BPDh invites others on our vaction? What?

[Ceruleanblue]

BPDh came home from going out with his friend, and drops the bomb that he invited this guy, and his new girlfriend up to the cabin with us. We'd done dinner with this guy a couple times, and I met his ex wife, we went to their wedding, but I don't know him well. I don't know this knew girlfriend at all. Plus, I didn't want anyone to accompany us! BPDh also invited his son, which after my kids weren't able to come, I sort of thought he would do. I never get consulted on anything, and things have been so tense, I don't feel I can rock the boat.

How do I deal with this? He obviously already invited the guy, for the day we arrive there, no less, and if I say "no", I'm clearly going to be the bad guy. I don't even feel like going anymore. Seriously.

And I'm just so mad that yet again, I wasn't asked, yet I have to deal with what he plans. I didn't want to be social with people I barely know. I just feel like crying.

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[Ceruleanblue]

I think he may have done this because he knows it's outrageous to invite someone without even consulting your partner? Did he do this just to show dominance and cause more trouble?

I'm tempted to do my usual, and just go along to get along, but I really don't want to. I don't want company along on this vacation. I just don't.

[ptilda]

Make the border and stick with it. You might lose, but if you don't do it now, I feel he'll keep pushing the boundaries.

Something along the lines of, "I understand you want to share this time with people who are important to you, and I feel the same way. That's why I am unable to be okay with sharing the vacation I get to take with the most important person in my life."

Maybe even offer to plan a later trip together with the other couple where you are part of the decision?

[Ceruleanblue]

BPDh didn't know I was on this site, so I read him exactly what you wrote and he just kept arguing that he thinks it would be fun to have them, and that it's "no big deal". I'd nicely asked him last night to stop saying that, because it might not be a big deal to him(although by all his arguing, it certainly must be), but to ME, it is.

There have been times that I'll beg him to plan a date night for us, we'll be on our way there, with reservations, and his daughter calls, and he invites daughter/boyfriend along. I'd thought after the second time he did that, and he promised not to do that sort of thing again, he had caught on, but no. THIS with the vacation feels just like that to me. Our special times we have planned his always wants to bring someone else. It makes me feel like I'm not enough for him. I told him that, so he'd understand a little better, but I'm pretty sure he just lumped it into the "she's needy" category. He turns everything so negative.

This has really taken the joy out of the vacation for me. He's all going on and on about this guy bringing his jet ski(I didn't even see if jet skis could be used on this small lake), and it's clear that all the plans I had for Friday/Saturday are now ruined. I wanted to relax, not jet ski, not entertain others. Not spend my time talking to some woman I just met.

I just feel like cancelling the vacation, or going alone. If BPDh ends up agreeing to not invite them it also gives him years of ammo to use against me. I still hear about one family reunion I missed.

[formflier]

 

Quick boundaries lesson... .

You are trying to control something... that you don't control. Your husband...

He controls who he invites or doesn't on a vacation... .  He controls whether or not he honors vacation plans with you.

Quick question:  What was the agreement for the vacation?  My impression was it was just the two of you... .but if this was never verbalized and agreed to... .


CeruleanBlue needs to focus her boundary work on what she controls. 

Last hint:  Don't make this a big deal to him... .don't be reactive... .be even and centered.  Say your feelings with I statements... .but don't act them out... .

What does CB control?

FF

[formflier]

and that it's "no big deal". I'd nicely asked him last night to stop saying that, because it might not be a big deal to him(although by all his arguing, it certainly must be), but to ME, it is.

Quick tactics lesson:  Instead of asking him to stop... .which pitches him a fast ball to "blow you off".  State:  "It is a big deal to me... ."  walk away... no more debate... .NO MORE DEBATE

There have been times that I'll beg him to plan a date night for us, we'll be on our way there, with reservations, and his daughter calls, and he invites daughter/boyfriend along.

Think about what your words have been telling him... .and compare that to what your actions have been.

