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Author Topic: Finding the line between codependency and normal human emotions.  (Read 427 times)
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« on: August 11, 2015, 02:43:50 PM »

I've been trying to read a lot about codependency and how to stop it. I know that that is one of my problems and that my codependency contributed to problems in my marriage.

My question is: how do all of you differentiate between codependency and normal human emotion?

I am a Christian and feel like I am supposed to be charitable towards others. I have wondered if getting satisfaction from helping others is codependency or just the natural result of helping someone out. Is the difference between codependency and normal human emotions the intensity of what I feel?

Another situation: My wife and I may be reconciling. She claims to have ended her affair and the amount and way she is talking to me now gives credibility to her claim. We are talking about what would need to happen to reconcile but I am trying to stay guarded. However, I still find myself looking at my phone frequently to see if she has called or texted me. I will also feel anxious at times if she doesn't respond. I have been practicing a lot of techniques to take care of that anxiety, but it still affects me enough that I'll need to take a 2-3 minute break from work to get my head back on straight.

All of that being said, I still miss and love my wife... .as I think anybody would when they truly love someone. Missing your spouse is a normal human emotion. Wanting to hear from them is normal. Wanting to see them is normal.

How the heck do you keep reactions/emotions within a normal range too though?

I'm really just looking for lots of personal experiences with recognizing codependency. I have read a lot of the self-help stuff online, but I am having a hard time applying it to my own life.
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« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2015, 03:11:56 PM »

To me Codependency had a lot to do with focusing on the other person and basing my actions on trying to control that other person. For instance, my husband would go off about something, I would be as nice as possible to him, give him anything he wanted, buy things online, bribe him with sex to try and get him to calm down. I was trying to control how he felt. Then I would be angry with him because I did so much for him and he didn't appreciate it. However he didn't ask for any of it, I voluntarily acted that way to try and influence how he acted. I read the book Codependent no more and it spelled out a lot for me. A lot of what I was doing to make the relationship very bad for me. I did resent my husband because I was so good to him and he was so bad to me. I stopped doing that, I stopped doing things for him to try and influence how he feels. I remember trying to pick out our groceries and not being able to pick out something I wanted because I had always based my decisions on what he wanted to make him happy. I did most things to try and make him happy, to gain his approval of me! That's just insane to me now.

I think to stop being codependent you basically have to start focusing on your feelings and what you actually want. Give them their space to screw up, stop rescuing (that was big for me), stop trying to influence their decisions and do what makes you happy regardless of whether or not someone else approves of it. I was being manipulative and I didn't even know it. I felt so awful about myself when I realized that it all clicked and made sense. I didn't want it to make sense but it was all there. I was extremely codependent.  I guess my best advice is to stop focusing on her. You can worry about her, I worry about my husband, that is natural. But it's what you do with that worry that matters, I say a little prayer and try to distract, because that's all I can do. Think about your actions and your reasons for them. If the reason you are doing something, is to get some sort of desired reaction out of your spouse or approval then you probably aren't doing it for the right reasons.

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« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2015, 03:19:00 PM »

I've been trying to read a lot about codependency and how to stop it. I know that that is one of my problems and that my codependency contributed to problems in my marriage.

My question is: how do all of you differentiate between codependency and normal human emotion?

Does that "emotion" consume you moment to moment and guiding your desisions.  That isn't healthy.

I am a Christian and feel like I am supposed to be charitable towards others. I have wondered if getting satisfaction from helping others is codependency or just the natural result of helping someone out. Is the difference between codependency and normal human emotions the intensity of what I feel?

I'm a Christian too and I found that I love to help.  I volunteer to "fill a need", but is it what GOd wants me to do.  I found that I was doing it for approval/acceptance rather than the leading of the Holy Spirit.  I always end up biting off way more than I should when that happens. I now have to be careful and pray before volunteering.

Another situation: My wife and I may be reconciling. She claims to have ended her affair and the amount and way she is talking to me now gives credibility to her claim. We are talking about what would need to happen to reconcile but I am trying to stay guarded. However, I still find myself looking at my phone frequently to see if she has called or texted me. I will also feel anxious at times if she doesn't respond. I have been practicing a lot of techniques to take care of that anxiety, but it still affects me enough that I'll need to take a 2-3 minute break from work to get my head back on straight.

All of that being said, I still miss and love my wife... .as I think anybody would when they truly love someone. Missing your spouse is a normal human emotion. Wanting to hear from them is normal. Wanting to see them is normal.

