Too much negativity

[sempervivum]

With all respect and good will for understanding the mechanisms of my BP, I feel this is too much.

I get the picture why is he negative (uncapable of coping with some difficult situations at work, then his total family background and feeling incapable and constant urge to prove his ability and so on ... .).

I tried and I try not to JADE, to be at a distance, to be cool, not to make his wishes come true, ... .but he simply bursts with negativity and snide remarks, provokes, practises push/pull at least 20 times a day.

Nothing! Acts like wounded beast and bites. Nothing is good enough for him.

And yes, he lacks intimacy. Our sex life could be called satisfactory - in times when he acts normal. In those other times there is no sex life at all, because I simply feel estranged, I see him as a boss or an army officer. Some people can sleep with their bosses, I can´t!

When he is good, I somehow manage to understand everything and relax.

Right now I want to pour a bucket of cold water over him, pack my suitcases and leave.

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[sweetheart]

Hi sempervivum,

I'm hearing this behaviour from your SO is familiar to you and yet at the moment it's just too much. Your post highlights many typical behaviours with BPD that I know all too well and I can relate to those days where I just to run screaming down the road

Has anything happened more than usual that has triggered your SO? What do you find works best for you when you feel overwhelmed in this way, what's worked before? 

[townhouse]

Your post sempervivum could have been written word for word by me.

We wait for the return to normal. Yet I feel more closed off each time.

[ptilda]

I relate completely! Our current separation might have saved our marriage. I was on the verge of insanity myself!

[sempervivum]

Being in the depths of negativity I did not feel like writing at all. Now we are in calmer waters and I can give my report what and why did it happen.

It is the big issue of vacation as number one and having pleasure as number two.

Vacation: same story every year. My husband is the "main horse" in his small company and main victim too. He always gets his vacation as last. When they plan vacations, he is excluded as the person of vital interest, because nobody can (read: will)  do the job as he does. So he gets his vacation schedule as the last one. This year he was told three days in advance when he can go and he threw the ball of responsibility for finding some 5-7 days accomodation on the coast.

I know well what terms do I have to look (price, type of accommodation, availability of parking place and so on... .) and of course I could not find a match in such a short term and for the time he was free. Of course, he told me I was incapable of doing that, so I was the main reason why we did not go anywhere.

This was more tragic than usual, because of the said "number two". In previous years he was very rigid about going anywhere and having fun at all. Family meetings, parties, weddings with him were more like mourning. I realized very quickly that he had a habit of punishing him and the rest of us whenever he/we had really good fun. Punishment was in form of bad mood, criticizing and all usual stuff of a BP.

This changed for the better in the last couple of years, so this year´s failure to have real vacation was a good reason for another drama.

First we had a discussion about failed holidays, where I could not kep quiet about being accused as incapable and lazy. After my reaction he told me I am nagging. Then I had enough, but in a calm manner, I said: OK, then I will not nag at all. This resulted in a variation of a silent treatment, not completely silent, but lacking any closeness.  I was very distant and I talked to him only to agree some everyday situations - no discussions about anything, no commentig his occasional attempts to start some conversation. I must say he was very polite, too.

I am even bold enough to assume HE was walking on eggshells for a change. At least it appeared so.

Now he is calm and we function as husband and wife. He is happy for that. I wonder if he knows he will fall overboard again one day or the other. I know he will and I am gathering my knowledge I gained from this situation. I know I learn something new every time this happens: about me and about him. Again, I wonder if he learns something.

[Ceruleanblue]

What I always wonder is how BPDh can just get over or forget the hateful things he's done or said to me, and he just expects it to have done no damage. He can say something vile and hateful, then expect sex that night. I can't do that. I don't hold grudges long term like he does, but I don't instantly do from hot to cold, or cold to hot. I don't know how he does that.

He'll become all happy and fine sometimes too(rarely), and he just acts all crappy that I act shell shocked and hesitant, or distant. Heck, I'm afraid of where they next out of the blue slam will be, how does that inspire comfort?

Your initial post sounded so much like how I feel, and what I deal with, emotion wise.

[sempervivum]

Exactly! He leaves house early in the morning totally and extremely unhappy or angry about something minor to me and major to him (=somebody left the lights on in the bathroom last night), capable of creating a disastrous atmosphere about that.

Makes me upset and unfit to work (try to teach the children when Grumpy spoiled your day), then I spot his call during the break, decide to call back during the next break and I hear Happy on the other side of the line asking what do I need from the supermarket.

It is really a rollercoaster.

I still don´t know are we  to be praised or laughed at?

