I want to have a child, too.

[maxsterling]

the problem is, *I* want to have a child, too.  And I feel like this is my last reasonable shot at it.  I'm tired of waiting, and I felt like I have been waiting for her to get her act together.  Me working a second job is about taking matters into my own hands, and getting us in better financial shape knowing I can no longer wait around for her to find a stable job.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Skip]

I know that there has been some debate about whether or not you should have a child and I wanted to clarify that our role, as members, is to support you in making this relationship all that it can be.  Having a child (or going childless) is a hug life decision and its a decision for you to make.

We don't want to overreach and tell you what to do or try to talk you into or out of doing this. We also don't want to tell you whether to stay or leave your relationship - that too is a choice only you hold the information to make.

But we do want to encourage you to move out of the "hand wringing mode" and into a problem solving one - at least 75% of your threads should be problem solving (its ok to vent, but we don't want to wallow).

My take on reading your file is that you have an emotionally volatile wife and you are whipped/worn down.  This is not a good thing.  Strength is what is needed in these relationships - least we become consumed.  How can you get a recharge might be a possible area to probe.

What do you think?  

What would it mean to move from a "surviving bearly" to a "thriving mode".  Can we focus on that?

[Notwendy]

I think it would be great to see Max move from surviving to thriving.

I also don't want to overstep into whether or not Max should have a child or what to do about his relationship.

What you brought up is a key point- to thrive or survive- because this is important to a child. I want to see Max take steps to take care of himself, so that he can take care of himself in the event that he does have a child because self care is important to raising a child- and in the event that he doesn't - he will have the tools to thrive. Taking care of ourselves emotionally affects our well being and all our relationships.

Children grow up and, believe it or not, the hardest part for me was not what happened when I was a child, but was watching my father emotionally worn down when I was an adult. However, his relationship was his own decision and path to work on and I was powerless to make his life better, no matter how much I loved him.

I know that Max and his wife are not my parents, and I am not Max jr, but from that perspective, I wish to see Max take steps towards thriving. I think it is the non who has to learn the tools to go in that direction. I know that doing this work has helped me.

As to the baby issue, the other point I wish to raise is the emotional situation of being an over 40 woman and the wish for a baby. This is not to rush Max. He may very well not be ready to be a father. However, the "maybe someday" situation could be tough for a women for whom the biological clock is ticking.

His post came as a surprise since the last two times his wife announced she was ovulating, he indicated he was not interested in a baby at the moment. I mentioned this in consideration of his wife's possible feelings. We are here to discuss our spouses and should be mindful that they have legitimate emotions too. She may be emotionally volatile, but this is an emotional situation regardless. Mentioning a future baby to her is likely to be taken very seriously, and his words are likely to raise feelings in her.

I'm replying to Skips post, but also to Max.

[Sunfl0wer]

the problem is, *I* want to have a child, too.  And I feel like this is my last reasonable shot at it.  I'm tired of waiting, and I felt like I have been waiting for her to get her act together.  Me working a second job is about taking matters into my own hands, and getting us in better financial shape knowing I can no longer wait around for her to find a stable job.

Humm…

What I hear in the above is that you are trying to take steps to take charge of your life and give yourself all of the options you possibly can, no matter what happens with your W.

I think you have been struggling with being realistic to the possibilities of things maybe working and maybe not working.

What I heard in the above is you making an attempt to take charge of your part of the relationship and your life, independent of anyone but you.  (which is a fantastic thing IMO)

I did not hear great focus on the child topic.  I just heard a man who wants all options available and is keeping all doors open, however, is still doing what you need to do no matter how things may change course….so that you can be prepared for all possible events.  Is this true?  Or am I reading into things?

I guess I assumed your statement was one that meant that you want a child, and you have other goals in life, so rather put all things on hold “waiting” for W to pull it off…you are doing what you need to do.  And if she is still with you, and conditions are good, then it will be with her.  However, if conditions are not right, then child won’t happen with W.  Also, you both may split, and at least you are still prepared for some goals you still want to pursue independent of this r/s, including the possibility of a child.

So I figured your action and words more of an intention to not sabotage any of your options.  While attempting to find a more independent Max. 

Am I close or way off?