How the heck do you keep reactions/emotions within a normal range too though?

I'm really just looking for lots of personal experiences with recognizing codependency. I have read a lot of the self-help stuff online, but I am having a hard time applying it to my own life.

This will take time... .It took me months to learn to let go.  It's not easy.  I do love my wife, but she said something about 10 months ago that stuck with me.  She said, "You care more about our marriage than you do yourself."  She may have been dysregulating at the time, but she was right.  It was a hard pill to swallow.
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« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2015, 03:28:37 PM »

TURBO WROTE: -------------------------------------------

I volunteer to "fill a need", but is it what GOd wants me to do.  I found that I was doing it for approval/acceptance rather than the leading of the Holy Spirit.  I always end up biting off way more than I should when that happens. I now have to be careful and pray before volunteering.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am a Christian too, but love is not about filling a need from one of the parts.It involve both parts to fill each other as long as we talking about humans.Gods love is without conditions because his love does not need reason or to be acknowledged. Love is the creative force, it make whole, it put together, it heals , it makes marriages it does not separate , destroy split as "evil" does.

God is loving = creating god, because we create when we love, and destroy when we hate. A whole (wholy) thing got peace, because it has no internal division, splitting, conflicts. "On the fruits you shall know them , pease, love and happiness ... ."(something alike)

When you love yourself and get "whole" you are in surplus to give love to others by first giving it to yourself. You are serving god by being a whole(wholy) person as your presence tells more than 1000 words. My view Smiling (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2015, 03:40:17 PM »

To me Codependency had a lot to do with focusing on the other person and basing my actions on trying to control that other person.

I agree with that. When it comes to big things, I can see where I was clearly codependent. The difficulty comes with all of the other smaller more frequent things.

Quote from: Cloudy Days


I think to stop being codependent you basically have to start focusing on your feelings and what you actually want. Give them their space to screw up, stop rescuing (that was big for me), stop trying to influence their decisions and do what makes you happy regardless of whether or not someone else approves of it.

I have realized that one of the things I need to do is to keep riding streetbikes and not worry about how that makes her feel. Streetbikes are major part of my identity and it was a mistake born from codependency to veer away from that.

One of the things I have thought about is the amount of effort that I have put into trying to get our marriage fixed versus the amount of effort that she has put in during the last two months. I have done things recently that I didn't want to do or necessarily feel like I should do... .but I thought to myself that I did not want to have any regrets and that I never wanted to feel like I could have done more to save my marriage. It feels like it is healthy because it is what I want, but it also feels unhealthy because I am doing things that I would rather not do.

Quote from: maroonliquid


Does that "emotion" consume you moment to moment and guiding your desisions.  That isn't healthy.

I don't feel like the emotions that stem from all of this consume me anymore. At the beginning of our separation they definitely did, but I don't feel like that is the case now. I am still doing the things I want to do, I'm not taking time off from work, and I'm spending plenty of time with family and friends.

Quote from: maroonliquid


This will take time... .It took me months to learn to let go.  It's not easy.  I do love my wife, but she said something about 10 months ago that stuck with me.  She said, "You care more about our marriage than you do yourself."  She may have been dysregulating at the time, but she was right.  It was a hard pill to swallow.

I definitely cared more about the marriage than I cared about myself. I firmly believe that that contributed to our current mess.

I think reading the words from you and Cloudy Days has helped me to better word my question. How do I make sure that I can be at peace in the future with the actions I take now while maintaining my own happiness right now? I loathe feeling like I could have done more to fix a problem and didn't.

Quote from: borderdude


When you love yourself and get "whole" you are in surplus to give love to others by first giving it to yourself.

I agree completely. I'm trying to do that now. Therapy is helping. The problem is, as I mentioned to maroonliquid and Cloudy Days is figuring out how to be satisfied with my actions now as well as happy.
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« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2015, 03:52:21 PM »

I am one who tends to disagree that there is even such psychological illness known as "codependency".

I see two issues that fall under the standard definition of "codependency":

1)  :)o you put other first in a way that is detrimental to yourself?

2)  :)o you get some kind of "rush" or "high" from others needing you, or from helping others to the point you feel depressed if you aren't needed?

Regarding issue #1 - Sometimes society says it is noble to sacrifice oneself in order to help another.  The question is, are you going so far to help another as to sacrifice your own needs?  Giving to the poor is good, but giving so much that you can't pay your own rent or can't afford to eat is bad.  In regards to relationships - are you extending yourself so far that your well-being or health are in jeopardy?  There's nothing wrong with supporting or helping your wife.  But you do have a problem if you are helping so much that your quality of life is suffering and getting nothing from her in return.

