He keeps suggesting a break...

[Depression = 72% of members]

So, the other night, BPDh told me I should move back home, but the next day he had changed his tune. Today he told me his DBT therapist said if we got along so great when we were just dating, maybe we should go back to that. I seriously, seriously doubt that is what she actually stated. BPDh is not honest, and he also doesn't actually hear things accurately. I can say something very specific, and he'll twist it to be something not even close to what I say. I'm not talking misunderstanding, this is even beyond that.

I know I've been giving the advice before to call his bluff, and act like I don't care, but I DO! I'm sickened that he's started threatening again. He'd totally stopped that for months. I don't want to go back to just "dating". Heck, we are married, and I feel we need to act married. I'm all for having date nights, but he even resents planning those.

He insisted I move back into the bedroom, so why is he now suggesting a break? If he wanted a break, why not just let me keep sleeping in the spare room? I'm so confused with the way he's acting.

If I call his bluff, it will be a huge move for me, and I really can't afford a mover, and I have no where to put my stuff anyway. Why is his first instinct to throw the marriage away, instead of just trying harder, or actually using some of his DBT skills he's been using. It's like all that has been forgotten. He's back to judging, blaming, being instantly angry.

How best to handle this? I didn't get married to have constant "breaks". I knew he/his ex had done that, and now I know it was HIS doing. I'd told him I didn't want a marriage like that, and he'd agreed, but now he's doing it. We had a discussion about this while we were dating, about divorce not being an option, you find a way to make things work, short of cheating or beating. I just don't understand why he needs constant breaks?

What now?

[Ceruleanblue]

So, the other night, BPDh told me I should move back home, but the next day he had changed his tune. Today he told me his DBT therapist said if we got along so great when we were just dating, maybe we should go back to that. I seriously, seriously doubt that is what she actually stated. BPDh is not honest, and he also doesn't actually hear things accurately. I can say something very specific, and he'll twist it to be something not even close to what I say. I'm not talking misunderstanding, this is even beyond that.

I know I've been giving the advice before to call his bluff, and act like I don't care, but I DO! I'm sickened that he's started threatening again. He'd totally stopped that for months. I don't want to go back to just "dating". Heck, we are married, and I feel we need to act married. I'm all for having date nights, but he even resents planning those.

He insisted I move back into the bedroom, so why is he now suggesting a break? If he wanted a break, why not just let me keep sleeping in the spare room? I'm so confused with the way he's acting.

If I call his bluff, it will be a huge move for me, and I really can't afford a mover, and I have no where to put my stuff anyway. Why is his first instinct to throw the marriage away, instead of just trying harder, or actually using some of his DBT skills he's been using. It's like all that has been forgotten. He's back to judging, blaming, being instantly angry.

How best to handle this? I didn't get married to have constant "breaks". I knew he/his ex had done that, and now I know it was HIS doing. I'd told him I didn't want a marriage like that, and he'd agreed, but now he's doing it. We had a discussion about this while we were dating, about divorce not being an option, you find a way to make things work, short of cheating or beating. I just don't understand why he needs constant breaks?

What now?

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

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[turbo squash]

Sorry to hear about this Ceruleanblue. This must be hard for you.

Is it possible to call him on his bluff without moving back home? What if you started spending a lot more time doing your own things or moved out of the bedroom for a little while? You could tell him that you are trying to give him the space that he wants.

Thoughts?

[sweetheart]

Hi Ceruleanblue,

I believe it's important that you don't 'call his bluff,' this is not something you want.

Keeping your responses low key might help, just basic stuff, like 'I'm sorry you feel like that... .' not engaging in protracted or indepth conversations around this at all might also help.

You can state your truth, 'I want us to stay together, a break is not something I want for us' but state it once and no more and only in relation to your h bringing the subject up again if he does.

This kind of situation will be understandably be triggering for you, so you might be tempted to initiate conversations about it in an attempt to reduce feeling anxious or worried about your marriage. Don't go there.

Try not to focus your attention on your h or his rationale for this, think about you and how you can manage this.

I haven't heard you saying you want to sleep in the spare room, or move out, then don't do these things, don't offer these as solutions, this is not your issue, it is your h's.

And yes this kind of statement can be really unsettling, but it is important that if you don't want to leave, you don't engage. Let your h own this statement, leave it with him. Let him deal with this.