[JQ]

 sempervivum  

When I saw the title of your thread I had to read it ... .WOW i can feel for you so much. I spent 15 years in a marriage from the very beginning was full of her negativity. I knew she had a bad previous marriage so I went the extra mile to compliment her on her appearance because she is a very beautiful woman. I encouraged her constantly about her job that she would have. I encourage her in her theatre pursuits constantly & bragging about her skills to coworkers, neighbors. 15 years I did this ... .it was challenging towards the end. I would quote Oddball from the movie Kelly's Hero's movie ... ."what's with all the negative waves" "Always with the negative waves" "can't you say something positive and righteous once in awhile".  That & more and so much more.

The last 18 months we were separated and when I came back to the house I felt this incredible amount of dread but couldn't put my finger on it when I drove into the driveway. During marriage counseling I told the doc how I was impressed with her work, how her bosses appreciated her, the amazing raises, bonuses, gifts they would give her. How well she did in her acting and how I bragged on her, brought our friends to see her, nothing but support from day one.  Then she says a negative comment and I said that's it!  Your're constantly negative about everything & I can't do it anymore, it's mentally draining and I can't devote that much energy to reassuring you about everything. At which point she threw out the comment. "I know I'm a negative person, it's who I am, you're trying to change me!" ... .WHAT THE HELL AM I SUPPOSE TO SAY TO THAT?  Then I told the doc, I was told that people that are unhappy in their life or their situation are constantly negative and he said your right. She filed for divorce shortly after that. I felt that 15 years was almost for nothing ... .in addition like you there was no sex life ... .pretty much absent for the last 5 years.  The other thing she said was, "I'm not the person you married, I am the person you married but it's not who I really am. I was the person you wanted me to be and not who I wanted to be." What the heck?  So you've been pretending or acting for 15 years? Well then ... .at the point I knew it was time to move on and to be with someone who was honest with me, and themselves and want to enjoy life together laughing all the way.

I knew as hard as I tried I wasn't going to get any further in this life with her as my wife ... .she was going to remain negative & lets face it, for 15 years she pretended to be someone she really wasn't and I felt lied too. So I can understand where you're coming from.

JQ

[sempervivum]

Probably like many of us nons here I lived rather long in denial. You know: Yes, this might be it, but no, not for sure. OR: This doesn´t happen to me.

When I finally made certain I was living in denial, it was very difficult and still is to accept that. I had to rearrange my expectations and strategies.

What I know now and I can tell everyone and myself in the mirror is: Yes, he is a BP and he will always remain.

My decision is to stay, that is why I am on staying board. The reason for staying are partial changes in him that were provoked by my setting boundaries and me seeing my own ability to cope with his personality, though with a lot of effort.

My decision, my responsibility and I don´t blame anyone else. If it were different, I would say quit.

I know he is limited in his change. What I want to achieve is to improve myself even more

I see all this is very complicated for him, too. When he is unhappy, he rages, complains and criticizes.

When he recovers, he is extremely happy to be so. Though it is hard to understand why doesn´t he talk about his bad days or why there is no open apology, I stay. This is the thing he cannot control and it is obvious that he doesn´t like his dark part.

Maybe it can be explained with weighing. There is his disorder on one side of the scale and being normal on the other. Normality is still heavier.

That is why I think this site is very good. I stumbled upon many sites dealing with BPD, but none of them offers such direct exchange of experiences on constant basis.

This is my therapy  for bad days. 

[Jack_50]

Though it is hard to understand why doesn´t he talk about his bad days or why there is no open apology, I stay.

My idea: he is afraid to admit fault.

A man usually wants to be his wife's hero, and it can thus be extremely hard to admit that he failed in something (made a mistake).  His self-worth depends on it, and a man tries to avoid looking weak at all costs (it's instinct, I had to overcome it too).

And thus the problem festers on, and he ends up like this.

Also: men usually grow up with an aversion from emotions, again to not look weak in front of other men. Hence he does not know how to express his emotions in calm and straight way.

Jack

[sempervivum]

Thank you for your comment. Very useful from a man´s angle. 

Still it leaves a sort of bad taste when he has such fears and limitations after 24 years together and everything we went through. We both have nothing to prove to each other, just confirm our love in everyday life.

[Jack_50]

Still it leaves a sort of bad taste when he has such fears and limitations after 24 years together and everything we went through. We both have nothing to prove to each other, just confirm our love in everyday life.

I know. He just never learned that it's ok to make mistakes.

He is aware that he makes them, but does not have enough experience/information to know how to avoid them (esp. the emotional ones). Leading to lower self-esteem and frustration.

He is currently stuck in his frustration, and his disregulation is when the bucket overflows.

One option is to reassure him that it is ok to make mistakes, that you want to be with him anyway.  It will take pressure off him.

Jack

[JQ]

Semper,

Jack-50 makes an excellent point from the perspective from a man. I've had this same discussion ... .anyone person has so many facets to them like a cut diamond and people need to keep that in mind.

