Says we need to be separate but roommates because I am not happy

[OffRoad]

I've run into a bit of a dilemma. My uBPDh seems to think I am unhappy. Yes, I have my unhappy days, but no one is permanently happy (or if they are, I'd think they had a problem, as people die and things go wrong in life)

As a matter of fact, he is so sure I am unhappy, he has gone out of his way to accuse me of things I haven't done, pick fights and basically try as hard as he can to MAKE me unhappy. He doesn't understand why I just ignore his attempts to bait me. He keeps upping the ante, trying to get me to bite. I can only assume he is unhappy and is trying to project his feelings onto me. If he could only get me to bite, he could explode and feel better, but my validating him seems to be driving him crazy since he cannot come up with any reason to rage at me. This hasn't stopped him in the past, but either I have gotten better at validating or something else is at play.

So hew tells me we need to separate, but be roommates. I can't leave the house (I can't afford to go) and he won't leave.

How do I deal with this? There are only so many hours of the day I can be away from the house or buried in another room.

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[Ceruleanblue]

Well, I'm probably the last person who should offer advice, but I'd call his bluff. It sounds like what you are doing is working to at least abate huge conflicts, and if his dysregulating or projecting how he feels onto you(saying you are unhappy) is his to deal with. Oh, and yours because you live with him.

I'd seriously call his bluff, and act like it doesn't bother me. If I had the type of spouse I could validate, and have a discussion about "why he wants that", then I would, but you must feel you can't? I know I certainly can't with mine. At this point, any talks BPDh wants to have, the minute I feel it heading south, I'm going to request we shelve it, and address it in MC.

What do you think you'll end up doing? What does your gut tell you to do? What do you think will be the least triggering to him?

[an0ught]

Hi OffRoad,

he somehow got a point with you not being happy and it is not surprising he is concerned. He is likely also not happy. He also got a point that often some degree of separation can be helpful to stabilize the situation. As a thought experiment:

If you could trade



lots of unhappy time together and get for it

some happy time together and some happy time not together

would you do it?

How could you accomplish it with the resources you have? What rules would need to be in place?

[OffRoad]

I thought we were getting some happy time together and some happy time not together.

This started a while ago, about 5 months. He moved into another room. He recently started being more considerate and then suddenly I just got: We are separated, but roommates. And it's not fixable. And I will leave when it's the right time for the children.

Here is what I have tried:

Me: What is happening that makes you feel like I am unhappy?

Him: You are just unhappy all the time.

Me: What am I doing that makes me look unhappy?

Him: You just are.

At that point I am at a loss, so I tried:

Me: Do you like to be just roommates?

Him: No, you're just unhappy, so we have to be roommates.

Me: It seems like you think I'm unhappy, is that right?

Him: Yes.

Me: I don't feel unhappy. What would it take to show you I am happy?

Him: How can you look happy if you aren't. There is nothing you can do.

Once again, I am at a loss so I try:

Me: I could move out for a little while if you need space.

Him: No, I need us to be just roommates.

Me: I'm not comfortable with that. I don't think I could live the rest of my life as just roommates. That would make me unhappy.

Him: See, you're unhappy.

Meanwhile, he is getting more and more agitated.

That's when I came here and wrote. I'm wondering if I'm not spending enough time with him? Or if he somehow has gotten the impression that I want to be roommates? But that would be mind reading, and that never works. I've already tried being "roommates" for several months. It's not working for me, so at this point, I probably AM unhappy, but I didn't start out that way. Why would he need to make me unhappy, either in reality or in his mind?

[ptilda]

Congratulations, you're married to my uBPDh's emotional twin! Except mine was more extreme and violent. Be thankful for that.

I agree. Call him on it. Say: "I can understand how you feel I am unhappy because I do have both good and bad days, but our relationship is a source of happiness for me even if other things might put me in a bad mood. However, you might be right about the roommate thing and if you think we need to do that, I'm willing to give it a go. Let's go ahead and draw up an agreement about how we will split everything and what the parameters of our roommate relationship should be." Pull out a pen and tablet and start writing things like household chores, labeling food, etc! Haha

It might work. Granted, some modification might be in order.

[an0ught]

Hi OffRoad,

sound like roomates became a bit a toxic word for both of you. From what you wrote he seems also a bit concerned and may be somewhat flexible and open for change. You certainly seem to be in need of a change  .

I would not give too much about his long term intention. Long term means there is lots of time he still can change them over and over. Also I would avoid labeling things like roommate - labels are shortcuts, tend to be b&w and often allow everyone to imaging something different. You are individuals, your situation is unique and so you can go off finding your solution.

Cooperative negotiations are often best done focusing not on closing a single issue after another. If one would do that one creates a string of win-loose situations. What works is having bundles, keeping them open, trading off items in the bundles and only closing towards the end.

It you don't want to go the negotiation road - a lot depends on the type he is - then you could also simply try to change the things that matter most to you one at a time. Push the envelope a little here and keep him happy by giving him a little there. Your behavior after all is a lot more powerful than your words.

