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Author Topic: Silent Treatment broken, but then suddenly re-started all over again?  (Read 430 times)
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« on: August 16, 2015, 09:37:45 PM »

So, after being given the Silent Treatment by my dear friend for some time (not knowing if she’d ever say anything again!), she calls me out of the blue late at night just before she was headed to bed, but I didn’t see the call until later, in which case, by that time, she had sent me texts (which, of course, all of this made me incredibly happy to see!) and the first thing she says is that she’s surprised it had been so long since we’d last conversed and says that she “can’t believe it, because I feel so bad,” and how she “hopes” that I believe her when she says she’s been completely swamped in work stuff (understandable! Obviously that’s no problem in my eyes, naturally, for everyone stays busy and that’s good, that’s cool!). She tells me in the texts: “let’s catch up!” She said that she “LOVED” the last letter that I sent to her (a while back) and that she received some books in the mail that I had sent to her and that she was excited to check them out, etc. She goes on to say, once again, that she “feels terrible” and that she “truly hopes that I’m doing well.” She says, “Please tell me how you are and what you’re doing” and also how she “knows she’s a terrible friend” and so on. She goes on to state that, “I miss you very much!” and sends me a picture of the growing morning glories that we planted together in her garden a some time ago. Then, she goes on to say that she has to go to bed, because she has to get up early, and that “please, please let’s catch up!” and the last thing she says in her texts: “I want you to share everything that I’ve not-proudly missed in these past weeks”

I must say, hearing from her again was joyous, and made me happy, because I naturally didn’t know what to think. I didn’t respond to her texts right away, but responded the next afternoon, saying that I was doing well, and that it was great to hear from her and how I was happy to see her text messages, and complimented the picture of the growing flowers, congratulated her on her new job, and I told her that I do believe her and that I knew that she was busy and needed a break and needed space to “handle her business” and I comforted her and said that she needn’t worry or feel bad, and that I understand, completely. I mentioned that I knew she’d been swamped, and that I was looking forward to catching up, indeed, and couldn’t wait to hear about her first day at the job. I told her that I was happy that she liked my letter from a while back, the books, and told her that I’m doing great, and that I’d tell her much more once we talked and could catch up and that I’d share everything anew and I hope she’d do the same, and of course I reciprocated and told her that I miss her “very much” too, and that I look forward to catching up.

Since then? Complete silence, once again. I’ve texted a little more, and she’s not responding. I’ve tried calling. Not answering, and not returning the calls. It sounded to me like she felt terrible because of the time between no talking/silence, and that she wanted to catch up as she said, on everything that we’ve missed out on, and get the newest news, updates, etc., and of course I was looking forward to hearing all about her “latest” and how she’s liking her new job, and so on and so forth, and she seemed to be interested, too, with everything that she told me in her last texts…

…but now? Back to the silence. No responses to texts, no responses to calls.

I’m certain that this is natural behavior, quite common, etc., but it sure is confusing! I’m told that I’m “missed very much” and that she wanted to catch up and said that she wasn’t proud of all of the time that had passed, etc., yet it seems to me like the total opposite, as the silence has just suddenly returned?

Was this a “test” to see how I’d react to her texts? Certainly I can’t imagine so, and I try and think positively and

not overthink (as I tend to do, often, about most things; it’s one of my foibles!), but it’s just completely baffling.

I suppose staying cool is the best thing, of course, but still … baffling!  

Thoughts? Ideas?
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« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2015, 11:30:20 PM »

I was just wondering today how you were doing! Sorry to see you back with more confusing happenings, though.

Has it been the norm in your relationship to send each other 10+ emotionally heavy texts at a time? Out of context, her set of messages seems pretty intense to me and so does your response.

The key with push-pull is to stay in the center while they jump from one side to the other. If they start pulling and you respond with their same level of intensity, that'll probably scare them into pushing you away again. And generally ST is an indication that they were overwhelmed with the level of emotional closeness, so I've found that it's good to keep things light and not very emotionally demanding when we're reconnecting.

So I'd probably say something like "no worries, I'm sorry you've been swamped, the flowers look great, I'm free tonight if you want to call and catch up!" Don't get into the emotional stuff and don't match her level of intensity.

And whatever you do, DO NOT suggest that the period of no contact was caused by BPD, her "issues," or anything like that. Whatever excuse she gives (like work), don't argue or question the excuse. Try to be neutral about it and just move on. Avoid talking about the silent period at all if you can.

The next time you talk, she'll probably gush about "please don't be mad at me for not calling, I was so busy with work, I hope you believe me, please say you believe me!"... .Again, don't get into it. Try to steer the conversation in the least emotional direction, like "yeah I saw you texted that you've been swamped with work, what have you been working on?". You aren't lying or agreeing with the craziness, but you're moving the conversation along without placing any emotional demand on her.

I'd also recommend not initiating contact for a while. Let her take her time to come back to you. That will minimize the odds of her getting scared away again, but it also feels really great to stop the torture of reaching out and feeling rejected. It's so freeing to just do your own thing and not worry if she's going to respond to your texts.