Do they match... ?

FF

[Ceruleanblue]

I don't feel I'm trying to control BPDh in any way. This was an agreed upon family vacation, then my kids cancelled, and I expressed to him, I'd like it to be just us. He and I have had many discussions about him last minute inviting people to do things with us. He more than knows this has been an issue, and he was hesitant to tell me because he knows this breaks the deal we have about that.

I feel HE is trying to control ME, and the trip I'd planned for us. I planned it because he showed no interest. He was totally on board with going, he just didn't want the planning part of it. If I'd wanted friends to join us, I'd have planned that, or he could have asked ME first. I'd do the same with him. I run things by him, I don't just make unilateral decisions. Like, ever.

I'm comfortable with the boundary I drew around our vacation. I feel I should be allowed some quality time with my spouse, without having to share. He has a really healthy social life, and we've been pretty disconnected lately.

I also didn't keep debating nor arguing with him about it last night. I just asked him to stop saying it wasn't a big deal, because to me, IT IS. I only repeated it as a reminder this morning. I do this because he doesn't always catch things the first time, and I wanted to reinforce it. My feelings do matter.

I think my actions definitely match what I've been telling him. I was upset the other times he asked people along on our special dates, and my actions showed that, just not in a totally outrageous way like he does. I simply explained to him how hurtful it was, and why. In those instances, there was no way to set a boundary, because he just did it, at least this time he told me before the event has occurred, so I was able to say "not cool, I'd rather you not invite them".

How are you thinking my actions don't match what I feel? Just curious.

[Ceruleanblue]

And if my boundary is controlling him, isn't every boundary then? That is what he always tell me. I see this boundary as controlling MY time(and or time together), the time I had planned, and that we'd already discussed. I feel he broke an agreement.

If this is trying to control HIM, then what is my only other option that wouldn't be controlling him? Just not go myself? How is that fair? I either live with him getting his way, thereby ruining the vacation for me, or I just don't go? I'm sick to death of him only thinking of himself, and not caring about my feelings.

We had a plan, and he's the one who went off course. If he hated something, or something made him uncomfortable, I wouldn't plan doing that on our vacation. I wanted this to be a nice time for both of us. I feel he's taken the vacation hostage, and made it into yet another power trip.

[formflier]

How are you thinking my actions don't match what I feel? Just curious.

Well... .it depends on what happens when you get to vacation and others show up.

But... .there is a history of you saying what you wan't... .and caving in. 

So... .look at it from his perspective.  That's what you do... .why would you do it if it wasn't ok with you? 

So... you cave in... .the event happens... .all is well (again... from his point of view).

If... .he invites people on trip... .you go along and maybe go on a walk by yourself... .or something like that.  In his mind... .I believe... this will be "situation normal". 

Sure... you might grump about it a bit... .but... .as long as you go along with your pattern... .he won't notice or think it out of the ordinary.

What you do... .is much more important than what you say...

FF

[fiveplus]

I totally get what you're saying. I used to get SO mad that my husband would act like he should have the last say on anything, change our plans to whatever HE wanted ... .and pretty

much never gave a thought about how I feel at all.  It's NOT fair! That's not a marriage!

 

It took a LONG, LONG, LONG time for me to realize that , even though the changes I wanted HIM to make would help our marriage, he is allowed to BE WHO HE IS! We all are!

Even though you THOUGHT he was someone else when you married him and now he pulled the ol' switcheroo and is NOT that person... .fair or not... .he is who he is.

You can threaten, plead, explain, ask "why", compromise what you want... .and he is STILL GOING TO DO WHAT HE IS GOING TO DO.

Whether it is BPD, just plain hatefulness, whatever... .HE controls HIS behavior.   Sometimes we want the people in our lives to change something they're doing that hurts us

because,  "HEY, You're supposed to LOVE me and THAT hurts!

"Maybe they will and maybe they won't.   YOU cannot make someone change for ANY reason. Not to save your marriage, not to save your sanity, not to save their LIFE. YOU cannot!