[ptilda]

Max, I hear you. I'll be 40 this year and I have PCOS which requires medication to ensure that I ovulate. My eggs are healthy as of this minute, but that could change overnight (almost literally). I feel like I've been robbed. I want a baby almost more than anything else, but I am unwilling to bring a child into this world without its father (if I can help it). I know that my H would be an amazing father. But there are so many other issues. I'm broken over this.

[Cloudy Days]

I have a different take on all this. I am physically unable to have a child. I have often wondered if I was made this way, because of who I was going to choose to marry. Any child raised in my home would have some major mental problems. Not necessarily because my husband is abusive or would be abusive to a child. He cannot put a child first and that is something that is required when you have a baby. I almost see it as a blessing. A sad blessing as I feel I would have been an awesome mommy, but I feel my heart would break for any child I would have had with my husband. I love my husband dearly, and he has actually said the same thing. He wants a child but he knows it would not be good for him and he wouldn't want to be the person that screwed up someone's life like that. His father did it to him, and I think that took a lot of honesty on his part to admit it. I don't know if this helps you make any kind of decision. But the option to have children was taken off the table for me since I was born. I suppose I have accepted it, or made excuses for it saying it was a good thing. But I can only imagine having to deal with a child, while my husband is calling me a whore, or telling me he hates me or that he wants a divorce. I go back to my childhood and remember hearing the fighting and wishing my parents would divorce. Just take it all into consideration. 

For me, I always thought, if me and my husband don't work out of if he dies way before I do, I am going to adopt a couple foster children. I truly feel I could have a lot to offer them, not only living in a home like I have but I also grew up with alcohol parents. I am not pushing you in either way. Just giving you something to think about.

[sweetheart]

Max when we had our s7, even with my h's diagnosis of BPD we were two years into our relationship and most definitely thriving. The first six years of our relationship my husband was stable and well, I was happy, in love, we loved being parents, our plans were to have more children.

We went from thriving to surviving after a series of events, a miscarriage, h's P retired and we moved home. These events and the dysregulations that followed brought me to this forum. When I arrived here I was in chaos, scared, traumatised, and desperate. My dBPDh was out of control.

Fast forward two years and we are back to thriving again, but only just. The difference is that I now know what a diagnosis of low functioning BPD really means for my h, for me, for our s7. For us as a family.

It is with this realisation, increased awareness and a wise mind that I move forward with no plans to have more children, to leave if serious dysregulations start again, know that boundary enforcement works and that my emotional stability and well being is paramount if we are to continue to thrive as a family. This also means thriving without my husband if necessary.

Writing this was easy, but getting to the point where writing this was possible has been the hardest two years of my life.

[ptilda]

I have a different take on all this. I am physically unable to have a child. I have often wondered if I was made this way, because of who I was going to choose to marry. Any child raised in my home would have some major mental problems. Not necessarily because my husband is abusive or would be abusive to a child. He cannot put a child first and that is something that is required when you have a baby. I almost see it as a blessing. A sad blessing as I feel I would have been an awesome mommy, but I feel my heart would break for any child I would have had with my husband. I love my husband dearly, and he has actually said the same thing. He wants a child but he knows it would not be good for him and he wouldn't want to be the person that screwed up someone's life like that. His father did it to him, and I think that took a lot of honesty on his part to admit it. I don't know if this helps you make any kind of decision. But the option to have children was taken off the table for me since I was born. I suppose I have accepted it, or made excuses for it saying it was a good thing. But I can only imagine having to deal with a child, while my husband is calling me a whore, or telling me he hates me or that he wants a divorce. I go back to my childhood and remember hearing the fighting and wishing my parents would divorce. Just take it all into consideration. 

For me, I always thought, if me and my husband don't work out of if he dies way before I do, I am going to adopt a couple foster children. I truly feel I could have a lot to offer them, not only living in a home like I have but I also grew up with alcohol parents. I am not pushing you in either way. Just giving you something to think about.

I agree that it is important to provide the most stable, loving home possible, but I disagree that "Any child raised in my home would have some major mental problems." I grew up with a mentally ill mother and a largely absent father. It was difficult, but because I received spiritual grounding elsewhere early on, I was able to weather the storm and those hardships have made me not only a stronger person, but have made it easier for me to deal with my BPDh in a healthy way.