In any case you need more detailed objectives what you want (you have a clear understanding what you don't want but that is not the same). So what does not work in your current living situation? What is important to you. What concrete thing would need to change? Where do you sense could a compromise lay? What can you give him for the time being that allows him to save face?

[OffRoad]

In any case you need more detailed objectives what you want (you have a clear understanding what you don't want but that is not the same). So what does not work in your current living situation? What is important to you. What concrete thing would need to change? Where do you sense could a compromise lay? What can you give him for the time being that allows him to save face?

I'm am very much at a loss. A few days back, he reiterates that we are separated. We are just roommates. And it can't be fixed. And he will leave when the time is right for the children.

I got the whole we need to co parent the kids (there's only one left and he's 16), this marriage had been a train wreck for YEARS!, that I was never happy. I told him he's not me. I know if I'm happy or not.

I validated. I told him my perception was different than his. He gave me the "I did the best that I could." I gave him back I did the best that I could, too, but that doesn't mean I can't do better. (Stricken face-I one upped him again in his mind). And then I lost it. I said that what he is proposing is what is best for him, not necessarily best for the family. I told him every day I get up and have to look at the man who said he loved me, but he's gone. There just some guy with his face staring blankly at me. He goes and does "fun" things with the kids, when if he had ever done those things with me, he wouldn't have had to feel so bad about himself that he is projecting all his garbage onto me.

He said he always just wanted to come home and be himself. I said for the past 3 + years, you just wanted to come home and check out. You didn't want to talk to anyone, do yard work, do house repairs, pay bills, you didn't want to help with school until this past year, do anything that people do to maintain a life, you just wanted to go play video games where you could check out and not have to deal with real life. You used me to do all the real life hard stuff.

He said that he was never good enough for me and I said "I have always believed in you. I have been behind you and supported you all this time. If you don't feel like you are good enough for yourself, I will not take the blame for that." I wrapped it up with "This is your choice, not mine. You need to tell everyone that you are the one who is leaving. This is not mutual. It's all on you. One day, you are going to wake up and realize you threw away the best thing that ever happened to you." He said "I might."

Then I looked him straight in the eye and said "Goodbye, H."

I was then gone for most of the weekend. I was just done.

He came to me the other morning, upset. Said *I* said I wanted to be roommates. That, of course never happened. I asked him what made him think that I wanted to be roommates? He said he heard me saying something about roommates. ? I told him that is not what I want. He said he couldn't understand why, when he said he wanted to be separate but roommates, I didn't jump up and down and yell YAY! He was sure I hated him. That he was worthless in my eyes. We have started talking a little more, but really nothing has changed. He's still just  my roommate.

I want hugs and kisses. Going out to dinner and hikes. Geocaching and movies. Everything that we used to do as a couple is gone. He's just some guy sitting in the spare room playing video games. He just stopped being nice at all, started picking fights constantly, then blaming me for them. He made up things to fight about. When I stopped biting at the bait, he just started to ignore me altogether, until we weren't even talking to each other. I can only assume he needed distance, but isn't 6 months worth of distance enough? He never used to be this bad. There were the standard spells, but not for months, maybe a day or two. We've been together for 22 years. I'm about ready to throw in the towel, as I have no idea what to do. Asking for anything guarantees I will not get it right now. He doesn't want me to leave (obviously), but doesn't want me as a wife, either.

ETA: I have no idea how to allow him to "save face". I don't even know what kind of face he's trying to save. This is so very unlike ANYTHING he's ever done before.

[vortex of confusion]

A lot of the things that you describe about your husband and him checking out remind me of my husband.

We did the separate bedrooms/separated thing for a while.

When I decided that I was done with the separate rooms, I moved us back into the same room. I didn't ask him for input because I got tired of getting responses like what you describe. I just did it. I think I did it while he was at work or something. How do you think he might respond to something like that? Is there an action that you can do without talking to him about it that will send a loud and clear message that you are NOT okay with this?

I have found that talking to my husband is completely pointless at times.

I also want to reiterate what anOught said about having a clear understanding of what you DO want. That isn't easy to figure out. I am like you in that I can tell you what I don't want. And, I don't know how to communicate what I do want. I am still working on that.

I am also going to challenge you to really think about your happiness levels. For the longest time, I was like you. I would have sworn on a stack of Bibles that I was happy. Then one day I woke up and took stock of my life and realized that I wasn't happy. Yes, I had a lot of moments of joy and I had a lot of happiness in my life. Overall, I was very dissatisfied with the way things were. I missed the husband that I married. I missed the cute and goofy guy that made me laugh all of the time. I missed the guy that used to rub my feet for no reason while we watched TV. I missed the guy that insisted on brushing my hair for me whenever he got the chance. I wanted all of that back. Somewhere along the way, he disappeared and was replaced by some guy that I didn't recognize.

