in a mutually respectful loving caring relationship. I looked into the mirror and told myself that I knew deep in my heart ... .deep in my soul that type of relationship was NEVER going to happen with her. She was going to continue to run around with other men and make rather lame excuses of why she was coming home late or would disappear for a couple of days. I told myself that I deserved someone who would not do the things she was doing to me. As much as i cared for her, as much as I thought I loved her, I had to realize that I love myself more ... .that I care for myself more ... .that I'm worth more then that.

I took a deep breath and told myself I had to move on, that I had to go full NC and move on with my life without her. You hear about it all the time of going full NC, I'm here to tell you from my own experience that it is the only way to move one with someone who has BPD. Block the calls, the text, lock down all social media to only your friends ... .and if needed just disestablish those social media accounts. I'm to that point myself as I've not posted in almost 3 years. What intended to be a good way to remain in contact with your friends has become a site to read about drama, political views and depressing things day after day. It has destroyed actual human interaction and ACTUAL conversation via phone or face to face. It has done IMHO just the opposite of what it was designed to do.

I digress ... .how to get them out of your head.  SO you're going full NC, no social media, blocking calls in addition you need to tell family & friends to not contribute any information to him when he ask. Be frank & honest with them & let them know that you need to not have any contact or have information about  you get to him & for them not to volunteer it. YOU have to be strong & take a deep each & every morning knowing that a better life awaits you. A better person who will be that person you want, need in your life is out there. There is almost 8 BILLION people in the world ... .he's NOT the only one & that' s how I got "over" my 1st BPDgf. I will always care for her & wish your a happy life, but I have to love myself first. They didn't ask for this condition, but I knew that she would never get better & would never seek out counseling or help. YOU are NOT responsible for them ... .YOU are responsible for yourself & your sons. YOU have to realize that your sons see how he treats you & this is the example they are seeing how to be in a relationship with a woman. YOU are in a way saying it's ok to treat women like this ... .maybe that will be the spark, the catalyst to move on and move forward ... .your sons are depending on you to teach them, to show them how a loving, caring, MUTUALLY RESPECTFUL relationship is suppose to be like ... .YOUR sons are depending on you Last Resort.

I'm not going to lie to you & say it's going to be easy, it's not. You're going to take a step backwards every once in awhile, WE all do. But you have us here when you have moments of weakness to help, listen to you. Take a deep breath, & pick yourself up, lean forward & take the next step. There is a saying in a Batman movie, Batman's father says to him as a child. "Why do we fall Bruce? ... .So we learn to pick ourselves back up again". And you will ... .you are stronger then you give yourself credit for. YOU can do this. You have to do this for the sake of your sons ... .but more importantly you have to do it for the sake of yourself.  Take a deep breath ... .slowly let it out ... .look deep in your heart ... .look deep in your soul ... .you know the answer ... .you know the way forward that YOU need to choose ... .we can not do it for you. We can be here for your support no matter what direction you choose ... .

Your last sentence says you want him out of your life, read the legal things here & seek out legal counsel from local sources such as the police for a no contact order, if needed call 911 it's why you pay taxes ... .they are there to keep you & your sons safe. Seek out sage advice & counsel via a therapist to help get him out of your head. Then maybe you can learn about yourself as I have to learn why it seems that you continue to have relationships like this.
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« Reply #22 on: October 01, 2015, 12:43:31 PM »

Part II,

Last Resort,

I truly wish you the strength that you'll need to push through the barriers of yourself, him and society ... .I truly with all my heart wish you peace for your heart & soul ... .you both need & deserve ... .

Come back and let you know how you are doing ... .the progress you are making ... .come back to vent ... .and express your feelings, thoughts ... .

Come back for as many cyber hugs as you need ... . 

Jq
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« Reply #23 on: October 01, 2015, 04:33:08 PM »

I really need some help and advice about how i can get him out of my head and my life and still be safe. I do have to say that before meeting him i was single for 12 years as my sons partner was very similar and when i told him it was over he attacked me with a knife and attempted to kill me - hence my fear.

Please can anyone help?

The problem is you don't have experience of a non dysfunctional relationship to contrast it with. "Normal" is just a theory, and it is hard to make the hard choices in life in the pursuit of what is essentially just a theory that hasn't been experienced.

Do you ask yourself what happens if I made the hard choice with all the potential traumatic consequences only to realize the next one will just be the same, is it me?

This is why we work so hard on working on ourselves first and foremost , so that we can better determine our own needs, values and direction. We need to repair this before we have the strength and commitment to move forward whichever direction we go in.

pwBPD due to their black and white thinking can cope with the middle ground, you are either fully in or fully out. It is near on possible to have a negotiated compromise, and have them adhere to it. They can be jealous and suspicious of anything that may seem like you have one foot out the door. They often want you inside the door, with the door bolted shut.

Fear of extreme consequences is real, and in effect that is good enough reason right there to not be in it. The longer you stay in the "undecided" phase the more they build up thoughts of what they can threaten to keep you there. Hence the quicker you find a safe environmnt once have made you mind up the bettter.

This is not telling you to leave, that is your choice, simply a heads up that being stuck in the middle is dangerous to your mental and physical welfare. In fact having an escape plan clearly fixed in your mind can reduce stress and make it easier to cope if you choose to stay, as you feel less trapped.
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