What have you been doing over the past couple weeks with the time that you'd normally spend talking to her? Keep doing that. And then if she decides to call you again, that's just a nice bonus.
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« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2015, 12:28:55 AM »

Hello! Was so happy to see your response, which was comforting and wise! I’ve thought of you and your own situation since we last conversed, and I sought you out first-thing when I logged back in earlier, and was reading your exchanges between members and all of the updates. How’s everything on your end, as an update since the 14th? (I think it was on that date that I saw your exchange, about how you two aren’t living together and how you’re happy about it, and how it’s worked out great so far, and how you’re doing your own thing as she is, and all of the conversations about the separate apartments, how she was “complaining” about little things, etc., etc., I read the whole thing, and it seems like everything is going a little better for you now?)

At first, our texting was massive, passionate and a constant stream of things, but this was in the first stages, ‘way back when’ in the days of yore! But, after all that I mentioned to you before and shared here before about my ignorance of BPD, how to communicate, etc., I think what ‘triggered’ her dysregulation was my behavior/verbiage, of which, at THAT time, I wasn’t privy could cause anything (I didn’t know what I know NOW about pwBPD and all that comes with it, etc.), so the “shift” came and I noticed it, and before, I made it a point to bring that up, and so on, but not to get carried away by the long, drawn out story again, but the shift put a huge barrier/wall up with texting/conversing, and then there was the silent treatment stage. When I saw where she attempted to call me, which in essence is officially breaking ST (I noticed that she decided to wait and call me on the very night that she had to go to bed early so that she could get up to be at her first day on the job; this is not a complaint at all, but just an interesting observation, and there’s probably nothing to it), but since I missed the call because I wasn’t around my phone to see it, I saw it later and like I said, by that time, she had sent me texts.

Anyway! I agree that her texts were straightforward, and relatively intense, and that was something that kind of took me by surprise, in a good way, because I thought, “Ah! She’s perhaps thought of me often” and of course she needed that ‘space’ for herself, but the sudden level of “I miss you very much!” and sending me pictures (which we used to do all of the time anyway, which was a part of the joy and fun!) of the flowers we’d planted together and how they’ve grown and everything in-between, you read what I wrote. I’m a broken record!

I REALLY needed to read what you said to me tonight, because I feel like you’re spot-on. Staying in the center, as they jump from one side to the next. I need to keep reminding myself that. I think that I was just so thrilled that she’d responded out of ST (not really knowing what to expect, of course) that my excitement got the best of me, and perhaps I could’ve worded my texts better (in fact, I texted her again a couple of days later and told her that I do miss her a lot and I missed our conversations, which may not have been a good thing to do, but I’m learning, and I don’t want to ruin this! I mean, she comes out of ST, and then POOF, it’s started up again, and like you said, it’s just a matter of learning what to do, not to do, what to say, not to say, etc., etc., which can be quite difficult at times, but it takes discipline!).

I will definitely keep things light, as you said; I’ve always tried my best to remain positive, cool, calm, and just let it flow, and also staying fun and light-hearted, which goes a long way. It’s so easy to get ensconced into the emotionalism of it all—you want to reciprocate with their level of emotional expression, because it just comes natural, etc., but wow, all of THAT was like, “she really wants to catch up!” and it made me so happy, but suddenly, it’s like, nothingness again.

I’ve taken your suggestions on what to say to heart, and will go for the gusto when the time comes again. “Don’t get into the emotional stuff and don’t match her level of intensity.” That’s great, and I will put this to use.

I agree with you that it’s never a good idea to mention the period of contact was because of her BPD, and I’ve never done that, and I definitely won’t. I’ve heard other people talk about this, as well, and how it’s never a positive thing. Just stay neutral and move on, and avoid talking about the silent period at all if you can. Yes!

I must admit that this is quite difficult, because in many ways you find yourself wanting to say something about it; I swear, early one, I’d feel tempted to say things like, “are we still friends?” or “are you slowly weaning me out of your life?” and so-so-so-so many other thoughts would come to mind, but of course that was before I was knowledgeable about BPD, and so that was my infantile stage! Ha! Because it just makes you wonder all of these things. “Am I suddenly nothing?” “Am I looked upon as just a pile of rubble?” but of course, don’t you feel like if she’s saying those things in her texts when she broke the silence, that she means it? I didn’t feel like it were a test at all, although I’ve read where they WILL ‘test’ their Non for good reasons; one reason being that they want someone to be able to deal with them, or to see how ‘strong’ the Non is with all of this, and so on, which in some sense ‘looks good’ or ‘positive’ in their eyes?