How in the world could I possibly be happy when I felt like I was married to a stranger? For me, it really helped me to stop fighting my negative feelings. I was dissatisfied/unhappy. I was angry. I had a lot of negative feelings about my husband's level of disconnect with me. I felt completely rejected by my husband. Until I was able to admit that to myself and find a way to verbalize it, I felt really stuck. Things are improving slowly and I still feel really disconnected from my husband. I am doing a better job of telling him what I want but cannot figure out how to make my feelings for him come back.

[ptilda]

All of this hits so deep to home with me. H is now claiming that he loves me and he's sad and he will always be here for me and he wants to help me, but we can't be together (no explanation of why, just a vague "everything that's happened" and periodic references to hurt and shame).

My problem I'm dealing with now is that he has surfaced this week, come to the house, is communicating with me regularly, helping me and allowing me to help him, etc. I'm wanting to fast-forward, but I understand that this stage can take a long time. I'm finding myself torn as I am optimistic with him and yet continuing to collect evidence to bring to court to establish his mental instability to ask them to require counseling/therapy for us before ruling on the divorce.

Who knows what will happen? But I'm finding that working on the projects together (my graduate research, his job hunt) is helping to focus me more on the task rather than on my dreams (broken or otherwise). It keeps me in the moment. And I think this is where he needs to be too.

[OffRoad]

Thanks, Vortex. He moved into the spare room. I have no idea how to move him out of that room, as all his clothing and such are still in the Master Bedroom where I sleep, he just sleeps in the spare room, which also holds his computer.

I am also going to challenge you to really think about your happiness levels. For the longest time, I was like you. I would have sworn on a stack of Bibles that I was happy. Then one day I woke up and took stock of my life and realized that I wasn't happy. Yes, I had a lot of moments of joy and I had a lot of happiness in my life. Overall, I was very dissatisfied with the way things were. I missed the husband that I married. I missed the cute and goofy guy that made me laugh all of the time. I missed the guy that used to rub my feet for no reason while we watched TV. I missed the guy that insisted on brushing my hair for me whenever he got the chance. I wanted all of that back. Somewhere along the way, he disappeared and was replaced by some guy that I didn't recognize.

See, this is just exactly what happened three years ago. First he just started ignoring me and playing video games instead. Then he let all the bills and hard stuff pile up  and even when he said he'd do something, didn't. The he started picking fights about things that didn't even exist or happen. So if he wants to say I was unhappy for the past three years, OK. But I tried to address that with him back then when I told him I felt like I was in the relationship alone. He told me he was engaged. 2.5 years later, he admits to me he had checked out emotionally at the time I was asking him about it.

So, yes, once he checked out, I wasn't as happy as I had been previously, but I wasn't unhappy unless he was being a jerk to me. It's like he was trying to MAKE me unhappy, but since I had a life outside of him, he couldn't take me down. So I have to think HE was unhappy, but he won't say why, and I don't know what changed. Except possibly that the kids grew up, got their own personalities, likes and dislikes and they don't always mesh with H. H was used to telling the kids what to do, and he no longer could at that point. Other than that I don't know. He's never been able to control me.

But to get back to what I want, I'm pretty darned low maintenance, which is why we probably worked well all this time. But I do need someone to talk to when things go wrong with family matters. Someone who will help out with house maintenance. Someone who will take me out somewhere three or four times a month. Someone who doesn't cringe when I get near.  Someone that cares about what I have to say. I used to have that for 19 years. I even got bonus foot rubs. Then it just switched off, as if I no longer mattered in his life.

[OffRoad]

All of this hits so deep to home with me. H is now claiming that he loves me and he's sad and he will always be here for me and he wants to help me, but we can't be together (no explanation of why, just a vague "everything that's happened" and periodic references to hurt and shame).

If your H feels shame for hitting you, that may be what he is referring to as "everything that's happened". I don't know how someone recovers from doing that,as they must know it is inappropriate behavior. If he can't control himself, the shame he feels cannot be rectified in his mind (i.e. Normal people don't hit other people, therefor he must be defective, type of thinking.) I am very sorry you are going through this.

[vortex of confusion]

But to get back to what I want, I'm pretty darned low maintenance, which is why we probably worked well all this time. But I do need someone to talk to when things go wrong with family matters. Someone who will help out with house maintenance. Someone who will take me out somewhere three or four times a month. Someone who doesn't cringe when I get near.  Someone that cares about what I have to say. I used to have that for 19 years. I even got bonus foot rubs. Then it just switched off, as if I no longer mattered in his life.

 

I think I could have written this. I don't have any good advice because I am struggling with some of the same things. I just posted a thread about being patient and trying to accept that my husband is not capable of the kind of emotional connection that I want and need.

[an0ught]

But to get back to what I want, I'm pretty darned low maintenance, which is why we probably worked well all this time. But I do need someone to talk to when things go wrong with family matters. Someone who will help out with house maintenance. Someone who will take me out somewhere three or four times a month. Someone who doesn't cringe when I get near.  Someone that cares about what I have to say. I used to have that for 19 years. I even got bonus foot rubs. Then it just switched off, as if I no longer mattered in his life.