I will say be prepared for his behaviour to possibly escalate around this once he realises that you are not 'playing ball.'

Keep yourself safe.

[formflier]

 

Stay the current course... .his ideas will come and go... .listen... and move on.

Suggest that you set a date to discuss this... .in a day or two... .don't pester him about it... .most likely he will not bring it up  when that date comes.


FF

[formflier]

Big picture... if he wants a break... .he can move somewhere else... .

It's not about a break... .most likely it's about him getting you to do things... .usually that you don't want to do... .

Listen... .don't take action...

FF

[turbo squash]

I believe it's important that you don't 'call his bluff,' this is not something you want.

I haven't heard you saying you want to sleep in the spare room, or move out, then don't do these things, don't offer these as solutions, this is not your issue, it is your h's.

This broaches another topic that I made a thread about yesterday. What is the difference between codependency and normal human emotion? How can we make sure that we are being healthy and not codependent?

I am reminded of something that Vortex of Confusion said a couple of weeks back. She said that when her husband was doing something that she did not approve of, she withdrew her affection to show him how she felt about his actions. That was an active way for her to show that she was not okay with his choices. Does anybody want to live with someone that is making choices that make them that unhappy? Of course not, but what is the alternative?

In another thread I started yesterday, Cloudy Days said,

To me, I only do things I really want to do. You said you have done things you didn't want to do to save your marriage. I feel your marriage was important to you so you made that choice not for anyone's approval but because you were trying to save something you wanted.  

That hit me and helped me to feel better about the things I was doing. I realized that despite the fact that I was unhappy with a lot of my wife's choices and questioning some of my own choices throughout the separation, I realized that I am at peace with all of the efforts that I have made because I want my marriage to workout regardless of what others think. I am willing to give it my all until she insists on divorce because I don't ever want to look back on this and feel like I could have done something differently and saved the marriage.

I think sweetheart makes a good point in that we should be focusing on what we want. Here is something to consider:

Looking back at our separation, I realize now that I could have done a lot of things much differently that would have resulted in a much better outcome. When she first tried to come back two weeks into the separation, I smothered her. She wanted to sleep in the spare room and have space, but I would not leave her alone. This pushed her away even more and she ended up going and living with her sister.

Looking back, I regret not giving her space. I wanted to be close to her and cuddle with her, but she was not ready for it. Because I pushed her, she withdrew and ran away again. Now that I am temporarily living with my parents, I am really wishing that I had given her space and just let her sleep in the spare room alone. My desire to sleep in the same bed with her is of course high. Right now though, I am not even sleeping under the same roof as her. I would MUCH rather sleep in separate rooms under the same roof than live completely separately.

As you can see, I insisted on getting what I wanted in one way and ultimately sabotaged myself and ended up getting even less of what I wanted.

[sweetheart]

Remember if your h wants space, a break, he can leave, sleep in the spare room, stay at a friends. This is not something within your control.

You can convey this to him by not reacting to his requests.

I feel that if you want to raise this for discussion, then MC would be the best vehicle for this. Neutral, safe territory, with a T to run interference 

Your h has been quite dysregulated of late so trying to work this through at home on any level at the moment might lead to you both feeling increasingly triggered.

For me this sounds like a  discussion subject, given how volatile things have been for you of late.

[Cloudy Days]

I know I've been giving the advice before to call his bluff, and act like I don't care, but I DO! I'm sickened that he's started threatening again. He'd totally stopped that for months. I don't want to go back to just "dating". Heck, we are married, and I feel we need to act married. I'm all for having date nights, but he even resents planning those.

One thing I don't think I have said before, is that I have always been honest with my husband about how I feel. I tell him I do not like it when he threatens divorce or says he is going to leave. I simply tell him, I cannot control you and if you want to separate then you can separate from me. I do not want to stay in a marriage I am not wanted, however divorce is not my wish. It's putting the ball in his court basically. You don't have to act like you don't care, you just have to tell him he is able to separate from you if that is what he truly wants.

I just don't understand why he needs constant breaks?

He isn't able to deal with his emotions, he feels overwhelmed with what he is feeling and doesn't feel he can handle your emotions too. Being in a relationship is hard for someone with these kinds of disorders. It's not really about you, it's about him and his inability to process emotions properly. I think you take a lot of what he does personally. It's hard not to do, but it's really not personal. It's just a part of the disorder to want a separation from a partner when things get overwhelming for them.