Regarding issue #2 - It's normal to feel good when helping another.  And it is normal to feel good when others need you.  But is that something you need in order to be happy?  Take an extreme example of a mother that intentionally makes her child sick in order to feel needed.  Or takes a job simply in order to feel needed.  Or sabotages someone else's life in order to feel needed.  I think we can agree that those are detrimental behaviors.  

My opinion is that few of us meet the above criteria. That doesn't mean we don't have issues.  From people I have met on here or at Al-Anon meetings, I see us as having inadequate coping mechanisms for situations that don't make logical sense.  So, we help our partners in hopes that it will help us.  I do things for my wife thinking (erroneously) that it will bring about a more stable and happy household.  I'm not intentionally trying to do things for her; I wish more than anything that she would do them herself and leave me alone.  That also fits in with #2.  I meet few people that need to be needed.  Most of us would be happy being left alone.  pwBPD are generally very needy, and I see us as exhausted and wanting out of that role, and not knowing how to step away.  That's much different than intentionally setting up a situation so that we feel needed.  
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« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2015, 03:52:43 PM »

and I forgot : ... .

By giving, while you have anything to give, you are creating a destructive cycle , and internal splitting conflict, as I would define as "evil", as interpret the religious terms. As evil is the "destructive" force.

The short story: You cannot give anything you do not obtain.
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« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2015, 03:57:41 PM »

I guess I'm in broken record mode   but here it goes: It is all about validation and boundaries  

It is natural to pick up emotions from the other side. Some are more likely to pick them up than others but we all do to a degree. We have various options how to deal with those foreign emotions.

First we need to become aware of them and validating the other person is a very good way to do that. The higher the conscious awareness of the emotions on the other side is the better we can insulate our own emotions. That is important as our own emotions affect our behavior. Being aware and acknowledging our own emotions also helps to stay level.

Second it helps having own goals and plans. These serve to protect us from becoming too reactive. Boundaries i.e. rules for ourselves also help us to limit our reactivity in case of the drama of the day. Not controlling when pushed but letting go of the outcome is very hard as our instincts work against us - fear activates the attachment system. Controlling our own fear is thus important too when implementing boundaries.


Looking at the topic this way I don't see the conflict between experiencing emotions and overcoming codependency. Conscious awareness of the emotions of others makes us not more likely to react to them. When we react we can react based on our value system (boundaries) and not based on being manipulated or bullied.


I think experiencing the limits (boundaries) we have and going through the situations that follow as a consequence is often the most effective "cure" for co-dependency.
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« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2015, 04:01:39 PM »

I definitely cared more about the marriage than I cared about myself. I firmly believe that that contributed to our current mess.

I think reading the words from you and Cloudy Days has helped me to better word my question. How do I make sure that I can be at peace in the future with the actions I take now while maintaining my own happiness right now? I loathe feeling like I could have done more to fix a problem and didn't.

To me, I only do things I really want to do. You said you have done things you didn't want to do to save your marriage. I feel your marriage was important to you so you made that choice not for anyone's approval but because you were trying to save something you wanted. Sometimes we do have to do things we don't want to do. That's just life in general. For me I started to have respect for myself once the codependency stopped. If you can respect your own decision then it is probably the right one. I guess what you need to ask yourself is who's problem is it to fix? I used to get very caught up in things my husband wanted, they were his problems though, not mine. Mainly trust issues between me and him. It sort of is my problem because it affects me, but how much do I give up to help him with something that is clearly his problem? Some things I still do for him because I can still respect that I love my husband and he does have issues. But other things I stand my own ground and say no. Because if I did them then I would lose respect for myself for doing them. I always make my feelings clear to my husband. He makes his own decisions after that. Ask yourself, who's problem is this to fix.
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« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2015, 05:32:48 PM »

I think if one wants to contest the label " co-dependency" then there are others such as "enabler" that could fit.  It took me a long time to understand what co-dependency is and the difference between that and being charitable and caring. I don't think we see ourselves very well- some may do this better than others,  but it is hard to look at ourselves and easier to focus on others. When this happens to our detriment, it is part of co-dependency. For me, it took working with a sponsor who could point these things out to me to see what I was doing that is co-dependent.

