A different kind of NC

[turbo squash]

I have read about all sorts of NC before. I have been trying to do some research lately to see if I could find a situation similar to mine, but I am having a difficult time finding anything.

Cliff notes: separated from wife for 2+ months. She has slowly been opening up to me more and more for the last month. She recently ended her affair and I have good reason to believe that she is telling the truth.

Last night, we made plans for the evening. Later on in the day, she said that she wasn't feeling well and so our plans turned in to me taking care of her while she was sick. (I know she wasn't faking because I took her temperature myself and felt her forehead.)

Her asking me to come over while she was sick was a big step for her. A few weeks ago we were spending time together, she started feeling sick, and she asked me to leave. Her asking me to come over while she was sick yesterday was also a big step for her because I had told her that I wanted to be the one to meet her needs not her affair partner.

While we were together, she says that she had talked to her therapist and that her therapist suggested that my wife cut both of us out of her life temporarily and see which one hurts worse. She suggested this because my wife has been incredibly indecisive over the last 2+ months.

My wife said that she was sorry and that she would understand if I wouldn't wait on her and that she would always love me no matter what I chose. She said that she wanted to go NC for the next 8 days. She said that she would probably try to text or call me but she asked me not to respond. She said that if things got really bad she would text 911 to let me know that I should respond but otherwise, I should not respond.

She said that she realized this seems crazy but that she knows herself and the issues that she has and that she knows that getting to feel the pain of losing me is the only way she will know if that pain is worse than the pain of being with me. There is pain from being with me because I hurt her feelings some times and she knows and accepts that I am not perfect. She said that this NC is her way of making herself commit 100% to me because this is the way she will come to know whether or not she has the desire to live without me.

I'm trying to stay level headed. I'm trying not to get my hopes up. I have not responded to her at all. In the last week she has done many things that I insisted upon. She has ended her affair. She has let me meet her needs more. She has responded to calls/texts much faster. She talks to me substantially more. She has set up a way to get a solid chunk of time without so much as seeing the affair partner. She claims to be trying to get herself to commit 100%. She allows much more physical contact and even initiated the make out session last night while completely sober. This is the first time since we were separated that she initiated while sober.

All of these things were things that I insisted were necessary for our marriage being repaired. I'm really happy to see that she is doing all of these things, but seeing all of them happen and not knowing what will happen yet is proving very difficult for me. I am having a hard time focusing on anything at all right now. Thoughts?

Edit: tried to make this less of a wall of text

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[ptilda]

I feel for you! I've suddenly flipped from "black" to "white" with everything being the fault of others (my family, my church, etc, not him, of course).

Our situation is different so I can't directly relate, but I did have ST for an extended period of time. I kept myself busy and when he would write me, I took my time answering. Now that he's checking up on me, I'm carefully working on being casual and have fun with our relationship. He asked if I was feeling better so I took a picture of myself making a funny face asking "do I look like I'm feeling better?" That was after answering him that I feel a lot better and thanking him profusely for his help.

Your situation is different. I can't advise on that, but I went through months of not really being able to respond to him. It's this not knowing that is difficult. But it will stabilize. Our divorce is still in the works and he swears he can't stop it since he filed. No problem. I won't fight him on that. Just looking ahead. If I can help him see the future, then there is a good chance his vision will include me. It's not a guarantee, but it's helpful.

No contact is good for her. She's testing you and herself. It's probably also good for you. It's hard to not let your feelings for someone control you. Congratulations on being strong. Remember, it's for BOTH of you that you're hanging in there!

[turbo squash]

No contact is good for her. She's testing you and herself. It's probably also good for you. It's hard to not let your feelings for someone control you. Congratulations on being strong. Remember, it's for BOTH of you that you're hanging in there!

I'm trying to hang in there, but it doesn't feel like it is good for me.

Once she ended her affair, she immediately started talking to me a whole lot more. I think that her slowly opening herself up more and more as we continue to talk significant portions every day was a lot easier for me to handle than just NC for a week and then if she feels like she can't live without me, we will get back together. If she feels like she can't live without me before that time, we will get back together.