Your husband KNOWS how you feel! Scary and painful as it is,  it's up to HIM to DECIDE whether HE wants to change HIS behavior.

[formflier]

Just not go myself? How is that fair?  

First... .  

It's not fair... .you don't deserve this... . 

Oh no... .what is this?  Formflier is fading into his movie moment... .(it's been a while... .I do this often in real life... to make a point.  Anyone tell I like movies... .?   )

Westerns are the best!  The best of the best is "Unforgiven"   There are a lot of hard life lessons in that movie... .

There are a lot of hard life lessons that get learned in a r/s with a pwBPD

When Gene Hackman is about to get shot... .he says "I don't deserve this... ."

Anyone want to remember what Eastwood says?  

"Deserve has nothing to do with it... .

To the other Eastwood fanatics out there... .yes I know I skipped a couple of words...  

Ceruleanblue,

You control your boundary and your body... not your husbands... .don't worry what he claims... .

With this in mind... .(and formflier's movie moment... .)... .How do you protect the relaxing weekend that you had planned... .?  

FF

[sweetheart]

Go will munny   

Hi CB,

What do you want to do about the vacation?

What are your options?

[formflier]

What do you want to do about the vacation?

Remember... .when you give your answer... .you are talking about you... .because that is who you control... .don't reference things outside your boundaries... .

It's ok to only think of yourself... .

FF

[Ceruleanblue]

I'm lost. I really can't think of anything. Just give me some ideas, ones that just involve me, and I'll say whether that feels like something I could live with or not.

If I pick something that only involves me, I'll be stuck entertaining people and putting up with a ruined vacation. I guess my second option that only involves ME, would be to just not go. Also another lose for me.

For me, going, and putting up, is NOT, NOT, NOT a good option. I do not need, nor want the added stress of company.

And from my viewpoint, requesting that we not have company on our vacation, IS controlling my environment, and ME. That just how I see it. I don't see it as controlling him. Just like if I invited someone along, of course it would affect him... .

[sweetheart]

Soo... .

The option I can hear which is solely about you is not going. I hear you describe this as a 'loose' for you, how so?

If you really are unable to tolerate a vacation with this couple, what other options are available to you?

I'm not trying to be provocative, I can't think of any either. You not going is the only bit of this you can control, if after saying that you don't want to vacation with this couple and you accept that your h does, not going is the only option left unless of course your husband uninvites them.

I'm not telling you what to do, but you are right, going or not going are the options. What would happen if you decided not to go CB?

[formflier]

 

Your hubby may or may not change his mind about company... that is within his boundaries.

You control you... .

FF

[Ceruleanblue]

Also, I get what you are saying about me caving in, I definitely do. Things have been so tense lately though, and I'm trying to calm things down.

So say I end up going, and these people turn up. I get what you are saying about if I tell him that was not cool, and go for a walk, that seems like the usual to him(and he's happy because he got his way). What other possible choices do I have to let him know it wasn't okay, but not have it escalate, or him treat it as the norm?

I just really, really don't want to deal with other people on our vacation. It seems HE is controlling ME, by including others to join us?

[sweetheart]

CB,

What I hear in your response I think, is it feels like you don't really have any choices and this is creating the possibility of having to go on this vacation with this couple. That as you say is familiar to you, caving in. It is I can hear also a frustrating and difficult position for you to be in, as though you are powerless, or your wants and needs don't matter.

Having to go and feeling powerless will I guess generate resentment in you which is something you are also familiar with? It is that resentment that often feeds the conflict in your marriage. This is a hard position to be in.

I understand how hard it is to do things differently, making a decision based on what you want, what you can control happening, is the essence of a boundary, but it's not something you're used to doing.

There are risks involved in making choices based on your wants.

Remember your h can only control you if you let him. 

