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Author Topic: "I'm not doing this to hurt you, why are you upset?" Help me work through this  (Read 1103 times)
waverider
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« Reply #30 on: August 16, 2015, 05:52:49 PM »

Very high motivators for BPD behaviors=impulse, need and immediate gratification

Very low motivators for BPD=Obligation and responsibility

Behavioral change wont come from the latter only the former. Boundaries block a need, compliance is the only way to get this need met. Hence the explosion when that need is blocked. His choice will be based not on what is the responsible thing to do, but which is the stronger need pull, being with you, or freedom to be with others.

In the meantime he will feel deprived by not being allowed to have both needs met. As you are forcing this choice it is your fault.

In his mind him being with others is his business and nothing to do with you. He sees you as interfering with his needs and instant gratification.

Obviously in the bigger long term picture this type of behavior cannot have a good result, but he can't read that reality as todays instant gratification is clouding that vision.

This is why it is important for us nons to get out of the passenger seat and take the wheel before our life goes over a cliff
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« Reply #31 on: August 16, 2015, 06:17:36 PM »

This is why it is important for us nons to get out of the passenger seat and take the wheel before our life goes over a cliff

I wish there was a "like" button for this.
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« Reply #32 on: August 16, 2015, 07:21:47 PM »

Patient, do you ever date between times of trying to sort it out with your BPD guy? I'm not saying I am desperate to date. In fact, I feel so depleted, I feel awful at the thought of it.

When I'm not actively exploring a committed r/s with him, and if I met someone I found interesting and attractive, yes, for sure, I'd pursue that.  I haven't met anyone I find worth sticking with, but I've been in early stages of exploring with a few other men over the past few years.  I wish I found more men compelling.  It was easier when I was 25 and most people I like enough to pursue in that way were still either available or about to be available.  Now I'm twice that age and it's not that way anymore.

But the point is -- heck yeah, if I met someone else, while this man who's been saying no to me all this time keeps saying no, you bet, I'd head in another direction.  I do want to be happy.  If it can be with him, I trust he'll make that apparent ... .
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« Reply #33 on: August 16, 2015, 07:46:07 PM »

I am running into a lot of internal resistence. Mainly in the form of my own pain and anger. I feel that I am not in control of myself. I see other people here on this site and in comparison, I seem to be failing in everything. I end up sitting here weeping while trying to think I could even be worth enough to him for him to change his actions.

I realize other people in my life love me. So it isn't that I feel no one will or does love me.

Probably anyone reading this has the impulse to remind me that this isn't about my value, but about his BPD thinking. 

In the last week alone he has re inflicted all of the traumas on me that he took years to do prior. I am not feeling so good.

If it is not about me, then why?

I could almost feel some hope, if I actually believed that depriving him of my presence actually makes any difference. The relationship we have had is full of conflict. How could he possibly care really if I am not around. Most of the last 3 months has been him retaliating by giving me silent treatment. What is there for him to miss? How can he miss me at all when for 3 months he has been sitting there looking at me and getting nothing anyway, except upset from me with each blow I take?

How could I even matter at this point? I don't understand why he simply doesn't go away on his own instead of trying to hold me here like an insect on a pin while he tears my mental and emotional state to shreds. Some days I feel like he is trying to drive me to suicide. I have certainly had those moments.
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« Reply #34 on: August 16, 2015, 07:58:35 PM »

Yes. I realize this boundry of no contact with him while he acts/thinks this way is how I protect myself from that. I still feel bad, though. :/
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« Reply #35 on: August 16, 2015, 08:17:25 PM »

Hope for you

Hope for the relationship.

The former is not dependent on the later. The former is imperative, the latter is optional.

What changes if you send a clear message that you are OK to walk away from it, compared to him putting you down? Simple he losses control of the situation. Not being in control is at the core of most of this.

Taking control will change the dynamics, so things will change, no one can say where it will go, but staying the same is getting you nowhere

Take the wheel he can either be a passenger or walk, its his choice. At the moment he is telling you to buckle up and shut up.
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« Reply #36 on: August 16, 2015, 08:56:05 PM »

Yes. I realize this boundry of no contact with him while he acts/thinks this way is how I protect myself from that. I still feel bad, though. :/

So... .if you are NC with him while he acts this way... .how do you know when he stops "acting this way... ."  ?

Notwendy made some great suggestions about the values that you will turn into boundaries... .is that something you can focus on for a while... .?  I think there is some good stuff there... .

FF
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« Reply #37 on: August 16, 2015, 11:19:33 PM »

I don't know when he stops. I guess I figured at some undefined time he would try to make contact and maybe I would be open to it just to check and see if he shifted how he wants to handle things.

It really helps to re frame this as a control issue. Thanks for that insight. Actually the more I think about it, the more it makes sense. I have been spinning in circles trying to figure out why the heck he sets me up for how he can fix things, then starts making it all about how upset I get and how I am constantly resisting falling in line.