Things just felt a lot more stable and straightforward as she was progressively getting closer and closer to me. This whole sudden all or nothing thing, (which ironically is what I was asking for... .I just didn't think that she would make her decision this way) is much more difficult.

[ptilda]

But it's a week. You know when it will end. I went multiple weeks with no end in sight. Not to minimize what you're feeling, but keep perspective. This is better because you know the ending point and you'll have answers.

In the meantime, work on YOU. Be a whole person by yourself. That's how you will have a healthy relationship.

[turbo squash]

But it's a week. You know when it will end. I went multiple weeks with no end in sight. Not to minimize what you're feeling, but keep perspective. This is better because you know the ending point and you'll have answers.

In the meantime, work on YOU. Be a whole person by yourself. That's how you will have a healthy relationship.

You're right. I need to do that.

I think I just hadn't properly confronted the idea of what it would be like if our marriage ended and it is freaking me out. I don't want it to end, but if she won't commit, trying to stay married to her would just end up making me more miserable.

[ptilda]

But it's a week. You know when it will end. I went multiple weeks with no end in sight. Not to minimize what you're feeling, but keep perspective. This is better because you know the ending point and you'll have answers.

In the meantime, work on YOU. Be a whole person by yourself. That's how you will have a healthy relationship.

You're right. I need to do that.

I think I just hadn't properly confronted the idea of what it would be like if our marriage ended and it is freaking me out. I don't want it to end, but if she won't commit, trying to stay married to her would just end up making me more miserable.

Absolutely! And the fact that she is giving you this week is as much of her testing you as it is her testing herself. Will you stay firm and do what you need to do? Give her space but then be there when the week is done?

It's never easy to face a marriage ending. I am reminded of that whenever I see my divorce papers. I don't know what's going to happen. But all I can do is what I can do . . . no more. You'll know either way that you gave it your all, and you can be proud of that. You'll know and she will know, that you truly loved her. She might not know now, but eventually she will know.

[turbo squash]

It's never easy to face a marriage ending. I am reminded of that whenever I see my divorce papers. I don't know what's going to happen. But all I can do is what I can do . . . no more. You'll know either way that you gave it your all, and you can be proud of that. You'll know and she will know, that you truly loved her. She might not know now, but eventually she will know.

I'm definitely trying to make sure that I don't have regrets.

She already knows that I love her. She stopped saying that I don't love her a couple of weeks ago. That is the crappy part about it all really. I had never imagined that a marriage could end while there is any love left at all. I always imagined that marriages end because people absolutely can't stand each other.

[ptilda]

Your marriage isn't over. Remember that. It's okay to mourn it, but you can keep a little space for hope too. This is YOUR marriage too. If you're not ready to let go, don't. Deal with it in your way. I'm a firm believer in prayer. I've seen prayer turn around what seemed to be a hopeless relationship!

[OffRoad]

While we were together, she says that she had talked to her therapist and that her therapist suggested that my wife cut both of us out of her life temporarily and see which one hurts worse. She suggested this because my wife has been incredibly indecisive over the last 2+ months.

I call BS. No therapist would say "see which one hurts worse". Not any responsible one.

My wife said that she was sorry and that she would understand if I wouldn't wait on her and that she would always love me no matter what I chose. She said that she wanted to go NC for the next 8 days. She said that she would probably try to text or call me but she asked me not to respond. She said that if things got really bad she would text 911 to let me know that I should respond but otherwise, I should not respond.

In my opinion, she is setting you up to fail. If you call , you didn't honor her wishes. If you don't call, you didn't care enough. I don't know the answer here.

She said that she realized this seems crazy but that she knows herself and the issues that she has and that she knows that getting to feel the pain of losing me is the only way she will know if that pain is worse than the pain of being with me. There is pain from being with me because I hurt her feelings some times and she knows and accepts that I am not perfect. She said that this NC is her way of making herself commit 100% to me because this is the way she will come to know whether or not she has the desire to live without me.

I don't buy it. Maybe someone else has some insight on this, but it just feels like a setup to me.