I applaud your idea of adopting foster children in the future. Certainly I would not recommend this in your current situation. But you have a great heart of giving and I hope you will be able to realize the joy of giving your love into a child or two!

[maxsterling]

It really is a difficult situation.  I can't begin to explore the "biological clock" that a woman may feel.  But i wish people would more openly discuss the man's "clock".  Here's my dilemma - I will be 40 in a few months.  Whether my sperm are healthy or not is irrelevant.  I feel that should I end this r/s, find someone new, learn to trust someone new, start all over, I will be in my mid-60s raising a high-schooler.  I don't want that.   Emotionally, I do feel this is my last chance.  And maybe that puts me in denial or in a selfish mode, to think my wife and I can do this one step at a time.  Yes, older men can father a child.  But if I think men who really think it through do feel an emotional hurdle in their late 30s and early 40s.  Its not the same as what women feel, but it's there. 

So here is where I am:

- My wife is mentally ill.  I can't expect things to be any better tomorrow than they are today.

- Right now, is my wife's mental illness such that I need to move on or let it stop me from doing what I want?  If having a family is a priority, I feel I need to make a decision to either end things now or move forward with trying to start a family.  I don't see waiting for her to improve as a smart option.  Perhaps coming to an agreement to not try is an option, but I think that decision would be easier after at least trying for awhile and being unsuccessful.

- Honestly, my biggest fear here is not my wife being an inadequate mother, but of her falling apart under the stress of trying.  Should we try and not be able, TONS of shame will come up for her, and I can only imagine how depressed she would be.  And could *I* handle that?

The reality is that nearly every red flag is waving right now.  She's not handling the stress of her new job well.  She is 100% needy on me.  Pregnancy and motherhood would be stress like she has never seen.  I really feel that if we try and are unsuccessful, or she has a miscarriage, she will completely fall apart. 

[KateCat]

How good to see you, Max!

You raise some really timely concerns about a man's biological clock. (Aren't scientists now thinking that "old dads" may be one reason for rising rates of autism?)

[sweetheart]

Max hello I can relate to the older parent bit, I had my s7, planned, but when I was 42, however without wishing to invalidate your concerns it's been great, really great. And if things had been more stable with my h over the last few years I would have had another two! The decision was taken by me not to have anymore children because my h became so unstable. I would have made that same decision with our first child if he had been in anyway unwell at the time. Me, my h and our son got six good stable years before he went off the rails. He is stable at the moment but it took a long time to get to this point. He also has an amazing treatment plan in place which makes all the difference to us as a family.

Your dilemma is a really serious one, and I'm going to add something else for you to consider. I live in the UK and as a result of my dBPDhs dysregulations over the last 2 1/2 we have had many markers raised with CPS and one full home assessment. This has been our personal experience, but I also worked as a sessional therapist for a Child and Family referral team before and as a therapist in mental health services. If I was your wife's P or T and she went ahead and had a child at the moment I would have serious concerns for the child's well-being and safety. There is every possibility because of your w's presentation over the last year that your child would be monitored from the off by CPS.

We don't talk very much on this board about the children living in high conflict families where BPD is present, but do you really believe that your w would ever be able to cope with a child? I'm not trying to be provocative, it's a serious question, given all you have been through since you got together.

For me in making the decision to have a child it's primarily about considering the possible impact on the child now and in the future. It's not really about me. Lots of us on here were raised in dysfunctional families, myself included, my s7 well-being is my line in the sand. He is my priority, I don't want him to have the upbringing I had or anything similar. If that meant leaving my h to ensure his emotional well-being that then that's ok.

I could in no way envisage the prospect of bringing a child into the conditions you and your w have been living in of late. I say this with a lot of sadness because I can hear how much having one means to you. And to your w. 

[KateCat]

max, I remember that when you decided to get married, you did it in a spirit of determination and celebration of commitment.

If what you're saying in this thread is that you have now decided to try to conceive a baby, I don't hear much beyond a sense of fatalism and resignation. It sounds so sad.