It may have helped keeping things quiet. But has it helped him feeling needed? Often a good way to build relationships is to ask for help. Maybe it is also a good way to rebuild it?

[OffRoad]

But to get back to what I want, I'm pretty darned low maintenance, which is why we probably worked well all this time. But I do need someone to talk to when things go wrong with family matters. Someone who will help out with house maintenance. Someone who will take me out somewhere three or four times a month. Someone who doesn't cringe when I get near.  Someone that cares about what I have to say. I used to have that for 19 years. I even got bonus foot rubs. Then it just switched off, as if I no longer mattered in his life.

It may have helped keeping things quiet. But has it helped him feeling needed? Often a good way to build relationships is to ask for help. Maybe it is also a good way to rebuild it?

I'm not sure how to make him feel needed. Any time I ask for help with something, I don't get it, even if he agrees to help. For example, there is only so long you can leave a toilet backed up before something has to be done. It's not like I can just leave it for a week until he gets around to it.

Then there is cooking. He likes to cook. There are some things he does quite well. But there are other things that are not edible for the salt content alone. If I ask him if he would cook me one without the extra seasonings, he won't do it. So I either have to make my own (which is OK by me) or not eat. He takes either as an insult.

It is not in my own best mental health interest to continually ask for something, be denied having it, then blamed because I took care of myself. So I just start with caring for myself.

If I don't actually need help, I don't think to ask for it. For example, asking him to vacuum the floor. If it doesn't get done in a week, it is no big deal. But because it is no big deal, I don't think to ask.

I certainly don't want to put myself in the position of being a nag. That's no fun.

Suggestions?

[formflier]

 

Offroad,

I think you should consider what VOC is proposing.

Big picture:  Waiting for a pwBPD to show leadership and move a r/s to a better place is not a good recipe for success.

Waiting for a clear answer before taking action is not a good idea.

I might try to apply some tools to reduce the temp in the r/s before trying this... .but eventually... .I would set that as a goal.

Also... .my advice... .stop debating your feelings...   stop listening to his opinions (especially negative ones) about your feelings.

He gets to express his feelings... .you get to express yours.

If he is curious about your feelings... .he can ask.  If you are curious about his... .you ask.

Anyone tell the "feelings" thing is a trigger in my r/s? 

Oh... .it's been a month or two since I've been "told" how I feel... .and... every once in a while... .she asks how I am feeling...    

FF

[OffRoad]

Offroad,

I think you should consider what VOC is proposing.

What is Vortex proposing? Do you mean to move him back to the bedroom? How do I do that? I can't pick him up and move him there.

Big picture:  Waiting for a pwBPD to show leadership and move a r/s to a better place is not a good recipe for success.

Waiting for a clear answer before taking action is not a good idea.

Agreed. I still don't know what action to take, though.

Also... .my advice... .stop debating your feelings...  stop listening to his opinions (especially negative ones) about your feelings.

He gets to express his feelings... .you get to express yours.

I don't understand. He gets to tell me that I am unhappy and I don't say anything? How is that helpful? And if we both express our feelings, then aren't we debating our feelings since he is telling me I feel one way and I am saying I feel a different way?

If he is curious about your feelings... .he can ask.  If you are curious about his... .you ask.

I'm all on board with this. Except he is telling me what my feelings are, he isn't asking.

Seriously, I get that I am not saying something that I should be saying, but I don't know what it is. He has decided to use my "unhappiness" to justify moving to another room. I have now determined that it is a bogus claim. So now what?

It's like waking up in the pitch dark on an island with one hopping stone path to get off that you can't see, surrounded by piranhas. Somehow I got here, but I don't know how, so I have no idea how to get back.

[formflier]

I'm all on board with this. Except he is telling me what my feelings are, he isn't asking.

Seriously, I get that I am not saying something that I should be saying, but I don't know what it is. He has decided to use my "unhappiness" to justify moving to another room. I have now determined that it is a bogus claim. So now what?

It's like waking up in the pitch dark on an island with one hopping stone path to get off that you can't see, surrounded by piranhas. Somehow I got here, but I don't know how, so I have no idea how to get back.

So... .this issue of "tellling" feelings is triggering for me in my r/s... .and possibly here... .because it is so patently ridiculous that a person can know what someone else is thinking/feeling.

What I did... .and hopefully it will work for you... .

wife: "You feel xyz... ."

me:  "Help me understand how you know how I feel?"  (this one didn't work so well)


me:  "If you would like to know how I feel please ask"  (worked ok)

me:  "Are you asking how I feel?"   (worked ok)

The key is that you don't debate... .saying "you can't know how I feel since you haven't asked" (failed miserably when I tried it... .    )  is invalidating... .  and it is an invitation to argue... .she would say "Yes I can... "

If... .this is as triggering to you... .as it was/is for me... .very likely that you also need to work on appearing calm and not reacting... .this probably helped me as much as the words I said.

Hope this helps... .

