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Author Topic: He's asking for the truth . . .  (Read 411 times)
ptilda
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« on: August 12, 2015, 02:51:34 PM »

Sorry for the wave of posts, but I feel this one needs a new topic to do it justice.

After 4-ish months of pretty much ST including him moving out, calling the police claiming I was "going to start beating him," distortion campaigning, etc, H out of the blue wants to help me and be there for me financially, etc. Possibly because he found out I'm struggling and this puts him in a position of power which he has craved in our relationship.

Anyhow, I'm sick with the flu so he brought over Thera Flu. First time I've seen him in about 2 months (last time was about a month after he left, he brought a police escort in to help him move out the rest of his things. I JADEd as a reaction to what he said when he was accusing me of "doing things" that made it so that the marriage can't be repaired. I blurted out, "YOU are the one who beat ME!" Which is true, but not helpful to say.

He stomped out. Here's the following text message conversation:

Me: "thanks" [for bringing the medicine]

"I do see how it seems to you that you have no other option. I'm working to understand" [feeble attempt at affirmation]

Him: "understand what?"

Me: "Your feelings."

"You feel that there is no other way."

"Maybe you're right"

Him: "Right in what? [my name] you have just said I beat you then I have to pay before God in before the government of your voice"

"Country"

"You nevertheless [meaning never] admitted anything then I can't stay for pain"

"That's all"

"My safety first"

Me: "I can see that you feel it's extreme like that, but you are not that kind of person really. I married a wonderful, loving, caring man whom I admire greatly. Again, we share responsibility. We both did bad things and together wee can fix it. I am eager to work towards that with you. Even if we don't save our marriage, at least we will be stronger and more whole."

Him: "Every time I asked you what did I do to you you never answered. Can you please tell me now?" [despite me just outbursting about him beating me]

"I know I'm not perfect"

I think there's something happening here. But I don't know how to work it the right way. At first I thought he was just fishing for more "evidence" against me (not a concern since me telling him he did bad things is not going to make me look bad in court when I have evidence to back it up, but I don't want to get entangled in a game).

Can I get some ideas on how to respond? I am leaning more towards focusing on the need for counseling. If I can downplay the emotional outbursts . . . even those resulting in physical violence, it might help to deflate the situation. Focusing on the emotions he was feeling that made him react like he did, but stating in a way that shares the responsibility such as focusing on the stress of living together for the first time, might be more advantageous.

I'm trying to formulate something in my mind along the lines of: "I'm mostly interested in the root of why we stopped being a team. It must have been a very difficult time for you to leave your home and family and security to come be with me, and I am so grateful for you giving me that chance. I only wish that we can understand that relationships are hard. Even when there is no cultural and language barrier, it's normal for marriages to require the couple to get some help and advice in how to communicate and work to become strong together. I think taking the time to sit down with a counselor on a regular basis would have helped me to understand the ways I was showing you disrespect even when I didn't meant to, and would have helped you to understand that I communicate in a different way from you."

It's a rough idea . . .
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Daniell85
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« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2015, 03:07:52 PM »

I don't have any ideas for you except I agree something is happening. I doubt he really wants a divorce. 
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ptilda
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« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2015, 03:48:10 PM »

He came back to the house again just now. Gave me $100 and we spoke well for a while. Then he asked again what he did wrong. And I said I feel that what he did wrong was to give up too early and refuse to go to counseling. When he asked specifically what he DID to ME, I said he allowed his anger to make problems. He asked how he did that, and I said by yelling and calling me bad names. He asked what names, and I repeated the names. He said, "what would you do if you caught me in the house with another woman?" I reminded him that he never caught me with another man. He's referring to the first night he came in and my friend (ex from 10 years ago) was waiting for us in the hallway to congratulate him and welcome him home. The guy (who has Aspergers) followed us into the house until I asked him why he was in our house and made him leave. I since threatened him with a restraining order if he comes again because he does not understand boundaries. But the damage was done. H is convinced that he had been my man that whole time and that I arranged for him to be here. I told him. My niece (who lived with us at the time) told him. Everyone told him. He refuses to listen.

He said he already filed the divorce papers, so there's "nothing he can do" to stop it. I told him that's not true. It's easy to stop. I told him what if the judge requires counseling? He said then he will go, but he "already took my decision."

Seeing me has affected him deeply. He was on the brink of breaking down. Tears and everything else. He keeps telling me he loves me and will help me. He even told me I can apply for jobs for him if I find some PCA jobs (he's in school now for his CNA license). This is a huge thing from the guy who just a couple of days ago was saying he can't even be in the same place with me because he's endangering his life.

He's swaying, but I'm not sure where he's going to hit next. I'm praying for guidance.

Here's what I sent to him, for better or worse:

"I know it hurt you for [other guy's name] to meet us in the hallway that first night. How many times can I apologize? How many times fo I have to swear there was no relationship? If that happened to me, I would not even blink. I'm a trusting and not a jealous person. I know my commitment to you and so that is how I assume you will be as well. I never cheated on you. Not even in my heart and certainly not in y body. Blaming me for something I could not control, that is the biggest thing you did wrong. I did not get angry at you when I was threatened by another woman on Facebook. I don't know whhy it happened. I asked God over and over. I know that I should have established a boundary with him and just told him I couldn't help him when he got into trouble. Being too naive and trusting was my mistake with him. Give me a chance to fix it.

But justifying your actions of being angry and verbally, emotionally, and physically aggressive is not excused because of what happened. Just like I have no excuse for reacting badly to you and calling you names and hitting your leg and chest in the car that one day, you have no excuse for hitting me and calling me bad names. We are both responsible and together we can fix it. I can only do what I can do. Neither of us can change the past, but we can change our future."