[Cloudy Days]

I think maybe one question that should be answered would be, if you do indeed have a child, are you going to be able to make decisions based on what is good for the child and not on what is good for your wife? Which may mean leaving your wife is she is too unstable to give your child a good enough home to thrive in. The child will need priority over her needs.

I agree that it is important to provide the most stable, loving home possible, but I disagree that "Any child raised in my home would have some major mental problems." I grew up with a mentally ill mother and a largely absent father. It was difficult, but because I received spiritual grounding elsewhere early on, I was able to weather the storm and those hardships have made me not only a stronger person, but have made it easier for me to deal with my BPDh in a healthy way.

I wasn't implying that any child raised in a PwBPD home would have major mental problems, that is simply not true and it can be done. I was just saying it as my truth.

[sweetheart]

I think maybe one question that should be answered would be, if you do indeed have a child, are you going to be able to make decisions based on what is good for the child and not on what is good for your wife? Which may mean leaving your wife is she is too unstable to give your child a good enough home to thrive in. The child will need priority over her needs.

Max this is a great point raised by Cloudy Days, because it really does become about what is good for the child.

And maybe the decision your considering now becomes about what is best for the child as things stand.

What would your advice to you be ?

[Cat Familiar]

So here is where I am:

- My wife is mentally ill.  I can't expect things to be any better tomorrow than they are today.

- Right now, is my wife's mental illness such that I need to move on or let it stop me from doing what I want?  If having a family is a priority, I feel I need to make a decision to either end things now or move forward with trying to start a family.  I don't see waiting for her to improve as a smart option.  Perhaps coming to an agreement to not try is an option, but I think that decision would be easier after at least trying for awhile and being unsuccessful.

- Honestly, my biggest fear here is not my wife being an inadequate mother, but of her falling apart under the stress of trying.  Should we try and not be able, TONS of shame will come up for her, and I can only imagine how depressed she would be.  And could *I* handle that?

The reality is that nearly every red flag is waving right now.  She's not handling the stress of her new job well.  She is 100% needy on me.  Pregnancy and motherhood would be stress like she has never seen.  I really feel that if we try and are unsuccessful, or she has a miscarriage, she will completely fall apart.  

I'm glad to see you back, Max. Quite frankly, I've worried about you when you've been absent for a few days--that's an indication of how unstable and potentially dangerous I think your wife is, a belief I've developed over time, reading your posts.

I empathize with you about wanting to have a family and I think you'd be a great father.

However, that said, please re-read what you've posted up above. Everything you've written is about starting a family. Nothing is about the 18 plus years of parenting with your wife.

With the likelihood of her being unable to hold down a job, you will be the sole breadwinner and at this point you are working two jobs to stay afloat financially. That means that your wife will be solely responsible for a baby for more than 40 hours a week. Maybe 60?

Those of us raised by mothers with BPD can list some unspeakable acts perpetuated upon us by our mothers, but that may not happen with your wife. It's a gamble though, you don't know how parenting might affect her emotional stability.

I see a lot of very vital 60 year olds and they say that 60 is the new 40. I know you're taking all this into consideration, but I hope you really think about the effect your wife's mental illness could have upon a child in her custody all day long.

[KateCat]

I think maybe one question that should be answered would be, if you do indeed have a child, are you going to be able to make decisions based on what is good for the child and not on what is good for your wife? Which may mean leaving your wife is she is too unstable to give your child a good enough home to thrive in. The child will need priority over her needs.

Wow, maybe this is what you are saying you are already prepared to do, max?

[formflier]

max, I remember that when you decided to get married, you did it in a spirit of determination and celebration of commitment.

If what you're saying in this thread is that you have now decided to try to conceive a baby, I don't hear much beyond a sense of fatalism and resignation. It sounds so sad.

I remember this as well... .I think I said something about it being an "all in move"... .and that I like that kind of decision making and determination.

That is the same kind of determination that will be needed. 

Max... .there is something to what KateCat is bringing up... .  Are you being carried along by the river?... .or do you have your paddle out and guiding your canoe.?.(there are other ways to express it... .)

Can you talk to us about how you "feel" about your decision making here?  Does it feel the same as the decision to get married... .or different... ?

Many of us on here had moms that were/are "difficult" or were full on diagnosed with BPD.  I describe my Mom as "high maintenance"... .with an unreasonable streak.  Now that I know abut tools... .I think she would have responded well to my Dad using tools.