[ptilda]

It helped me to see boundaries as me creating an environment where I can function. It's not to get him to not invite people on the trip, it's to ensure that you have an enjoyable time. His choice to invite people or not is his choice. You can simply say, "I need this trip to be a relaxing time where I can unwind, and that will not be the case if others join us, so if you need to go with other people, I will chose not to go with so that I can still relax." Without bitterness or sarcasm. Keep this upbeat.

Just an idea. Remember, boundaries are about what you need to function. Since A happens, you choose to respond with B in order to meet your needs.

[formflier]

  "I need this trip to be a relaxing time where I can unwind, and that will not be the case if others join us, so if you need to go with other people, I will chose not to go with so that I can still relax." Without bitterness or sarcasm. Keep this upbeat.

You can even say you would be happy to plan something with others in the future (leave that door open)

But... .this weekend is a "big deal" to you... .so that you can relax and recharge... .

You request that your husband comes with you... .(don't demand... ask him to follow through with original plan)

Don't get in big long debate... .a little clarification is fine.

FF

[fiveplus]

  UNFORGIVEN... .great movie.

[Notwendy]

CB- from what you have posted about your H, I don't think trying to discuss how you feel and what you want is likely to bring good results. It seems to me that your H enjoys the power of doing what he wants no matter what you want

I think it comes to you deciding the parameters for what you consider to be a vacation together. One of them could be making plans together. It seems your H made his own plans without considering you. IF this is not your idea of a vacation - and you have no control over him- you can choose not to go.

You may think this is a lose,but a week of peace and quiet and not giving in to a situation where you are not considered is not a lose. However your refusal to go is likely to anger him since he could see it as abandonment. You need to consider your safety when you decide what to do. Also do not make statements you can not keep. If you say you are not going as a bargaining chip or allow him to talk you into backing down he learns that your boundaries are negotiable and he can manipulate them.

So forgive my wild imagination but you have mentioned your husbands interest in a lot of sex on vacation - risky sex( in public) as well as causing you pain. I can't help but wonder why, if he wanted this kind of sex on vacation that he would include another couple. Perhaps he wants them to hear or see what you two are doing- or something more adventurous- I don't know if you are up to this- that's not my business but it seems odd to include another couple at a time when couples might want privacy.

[formflier]

UNFORGIVEN... .great movie.

I actually watched a bit of it today... .some of the highlights.

I can tell I like you already... .!   

FF

[formflier]

  you can choose not to go.

With him... .and his friends... .

But... .very... .VERY important that you go on a vacation and relax... .

Will it be the time with your hubby that you wanted... .nope... .but time alone to relax and recharge will be relaxing.

If your husband feels controlled and wants to moan about it... .

One time... .and one time only... .you can explain it to him that he has choices...

He can vacation with just you and have the relaxing "just the two of you time" that IS A BIG DEAL TO YOU

or you will go relax on your own and he can do his vacation the way he wants... you are not involved at that point... .

Just as he is not involved in your weekend plans.

If he is noncommittal... .and won't decided... .make sure that if you go with him... you keep the keys and have a way to go do your vacation... .if he brings vacation crashers without telling you.

FF

[OffRoad]

I get what she is saying. She made plans and someone else screwed them up. Sadly, that's what happens when you go with other people, especially ones with BPD. Lucky her, she gets the choice of NOT HAVING THE VACATION SHE PLANNED. That is THE only choice she has. Even if she explains it to her H, she has to deal with the aftermath (because you know it will happen). That STINKS!

Here's a suggestion, CB. Find another cabin, cancel the reservations at the original one, and go by yourself to your new location. You made the plans, you can cancel the plans. Roll up the doormat, and go relax in the setting you want by yourself. It's not what you want, but if you can't get what you want, at least get something for you. Because you deserve it.

[ptilda]

I get what she is saying. She made plans and someone else screwed them up. Sadly, that's what happens when you go with other people, especially ones with BPD. Lucky her, she gets the choice of NOT HAVING THE VACATION SHE PLANNED. That is THE only choice she has. Even if she explains it to her H, she has to deal with the aftermath (because you know it will happen). That STINKS!