Last thought:  Many people advised me to let this go... to ignore it.  I'm sure some do well with this approach... .I couldn't stomach it... .   The hubris involved with the mind reading thing was too much...

FF

[formflier]

 

I'm hoping VOC will come along and explain HOW she moved her hubby back in... .

My prescription would be to focus on reducing the temp for a couple weeks... .

Try to lure him back to bed with something... .     

Then... .move his things back in... .and have the bed in that room disappear.

If he chooses to go sleep on the couch... don't react. 

FF

[vortex of confusion]

I'm hoping VOC will come along and explain HOW she moved her hubby back in... .

I just did it. I moved all of his stuff back into our shared room. At some point, I told him that we were sharing a room again. There were times when I still opt to sleep on the couch. I didn't ask for his input. I didn't give him any warning. I just did it. Just like when I decided I wanted him out of our room, I moved him into another room and dressed it up as, "Oh look honey, I made you your very own little man cave."

Try to lure him back to bed with something... .     

Luring my husband didn't work. I would sneak in his room and try to get him interested in certain activities. He would just roll over. He wasn't going to be lured back in because he had no idea that I was trying to do that. My husband is clueless. I have to give him specific directions and even then he may not get it.

If he chooses to go sleep on the couch... don't react. 

I ended up being the one that chose to sleep on the couch once I moved him back into our room. I would try to snuggle with him or get him interested in certain things and he would just roll over or be tired or just not be interested. Rather than lay there and be mad or sad, I would just get up and go to the couch.

[OffRoad]

FF, I like "Are you asking me how I feel?" That seems like it might work. I would never have thought of that as a question on my own, though.


He doesn't have anything in the spare room, except his computer and that is the only place we have room for it. All of his clothing, toothbrush, etc are all still in the master bedroom. He comes in to brush his teeth and get dressed.

He won't even undress in front of me, so anything along that line is out. I have suspicions that things aren't working like they should and that is why he moved out.

And not that I couldn't get rid of the bed in the spare room, but it is a captains bed with drawers that contain spare sheets and such. Plus, that leaves me without a guest room, but I suppose it isn't a guest room at the moment, anyway.

Wait a second. That was HIS captains bed growing up. Weird... .

[formflier]

 

So... could you move in with him?

FF

[OffRoad]

So... could you move in with him?

FF

Single bed. I'm surprised HE fits in there.

[formflier]

So... could you move in with him?

FF

Single bed. I'm surprised HE fits in there.

So... hop in first!   

[OffRoad]

So... could you move in with him?

FF

Single bed. I'm surprised HE fits in there.

So... hop in first!   

My bet is he will go to the master bedroom and I'll be stuck in the crappy room, but I can give it a try.

[formflier]

 

Then... .go hop in with him in the master...

[vortex of confusion]

My bet is he will go to the master bedroom and I'll be stuck in the crappy room, but I can give it a try.

If it doesn't work, don't take it personally!

I played the whole bed chasing thing for a while. I got tired and gave up. After a while, it felt like I was doing nothing but chasing him and trying to get his attention. It left me feeling kind of blah.

[OffRoad]

I suppose I am getting to the point of "Why bother?". Why would I want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with me? As I said, this behavior has never happened before. Originally, I was trying to figure out why he would use such a lame excuse to move to another room. I didn't think it was going to last this long.

[formflier]

 

Longest I've had to deal with it was about a week... .

One time... .she said something about moving back into the bedroom with me... .and I honestly said something to the effect that I didn't realize she moved out... I really didn't know...

Listen... she is always rearranging and primping and putting this dresser over here... .or over there...

I try to help when she asks... .and offer to help when it seems she is in the mode to nest... .

Her sleeping other places has calmed down a bunch.  I really didn't address it directly... that I remember. 

I would invite her to bed... if she came... great.  If not... or if she said she would come and then didn't... .I wouldn't "take the bait... "

FF

[formflier]

 

Here is another thought... .


Is the bedroom thing an issue... or a symptom of the issue?

If you put a bunch of effort into fixing the "bedroom thing"... but the "issue" isn't better... .might be a waste of effort and time over the bedroom.

Thoughts?

FF

[CharWood]

Sounds like my soon to be ex wife. We were together 4 years and broke up once right around 2 years and now at the 4 year mark, just 4 weeks ago. The first breakup, she pulled that crap of "I want to be seperate but roommates." Still slept In my bed "because she didn't want to be on the couch" up until the week before I reached my limit and kicked her out. All she did was get on her iphone and troll for attention on Facebook and Instagram and drink and act like a loon for 3 months straight before I kicked her out. She had hot and cold behavior too. Would tell me she still loves me when she is drinking, kissed me a few times when sober and then turned around and got defensive and said it was a mistake... .emotionally cheating on me with internet strangers.,it was nuts. I don't know how you went 6 months... .I lost my patience at 3! And, back in July when I saw this roommates crap coming again and the emotional cheating and her mom, who also has BPD getting involved and telling her to leave me, I said get therapy or leave: she left. And even went as far as to meet one of her internet strangers and form a friendship based on attention with him (the guy is a psycho and lowlife... 34 years old and has never owned property, works a minimum wage job and lives with his grandpa... knocked up a 14 year old child when he was 21 or 22... yuck) I know she talks to others online too though, it's not just him.