Doesn't exactly inspire me to want to be around him now, knowing I have been so focused on him that my life has been burning up around me while he plays a control game.

Before this event the other day, I had gone silent on him for over two weeks. I felt ok with that. The grind of the anxiety lifted a lot, and I was just having a good day, so grateful for the feeling of peace in my chest.

Maybe he was trying to provoke me out of that. It worked and we were back into conflict. That bothers me a lot.

Ok, let's put him aside to be without me for now. I am good for working on my values and boundries.

Here is a value: I don't have relationships with people who effect me so badly my life ( whatever makes up my life) is being damaged.

I guess that leaves room for self improvement while keeping a possible option for him to be around later.

Thank you, everyone   
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« Reply #38 on: August 17, 2015, 05:42:12 AM »

Here is a value: I don't have relationships with people who effect me so badly my life ( whatever makes up my life) is being damaged.

I'm glad we are sorting out your values... .one thing about values... .they should be clear... .short... .and to the point.

How do you define "people that affect you so badly"?  It seems to be open to interpretation... .I suggest tightening it up a bit.

Examples:  Not suggestions... .

I will not be in a r/s with someone that threatens me... .(still some interpretation there... .)  but a threat is "If you don't do x... .I will do Y... ."

I will not be in a r/s with a person that his having sex with someone else (very clear)

I will not be in a  r/s with someone that "pursues" members of the opposite sex (not so clear... what is "pursuit"

Remember... .these are your values... .you will be happy with them.  At some point... .you will have a romantic partner that you will let know about your values... .

You don't want him to be scratching his head... .going... "Soo... .what does that mean?"

FF
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« Reply #39 on: August 17, 2015, 05:44:51 AM »

  then starts making it all about how upset I get and how I am constantly resisting falling in line.

Boundaries and control fall both ways... .

Do you have a "vision" of what he should be like?  How does it go when he doesn't "fall in line... "?

This is why RA (Radical Acceptance) is key. 

If... .IF!... .you are going to be in a r/s with a pwBPD... .accept them as they are NOW

If you don't like the way they are NOW... .there is some thinking to be done about your goals in the r/s... .

FF
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« Reply #40 on: August 17, 2015, 09:27:07 AM »

I am accepting what he is now. And no I don't like how he is being at all. Is that actually NOT accepting how he is? 

I keep going back and reminding myself what it was that I love. I was reading some old emails from the beginning of our relationship. It was bittersweet.

In practice, probably it doesn't matter why he is being the way he is. At the same time, I think his control thing has it's roots ( like so many of us have ours) in FOO. They have been so manipulative and controlling. Demanding, shaming. That is just what I have seen since I have known him. I think he is rebelling. Against everyone. He has told me he has felt so stitched up that his life is being stolen from him.

Maybe getting that detachment from people who are doing that to him will be healthy in the long run if he can find some balance. I don't know. It was never my intention to be one of those people. Clearly that is how he is seeing me, though.

I do have a vision of what he "should" be like. Smiling (click to insert in post) Sure, I understand I am putting my expectations out there, too. I mainly wanted him to be who I thought he was. What I am banging up against are the issues about poor boundries with other women. He is lovely until I get upset about those things.

He and I talked a couple of times in the last few months. Kindly. I don't actually want to end the relationship, but it's been so hard, us hurting each other. I told him it was ok for us to lay it down with... compassion, I guess. We tried, we still care, but I can't do what he wants, and he can't, or doesn't want to do I what I need. And that is ok.  He comes back at me immediately with, he knows what I need and he can do it, it's just he is not understanding/in agreement with me for why I need him to do it the way I need it. That is, the restriction on him about women.( overnights at ex, lunch with affair girl, one on one time spent together)

Sadly he does play the "I am not in the pool game" while both legs are stuck up to his knees in the water. We get caught up in that constantly. How far in is "in the pool?" To me, skirting the pool, a toe in the pool is IN the darn pool. Stop playing games! THIS is the exact point of contention between us. Endless discord over it. Ugh. I am upset just thinking about it.

There were a lot of unspoken assumptions I had going into the relationship. I was married before. We had problems, got a divorce. It was ugly. I thought that was bad. I never had these kinds of problems in any relationship before. I am clear on other boundries, but the pool game has driven me into a full bloom PTSD.

It may be that I just am not ever going to be equipped to have a relationship with a loose cannon 

Ok, "people who effect me so badly"... .that I have panic attacks. That is the broad boundry. An umbrella boundry. And a really difficult one, since atm, the panic attacks have migrated to other issues. Mainly situations where I feel a lot of stimulation coming in at me... heavy traffic, shopping in busy stores. People who are being negative and talking at me too fast.