Here is the thing... .Max knows what he is getting into.  He has tools... .my guess is that the responsibility of a baby would embolden him to focus more on tools... .  It is certainly a motivator for me.

I guess I'll say it another way... .there is nothing about Max that leads me to believe he would capitulate on care of a kid to appease a BPD wife.

I know others on here feel that their fathers abandoned them to their mother's whims... .I would be shocked it that was the outcome here...

Welcome back Max!  I can tell you have some heavy thinking to do... .and have been doing it.  I hope we can support you in doing that.

Any suggestions on how we can best support you?

FF

[Skip]

What would it mean to move from a "surviving bearly" to a "thriving mode".  

You are both struggling.

What can you do to be whole while in this relationship?

Isn't that the place to start.  Can you be lifted and strengthened in 6 months… how do you get there.

The second question is what can be done to make this a less traumatic lifestyle for her.

Break this down into smaller parts may help.  If you can't see light at the end of the tunnel after a concerted effort, it tell you something.

Child or no child, you are living in a state of high anxiety and you need a pathway out of it.  Its not going to come from her.  Its going to come from within.

Have you looked at this article…

https://bpdfamily.com/content/codependency-codependent-relationships

[maxsterling]

Well, I am definitely not "thriving".  As for whether I could reasonably protect a child from an abusive mother - yes. 

My gut tells me that despite her dysregulated state as of late, she has the capability to be a functional parent.  She can pull it together when she needs to.  Of course, I will have to give more than my 50%, but I am prepared for that.  I feel that any person could potentially succumb to the stresses of parenthood.  In the case of my wife, I would be going into it knowing the potential problems (eyes open) vs being surprised if she can't keep it together. 

How do I thrive?  I think I am in the right direction - get back to doing what I want/need to do for me.  Enforce boundaries.  There are definitely some major stresses right now, but I feel I am way ahead of where I was just a few months ago in feeling hopeful and happy with myself. 

[Skip]

Well, I am definitely not "thriving".  I think I am in the right direction - get back to doing what I want/need to do for me.  Enforce boundaries. 

Are there values/boundaries you have set for yourself (related to your actions, not hers)?

As for whether I could reasonably protect a child from an abusive mother - yes. 

BPD mom's are generally emotionally over dependent on their children - sometimes its physical abuse, but often it is emotional dependency on the child - neediness, clinginess.

[maxsterling]

Boundaries for myself are more about things I am not willing to give up.  Identity related stuff, hobbies, personal freedoms, etc. 

Non-BPD moms can also be needy and clingy.  Yes, destructive for a child in that environment, but I think the balance of the other parent could help here.  Suppose we have a child - the red flags I would be looking for is W not being able to meet the child's basic needs, and emotional or physical abuse.  I don't think the neediness/clinginess will go away, and would require me to provide balance in the family.  Abuse would of course require immediate action. 

[sweetheart]

It really is a difficult situation.  I can't begin to explore the "biological clock" that a woman may feel.  But i wish people would more openly discuss the man's "clock".  Here's my dilemma - I will be 40 in a few months.  Whether my sperm are healthy or not is irrelevant.  I feel that should I end this r/s, find someone new, learn to trust someone new, start all over, I will be in my mid-60s raising a high-schooler.  I don't want that.   Emotionally, I do feel this is my last chance.  And maybe that puts me in denial or in a selfish mode, to think that my wife and I can do this one step at a time.

The reality is that nearly every red flag is waving right now. She's not handling the stress of her new job well.  She is 100% needy on me.  Pregnancy and motherhood would be stress like she has never seen.  I really feel that if we try and are unsuccessful, or she has a miscarriage, she will completely fall apart. 

Max this post was written by you about four hours ago and I wonder if you can see the disparity between this and your recent post, where you write that you are 'hopeful and happy' and that your wife 'has the capability to be a functional parent'?

The importance of Skips question to you about how you become whole again is highlighted for me by the above emotional disconnect, how do you understand the contradictions in what you have written?

[Skip]

Boundaries for myself are more about things I am not willing to give up.  Identity related stuff, hobbies, personal freedoms, etc.  