Cod-dependency is an escape or avoidance of looking too closely at ourselves, and focusing on others to avoid our own issues or painful feelings. It is assuming responsibility for others and robs them of being responsible for themselves. It is inherently harmful and growth stunting to them, under the guise of us being a "good person".

With regards to Christianity, Jesus is presented as perfect, all loving, and all giving, but the Biblical Jesus had boundaries. He got angry at times and and angered other people. Jesus didn't walk on eggshells. I don't think Jesus was a role model for co-dependency.

True "all loving" means considering the other person's best interest, even if it makes that person angry. It means saying no if you mean no, even if it results in a rage. It means being honest if you need to.

Sometimes we need to consider others more- children, elderly people, but in this case we are choosing to be generous, not motivated by fear of anger or abandonment. There are times we can choose to "turn the other cheek" but with full awareness of our motives. We can choose to follow the examples, laws and role models of our respective religions, but we have to also be ourselves.  Co-dependency can result in us hiding who we are or parts of who we are for fear of "hurting" others.

To me, that is the opposite of being in line with our spiritual purpose. We are each unique, and individual to the Creator, and by not being ourselves, we are basically saying "Hey Creator, You made me to be me, but I'm not going to be me". We were given an ethical guide when we adopted a religion, and we can act according to it, but we have to be who we are, not someone else in order to control someone's negative emotions about us. We should not deliberately try to upset our SO's- but acting in ways that keep them calm is controlling and not allowing them to grow emotionally and be the best of who they are. They say "love your neighbor as you love yourself" not more than yourself, and if you don't love yourself, then how can you act lovingly towards someone else?



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« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2015, 08:21:02 AM »

I guess what you need to ask yourself is who's problem is it to fix?

That is a good way of thinking about it to help ward off decisions that harm me.

Quote from: Notwendy


Cod-dependency is an escape or avoidance of looking too closely at ourselves, and focusing on others to avoid our own issues or painful feelings.

This is helpful. I feel like this will help me to be more mindful about the decisions I make in the future to ensure that I am not sweeping something under the rug.

Quote from: Notwendy


and if you don't love yourself, then how can you act lovingly towards someone else?

Valid point. I don't think I loved myself as much as I needed to the last six months before our separation.

Quote from: maxsterling


But you do have a problem if you are helping so much that your quality of life is suffering and getting nothing from her in return.

You may use a different term, but this is still helpful for me in solving the problems that I have. I'm feeling better about a lot of the decisions that I have made because they did not affect my quality of life and I did get something in return.

Quote from: maxsterling


It's normal to feel good when helping another.  And it is normal to feel good when others need you.  But is that something you need in order to be happy? 

I don't think that I need it in order to be happy. Honestly, the things that make me the happiest are having a clean/tidy place to live, time to pursue hobbies, time to hang out with friends, and time to get to the gym as much as I like.
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« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2015, 03:26:25 PM »

Regarding issue #1 - Sometimes society says it is noble to sacrifice oneself in order to help another... .

Regarding issue #2 - It's normal to feel good when helping another.  And it is normal to feel good when others need you.  

This article may help…

https://bpdfamily.com/content/codependency-codependent-relationships

We have this discussion from time to time, "is codependency a bad name for being nice"… the answer is no.  Just a "is BPD a bad name for someone with deep rich emotions".

Also, codependency is not a mental illness… its a symptom of … (depends on the person).

In reading your posts, I sense some codependent thought processes. Or maybe another way of looking at it, do you have a well differentiated sense of self?
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« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2015, 09:03:33 AM »

Although people had mentioned co-dependency to me, I really didn't get it for a while. I thought I was being a good wife, good mom, good person " do unto others" "turn the other cheek" person, but could not understand why my life felt chaotic and overwhelmed. Sense of self? I thought giving of myself was my sense of self, but the other side of this was a sense of resentment towards the people I thought I was so "giving" to.

It makes sense that I didn't see it. I had two examples of how to be a spouse and parent. One was BPD mom, the other was Dad. I didn't have any idea that there was anything disfunctional about Dad. He was ( still is) my hero. I idolized him ( like many daughters do). I owe my very well being to him, as he gave up so much for his family, and was the stable parent for me.

Kids have black and white thinking, so as a kid, I saw Dad as the good parent, Mom as the bad parent. My decision of who to be like was probably something made early on.

It was when I began to have issues in my own marriage that I came across the idea of the match between BPD-Codependent spouses, like a hand in a glove, or a foot in a shoe. I also began to see how my father and mother fit together, and if I had any issues with my H, well, I fit him too. Whatever I might say about him, I could turn the mirror on myself.