I wouldn't put up with it if I were you. 22 years is a long time though compared to my 4.even when I kicked my ex out, she still comes around for advice or help doing adult things... she destroyed her life and gave up a good life to hit bottom. Who knows if that will get through to soneone with BPD or not. But either way, you can't let that person use you up and destroy you. You have to draw a line in the sand before he breaks you down to nothing. We don't deserve their abuse... .especially when they won't try to get help. If she tried therapy, I'd be more understanding.

I'm sorry you are going through this. It sounds horrible. But I understand the pain you are enduring right now, believe me. I wish I could stop caring about her. It's hard though. Especially when BPD sufferers are so self destructive... it's hard watching someond you care about wreck their life and walk away from everything that is good.  Is he in therapy? Has he said he won't go?

[OffRoad]

I believe the bedroom thing is a symptom of something else. I'm almost thinking some kind of midlife crisis (he is 46). Last night, he comes in the Master Bedroom (currently "my room" and he was going on and on about how I'm always mad at him, but couldn't come up with any instances(I said "Help me understand how you know I am mad at you." ). He verbally beat me up in circles for nearly an hour before he got down to what was really bothering him: one day last week, he was feeling good about life and had done some chores. He was expecting me to come in and make some kind of big deal over it, but I was having a problem, and I said I was heading off to my room. Later that night he came in and asked if I was mad at him. I said no, I was simply trying to figure out a problem I was having and didn't want to disturb anyone. I apologized for the misunderstanding and thanked him for what he had done. Four days later, he was still PO'd at me because I didn't do whatever he was expecting when I walked in and he still claims I was mad at him. He verbally abused me for over an hour for something I already apologized for. (I tried to get him out of the room, and even left myself, but he followed me. I couldn't leave the house because I wasn't leaving S alone with him.) Also, thanking him for the chores wasn't enough. His verbiage indicated he was expecting some kind of sequence of events that I could not possibly have figured out and when I didn't do that sequence of events, he dysregulated, but stuffed it. Something is REALLY wrong here.

He expects me to play happy family, while he sleeps in the other room, puts on his "happy" mask, but comes and pick fights with me in my bedroom for insane reasons. This is crazy. He was never like this before. But it is ONLY around me.

I'll be locking my door until I figure out what to do. I can't seem to stop making things worse, because if I'm around, I'm doing some made up thing wrong, and if I'm in the bedroom, I'm "avoiding" him. Unless I sit there like a Stepford Wife, I'm doing something wrong. He's obviously stuffing something big, or a whole bunch of small things, but I have no idea what it is.

For those of you with more severe BPD in your partner, once they are dysregulated has their whole life with you always been horrible and you've never had a good day in your marriage, EVER?

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[ptilda]

What about asking a friend or family member to visit for a while? Then you have to give them the guest room. Don't talk to him but just move his things and make up the bed and let him know they will be using it for that amount of time. He'll only have to "endure" a week or whatever sleeping next to you and he can go back if he chooses. Buy a nice pretty nighty and don't say a word. Men see. Even if they don't react.

But my husband? Wow. He's so stubborn. If I tried to do it, he'd find a way to call the police and tell them I was trying to kill him. Haha.

As far as "needing" him, I suggest you don't go about it that way. Instead, if he likes cooking, try a new recipe and ask him to taste it (maybe making sure to leave out the spice or something?) Tell him you miss his signature dish and we're going to try making it, but need his expert opinion on how well you do (Affirming). For my husband it was Haitian squash soup I brought up and when he asked if I had a source for it I said no, but I have a recipe book with it and tried it once but it wasn't quite right. He said to keep trying and he'll taste it. My husband is a great cook and can't leave it done poorly, so he'll get involved.

Today I told him I was thinking about turning the closet of the spare bedroom into a recording studio and he jumped to, "wait for me to help you, it has to be done right." Bingo!

Affirming.

I've been sick for a week and he loved that I depended om him to bring me to the doctor and bring me soup. I had no strength and as sick as it sounds, that made him feel powerful and in control (BPD needs). But if I asked him to do any of that just because, he would be insulted. It's a weird balance.

[formflier]

I believe the bedroom thing is a symptom of something else. I'm almost thinking some kind of midlife crisis (he is 46).

It could by the dynamic of having you "chase" the answer that he is after... .he keeps moving the bar... .you keep chasing. 

Any thoughts?  Has this dynamic ever been present before?  What is different about you in last couple years?  How old is S?

He verbally abused me for over an hour for something I already apologized for. (I tried to get him out of the room, and even left myself, but he followed me. I couldn't leave the house because I wasn't leaving S alone with him.) 

Is there a room in the house with a lock that you could go with S?  Can you take him to car and drive away?