For example: this was an interesting comment that I read earlier that made a lot of sense:

“…the general advice is to stick to the middle…”

“…let (the pwBPD) swing from black to white, to a little black, to a little while (the BPD’s view of you). White feels great, but don’t ‘go for it’ when you are white…the pwBPD may feel smothered. Keep the pwBPD talking, validating what you can. The goal is that the BPD starts talking and feels safe. The pwBPD will most likely push it, say something weird, and if you’re okay, then the pwBPD will relax…”

And here’s what I found very interesting that was then said from this commentator (what do you think?):

“Many times pwBPD know (deep down) they are all over the place; they need or want a partner that is strong. …sometimes the dysregs are ‘tests’ to see if they are with someone strong”

“stick to your center, stick to your values”

Yes! What I highlighted in BOLD up there I found to be very interesting, and although my dear friend and I aren’t in a relationship (other than close friends, although we’ve had moments of closeness; holding hands, caressing shoulder, etc., the innocent, sweet stuff, that would indicate that we COULD be, but are in that median [before I acted stupid, and perhaps ruined it? Which was before I was aware of BPD and how to communicate—ugh, I try not to regret that, but I do; I wish I had of known beforehand all of this, and I would’ve behaved differently, would’ve corresponded and communicated differently, and I wish that she knew this, because I don’t think that she does!]), I love this person very much, and feel like she’s my best friend, so obviously these things affect one in many ways, and perhaps as the commentator said above, perhaps she was seeing if I were “strong”? She saw where I told her it was all okay, that I understood, that I hadn’t abandoned her, that she’s not a terrible friend, for her not to worry or be concerned, because I totally understand, etc., etc., etc.

I’m rambling suddenly, but all of this feels like a release for me, so thank you for hanging in there! I’m so appreciative and grateful for your kind words, thoughts, and suggestions! Like you said, I will do all of these things. Not getting into it. Try to steer the conversation in the least emotional direction, as you said (I agree, and this is perhaps where I keep messing up; getting on the same level of intensity with her).

“No emotional demands” – that’s a great way of putting it.

You’re right, I won’t initiate contact for a while, and let her take her to come back again, and just do what I was doing before she texted/called again, which was definitely freeing! I suppose you’ve been in this situation a lot, eh? You’ve obviously seen positive results with this, or else you wouldn’t be recommending them.

Truthfully, I did want to talk with her on the phone, because our fun and interesting conversations were always enlightening and joyful, and not having talked to her in so long is quite painful! But I’m trying so very hard to just stay calm, stay fun and now that I’ve taken your advice, will stay in the center and not get too emotional (even if she herself shows it), and just stay centered.

One other side note: I didn’t call her until a couple of days after she called/texted me when she broke ST, because I felt like “not being too obvious about it” and acting in haste, etc., and decided to wait to call on a weekend, figuring that she’d be less stressed or tied up with work-related stuff to such an extreme, and that she’d feel slightly more relaxed to talk, but no response. Oh well!

I’m taking your advice and suggestions, no matter. Thank you, always, for responding! I’d love to read  more about how you’ve been and the status of your own situation, too!
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« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2015, 01:40:15 AM »

I'm in the middle of push-pull as well. It's comforting to read the advice and know we're sharing a similar situation (I.e. I'm not alone).

I think you're doing well.
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« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2015, 12:20:24 PM »

I'm in the middle of push-pull as well. It's comforting to read the advice and know we're sharing a similar situation (I.e. I'm not alone).

I think you're doing well.

ptidla, you're definitely not alone, friend, because there are so many people that have chronically had this occur to them, as push/pull and Silent Treatment is one of the niches of a pwBPD. It is comforting to see how others can relate, isn't it? especially when you can talk about it with other Nons that "get it," while growing, learning, and praying for the best, because I do believe in positivity, in goodness, in recovery and healing, for BOTH parties.

I'm sorry that you, too, are going through the same thing, but just know that there are people here that understand and will talk to you, and give you all sorts of great advice (many of them with years and years of expertise and experience).

Much love and hang in there! 
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« Reply #5 on: August 17, 2015, 02:52:40 PM »

I totally get it that you were so excited to hear from her. It's normal human behavior to mirror the other person's level of emotional intensity and involvement, especially when you're so relieved and excited because she seems to finally be giving you the affection and attention that she had been withholding. The problem is that we're dealing with people who feel existentially threatened by our normal human emotional responses. You didn't do anything "wrong" and it's not your fault.

I've been there with wondering whether she even cares about you anymore, are you suddenly nothing to her, etc. It's really confusing to have her send that message with her actions, and then turn around and shower you with affection and I-missed-you. All I can really say in response is that they're both true to her at different times.

When she's overwhelmed, she has to put you out of her mind and act like you mean nothing to her. She might even forget about you--read up on the lesson on "object constancy." It scares her too much to admit that you mean something to her, so she makes up some other reason to not talk to you and she genuinely believes that (e.g., that she's too busy with work, you got too clingy, whatever--the content of the excuse doesn't matter). But when she's back pulling you in, she believes all the good things she says too. People with BPD aren't really able to back up and look at how their emotions have changed over time. All they know is whatever they're feeling in the moment.

What do you like to do with your time? Do more of that. Do you have any romantic interests, other friends, a job that you like or anything? I think it's important to develop more of a support system and make a good life for yourself that's independent of whether your friend will be there for you. It's easier to step back and stay centered throughout the push-pull cycle when you know you'll be fine either way.
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« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2015, 10:55:52 PM »

thisagain, Thank you for the comforting words!

I did indeed read up on "object constancy" and learned even more (I was thinking that I had covered it all, until I went through the thread on that topic on this site, and was blown away!). It really clears the deck in more ways than one.

From "I miss you" and "let's catch up soon!" to complete silence is really quite shocking, but like you said, it's not my fault at all, and it's a part of the disorder. I've learned not to take these things personally, because it would be meaningless, especially after everything that we know and can learn, etc.