[Ceruleanblue]

ALL this advice has really helped me. It was pretty much what my gut was telling me, and part of it I acted on before I read your sage posts. He suggested via text that we "talk about this tonight". I stated that "no, I don't want to talk about it later because things are too tense for that". If he brings it up again, I'll request that we wait until MC. I did tell him that I'm really think before I say anything to him, and that I don't feel I can communicate at all with him as things stand. He asked why I didn't bring this up in MC on Monday. I didn't because he always feels attacked, and the session would have turned ugly. I tried to just let HIM have the floor at the last session, but as always he clammed up, and said very little. The only time he talks in therapy is to list all the things he thinks I do wrong. He doesn't soft peddle it either, and he's very blaming. When I bring anything up, I use carful language, "I" statements, and kindness, and he still overreacts.

I just recently moved back into the bedroom, because he kept wanting me to, but even that has not helped him come down from his negativity and apparent anger/blame towards me. He's saying meaner things all the time, and a couple times I took the bait.

I'm trying to give him lots of space, like yesterday I went home, visited my son and parents and had a great day. BPDh was upset because I didn't tell him where I was, what I was doing. I knew my daughter told him though, and he and I had contact a couple times via text, and he never said "hey, where are you, when will you be home". Things seemed mellow, so I just stayed and had a good time. I should have known he'd be upset. He'll find something to be upset about even when things are fine.

My BPDh too admits that he does things to sabotage things when they are good. He's also the most passive aggressive person I've known, ever. He's now withdrawing the recent couple nice things he'd been doing for me(meeting my love language), and I feel he's deliberately doing things he knows annoy me, or that I've asked him not to do. I think he frequently puts me in the "mother" role in his head. Not as in caretaker so much as in "she's nagging me". He resents being asked anything.

My plan is to try to lay low, do my own thing, and try, try, try not to take the bait. It's hard when your resistance is down, or you are scared. I've fought so hard to be healthy, and take the high road, but it feels like he won't be happy until I'm super upset, then he can either blame me, or say "there is something wrong with me"(meaning himself). He likes to play victim sometimes. He'll poke, poke, poke, then I react, and he plays victim. Who wouldn't react for someone mocking being raped? Only a really unhealthy person, I feel, would go there. He'll use whatever is most hurtful to me, and twist the knife.

I'm done trying to talk to him, period. No "let's figure this out" talks. They all end up with him yelling, cussing at me, him forcing all blame on ME, and a list of things I need to do. Not going down that path again.

I'm open to any other ideas, and the advice has been priceless. I agree, if he wants a break, he can surf the spare bed, or move out, because it's his idea... .I'm fully committed to this marriage, and making it healthier.

[formflier]

I just recently moved back into the bedroom, because he kept wanting me to, but even that has not helped him come down from his negativity and apparent anger/blame towards me. He's saying meaner things all the time, and a couple times I took the bait.

Ceruleanblue,

Hey... .a lot of this forum is about "tactics"... .how to respond when a pwBPD does xyz... .

There is another part of this forum that tries to get people to look at the big picture.

Big picture:  When you do things (or don't do things) because that is what your husband wants... .

How does that go for you?  and the relationship?

Based on your answer... .I hope we can think about some significant changes in the way you approach the relationship.  That's very different than what to do or say when your husband says something mean... .

It's kind of a life view sort of thing.

Does that make sense?

FF

[Ceruleanblue]

CloudyDays:

Yes, that is it exactly. He can't deal with his emotions, so he either stuffs them(less frequent), or he explodes(more frequent), and after he's blasted them all over onto me, and blamed me, HE feels better, but I'm feeling awful. I do think he wants the breaks so he can get back into the mindset of dealing with me. He always acts like I'm a lot to put up with, which when I look at it is pretty hilarious. I'm tiptoeing, watching my every word, and almost always giving him his own way, and he's still not happy? That expensive motorcycle wasn't the magic bullet of happiness he thought it would be either.

I'm going to try to say pretty much exactly what you wrote if he brings up the whole "break" thing again, or divorce, or his other favorite "we've tried everything"(personally I think he's currently not working his DBT, so I'm not touching that one). I'm just doing to act blasé, and state what you wrote. I'm committed, and that does put the ball in his court. I really feel good about that.