My boundries have really been eroded. A lot of times I start thinking about what my values are and I realize I am thinking, I don't have a right to that! Or "but what if"... .or "I should be more compassionate and understanding".

My therapist is back on track, we have a meeting on Wednesday, so I will bring this up with her. That last visit was about how I have become a recluse due to these events in my life. Hiding away, agoraphobic, panic stricken. The homework was to get back out into the world in some way. A trip to the library. A thing I enjoy recreationally.

I am sad to see that this relationship has driven me so inward that I have lost contact with a lot of the outside world, the things I love, social interactions. With that a loss of perspective. I see it. It's like coming out of a tornado shelter and seeing the town leveled. Which is actually an experience I have had. Very stunning.





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« Reply #41 on: August 17, 2015, 09:51:30 AM »

I am sad to see that this relationship has driven me so inward 

Remember... .YOU keep the power... .

If you hand responsibility and power to the r/s for your life... .that usually doesn't lead to a good place...


FF
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« Reply #42 on: August 17, 2015, 10:46:18 AM »

The power I see is not to participate with him in a way that is self destructive.  I am ok with that. It's going to be a while before I am willing to talk to him about anything. A while for me is months. More than a couple of months, less than a year.

I don't know  
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« Reply #43 on: August 17, 2015, 10:59:59 AM »

 I was more making a point that you said the r/s was responsible for you becoming a hermit... .

I don't want to discount the influence of external events... .or events that you participate in... .

But... .big pictures stuff... .YOU stay responsible for your actions and decisions... .

Much better that way... . 

This is the kinda thing to discuss with your T... .and work it into your plan of things to discuss and work on.

FF
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« Reply #44 on: August 17, 2015, 11:13:33 AM »

The relationship... .it's like this... I am so depleted from the relationship and sad and angry, that I have withdrawn.

I'm here, and I am understanding that if I had boundries all along that were meant to protect myself, I would not have continued to expose myself to damaging situations.

I am at the end result of that... co dependence... fear?

Now I understand better, though I haven't worked out exactly how to handle the boundries, yet. I have been given a lot of material to think on and figure out how I feel. I can see what my life is today as a result of poor boundries.

When I was growing up, we lived in a huge Victorian farm house. There were 7 bedrooms in it and by the time I was about 14, the older kids had moved out and all that was left was myself and my younger half brother, who was 7. We ended up with a number of spare bedrooms. My step dad used to punish me ( for silly things like reading a lot) by forcing me to rotate between the extra bedrooms upstairs. I was constantly being "inspected" in my personal space. Literally he would come in and search my bedroom top to bottom, randomly, looking for offenses. A candy wrapper, a book not a school book. Or "something you stole". Random things.

Point is, I eventually accepted the intrusion as a part of my life. So we hit the boundries thing, and it's a can of worms for me.

The best I can see myself doing right now is staying disengaged from boyfriend until I sort these things out. I realize maybe this looks sad to be so lacking in this kind of psychological development. But I take this absolutely seriously. This issue is bigger to me than whether I am having a bad relationship with a certain person. For me, the bad relationship is a signpost. Red flag?

I don't know. I feel kind of overwhelmed today. I am glad people are here to try and direct my attention. It means a lot to me. A chance to try and right some things for my life over all. I am really grateful  
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« Reply #45 on: August 17, 2015, 11:17:02 AM »

I don't know. I feel kind of overwhelmed today. I am glad people are here to try and direct my attention. It means a lot to me. A chance to try and right some things for my life over all. I am really grateful  

   

Listen... .file some of our comments away... for discussion with your T.

"Hey T... .I think my r/s was responsible for me withdrawing... .can we work through what my choices were... .what I have power over... .?"

Something like that... .

Hey... .do you like to take walks... .and enjoy the fresh air... .

I'm heading off to the park with D5!   Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

FF
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« Reply #46 on: August 17, 2015, 01:04:55 PM »

I do like walks Smiling (click to insert in post) Every day I take my mom's yorkie out. Bella. She is a miniature type. Somehow the cat two blocks down is always shocked by us, It's eyes bug out every time we go by. Smiling (click to insert in post)

Have fun!
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« Reply #47 on: August 17, 2015, 01:18:23 PM »

 

We did... .there was another kid (4 year old) at the park... .they had a ball playing together.

Now... .relaxing on front porch... waiting for the rain to come... .

FF
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« Reply #48 on: August 17, 2015, 06:46:44 PM »

I think it is good that you are looking at your origins for having a lack of boundaries. Until you address this you are likely to be vulnerable to being walked on like this repeatedly over your life.

"Hands off this is mine and I have a right to choose it" is a good mantra to teach yourself. whereby "mine" can represent a thought/emotion/decison/value.

We have a yorkie/jack russell cross that is an attention junkie ball of fluff on speed
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