You know, before she called/texted me out of the blue, I was doing a lot of good things, for me--staying busy, re-kindling old friendships, having fun, delving in to my hobbies, and so on. I agree that staying centered is the way to go, and your original comment and the suggestions I will definitely put to good usage. This push/pull cycle of hers has been quite extreme. Earlier I thought, "Was she calling/texting just to see how strong my boundaries were, as a test?" ... .I mean, the questions that come to a Non's mind are seemingly endless, particularly out of curiosity and just mere pondering it all.

"What do they think that WE think?" ":)o they think that Nons have black/white thinking as they do?"

Obviously she still wanted to talk to me, or else she wouldn't have called me, knowing that there's a chance I'd answer the phone, with my very voice on the other end! (sounds comical to write that).

One thing I noticed, too, is that she often asks me the same question about if I'm "still in [the same city]" all of the time. She used to pine over me "being safe," and once even apologized for "pining" over me about my safety. For her to ask me the same question, often, about whether I'm "still in the same city" is very interesting (because at the time I was in-between deciding a big move, investigating whether I was to settle elsewhere, etc.), and there's this thing with her wanting me to be safe. Very interesting.

Anyway, thank you for the kind words, always!
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« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2015, 12:19:31 AM »

"What do they think that WE think?" ":)o they think that Nons have black/white thinking as they do?"

Yes. They definitely do think that. One of my partner's go-to black/white thinking moves is to accuse me of ruining her day--like if we had a lovely day together and then something goes wrong, "we were having such a great day and you ruined it all!". And so sometimes when we had a lovely day together and then she says something hurtful, she'll get really apologetic for "ruining my day." I tried to explain to her that I don't think like that--that I enjoyed our nice day together and I'm hurt by what she said and both of those can be true at the same time. She doesn't really get it.

She also gets really scared that I "hate her" after we have a fight. So yes, at least one pwBPD does think that Nons have black/white thinking. She also thinks I have the same object consistency problem; she'll be afraid that I'll forget about her if we spend one night apart or even while I'm in the shower. I think that can actually lead to prolonging the ST, because after a while of ST they get afraid that we split them black or forgot about them.
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« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2015, 03:18:57 PM »

I'm certainly not surprised at all. My pwBPD once told me, "You're so much like me, it's incredible," and in some ways, I am, but in many other ways, I'm not. She was complimenting me. It's incredible the "flip over" that can happen on a dime, isn't it? Have you ever snapped or lashed out at your pwBPD? out of frustration or impatience? I have a friend who had a 'acting out'/lash-out-type/violent ex-wife with BPD, and I didn't realize that this was the case until many years later. I knew she had mental issues and as he called her, "his crazy wife," like Edward Rochester's 'mad wife' in the tower or attic from "Jane Eyre" (that's random!), but some of the stories are insane, indeed. He dealt with physical abuse. No abuse is good, but I think I'll take silent treatment over any form of physical altercations. I really feel for people that have to deal with that.

Anyway, interesting that she gets scared that you hate her after a fight, or even that you'll perhaps forget about her while you're taking a shower (!).

You said this, which I found interesting:

Excerpt
I think that can actually lead to prolonging the ST, because after a while of ST they get afraid that we split them black or forgot about them.

I've pondered this in the past. Thoughts, for example, such as:

":)oes she think I've painted HER black?"

":)oes she think that I've forgotten about HER?"

"Is MY silence a part of her prolonging her silence?"

... .which then leads one to other thoughts about remaining silent, or not remaining silent. If you remain silent, to give her space and let her become soothed by her emotions, does she take this in ways that perhaps lead her thinking to prevail with the idea that she's being abandoned? But, if you make contact, is her "safe haven" the area of control that dominates her not saying anything after you've responded, because she wants to be the one in control? I agree that not saying anything and let "the ball bounce in their court" as has been said, but in the area of "prolonging the silence" because of a Non's silence, I wonder how often this effects their abandonment issues? Of course, then there's a pull again, and recycling, cycling, and so on... .

The psychic disturbance of a pwBPD thinking that the Non is thinking in the way that they do is interesting. Sad, but interesting. I find myself feeling more and more compassionate the more that I learn, try to discern, hear other peoples' stories, etc.
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« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2015, 11:51:48 PM »

It's a no-win situation. You're right to worry that stepping back and giving them space during a period of ST can make them fear that you hate them or forgot about them. But there's no way to tell whether they're ready to have contact again, other than waiting for them to re-initiate contact. If you try to approach them before they're ready, it'll blow up in your face.

Usually my partner will start with the ST, and then after a while (maybe the next morning or after I go to work and come back), she'll scoot over, make a sad face and ask "do you hate me now?"... .I guess it makes her think I hate her when I come home and keep ignoring her. But there have also been plenty of times when I came home, thought she might have cooled off, tried to engage her, and got rejected or harshly pushed away.

Sometimes I try to prevent this problem by telling her "I'm not angry with you, I'm just waiting." But if she's projecting or still painting me black, she'll respond by snapping at me something like "I'm just waiting for YOU to stop acting like this!". So I mostly just keep quiet.