So when the MC looked at me and told me I was co-dependent, I was not happy about that, and that is understandable. I didn't think my behavior was as "bad" as some of the behavior of other family members, but their behavior was not mine to change. Mine was.

It is the behavior of our spouses that got us here, but it is us that connected us to our spouses. It may not be easy to see because in our FOO it was the behavior we identified with being a good person. As to religion, it is parents who model the idea of God to us when we are children, because we see parents as all powerful. As adults, we may need to re-frame the idea of being a good person to include being good to ourselves.

If the shoe fits... .
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« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2015, 09:09:34 AM »

i joined co dependents anonymous CODA 
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« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2015, 09:55:01 AM »

I thought I was being a good wife, good mom, good person " do unto others" "turn the other cheek" person, but could not understand why my life felt chaotic and overwhelmed. Sense of self? I thought giving of myself was my sense of self, but the other side of this was a sense of resentment towards the people I thought I was so "giving" to.

I can definitely relate to that. I tried so hard to be a good husband... .but I ended up sacrificing my boundaries in the process and started to resent my wife.

Quote from: Notwendy


As adults, we may need to re-frame the idea of being a good person to include being good to ourselves.

I agree completely. I'm trying to do that now, but it seems like every time I start to feel like I understand how hard it will be, it gets harder.

Quote from: Skip


This article may help…

https://bpdfamily.com/content/codependency-codependent-relationships

From that article... .

For some, the codependent relationship will satisfy the need to feel competent and low self-esteem is boosted by comparing oneself to the dysfunctional partner.

Yeah Skip, you were completely right about that article. I was sort of wondering if I was or how much I had been the enabler in a codependent relationship... .and that article's description of an enabler describes me perfectly.

The problem now is making it out of here. I'm not going to lie, I've been feeling depression creep up on me consistently since the separation started 2.5 months ago. It is starting to get noticeably worse. My ability to function and to work on myself has been tanking. I'm in therapy though and so I'm not sure what else I can do about that.
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« Reply #15 on: August 20, 2015, 09:35:26 PM »

I've struggled with this concept as well. How much support/love is "normal" vs co-dependent?

But i think I've got to the point where I do things because I *WANT* to. Not because I feel I *SHOULD*. I can WANT to give to my wife, because I'm a loving husband, so I do. But doing something because i SHOULD feels like guilt, or obligation.

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« Reply #16 on: August 25, 2015, 05:51:36 AM »

This was my studying focus during the 1st of this year.  The book "Boundaries" by Dr. Townsend is Biblical based and the only book I've read where I finally understood what a boundary is and how to set one for myself.  I can't recommend it highly enough - it saved my sanity this Spring.  In my other readings "co-dependency" is when our dysfunctional behavior is present with everyone or most everyone in our lives.  "Caretaker" is when it directed at one person.  Hang in there!
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« Reply #17 on: August 25, 2015, 07:36:21 AM »

Codependency is an issue when it interferes with your ability to function independently.

It is when the interaction becomes a need rather than an addition to your life.

The test is what happens when you refrain from the interaction
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« Reply #18 on: August 25, 2015, 09:28:20 AM »

It took me considerable time to fully grasp the codependency, not just lexically. The moment I realized and defined my acts of codependency was the moment of understanding.

For me, being codependent is expecting and awaiting  positive reactions or rewards for my acts. When I got them, I felt something I called pleasure - but actually it was not. It was showing off, like a peacock, being proud. If I didn´t get any reward then there was disappointment, feeling offended and urge to do more or better.

Any act made from normal human emotion can also get rewarded or ignored, but if I am in that mode, then I don´t really care about the reaction. I guess that is what people call unconditional. I found myself able to be like that, but not all the time. Sometimes I fall back into the old scheme, but I am glad I can tell the difference.
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Our 2023 Financial Sponsors
We are all appreciative of the members who provide the funding to keep BPDFamily on the air.
12years
alterK
AskingWhy
At Bay
Cat Familiar
CoherentMoose
drained1996
EZEarache
Flora and Fauna
ForeverDad
Gemsforeyes
Goldcrest
Harri
healthfreedom4s
hope2727
khibomsis
Lemon Squeezy
Memorial Donation (4)
Methos
Methuen
Mommydoc
Mutt
P.F.Change
Penumbra66
Red22
Rev
SamwizeGamgee
Skip
Swimmy55
Tartan Pants
Turkish
whirlpoollife



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