[Ceruleanblue]

Formflier:

It does make sense. I actually reminded him the other night that when we reconciled, I knew behavioral changes(his DBT) would be very hard for him, and I knew there would still be hard times. I am trying to look at the big picture, and change my overall attitude. I feel I am very accepting that THIS is what he is, and change is just very, very hard for him. He can do it for a while, but he slips back. And even me, I start out dealing with the verbal attacks, and dysregs okay, but after a couple weeks of it, I have slips. I'm trying to do better with that.

I know this will happen, but he doesn't seem to think that's okay, or he fears it will just get as bad as it once was. The big picture is we'll always have this to deal with in our marriage, most likely? I have to look on things as a whole, rather than his most recent dysregs, and how I have reacted or walked away from them?

I think on the whole, this last seven months, considering some of the changes, and reuniting, have been way more good than bad. To me, that is the big picture, or am I looking at it from too close a perspective?

I'm just trying to ride out whatever is going on currently, and hoping we get back to where things were much better. I can't count on him for that, I feel it's going to have to be me, making good choices in how I respond, and deal with it.

I moved back to the bedroom for him, but also because I was okay with doing so. The spare bed is just not as comfortable, and I also wanted to physically show him that I am trying. He doesn't see to see the small ways, or he paints them black, so I didn't see how he could with me coming back to the bedroom.

[formflier]

  I'm tiptoeing, watching my every word, and almost always giving him his own way, and he's still not happy? 

This is the big picture stuff I was referring to... your actions seem to be about him.... your thoughts and posts seem to be about him... .

Where is Ceruleanblue in all of this? 

FF

[Ceruleanblue]

Well, I think I talk about him because I see him as the issue I'm having to deal with. I'm not having issue of my own creating. I vent here about him, get advice, then I have a better plan on how best to make my life more peaceful. I'm not quite getting there.

My Mom and I were talking just yesterday about how happy I am when I'm not around him. Sadly. I do things that I enjoy. I just got back from doing one of my favorite things in fact. I also have a nice surprise for BPDh when he gets home. He's meeting a friend after work, which is something he loves to do.

I've also taken up a new hobby this year, by having a flower garden that has turned out really nicely. Neighbors have complimented me on it, and it's something I'm getting a lot of pleasure from.

I also am really looking forward to vacation which starts this Friday. I just wish I could do is solo, or with one of my kids, but I got the veto on that. I'm going to enjoy myself though, or die trying. I didn't let him ruin the last getaway, and I'm going to try the same tactic this trip.

[formflier]

I just wish I could do is solo, or with one of my kids, but I got the veto on that. 

Who vetoed it?

[Ceruleanblue]

BPDh vetoed it, and now after going out with a friend tonight, he invited his friend and the new girlfriend to come up to the cabin we rented. Without consulting me. I've never met this girlfriend of his friend, and I barely know his friend. I didn't want company, and they are showing up the first night we are there.

Plus BPDh invited his son up there, and I thought once I found out my kids couldn't come, he wasn't going to invite him. I thought it would be time for just us, no pressure.

BPDh has way, way to much control and say of MY life. If I say no to this guy coming up, I'll be the bad guy. I'm sick of living with the fallout that BPDh creates. I DID NOT want to have to be social, this was supposed to be relaxing time for me/us!

[formflier]

BPDh has way, way to much control and say of MY life.

Yes... .I agree... .

How did this state of affairs come to be?

FF

[Ceruleanblue]

I know exactly how it came to be. I was blindsided by it, because he changed after we married, and instead of instantly having boundaries, I thought me compromising, me doing more, would make him happy. I didn't know that I was dealing with BPD, and by the time I found out, he just demanded continued compliance, and when I'd try to set a boundary, or stand up for myself, he'd sometimes get aggressive. He can be scary angry.

I know now that I really need to take back my power, and I always knew that boundaries are a good thing, but boy he doesn't see them that way. He even hates setting any boundaries himself, with others(he certainly doesn't mind with me), and he sees them as just punishment. So, basically anything I do for myself, to honor myself, is viewed in a negative light.

I think some of what I'm getting from him could be extinction bursts, or maybe even just him changing tactics.