It's very common that she'll say horrible things to me, give me the silent treatment, and then the next day start showering me with praise and frantically begging me not to leave because the ST period triggered her abandonment fears. Like we've been talking about, the key is for me to just stay closer to the middle. If I respond too enthusiastically to the reconciliation, then her fear of too-close will be triggered almost immediately, and we'll just keep ping-ponging between the extremes.

And yes, I definitely get frustrated and snap sometimes. Less when I'm working hard to learn more here and be mindful of my role.

Any updates with your friend? It must feel like such a roller-coaster to get all those nice messages and now back to nothing.
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« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2015, 01:23:09 AM »

I agree that it is a no-win situation. That is just the thing: "there's no way to tell whether they're ready to have contact again, other than waiting for them to re-initiate contact. If you try to approach them before they're ready, it'll blow up in your face." Yes, and I think I've learned my lesson in this regard, and I hope she hasn't nearly pushed me away that I'm one leg from going over the cliff at this point.

Does your partner have other friends where their relationships are stormy? What about her family? Haven't you met them? I think I read that somewhere, although other comments may be getting merged with yours, but I'm just curious.

That's interesting that you mostly keep quiet when she's in her flip-over/dysreg mode, but it's like, what else can one do? "No-win" indeed, although I do believe in positivity and remaining hopeful, because miracles can happen! Interesting, too, how she'll paint you black one moment and then you're white the next. I find it intriguing how when THEY are dishing out the ST, THEY are the ones that feel triggered by the abandonment fears, which of course is common with a pwBPD, but it seems like they're going to be triggered REGARDLESS of the push/pull. If they're dishing out ST, they're often triggered. If they're too close, or whatever, this often triggers something.

When you get frustrated and snap at times, how does she react to that? I'm assuming she reacts to it in different capacities, depending on her mood? It would seem like you're doing good at playing your role, but I've seen in other posts from you where it seems as though you're growing tired of it, and that you won't necessarily miss her as much as you think when you guys have moved away from one another? (an hour away, right?). Obviously you will miss her in some degree, but you're wondering, it would seem, if you will miss her as much as you think she will, and there's all of these questions and how she will react to the miles between you two, right? What do you THINK will happen? I'm just genuinely curious.
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« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2015, 01:26:13 AM »

Excerpt
Any updates with your friend? It must feel like such a roller-coaster to get all those nice messages and now back to nothing.

No new updates, whatsoever. I have often wondered if this will go on and on like this, before the door is finally closed, but I try not to think negatively. I’ve often wondered if she got in contact with me, breaking ST, just to say, “I’m still here, are you?” or, “here’s my hello for the month!” (joking).

But, seriously, she contacted me (called first!), and then texted me all of these great things, but perhaps my not staying centered as you’ve suggested before and in your last comment made her push me away again. It seems to me that there’s a much higher % success rate in getting back in the regular (whatever that means!) swing of things when one stays centered, and as you said, helps from not going from one extreme to the next. Honestly, I’d just like to regularly talk to her again, like before, nothing else! Even if it’s a mere few times a week, or perhaps two or three times per week. Anything. It’s very tough when you genuinely care/love someone so dear to you, and then all of “this” happens. I often wonder if she ever has the intention of talking to me again, or is all of this somehow my “punishment.” Yes, a roller coaster, although I’m just playing it cool, and am hoping for another opportunity to take your advice.

I told her that I’d always be there for her if she ever needed me, and that I’d never abandon her, and I’ve wondered if perhaps this is a test to see if I “mean what I say,” although at this point, I’d think she’d know that! She knows that I’m honest, trusting, etc. She even said that she told her mother “all about me” at one point. She says that she misses me very much. I believe her. I’ve gotten thoughts before such as, “Will she and I ever talk again?” or “Is this her way of slowly closing the door?” I’ve had temptations to make contact, loosely, throwing something fun out there, light-hearted, etc., but I know it’d be a huge mistake. Like you said, it’s usually a bad thing to do, so I’m leaving it all up to her.

She once texted me out of concern over some issues that I was dealing with, but I didn’t respond to them right away, mostly not to act in haste, but also to think about how I wanted to respond, and also because I was busy at the time. I noticed that she had asked me how I was doing, how everything was going, because she seemed really concerned. I was feeling better that day, so I finally responded and her reaction was IMMEDIATE! as if she had been merely waiting in concern for my text, because of her worries. It was something like this: “Where have you been?” as if she felt like perhaps she was being abandoned by me, because I didn’t respond right away. I told you before that she used to always be concerned about my safety, how I’m doing, “are you safe?” and so on. Just a thought.

Now? Ice Ice Ice. The silence is a kind of nakedness.
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« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2015, 05:57:11 PM »

thisagain, I swear, sometimes I get the urge/temptation to just reach out and say something like this:

"If you're going to just throw me off like a pile of hot bricks, and if you'd rather not speak to me ever again in your life, how about you just remove my number, delete from me Facebook, and just tell me that you'd rather not talk to me again by removing me out of your life for good?"

It's sad to say, yes, and I'd absolutely hate to lose her as a friend (I don't want to lose her as a friend!), but I'm not going to lie and say that the "itch" of temptation doesn't come to the forefront of my mind some days, where I'm just like, "screw this; I don't deserve to be treated like this," but then there's the other side of the token: I care about her dearly.