I'm talking about you.  Things like, not over reaching into her emotional state of mind and welcoming it to dominate your own sense of well being?

Yes, destructive for a child in that environment, but I think the balance of the other parent could help here.  Suppose we have a child - the red flags I would be looking for is W not being able to meet the child's basic needs, and emotional or physical abuse.  

You might want to spend time on the parenting board the the Coping/Healing board to get a mental image of what you will likely be working with.  Often its not a mom burning cigarettes on her child - its a mom that helicopters over the child so that they don't develop a well differentiated sense of self. Dad gets pushed away as he threatens the bond. Might not sound bad - but read the Healing /Coping board to connect with the reality of it.  You really need to have a handle on this going in so that you can be proactive in keeping the family on track.  And no, this is not the typical mom-child clinginess.

I don't think the neediness/clinginess will go away, and would require me to provide balance in the family.  Abuse would of course require immediate action.  

Are you balancing yourself right now?  

I'm not discouraging you from having a child, but I am saying don't enter a marathon trained to run a 440 sprint relay.

Get some sweat paints on!  Have you thought of taking a parenting class together - try to find one for people with "emotional issues" (be careful how you sell this).

[OffRoad]

I am also an older parent. It's been a joy and, IMO, keeps me young.

That aside, there are so many things to consider, BPD or not.

Postpartum depression is a very real possibility. How would you feel if you had a child, and the PPD was so bad your wife did something terrible to your child? It's something that every family should consider, but most families won't have a problem getting the mother to the Dr and on meds if she needs them. Can you say the same for your W?

You get little to no sleep for at least 8 weeks, for my second it was 8 months. How does lack of sleep affect both of you?

If you are working two jobs and then need to come home and be on baby duty immediately, can you handle that? On top of no sleep?

What if your child ends up with BPD? Or some other mental or physical difference that requires a lot of care? Can your W handle that?

What if she gets so attached to the child that she can't let it go? To school, to parties, anywhere?

When life is perfect, raising children can still be a challenge. When it isn't perfect, life is hell on wheels as I can attest to with two children who have dyslexia and dysgraphia. There were some days I just wanted to sit down and cry, but that was not an option. (since BPD H was usually nowhere to be found when I needed help with the school system, or any day to day activities).

Definitely do some research and see what kinds of issues come up in a BPD household. Those will be in addition to a normal family life. Then figure out if that is for you. For however many years you have your child. It could be 18, 21 or forever.

[formflier]

 

Luckily... .IMO... there is enough press out there that seems to say post partum depression is "normal" and there is not much stigma.

Plus... .with the right prep work... she could hopefully see this as normal... to follow up with providers about it.

I've had 8 kids... .ummm... correction... .my wife has had 8 kids... .I assisted...  

Anyway... PPD was an issue with one.  Sure there were some baby blues with all of them... .but there was one where we went in for visit with dr to discuss PPD. 

I forget exactly how it was handled... .but it resolved in few weeks.  My wife didn't give any pushback... .and seemed relieved to try and go in and deal with it.  But... she had been through several pregnancies of being talked to about what to do if you feel it.

And she admitted she felt it... and it was not at all like the "baby blues... "

I will be in my 60s when my youngest is still a teenager... .my hope is it keeps me young.

I definitely don't have the energy that I did to parent when I was in my 20s... .but I think I make up for that by being wiser... .calmer... .etc etc... due to age and experience.

At least that is what I tell myself...

FF

[Cat Familiar]

  As for whether I could reasonably protect a child from an abusive mother - yes. 

My gut tells me that despite her dysregulated state as of late, she has the capability to be a functional parent.  She can pull it together when she needs to.  Of course, I will have to give more than my 50%, but I am prepared for that.  I feel that any person could potentially succumb to the stresses of parenthood.  In the case of my wife, I would be going into it knowing the potential problems (eyes open) vs being surprised if she can't keep it together.  

You cannot supervise your wife around your child and at the same time go to work. My father was a non and my mother BPD and I know he tried to protect me when I was young. But I still recall some of the things my mother did to me while he was at work. There was no way he could have intervened and protected me.

[Notwendy]

Max, I am not going to predict the future for that possible child, or you, or your wife.