This is JMO. You will have to do what you need to do. I have no real suggestion. It sounds like standard BPD game playing, though.

[ptilda]

While we were together, she says that she had talked to her therapist and that her therapist suggested that my wife cut both of us out of her life temporarily and see which one hurts worse. She suggested this because my wife has been incredibly indecisive over the last 2+ months.

I call BS. No therapist would say "see which one hurts worse". Not any responsible one.

My wife said that she was sorry and that she would understand if I wouldn't wait on her and that she would always love me no matter what I chose. She said that she wanted to go NC for the next 8 days. She said that she would probably try to text or call me but she asked me not to respond. She said that if things got really bad she would text 911 to let me know that I should respond but otherwise, I should not respond.

In my opinion, she is setting you up to fail. If you call , you didn't honor her wishes. If you don't call, you didn't care enough. I don't know the answer here.

She said that she realized this seems crazy but that she knows herself and the issues that she has and that she knows that getting to feel the pain of losing me is the only way she will know if that pain is worse than the pain of being with me. There is pain from being with me because I hurt her feelings some times and she knows and accepts that I am not perfect. She said that this NC is her way of making herself commit 100% to me because this is the way she will come to know whether or not she has the desire to live without me.

I don't buy it. Maybe someone else has some insight on this, but it just feels like a setup to me.

This is JMO. You will have to do what you need to do. I have no real suggestion. It sounds like standard BPD game playing, though.

You might be right. H did this with the divorce. If I fight it, I'm trying to control him. If I sign it, I don't love him. How he's stuck and doesn't know what to do cause I called BS on it and said while it's not what I want and I believe that together we can fix things, if he makes that choice I won't fight him on it.

I don't know what to say about this if it's a game. Do you have the contact info for the therapist?

[turbo squash]

I call BS. No therapist would say "see which one hurts worse". Not any responsible one.

That wasn't the exact wording. I think she said to cut off contact with both and see which one she misses more.

In my opinion, she is setting you up to fail. If you call , you didn't honor her wishes. If you don't call, you didn't care enough. I don't know the answer here.

I've thought exactly that. I told her that it seemed like I was being set up for failure. She insisted that this was the only way for her to figure out a way to commit 100% to me.

I don't buy it. Maybe someone else has some insight on this, but it just feels like a setup to me.

I agree. What else can I do though at this point? Maybe this is her way of trying to end the marriage while still feeling good about herself.

I don't know what to say about this if it's a game. Do you have the contact info for the therapist?

I do not. I'm not going to try and figure it out either. I have previously decided that I would be done trying to chase her in another 12 days anyways. The deadline that she gave herself actually falls before my deadline and seems like it will work out just fine for me. I'll be able to start repairing my marriage or move forward with the divorce by the end of the month. It royally sucks, but it is out of my control.

[Sunfl0wer]

Excuse me for chiming in late, however, I am having a really hard time following this all.

She wants to separate to see if she "can't live without you?"

This seems so backwards to me.

If a person feels like they cannot live on their own... .  This screams to me: Clear indicator that that person is NOT ready for a r/s.  Certainly NOT the opposite.

It appears as though she has you in a position she is comfortable with: She is pulling away, putting you in a states of emotional vulnerability, however, she wants to set parameters on your behavior?  Even how you don't txt her back?

Does this make any sense?

Sound like she is leading and controlling this all with huge amounts of FOG!

What can you do to get out of the FOG?

Do you have a plan that is not at all dependent or contingent on any of her thoughts or behaviors? 

[turbo squash]

She wants to separate to see if she "can't live without you?"

This seems so backwards to me.

If a person feels like they cannot live on their own... . This screams to me: Clear indicator that that person is NOT ready for a r/s.  Certainly NOT the opposite.

It appears as though she has you in a position she is comfortable with: She is pulling away, putting you in a states of emotional vulnerability, however, she wants to set parameters on your behavior?  Even how you don't txt her back?

Does this make any sense?

Sound like she is leading and controlling this all with huge amounts of FOG!

What can you do to get out of the FOG?