I wonder, does she have urges to contact me? Is she afraid that I may act the same if we talk again, which keeps her from not saying anything? Why bother to reach out by calling and texting with such kind and wonderful things, to then go completely silent again? Why say you want to catch up and that you look forward to it, and all of such things, to then bring about the Ice Age again?

Hey, it's the middle of Summer, but I feel like I'm walking in a snow storm!

The terrible part is "not knowing". "What is she thinking?" and I sit here sometimes wondering to myself, "Why even bother at this point?" I'm not in denial. I know why. It's because I care and I don't want to lose her as a friend.

Yes, I'm doing my own thing, I'm enjoying other friends, I'm working, having fun, and enjoying my hobbies and whatnot, but this still doesn't take away this kind of "nag" that bumps into me.

I don't know. I just get tired of wondering, pondering, feeling temptations to say SOMETHING, and so on (even though I KNOW it'd be a mistake), but sometimes I find myself just wanting to tell her that if she just doesn't want to talk anymore, then just tell me. I won't be mad. I'd rather know than not know (that's the thing, too; maybe she's afraid she's going to hurt me by telling me such things? but if this is the case, it's MORE hurtful NOT knowing! but they probably don't feel that, because of the fear of abandonment).

I'd rather someone say, "I never want to talk to you again; get out of my life," than be left with a consistent nag of questioning, wondering, and so on. I think I'd rather her spit on me and punch me in the mouth, than to be thrown off without a peep, as if I were a pile of steaming sewage.

I'm not going to lie and say that all of this isn't painful, because I'd just be being dishonest. It hurts.

I've been doing great, until today, where I've suddenly felt the pain return. Ups and downs, you know? 

It may sound silly to some people, but when you care about someone so greatly, and to have this happen, some will say, "You'll get over it" and I'm shocked by such comments. One just doesn't get over something such as this. I care about this person so much and it's painful, and the pain has returned in a greater way today than it has in a long time.  :'(
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« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2015, 06:19:01 PM »

thisagain, I swear, sometimes I get the urge/temptation to just reach out and say something like this:

"If you're going to just throw me off like a pile of hot bricks, and if you'd rather not speak to me ever again in your life, how about you just remove my number, delete from me Facebook, and just tell me that you'd rather not talk to me again by removing me out of your life for good?"

It's sad to say, yes, and I'd absolutely hate to lose her as a friend (I don't want to lose her as a friend!), but I'm not going to lie and say that the "itch" of temptation doesn't come to the forefront of my mind some days, where I'm just like, "screw this; I don't deserve to be treated like this," but then there's the other side of the token: I care about her dearly.

I wonder, does she have urges to contact me? Is she afraid that I may act the same if we talk again, which keeps her from not saying anything? Why bother to reach out by calling and texting with such kind and wonderful things, to then go completely silent again? Why say you want to catch up and that you look forward to it, and all of such things, to then bring about the Ice Age again?

Hey, it's the middle of Summer, but I feel like I'm walking in a snow storm!

The terrible part is "not knowing". "What is she thinking?" and I sit here sometimes wondering to myself, "Why even bother at this point?" I'm not in denial. I know why. It's because I care and I don't want to lose her as a friend.

Yes, I'm doing my own thing, I'm enjoying other friends, I'm working, having fun, and enjoying my hobbies and whatnot, but this still doesn't take away this kind of "nag" that bumps into me.

I don't know. I just get tired of wondering, pondering, feeling temptations to say SOMETHING, and so on (even though I KNOW it'd be a mistake), but sometimes I find myself just wanting to tell her that if she just doesn't want to talk anymore, then just tell me. I won't be mad. I'd rather know than not know (that's the thing, too; maybe she's afraid she's going to hurt me by telling me such things? but if this is the case, it's MORE hurtful NOT knowing! but they probably don't feel that, because of the fear of abandonment).

I'd rather someone say, "I never want to talk to you again; get out of my life," than be left with a consistent nag of questioning, wondering, and so on. I think I'd rather her spit on me and punch me in the mouth, than to be thrown off without a peep, as if I were a pile of steaming sewage.

I'm not going to lie and say that all of this isn't painful, because I'd just be being dishonest. It hurts.

I've been doing great, until today, where I've suddenly felt the pain return. Ups and downs, you know? 

It may sound silly to some people, but when you care about someone so greatly, and to have this happen, some will say, "You'll get over it" and I'm shocked by such comments. One just doesn't get over something such as this. At least, not right away. Losing a loved one isn't easy, no matter how it happens. I care about this person so much and it's painful, and the pain has returned in a greater way today than it has in a long time.  :'(

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« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2015, 06:37:59 PM »

(excuse the quoted text above; not sure how that happened--tried to delete, but didn't see an option to do that)
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« Reply #15 on: August 20, 2015, 07:00:49 PM »

Hi there, I just wanted to let you know I'm on the way out the door (last-minute trip to the store to save my partner from her inability to plan in advance... .picking my battles) but I feel your pain and we'll talk soon! Hang in there.