We don't require licenses to become parents, nor do we have to pass some competency tests. Children are born into the best and the worst of circumstances, but it isn't up to us to decide who has a child. It's your right, your choice,  and your responsibility.

As to your age, none of us can predict the future, how you will feel as an older adult. However one thing we can do is self care which is to eat right, exercise, and work to be as mentally healthy as possible.

FF mentioned this: "there is nothing about Max that leads me to believe he would capitulate on care of a kid to appease a BPD wife."

But I see this a bit differently. I agree that you have the desire and will to take care of a child with all your heart but , there IS something about Max that leads me to believe he might capitulate on the care of a kid to appease a BPD wife

That something is if you capitulate on the care of yourself to appease a BPD wife.

My wish for you, Max, is- child or no child, that you continue to do the work to learn to love and value yourself and take care of yourself- because that is the skill you need to be able to take care of anyone else. My wish is for you to be able to stand up for your boundaries no matter what emotional state your wife is in, because that is the skill you need to be able to take a stand for your child.

As they say on a plane- "put your oxygen mask on first"

Your possible child will be watching you from the time he or she is born. You will influence that child more from what you do than what you say. If you can be a role model for self care and self value, that would be a gift to your child. If you role model co-dependency, then that will be your child's legacy.

The steps you have taken so far to start taking care of yourself, and being able to hold on to your boundaries, and not capitulate to something that violates them are (IMHO)one of the best things you can do if there ever is a child in your future. This is not necessarily a milestone to achieve as much as a course of growth. They say "progress, not perfection" and that's a pretty good description. So, there isn't a point to be at that determines if or if not you  bring a child into the world. That's between you, your wife, and the Maker of the universe.

My wish is for you to use your desire to have a child to motivate you to take care of you.

[Grey Kitty]

Right now, is my wife's mental illness such that I need to move on or let it stop me from doing what I want?  If having a family is a priority, I feel I need to make a decision to either end things now or move forward with trying to start a family.  I don't see waiting for her to improve as a smart option.

Max, I think this is a good way to frame your question here.

Start with how important a priority it is for you to have children (biologically yours or otherwise).

If you really truly want this, then work out how to get there.

You have concluded that your wife is not likely to improve much upon having children, nor is she likely to improve quickly on her current trajectory.

So how would raising children with her as she is now look for you? Is that something you can do? Is it something you want to do?

Geez, man, these are tough questions to ponder. Working on what you need to do in order to thrive personally is critical for you... .among other reasons, so you have the strength to look at hard questions.

[myself]

Working on what you need to do in order to thrive personally is critical for you... .

It will also help you really be there for the kid(s) in better ways.

[Wrongturn1]

As for whether I could reasonably protect a child from an abusive mother - yes. 

Max: I don't comment on many of your threads, but I do follow them and am commenting here because I care about you and your potential child.    So please hear what I have to say in that spirit.

You are overestimating your abilities to protect a child here.  Even if you manage to protect the child from the same physical abuse you've experienced with your wife, there's simply no way you can protect a child from the emotional abuse and psychological damage caused by a BPD mother. 

It's not possible for you to be present to witness every interaction between your wife and child, and even if you are there, you can't actually control everything your wife is doing, not doing, saying, or not saying... .all of which has an influence on your child that can be severely damaging. 

I don't ever recall a member on these boards saying "my mom was BPD, but my dad managed to keep her under control, so she was not able to psychologically harm me."  That's just not how it works because the disorder is so pervasive.

Your wife's emotional state has not been on an upward trajectory since you got married.  I've never heard a member of these boards saying that having a child brought an improvement in their spouse's condition... .in fact, it often worsens the condition. 

One final thought, if you have a child and implement all the same boundary protections for the child that you have been implementing for yourself, is that really good enough?  Imagine this: it's a seemingly normal day; the three of you are having breakfast; your child spills his/her milk; your wife starts to get abusive; enforcing a boundary around abuse, you grab up your child and run with him/her into your "safe room", quickly locking the door behind you, your wife screaming at the top of her lungs... .she continues to scream for hours and break things on the other side of the door while the child is confused and crying.  Is this a healthy environment for the child?  Why would anyone want to subject a child to a home like this?