Do you have a plan that is not at all dependent or contingent on any of her thoughts or behaviors?  

I have promised myself that I will give her until my semester starts back. That is less than two weeks. I determined that I would give it everything I had until then, but I won't jeopardize my education if she hasn't chosen to be with me by then. I have a plan for the next five years of my life that is not dependent on her choices.

I agree that it doesn't make sense. She said that she realized it seemed crazy but that she knows herself and that this is how she can commit. I'm actually doing a lot better today. At first when she was constantly texting me lots of gushy things, it was difficult, but it is a lot easier now because she isn't texting me as much and I am preparing myself for the reality where she doesn't choose to fix our marriage.

I realize that she has a lot of control. She knows that I want to work on the marriage, but she has not decided that she will yet. By being the one that is more interested, I immediately lose power.

I don't feel any obligation to her. I don't feel guilt for any of my actions. I do feel a little bit of fear though. I know myself and that I take a long time to grieve the end of a relationship. Our marriage ending would mean that it would take at least 2-3 years before I would be ready for another relationship and the idea of that really sucks. I know that I can handle it, I would just rather fix my marriage than end it.

EDIT:

Could all of this just be her testing to see how much control she can have over me? If I do go the full period without texting her, will she just realize that as long as she: says it nicely, says that her therapist told her to do it, and holds my hand, that I will eat up any crap she feeds me?

Is this just about her making sure she has control over me before she restarts the relationship?

I have read so much about affairs and fixing marriages after affairs/separations. As of a week ago, we have done everything that we were supposed to do to make getting back together a good idea... .but then she wants a week of not hearing from me at all? It just doesn't make any sense.

[Sunfl0wer]

I have promised myself that I will give her until my semester starts back. That is less than two weeks. I determined that I would give it everything I had until then, but I won't jeopardize my education if she hasn't chosen to be with me by then. I have a plan for the next five years of my life that is not dependent on her choices.

This all sounds excellent!  Good for you, I feel it can be quite hard to stay focused on ourselves when dealing with such tough stuff.  Sounds like you have set some clear limits on what you are willing to handle.

I agree that it doesn't make sense. She said that she realized it seemed crazy but that she knows herself and that this is how she can commit.

Do you believe this?  Do you believe that she knows herself and what she “needs” to facilitate her making a real commitment? 

The way she phrased it: “See if she cannot live without you”

It sounds like she is framing her choice as choosing the lesser of two evils.  This does not sound like the spirit of someone who is actually trying to be committed to a  r/s and choosing to pursue a r/s. 

It sounds to me like someone who doesn’t want to take responsibility for choosing the r/s or choosing to leave.  It seems like maybe her therapist was telling her she needs to be either all in or all out…that by her non committal, she cannot expect any result of security that she may be longing for... .and she may be expressing to T that she is having pain over both outcomes, therefore T may have asked her to consider this pain as a way to get her to reflect and decided to be committed to one option only…and she has found a loophole to even making a choice in any direction.

I'm actually doing a lot better today. At first when she was constantly texting me lots of gushy things, it was difficult, but it is a lot easier now because she isn't texting me as much and I am preparing myself for the reality where she doesn't choose to fix our marriage.

I realize that she has a lot of control. She knows that I want to work on the marriage, but she has not decided that she will yet. By being the one that is more interested, I immediately lose power.

I don't feel any obligation to her. I don't feel guilt for any of my actions. I do feel a little bit of fear though. I know myself and that I take a long time to grieve the end of a relationship. Our marriage ending would mean that it would take at least 2-3 years before I would be ready for another relationship and the idea of that really sucks. I know that I can handle it, I would just rather fix my marriage than end it.

I think it is natural to feel all things in this situation.  It is good though that you are being mindful about it and doing your best to not allow it to affect you or cause you to react when possible.  When I referred to FOG, it seems like I could have more accurately said that she appears to be attempting to control by use of FOG…thank you for helping me understand better.  It sounds as though you are considering all things thoughtfully.