I know her friendship was really important to you and this really hurts. But as hard as it is to believe, this isn't personal. It's about what's going on with her and has nothing to do with you. Try to take a break from analyzing why she's doing this or what she's thinking. Everyone here has got your back.
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« Reply #16 on: August 20, 2015, 09:18:27 PM »

So now that you've experienced your friend's hurtful behavior, and been around here for a while and read some of the Lessons, what do you think about continuing the friendship with her? Continuing the friendship in a way that's healthy for you will require detaching and not taking it personally when she's in silent-treatment mode.

Otherwise she'll just drive you crazy because you're wondering what's going on and trying to analyze something that is just not rational. She probably isn't even "thinking" about it, as far as forming full sentence-type thoughts in her head: "I'm not going to text LK because ___." She's just reacting subconsciously to whatever her emotion is in the moment. And her emotions can be unstable and rapidly shifting. You can sometimes see patterns, but you'll probably never be able to 100% prevent these episodes or predict when they will start or end.

Keep taking care of yourself and don't judge yourself or let other people judge you for feeling hurt, ok?
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« Reply #17 on: August 23, 2015, 12:41:35 PM »

Hello! Thank you always for the kind words and comfort! You’re right, it isn’t personal, and I need to keep reminding myself that. It’s not easy. “Does she ever want to talk to me again?” keeps ringing through my head.

I wonder if my validating her silence and how she’s not terrible that she’s been doing this, made her feel like it’s perfectly fine to keep doing it? “No, you’re fine; you’re not terrible; you’ve been swamped and busy, so don’t worry and don’t feel terrible about anything.” It’s complex and difficult to determine exactly what it is, but I almost feel like its excuses to continue to ignore me. And that is what it is. Totally ignoring me after sending me those last texts.

I’m still her friend and want to continue my relationship with her, and as you said, not taking this silent stretch personally is the thing to do. I’ve read where a lot of times the pwBPD will know deep down that they care and love someone, but because of this, they will push the people that they care about the most away from them.

“She’s just reacting subconsciously to whatever her emotion is in the moment. And her emotions can be unstable and rapidly shifting…”

Yes! She’s done this before with other friends and family, she has shared with me (before I knew anything about BPD! I didn’t know what to think at the time, other than that was merely ‘her way’ of ‘dealing’ with issues, etc.). Obviously I had engulfed her, I feel may be the case, and I would have acted differently had I known more about her disorder, and I kick myself to this day for not educating myself more when she first shared me with that she had it.

I’ve been reading more books lately, especially “I Hate You, Don’t Leave Me” and other books and guides.

One interesting book that I discovered, that you may be familiar with, is “Ostracism: The Power of Silence” by Kipling D. Williams. If you aren’t familiar, it’s something to check out! In it, he quotes William James’ classic text about how when someone gives you the ST, that it’s like “being cut dead”. Check this out:

William James: “A man's Social Self is the recognition which he gets from his mates. We are not only gregarious animals, liking to be in sight of our fellows, but we have an innate propensity to get ourselves noticed, and noticed favorably, by our kind. No more fiendish punishment could be devised, were such a thing physically possible, than that one should be turned loose in society and remain absolutely unnoticed by all the members thereof. If no one turned round when we entered, answered when we spoke, or minded what we did, but if every person we met 'cut us dead,' and acted as if we were non-existing things, a kind of rage and impotent despair would ere long well up in us, from which the cruellest bodily tortures would be a relief; for these would make us feel that, however bad might be our plight, we had not sunk to such a depth as to be unworthy of attention at all.

This is one reason why people would rather be beaten to a pulp versus being given the ST, because at least by being threatened, or abused, or punched and spit on, it’s physical and there’s a level of acknowledging one’s existence, whereas the ST is the complete opposite of this.

~

I am indeed trying my best to not take all of this personally, and there for a while before my last message to you above, I was doing great, but then, suddenly, the pain and frustration hit me like a ton of bricks, out of nowhere, and I felt completely depressed about it.

I just wish that this is something that she and I could “get passed” and “move on” and just talk here and there and get back to our beautiful correspondences like before. It was glorious and something I cherished! That’s all I want. She may not know that, but it’s the truth; I want nothing more than to just keep in-touch, learn more, talk and enjoy the conversation, etc.

Her new job is keeping her focused, too, and busy, but that shouldn’t be an excuse for anyone to just write someone out of their lives. Her job may have given her a new identity. She may have new friends and new connections, and has just thrown me out of the way. I have not heard from her since she started this new job, so it is what it is. People are busy all of the time, but they make time for their friends. I understand this is different, because of her disorder, and they think differently and all of such things, but I’m learning, and I’m just going to be patient and hope that she contacts me again, in which case I’m planning to “stay centered” as you suggested.

What if she brings up the “long time no talk” thing, if we do finally talk again? What would be best for me to say? “It’s been a while, yes, but that’s okay…” and then change the subject? Or... .? You suggested before NEVER to say anything about the silent treatment, right? It’s obviously a mistake to do so, but what if it comes up?

I appreciate all of your thoughts and comforts. It goes a long way!
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« Reply #18 on: August 23, 2015, 01:07:49 PM »

You don't have to say "that's okay" when you don't think it's okay. I'd recommend something vague, unemotional, and forward-looking. If she says "long time no talk," you say "I'm glad you called today." If she is frantic about apologizing and making excuses, try to find the least emotionally charged way to respond (e.g., she says "I've been so busy with work and I'm so sorry I haven't called!", you say "Right, how is your new job?".