I did set a boundary regarding the vacation today, but I know he's going to later use it against me. He has a long history of that. I think to him, compromise, makes him feel weak. Damages his macho ego of being in total control.

Oh, well. I guess if I care enough to set a boundary, I should just enjoy the victory, and not worry so much about how HE feels. I just worry about reprisals from him on the trip. He grudges and he can be super passive aggressive. I just worry there will be a price to pay.

He actually planned something with another guy up there too. I didn't even know he knew anyone in the area! I just doesn't end. I was a relaxing, solo vacation. Just us, no intrusions, and no having to socialize. Why can't he plan this stuff when we are home? Dinner with them or something? I can't help but think this was all deliberate. I feel like he's turning my thinking as negative as his is... .

[formflier]

I just worry there will be a price to pay.

There will be... .sometimes it "costs" us to protect our "property"

Are you worth the price?

FF

[formflier]

I feel like he's turning my thinking as negative as his is... .

Who is in charge of your thinking?

FF

[Ceruleanblue]

Well, of course I'm in charge of my thinking, but I do feel certain traits pwBPD they display are sometimes hard not to pick up. A constant diet of negativity, is the one I struggle with. About 7 years, I made a really conscious choice to change my thinking drastically towards the positive. It's at attitude I've tried hard to maintain. It's sort of like someone who's stopped smoking living with a smoker(I don't smoke), but that's the closest analogy I can think of. It' like I don't want my thinking to turn negative, but I feel it does more often than if I was surrounded by someone not so utterly negative.  The analogy was used because just this week he told me any analogies I make are STUPID, and way, way off base.

And yeah, I guess I just pay the price for setting the boundary. I think all I can do is be prepared that I may be dealing with some negative behaviors, and be prepared to not react, take the bait, and walk away if need be. At least I like taking solo walks. See, silver lining. 

[formflier]

It's sort of like someone who's stopped smoking living with a smoker(I don't smoke), but that's the closest analogy I can think of. 

Yes... .this is the right track... .

What do you do when the smoker lights up?

FF

[turbo squash]

It's sort of like someone who's stopped smoking living with a smoker(I don't smoke), but that's the closest analogy I can think of. 

Yes... .this is the right track... .

What do you do when the smoker lights up?

FF

I don't have anything to add to this, just wanted to say that I always love your posts FF. They are insightful and very helpful.

Ceruleanblue, is there anything you can do that helps you to just instantly clear your head?

For me, riding my motorcycle is the thing that always calms me down and helps me think straight. I feel like I have thought through more things while riding my motorcycle than while doing anything else. I feel an intense and immediate relaxation effect as soon as I start moving. Is there something that has a similar effect on you that you can do?

[formflier]

 

I take walks... .there are a couple routes around my house that are about 3 miles or so.  Usually... .I am much better after a mile or so.

After three... .I'm usually thinking pretty good.

FF

[Ceruleanblue]

Yeah, for me it's walks too. Although, I have a really beautiful motorcycle I could finally take my test for, and that would require such concentration, I'd have to get my mind off things. I mostly don't want to ride it because BPDh insisted I learn to ride, then insisted I take one of the classes when I was sick. I ended up that night in the ER. My blood pressure is lower now, still not low enough, but not stroke level, at least. I just fear if I do get licensed, it's going to end up being another battle of him always wanting me to ride. He'd previously promised he just wanted to ride, no joining a bike gang, no going to tons of events, no long road trips, but as always he's going back on his word. I DO NOT want to be killed on a bike, and he has road rage.

For now, I'll stick to walks. I can't say it really clears my head though. At the end of a brisk walk, I'll feel some better, but honestly, I spend a lot of the walk thinking about what I could have done differently, or why the tool I used didn't work. I'd love to just erase my mind from it all, and have some peace.

[formflier]

I mostly don't want to ride it because BPDh insisted I learn to ride

 

Why does this raise red flags?

FF

[Ceruleanblue]

I'll take full responsibility that I resent always giving him his way for the sake of some peace. A sort of peace. I'm just still learning to set boundaries, and even then they are not always effective. He wheedles, and he guilts me, and he says things that scare me. He pretty much insisted that I meet certain conditions before he agreed to reconcile, and his getting a bike was one of them. It did not extend to me having to ride, and I think that's why I resent it.