Example to echo what Jack is talking about. From birth the male child is taught to be tough & not show emotion, or cry.  From the time a male child is able to walk he is taught that if he falls and scrapes his knee to get up & walk if off. If there isn't a bone showing your good to go, Dad or mom will spit on it, wipe it off and tell them to go play. This is reenforced time and time again through grade school, junior high, high school, be tough, be the bread winner, protect your family from all that would do harm to them. Never show anyone that you're weak. We're taught not to talk about our feelings.

On the opposite side of the we have the female child who is taught to wear dresses, shiny shoes, ribbons in the hair. From the time she able to walk, when she falls she is caught in mid air so she doesn't hit the floor / ground. If she does, then she gets all kinds of attention from washing the wound, blowing on the "boo boo" when you put on a antiseptic & finally a bad aid. Again this is reenforced through out their life, manny pedicures, getting their hair done, dresses for the prom etc.  Look for a strong man to protect you & be a good provider, a good strong man to be a good father.

So in a way we are set up for failure to show emotion, to share what we feel.  Never admit fault or failure and have the mentality that we would rather die then roll over and quit on the family. Jack is spot on with is comments. So add to that the severe behavioral disabilities of a male who has BPD and you have the Mt. Everest of issues to try to over come.

And as far as living in denial ... .probably ... .it should of been over long ago for me & my ex-wife. I heard the other day here in the forums that someones therapist said she was emotionally divorced already ... .it was a good way to describe the last few years ... .I just have the need to never quit, never give up. But when she tells you, "I'm not the person you married, I am, but it's not who I am, I was who you wanted me to be, not who I wanted to be". So what the hell are you suppose to say to that?  You move on, you can't say every puppy in the pound I learned. I don't need her to make myself happy ... .I miss her ... .but more as buddy to pal around with. Not as a person who should be my partner in life ... .towards the end of things it was like kissing my sister ... .all desire had left my body. That was a 15 year learning lesson.

I commend you, I admire you for deciding to stay and work on things. Know that even if your s/o doesn't want to go to therapy, chances are you're going to need it. I truly wish you the peace & strength for the future ahead. I'm happy that you also found a place here to come talk, vent, and bounce ideas off of people who are were you are. It takes a strong person to reach out for help ... .more then people give them credit for.   

JQ

[sempervivum]

Jack and JQ: 

I am surely doing my share of assuring him that he can have full confidence in me, that I am not the woman who threatens or questions her husband´s manliness, but sometimes it is not enough. I guess I have to live with it.This question of men (not) showing emotions bothers even so called normal couples, but in our borderline shaded world it gets another meaning.

My modest opinion is that men should not fear showing some emotions in situations where it is quite normal. Of course, they should not turn into overemotional caricatures, but such behavior looks silly even or especially on a woman.

My ideal goal (is it achievable, time will tell) is to accept his borderline traits as something not quite pleasant but a thing that will not spoil my day. I want to have my own personal umbrella that will use its purpose in times when he starts to dysregulate. I wish myself luck.

[Jack_50]

Jack and JQ: 

I am surely doing my share of assuring him that he can have full confidence in me, that I am not the woman who threatens or questions her husband´s manliness, but sometimes it is not enough. I guess I have to live with it.

You are doing what you can   

This question of men (not) showing emotions bothers even so called normal couples, but in our borderline shaded world it gets another meaning.

My modest opinion is that men should not fear showing some emotions in situations where it is quite normal. Of course, they should not turn into overemotional caricatures, but such behavior looks silly even or especially on a woman.

Showing emotions is not really "natural" for most men.  Some men have never learned how to do that, and a lot are even not familiar with what is going on inside of them; they  feel frustration coming up, but have no idea why.  Creating a feeling of powerlessness, and increasing the frustration even more.

This issue is not limited to men only, but since we grew up in the toughness context, we are much more prone to end up in this situation.

My ideal goal (is it achievable, time will tell) is to accept his borderline traits as something not quite pleasant but a thing that will not spoil my day. I want to have my own personal umbrella that will use its purpose in times when he starts to dysregulate. I wish myself luck.

You're doing the right thing (protecting yourself from his overreactions).  Only when you are safe, are you able to see things in a clear perspective.  Next is to create a strategy.

This might give you a clue : I think that the core issue is that he has to know and accept himself, with all his faults.

And love himself for who he is.

And that is surprisingly hard for most people... .

[Cat Familiar]

I hear you, sempervivum, it's so unpleasant to be around a spouse who dwells in negativity. For so many men, the only suitable expression of emotion seems to be on the anger continuum.

My husband is an exception to this rule. Perhaps it's due to growing up in a multitude of countries during his formative years. Not only do I get the pissed off husband, I get the drama queen husband, the whiny, poor me, nobody likes me husband and a few other variations.

I used to think it was my job to try and help him, but now my strategy is to emotionally disengage and just let the drama play out without adding to it or attempting to control it.

I sometimes wish that I had a husband with whom I could have a healthy normal relationship, but that's not him. So I have to get my normal contact from other people and let him be. He makes up for it in other ways, so I stay.