Does he honor requests for a break in the conversation... using "I" statements... .don't make it about him?

What is different in last year or two... .about you?  About S?   His life?

He expects me to play happy family, while he sleeps in the other room, puts on his "happy" mask, but comes and pick fights with me in my bedroom for insane reasons. This is crazy. He was never like this before. But it is ONLY around me.

To me... .this kinda deflates "mid life crisis".  This is about his feelings about an intimate r/s.  (just my theory... my opinion)

because if I'm around, I'm doing some made up thing wrong

What do others think?  I'm thinking not be around... .tell him timeframe... .then come back and test waters. 

Remember... .this is a boundary... .don't worry about what he thinks or feels about it... .don't make it about him... .it's about you.

For those of you with more severe BPD in your partner, once they are dysregulated has their whole life with you always been horrible and you've never had a good day in your marriage, EVER?

Yeah... .I've had it go for days... .maybe a week... .  But that was in the time period where I was making it worse... .I was a part of the dynamic.  Many times I would pour more energy into it... .pickup the gauntlet... .etc etc.

Are you guys in counseling together? 

FF

[OffRoad]

H won't go to counseling. He doesn't think there is anything wrong with him. It's all my fault. This started ramping up about three years ago, but it wasn't until he put the body pillow in bed between us at the beginning of December 2014 I knew I wasn't imagining it. I kept telling him I felt like I was in the relationship alone. He kept insisting he was engaged. I have been to counseling myself before. I was told by two that he was most likely BPD and that it was never going to get better. (I only described our interactions. I was trying to find out what I was doing wrong... .) That is how I ended up here.

What has changed is that D18 went off to college last year, 3000 miles away. Money is tight, because H decided that D needed to go to this private college that was not in our budget, even though we both sat there and crunched the numbers. When I pointed out that sending her to that college meant the rest of us would be living on 1/3 of his salary, he decided right then and there that I was wrong and that D needed to go there. I was right (although I have never said so) and we are bleeding money out of the savings badly.  There will be no money for S to go to college, except for that which I had already put away (about enough for a year and a half at a local state college, and he will have to live at home) I have been searching for a job, but have been out of the workforce for over 10 years. No one wants a 56 year old woman with old technical skills, but I soldier on.

S is 16, but does not yet drive, and is a very easy going kid who, until recently, has not stood up for himself against his father. I would normally have left the house, but several weeks back, H came out and RAGED at S over some little thing, using the F word every third word. H had NEVER done this before. NEVER used that word, or hardly any curse words when addressing either child. The thing was something that S had done, but did not deserve that over the top raging. S just sat there and took it, because he knew he had done something wrong and was so shocked. I kept expecting him to speak up, but he said nothing, just stared at his father. Scared the bejeebers out of both S and me. Asking him later, S said he had done what his father was yelling about, and I told him that no one deserves to be raged at like that, and he was within his rights to leave the room if it ever happened again. From ANYONE. I have informed S that if I need to leave the house to remove myself from an argument, I will inform him and that I would prefer it if he left with me, but it will be his choice. And that if he needs to leave the house for any reason, just tell me.

The room with the lock IS the MB. I kept trying to stop the conversation with "I am very tired. Could we continue this tomorrow?" No soap. He was stuck in a loop. Again, not behavior I have seen to this degree before, but I think I am prepared for it now.

As to what others think: he usually doesn't do this when other people are around, but has slipped several times. He raged at me while I was on Skype with D18. D18 witnessed him accusing me of something I wasn't doing for about 15 minutes(He said I was talking trash about him. We weren't even talking about him at all).  S got the rage that time recently (I had completely disengaged and H couldn't get me to bite at anything, so he went at the only other person in the house.) Right before all this started, he started to rage at D in front of his parents, but caught himself before he went too far. His parents did notice, though. Whenever we go somewhere together and other people enjoy my conversation and company, and especially when they state these things, H looks at me like he doesn't recognize who I am. Like, if other people like me, I can't be so bad, and it confuses him. Again, new behavior.

He has always picked fights, now that I know about BPD, I understand why and can avoid most of them. But he seems to have some NEED to fight with someone on a regular basis, and not in a productive way. It's like he bottles up all his grievances, then vomits his emotions all over whomever is handy that he can get by with it, usually me or one of the kids. I used to run interference for the kids, because I had no idea what was happening, but I wasn't letting them take the brunt of it for no reason. Compared to recent fight picking, it was mild, but still inappropriate.

[OffRoad]

BTW, yes, I am updating my technical skills, but on my own so I have no proof that I actually HAVE those skills, unless I can get in for an interview. Of which I have had several, but they always come back and say they hired someone with "more experience."

[formflier]

 Offroad,

Great post!  As in good information about a bad situation. 

I'll spend some time with this tonight...

We are navigating college drama in our house as well...