EDIT:

Could all of this just be her testing to see how much control she can have over me? If I do go the full period without texting her, will she just realize that as long as she: says it nicely, says that her therapist told her to do it, and holds my hand, that I will eat up any crap she feeds me?

Is this just about her making sure she has control over me before she restarts the relationship?

I have read so much about affairs and fixing marriages after affairs/separations. As of a week ago, we have done everything that we were supposed to do to make getting back together a good idea... .but then she wants a week of not hearing from me at all? It just doesn't make any sense.

However, she does want the liberty to txt you without you replying... .until she gives the code.  This forces you to have to read her txts, hear her words and not respond/react to it. I believe she has found a way to relieve herself of any responsibility toward you, the r/s and your feelings….all while maintaining a sense of connection to you as she wishes…by allowing herself permission to txt you as she likes.

She is trying not for NC... .but for NC on you and "as she wishes" upon her.  This is NOT NC.

Allowing this dynamic to play out may not serve you well, idk.

This behavior is very onsided, you going along with it may be reinforcement of a r/s that is very onsided and expects to neglect your needs. 

Will you really be able to read emotionally charged txts by her and just click delete?

I wonder if it would be better for you to tell her if she wants NC, take it for the time she wants it…and you will ensure that you both have equal availability to have some NC space by blocking her communications until said date?

My observations have been that when non’s allow the partner to dominate with unequal balance, the pwBPD then returns but with less respect and more demands and neediness.  Instead of things being resolved…they have snowballed and worsened.

It appears that only with secure and clear boundaries that protect values, does the non gain respect and stability in these r/s.

There are clear guidelines somewhere around here on therapeutic separation, have you looked into those?

Can you come up with your own temporary separation agreement that you feel respects your own values?

Would she ever consider MC for setting parameters of a therapeutic separation?

(Excuse me if I’m out of the loop here and this has been discussed, feel free to use only what may be helpful.)

[turbo squash]

Do you believe this?  Do you believe that she knows herself and what she “needs” to facilitate her making a real commitment? 

The way she phrased it: “See if she cannot live without you”

It sounds like she is framing her choice as choosing the lesser of two evils.  This does not sound like the spirit of someone who is actually trying to be committed to a  r/s and choosing to pursue a r/s. 

It sounds to me like someone who doesn’t want to take responsibility for choosing the r/s or choosing to leave. 

I am inclined to believe that she is being serious. One part I left out is that she said that by me not talking to her for a little while, it will help her to completely let go of her affair partner. She said that she doesn't feel that it is fair to be with me as long as she has any shred of feeling for him. That could be a load of crap... .but she has been very generous to me in the past in a variety of ways and so while I could see her just toying with me a little more, I could also see her being sincere about wanting to rid herself of feelings for him before she starts back with me.

Allowing this dynamic to play out may not serve you well, idk.

This behavior is very onsided, you going along with it may be reinforcement of a r/s that is very onsided and expects to neglect your needs. 

Will you really be able to read emotionally charged txts by her and just click delete?

I wonder if it would be better for you to tell her if she wants NC, take it for the time she wants it…and you will ensure that you both have equal availability to have some NC space by blocking her communications until said date?

She has sent me a lot of emotionally charged messages. I have read them and I still haven't responded to her. Granted, it has only been two days, but the beginning is usually the worst. Since I already agreed to not contact her, I don't think it would be helpful to try to change the rules now.

My observations have been that when non’s allow the partner to dominate with unequal balance, the pwBPD then returns but with less respect and more demands and neediness.  Instead of things being resolved…they have snowballed and worsened.

It appears that only with secure and clear boundaries that protect values, does the non gain respect and stability in these r/s.

There are clear guidelines somewhere around here on therapeutic separation, have you looked into those?

Can you come up with your own temporary separation agreement that you feel respects your own values?

Would she ever consider MC for setting parameters of a therapeutic separation?

What I have read about separation in marriage before is that you should focus on reconnecting first and then working on problems once you have reconnected. She knows that there are some bare minimums that she would have to follow. She knows what I want out of the marital relationship. Would waiting to hit the boundaries home until after we reconnected be a bad idea?