In my limited experience the pwBPD isn't really planning the ST in a deliberate or premeditated way, so you don't need to worry about saying something that'll make her think it's okay or doesn't bother you. When she's in that place she's not even thinking about how it'll affect you or remembering what you said about it last time. She's just doing what she feels.

One thing I've found with my partner is that she has very limited capacity to deal with things that are emotionally demanding. So if she has a new job that's hard for her to adjust to, that fills (and probably exceeds) her capacity and she has no emotional capacity left for me. If I want to stay connected with her, I have to dial back what I'm asking from her emotionally and probably help her carry the load (through validation etc). I don't always like it, as you can see in my other posts, but that's what you need to do to maintain a connection.

It could be the same with your friend. Some combination of the job, the fear of getting too close, and maybe some projecting causing her to be scared that you're mad at her now, could just be too much. But really the only thing we can be sure of is that it's too much.
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« Reply #19 on: August 23, 2015, 01:27:45 PM »

Great post. You can't imagine how comforting that was for me to read. Vague, unemotional and forward-looking is the way to go. Staying centered. Like you said before, this is the best way to maintain the connection--too much emotion can be a trigger-point, and the sudden 'panic' happens and we're back to square one, or dare I say, square zero? Sub-zero temperatures?

Even with your limited experience, you seem to have a grasp on many of the important areas and how to deal with those areas. "She's just doing what she feels." <--- I need to keep reminding myself that, over and over. It's so easy to take something personally, even if you don't want to, because it's human nature, I suppose, but I'm truly a deeply loving and compassionate person, that doesn't get mad easily, not easily offended, etc., but I've never had to deal with anything quite like this before in my entire life, and I don't think that anyone has that has been involved with a friend/bf or gf/husband or wife with BPD.

Interesting parallels with your partner and how she has a limited capacity to deal with things that are emotionally demanding, and that if she has a new job that demands or exceeds her capacity, then she has no emotional capacity left for you, and perhaps this is what has happened with my pwBPD. The combination of all of these things, etc.

I must confess that I also stopped paying a visit to her Timeline on Facebook, because just seeing her makes me feel upset, so I've unfollowed her so that I wouldn't see her updated posts. She hasn't liked anything of mine and I haven't liked anything of hers, and in truth, I don't go over there to see what she has been up to, because it makes me sad. Sounds silly, perhaps, but it is what it is!

How are you doing these days with your pwBPD? Anything new to be told? I'm sure there is! I'll look for recent posts you've made on the main board and see if there's anything new, unless you just want to tell it here. I suppose the separation from the moving is coming soon, right?
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« Reply #20 on: August 23, 2015, 01:41:33 PM »

I know this is really tough! I hope you're still seeking out other friends and things to do. And now you'll be very prepared the next time she comes around.

I think that's a good idea with Facebook! I used to get really hurt when my partner would tell me she was so upset that she couldn't talk to me, and then I see her posting stuff on Facebook like look at this cute animal video, etc. Eventually I learned to accept the whole emotional-immaturity thing and that when she's dysregulated all she can handle are cute animal videos. But it still stings sometimes.

We're okay. I've been working really hard on applying the Lessons and am starting to see our interactions become more relaxed and less on-edge. The move is happening in weird stages--last week I moved most of my stuff, but we're still in the same apartment, and starting next week my job will have me in HER new city for a few weeks. So I'm hoping that will soften the blow for her. She has been able to be happy and snuggly with me at times even though she's really upset and scared about moving, so that's some good progress Smiling (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #21 on: August 23, 2015, 02:00:18 PM »

Super tough, yes, but being here, talking with others about it, and reading more and more, has helped tremendously! Yes, I reconnected with some old friends, and have been "doing my thing" since her ST recycled again, and so, like you said, I'm very prepared the next time she comes around (which is one of the worse parts of it all: "when will that be?"--either way, I'm ready and prepared!).

I'm glad you liked the unfollowing of Facebook (I'm glad that the person that you're unfollowing isn't given a notification for that! Ha!). Just seeing her face, and how I miss being right there with her, and missing her in general, upsets me to the core. Like you said, you understand how THAT feels! It definitely stings. Best to try and relieve the pain in some degree by not seeing ANYTHING she posts. Ignorance is bliss, as is said.

I'm glad you're doing okay! I am learning a lot from your own experiences, and how, as you said, you've been applying the Lessons and how you're seeing a dramatic increase in how those Lessons are affecting your connection. I've read where A LOT of people have applied these Lessons and have seen incredible results from it. Knowing how to communicate is key, and I'm learning, and I suppose we all are.

I'm glad you two are doing good. Interesting how your job will have you in her new city for a few weeks! I suppose she's pretty happy about that, eh? Have you two talked about what the separation will be like at all, or have you just kept it quiet about that, so as not to set something off? Obviously the communication about this has come up often.

Change is always difficult and can be nerve-wracking, especially with a move to a new town/city, but once she's settled in, she'll fit right in. I'm just glad that you both are doing well! Great progress, indeed! Smiling (click to insert in post)
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