I can't say I'm still fully resentful, but I do fear if I do that it's going to be perceived by HIM as him waiting me out, and getting his way yet again. Plus, I have real fear of riding. I mean, of getting creamed by a car actually.

[formflier]

  I do fear if I do that it's going to be perceived by HIM as him waiting me out, and getting his way yet again. 

 

You are close... .IMO... .to what I was thinking.

Back up a bit... .stop looking at the tree... .or the trees... look at the entire forest.  Look at your life... .

Boundary work is hard... .I'll tell you about my first one... .in a bit.  The key is to hold to it... .or... .not set one... move along... .and live your life. 

Don't waffle... .pick one side or the other...

FF

[formflier]

 

CB,

First... .if you feel I've been "after you" a bit lately... .it's because I have been... .very intentionally.  I am very glad that senior members here "got after me" about CONSISTENCY in boundaries.  That waffling was worse than no boundaries.

Look up lesson on intermittent reinforcement... .

So... .my first boundary was email passwords and access to phone... .sort of one and the same.  But technically two different passwords... .but... if you are on my phone... you are in my email.

I changed it... .wife flipped out... .then acted like no big deal... .then flipped out... .you get the picture.  Luckily... .I stayed calm... .

Every once in a while I would say that she gets to have her privacy and passwords... .and I get to have mine.  It's even... .nobody is controlled or subservient to the other. 

SHE HATED THIS... .  I'm saying this... .because your husband WILL NOT LIKE YOUR BOUNDARIES

Do not hold this against him... .it is his right to feel the way he feels.  Just as much as it is your right to control yourself... .

So... back to my story... .  The extinction burst came when my wife said "password or sex".  No password... equals no goodies for me. 

Except... .she proposed this as I was about to start having sex with her.

To be clear... .she used her hand to guide me away and whispered in my ear that I could "get in there" if I would give her the password.

Again... .due to coaching on here... .I remained calm... stood my ground and rolled over and went to sleep.

Yes... .inside I was furious... .but I held my ground.

Passwords and email silliness hasn't been even mentioned in my house in months.  Last incident was me leaving my computer open and she forwarded some emails.

I was the one that left the computer unattended  My wife is a snooper... .has paranoid thoughts... .if you leave a computer open an unattended... .I shouldn't be shocked that she snoops.

CB,

You are at a decision point.   

I hope you go enjoy a relaxing weekend alone... .and invite your husband to come.

If he brings extras... .go find another alone place and invite him.

If you stick with it and are consistent... YOU will feel better about yourself and most likely see your resentment go down.

FF

 

 

[Cloudy Days]

Do you listen to music on your walks? Music in general clears my mind and when you pair it with walking it's hard to think about problems. If I just walk without music I do the same thing as you and my mind just goes where I don't want it to go. This may sound stupid but I also bought an adult coloring book... . I highly recommend it to anyone who wants a way to clear their head. They even have one made for mindfulness.

I must say, I have never gotten on a motorcycle, I would definitely never do it with my husband. My husband's step brother just barely lived from a motorcycle accident, no one hit him something went wrong on the bike.

I'll take full responsibility that I resent always giving him his way for the sake of some peace. A sort of peace. I'm just still learning to set boundaries, and even then they are not always effective. He wheedles, and he guilts me, and he says things that scare me.

Resentment is a part of Codependency, you realize he isn't forcing you to give him his way. He's just making it difficult for you to say no. Boundaries are not something you put in place for him to follow, it is something you put in place that you follow, something that keeps you from getting hurt. He set a boundary for you actually. You had to meet certain conditions before he agreed to reconcile, that is a boundary. If you had agreed to the bike and then went back on the agreement, he would have walked away correct? Point being, he's going to push any boundary you create, it's up to you to create the rule and stick to the rule. If you back peddle on it to keep the peace, he is going to see that and it is going to be harder the next time you create a boundary. Don't create a boundary until you are fully ready to enforce it. It's not something he is expected to do, it is something you do when he does something you don't want. Best example for me is when my husband calls me a name. He's going to call me names, but I made it clear that if he calls me a name I am going to leave the room or hang up the phone. He's going to test the boundary, and he's going to push it to see if he can get his way. That's why you have to be prepared to stick to your boundary before you make one.