She expressed some desire about going to MC to see if our marriage is capable of being saved, but then work got really crazy for her and has been crazy for her for the last month. (I have independent verification that it has been crazy.)

She said that she wants to do MC if we get back together.

[Sunfl0wer]

I am inclined to believe that she is being serious. One part I left out is that she said that by me not talking to her for a little while, it will help her to completely let go of her affair partner. She said that she doesn't feel that it is fair to be with me as long as she has any shred of feeling for him. That could be a load of crap... .but she has been very generous to me in the past in a variety of ways and so while I could see her just toying with me a little more, I could also see her being sincere about wanting to rid herself of feelings for him before she starts back with me.

I do not doubt her sincerity.  I believe she is doing what she feels may work for her, and that her feelings are very real to her.  What I doubt is her analysis, method, and reasoning skills.

She has sent me a lot of emotionally charged messages. I have read them and I still haven't responded to her. Granted, it has only been two days, but the beginning is usually the worst. Since I already agreed to not contact her, I don't think it would be helpful to try to change the rules now.

I did not realize that this had already occurred.  I thought you were still contemplating on whether or not to agree to her definition of NC.  I'm sorry for the misunderstanding!  The context of everything I wrote was with the idea that you had not yet begun this NC-like period!

What I have read about separation in marriage before is that you should focus on reconnecting first and then working on problems once you have reconnected. She knows that there are some bare minimums that she would have to follow. She knows what I want out of the marital relationship. Would waiting to hit the boundaries home until after we reconnected be a bad idea?

Sorry, I did not realize that you were already in a semi NC state! Probably best to give her the space she is requesting as any additional pressure will not likely be handled well.

[turbo squash]

I do not doubt her sincerity.  I believe she is doing what she feels may work for her, and that her feelings are very real to her.  What I doubt is her analysis, method, and reasoning skills.

I'm with you there too. I don't think her methods are all that great, but if she is sincere about trying to do what I asked, is it a terrible idea to take the effort now and work on the approach later?

Sorry, I did not realize that you were already in a semi NC state! Probably best to give her the space she is requesting as any additional pressure will not likely be handled well.

No need to apologize! I appreciate the comments and thoughts because it helps me to figure everything out. To me, it has felt like every response to a thread I start on this forum helps me simply because it helps me to figure out more about myself.

[Sunfl0wer]

I do not doubt her sincerity.  I believe she is doing what she feels may work for her, and that her feelings are very real to her.  What I doubt is her analysis, method, and reasoning skills.

I'm with you there too. I don't think her methods are all that great, but if she is sincere about trying to do what I asked, is it a terrible idea to take the effort now and work on the approach later?

Sorry, I did not realize that you were already in a semi NC state! Probably best to give her the space she is requesting as any additional pressure will not likely be handled well.

No need to apologize! I appreciate the comments and thoughts because it helps me to figure everything out. To me, it has felt like every response to a thread I start on this forum helps me simply because it helps me to figure out more about myself.

It sounds like you definitely should give her space right now, as you both have agreed  Yes, work on things later.

What did you ask that she do?  Is this what you mean... .

She has ended her affair. She has let me meet her needs more. She has responded to calls/texts much faster. She talks to me substantially more. She has set up a way to get a solid chunk of time without so much as seeing the affair partner. She claims to be trying to get herself to commit 100%. She allows much more physical contact and even initiated the make out session last night while completely sober. This is the first time since we were separated that she initiated while sober.

[turbo squash]

What did you ask that she do?  Is this what you mean... .

She has ended her affair. She has let me meet her needs more. She has responded to calls/texts much faster. She talks to me substantially more. She has set up a way to get a solid chunk of time without so much as seeing the affair partner. She claims to be trying to get herself to commit 100%. She allows much more physical contact and even initiated the make out session last night while completely sober. This is the first time since we were separated that she initiated while sober.

Yes these are a lot of the things that I have asked her to do. I asked her to let me meet her needs and when she was sick, she asked me to get a few things for her. I'm trying really hard not to get my hopes up though.