Here's a suggestion, CB. Find another cabin, cancel the reservations at the original one, and go by yourself to your new location. You made the plans, you can cancel the plans. Roll up the doormat, and go relax in the setting you want by yourself. It's not what you want, but if you can't get what you want, at least get something for you. Because you deserve it.

Agreed

[formflier]

Absolutely!

If her hubby doesn't want to go with just her (which is his to control)... .then she can make her own plans at a cabin by herself (which is hers to control)

If she chooses... .she can deal with the fallout (him being mad afterwards)... .or she can decide she is not going to discuss it... .or discuss it in a limited fashion. 

It's up to her... .

FF

[123Phoebe]

Ceruleanblue, I've copied this quote from a thread posted 4 days ago:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=281218.msg12657879#msg12657879

I'm at a total loss as to what to do NOW. I'm not sure how we got here, as this started when things were going so well. And I'd like to take a break, but that seems to trigger him too. I suggested I take our coming vacation alone, and he wouldn't hear of it.

It does stink.  Not only would he not hear of it, he's invited others along.  Possibly, so he could enjoy a vacation with people who actually want to be with him?

Until you take yourself seriously, honor yourself, walk your talk, others won't take you seriously either.  If you'd like to take a break, take a break.

We are the other half of a relationship, there's cause and effect, human nature, consequences.

[Notwendy]

I don't expect your H to agree to you not coming on vacation with him and the couple. That would make him look bad. It also might ruin his agenda if he has one.


The biggest concern with you saying no is your safety if he is possibly violent when he is angered. You know your H and so I will leave this to your judgement.

I think this has been mentioned, but your H reminds me of Patricia Evans' book "Controlling People" . The theme being that a  controlling ( and it is a male in the book but could be either gender) man can set up his partner to be his "Teddy" - the soothing Teddy Bear who fulfills his wishes. As long as his wife's behavior is in alignment with his "Teddy" things are fine, but inevitably, no human matches the imaginary all loving caring all fulfilling wishes of an imaginary partner, and when "Teddy" is not being "Teddy" the man is enraged and hurt.

A very interesting read and explanation for this idea, as well as approaches to dealing with it.

[Ceruleanblue]

I've read Patricia Evans' book. Plus another she had that dealt with verbal abuse. Then I moved on to "Walking on Eggshells".

I said I'd like to take a break, but I didn't mean move out, or go on vacation alone. Would I rather vacation alone rather than entertain, or go with BPDh dysregulated, YES! He seems to have dealt with the situation I feel he created though, so maybe that's a good sign.

He says he told his friend that he told him we'd do another time, meaning he likely threw me under the bus so he didn't look bad. I've noticed people treating me differently after talking to BPDh. I don't think he constantly runs me down, but I think he's done it enough that it's damaged how some people feel towards me. He gives his bogus account, and why wouldn't they believe him? Most don't know him that well, or never get to see the dysregulated side.

I fear he's lying, and these people may still show up. He has a huge history of lying to me. My gut tells me though that he did tell his friend in a way that made me look bad, and now he can play the victim or act like I controlled the entire vacation. Yet again, it feels like it was a lose/lose.

I'm going to make the best of it though. I guess I handled it wrong, but I still fail to see a good choice in this. He's been grumpy already this morning as we got ready, and has been argumentative, hoping I'll take the bait. I didn't.

I just want this get away to be more good than bad. I think I am going to plan a getaway for myself soon. Just a weekend maybe. Even if it's just back home. I don't think I've been paying enough attention to me, and my feelings since he's been dysregulated. Sure, I do things I like, and have been having more me time, but it's been in spurts, and not a couple days to just decompress.

I'm just hoping for the best, and hoping he doesn't play the blame game on the trip. I managed to have a mostly good time last trip, and walk away when he was angry, I can do the same thing this time if need be.