My first blush as this is that YOU need to have better boundaries.  Not picking on you...

see my other post... .about my number 1 thing that improved my r/s... .and was 100% under my control.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=281861.0;all

So... .your assignment (if I may be so bold)... .is to come up with 3 boundaries that will improve your r/s an homelife... .go ahead and post about them... .if I don't post first...

I've got trailer bearings calling my name... .

FF

[OffRoad]

Thank, FF. I have plenty of "boundaries". Some get created as I go, because until I run into the situation (like when he would not leave me alone the other night), I have to weigh options in seconds. I could have left. Great boundary. But I was not comfortable leaving S behind. Was I to go tell S that his father was hounding me all over the house at 11:30 pm and I needed to leave and thought it best he should go with me? Not at that time. So that boundary is now in place for anything in the future. Boundary: I will not have discussions in the MB. Existing Boundary modified: When your words are hurtful, they make me unhappy. I would like you to stop, or I will go to my room, leave the house, fill in the blank. I have used this one for years, but this was the first time he would not leave me alone, and the discussion started in the MB.

I can't stop H from sending money to D18. I can shift money from one account to another so H doesn't know how much we actually have. But that is manipulation. I did, for many years, simply put money into accounts for college for the kids. I didn't bother to ask or negotiate, just did it. He never complained, so I continued. It wasn't enough for all the college years, but at H's income we could have managed just fine at any state college for both children. What I have already put in play is notifying D that she may end up having to take out loans for any portion of the remainder of her college years. Existing Boundary: I will not sign any loans for college.

Should I get a job, a boundary will be that I handle the money I earn. H can handle the money he earns if he wants to, but he won't, so no worries there. If it gets down to it, I can pay half of every bill, but I'm only paying half of the amount I would have paid for D to go to college at a state college, not half of what this college costs. (BTW, I did work outside the home full time for the first five years, was sole support for the family for a year and a half and worked contract for several other years to be able to purchase new vehicles when needed and extras for the family)

I can't think of any boundaries that will get him to actually be a romantic partner. You can't make someone do something they don't want to do. And so I am in a marriage that is only a piece of paper that is constantly hurtful because he ignores me and withholds affection. And I still don't know why or what I can do about it.

[formflier]

I can't think of any boundaries that will get him to actually be a romantic partner. You can't make someone do something they don't want to do.

Boundaries don't work this way... .your second sentence shows that you understand this.

A boundary designed to get a partner to do a certain thing... .is usually referred to as manipulative as it is controlling of his stuff.

A true boundary controls your stuff... he can do what he wants.

Such as... .you allow his to blather all he wants at 2 in the morning.  You decide to take your ears elsewhere.  He is not affected... he gets to keep using his mouth all he wants... .and in the manner he wants.  His mouth is his...

You get to use your ears in the manner you want... .they are yours.

Now... .he may claim that he is being manipulated by your leaving... .don't bit... .argue... or explain.  He will figure it out.

FF

[formflier]

 

So... most boundaries (at least in my world)... .have come about because I have been "busted" on something...

She can usually "get" me... once... maybe twice.  Then I wise up... figure out a boundary... .stick to it... .the gig is up.

For instance... .I don't have a FB account... .I don't do social media.  My choice.  She hands me her phone on mothers day... .requests I post something on her FB page. 

Cue FF dear in the headlights look... .my brain is molasses... as I think... .what can possibly go wrong... .?  

I write out some nice stuff... hit post... .I identify in the post that it is me... .posting on her "wall"... or whatever it is.

So... she reads it... .and... .is displeased.  Announces  "that's not going to cut it... "  Stomps around a bit.

FF's brain starts working better... .my internal monologue says... ."you dumba$$"... .

She rewrites the post... .leaves it as coming from me... and it's this over the top...   you are the best ever XOXO... love you more than ever... .blah blah blah... .

Friends start texting me asking if I "really" wrote that... .

They know me... how I talk... .and they figured it out... and just wanted to confirm that part of the post was mine... part hers.

The old me would have pleaded... .argued that she "can't" touch that post... .the new me realizes boundaries... .it's her facebook account... .she can do what she wants.

Since that time... .if offered to do something on FB  "I don't do facebook... "

So... I'm saying this to say... .that don't worry about getting busted a time or two... .it happens... .

I'll work on some boundaries for you... .you are on the right track... .

FF

[shatra]

Such as... .you allow his to blather all he wants at 2 in the morning.  You decide to take your ears elsewhere.  He is not affected... he gets to keep using his mouth all he wants... .and in the manner he wants.  His mouth is his...

=====Good idea. What if you can't leave the area? How can one take one's ears elsewhere?  Putting on headphones might make her more angry... .asking her to cut back on the talking might make her feel "controlled"... .

[formflier]

  Putting on headphones might make her more angry... .asking her to cut back on the talking might make her feel "controlled"... .

I considered this for a while... we talked about it on here... .and we all decided it would be seen as a challenge (headphones).

I roll over... .and lay still.  Yep... I have to hear that stuff... .but it eventually burns out.

I have sleep disabilities... .so... hard for me to pick up and leave. 

It worked... .but took a while.

FF