And with that discussion begins.
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formflier
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« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2015, 04:34:44 PM »

 

Much better to save explanations for in person... .

He is doing that some now... .

So... when he asks for answers... .assure him you will consider the request and have a proper answer for next time he comes over... .and that is a great time to invite him.

He may try to speed it up... get you to accuse and get specific... .I would avoid that... .

Focus more on what "to do" in the future instead of arguing/discussing what "was done" in the past...

 

I hope you are feeling better... .which reminds me... .put off answers until you feel better...

FF
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ptilda
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« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2015, 05:01:29 PM »

Yeah, I just told him I'm to sick and sleepy to talk more about it now.

Talking about the future is tricky. He only lives in the past. But we're getting there . . . I know how to "trigger" him in good ways too, making him feel sentimental and wistful towards me. I'm trying to focus on that a bit. Let him miss me . . . us.
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formflier
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« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2015, 05:29:11 PM »

Yeah, I just told him I'm to sick and sleepy to talk more about it now.

Talking about the future is tricky. He only lives in the past. But we're getting there . . . I know how to "trigger" him in good ways too, making him feel sentimental and wistful towards me. I'm trying to focus on that a bit. Let him miss me . . . us.

If you don't talk about the past... .he will grow weary and eventually talk about future... .
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ptilda
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« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2015, 09:46:23 PM »

Touche
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babyducks
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« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2015, 05:38:30 AM »

projection is some weird stuff.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=70931.20

My favorite quote about projection is from Margalis Fjelstad

Excerpt
"About 90 percent of the time, whatever the BP/NP says about you is a much better, more reliable statement about him or her.   The BP/NP uses projection to shift the blame for his or her own failings, feelings and disappointments onto you.  It is a way to disown his or her own awful feelings and it is a way to control you."

When having those tricky conversation about the truth here are some tips that I have used in the past.



  • when talking about emotionally sensitive topics pwBPD might only 'hear' part of a sentence or grasp part of thought concept at a time, their emotions are overwhelming their logic, keep things simple. break things down into smaller bite sized segments,


  • judicious use of pronouns, You, I and We can be very powerful in an emotionally heighten conversation


  • if my validation skills are failing me I tend to fall back on SET, Support, Empathy, Truth, which is easier


  • beware of joining words like BUT, AND, ALSO, HOWEVER, pwBPD tend to hear them as ahah now the shoe is about to drop





On the topic of SET and projection, I keep noticing his comments on safety and violence.  I am wondering if they are some form of projection.   Picking up FF idea I would SET his comments like this (just a suggestion)

Excerpt
"You nevertheless [meaning never] admitted anything then I can't stay for pain"

"That's all"

"My safety first

SUPPORT - You are absolutely right, safety is very important,  it should be safety first. (okay so I am spinning the safety idea into safety in general but I feel that's okay to do here. It's also looking forward like FF mentioned not back into the past)

EMPATHY - I have some strong feelings about this too.  (understatement of the year award)

TRUTH -  I would feel better as things move forward if we could visit a therapist.  (This has the benefit of being about you and undoubtedly true.)

While all of this is going on around him, I hope you are taking some time to be good to yourself,  give yourself some down time, process what you've been dealing with.   feel better

'ducks

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ptilda
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« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2015, 01:45:39 PM »

I was able to effectively use my sickness to ward off a serious conversation. Now we're engaging in small talk. He's checking up on me, accusing my church of using me as a "checker" (game piece). He's using the supposed guilt of others to justify my actions, and is effectively painting me white. I think this stage needs to stabilize for a couple of days before we have further serious conversation.

After he asked how I was feeling and I told him "better" and thanked him profusely for his help (the breakdown in our relationship started because he felt I didn't need him, so this has been helpful that I went to him for help), I sent a funny-face selfie and said, "do I look like I'm feeling better?" I know seeing me is his weakness. He adores me. Was in tears yesterday looking at me for the first time in months. Taking it slowly!

I am taking the advice about looking at the future. I think that makes the most sense. He is in school for his CNA license, and will start general classes in the fall. We have a great relationship when things are good, and we are good partners. Even if we need to have a non-traditional marriage (for a while), it seems silly to risk him losing his career moves (and freedom) because of the divorce. So hopefully I can help focus him that way by focusing myself that way.

My goal is to keep talking about the long-term. Talk about when he finishes his 2 year degree and where he will go after. Talking about finding a long-term job. Talking about family, etc. Keep him looking ahead instead of backward.
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turbo squash
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« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2015, 01:59:47 PM »

My goal is to keep talking about the long-term. Talk about when he finishes his 2 year degree and where he will go after. Talking about finding a long-term job. Talking about family, etc. Keep him looking ahead instead of backward.

This seems like a good idea to me. I wish I had done more of this before my current NC week started, but it seems that I am currently painted very white and so maybe I will get the result I want because I don't have any opportunity to screw it up and make her see me as anything other than wonderful.
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formflier
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« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2015, 02:01:11 PM »

My goal is to keep talking about the long-term. Talk about when he finishes his 2 year degree and where he will go after. Talking about finding a long-term job. Talking about family, etc. Keep him looking ahead instead of backward.

Hmmm... .if this works... .then ok.

But... .it could freak him out.

BPD tends to be a "in the moment" kind of disorder.  

So... if for that moment his is ok with long term... it might go good... .then... .he might thing you are trying to trap him... .

Hard to tell... .

Test the waters gently...

Don't react if he is fine one day with it... .and not the next.

FF
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