What to do when they shift?

[Jessica84]

What do you do when things start to unravel again with your pwBPD?

We have been getting along very well for several months now - making long-term plans, talking more frequently, spending more time together, lighter moods, quick to apologize, fewer and less intense dysregulations. We've even taken 2 road trips this summer with no problems! Ok, well there's been occasional hiccups, but staying calm (slightly detached) and validation were enough to keep things running smoothly.

Then, out of nowhere, there's this old familiar SHIFT - where he's suddenly tense, cold, distant, saying mean things unprovoked, then calling me a saint (translation = I'm too good for him). Phone calls are shorter, then become texts, then cancelling on dates. I can see the writing on the wall - this is how he acts right before he's about to break up for no reason. Wish I could prevent this, but I've never been able to before.

Anyone go thru this? What do you do when this starts to happen? Getting mad, sad or upset is pointless. JADEing doesn't work. Asking him what's wrong provokes him. Pretending everything is ok makes him escalate to prove things aren't. Being distant or ignoring him makes him feel abandoned and justified. So is there nothing we can do when they change directions on a dime like this?

I haven't done any of these things this time. I've tried to validate, but I can't validate what I can't see... other than him being stressed at work I don't know what's caused his switch to flip this time!

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[MaroonLiquid]

What do you do when things start to unravel again with your pwBPD?

We have been getting along very well for several months now - making long-term plans, talking more frequently, spending more time together, lighter moods, quick to apologize, fewer and less intense dysregulations. We've even taken 2 road trips this summer with no problems! Ok, well there's been occasional hiccups, but staying calm (slightly detached) and validation were enough to keep things running smoothly.

Then, out of nowhere, there's this old familiar SHIFT - where he's suddenly tense, cold, distant, saying mean things unprovoked, then calling me a saint (translation = I'm too good for him). Phone calls are shorter, then become texts, then cancelling on dates. I can see the writing on the wall - this is how he acts right before he's about to break up for no reason. Wish I could prevent this, but I've never been able to before.

Anyone go thru this? What do you do when this starts to happen? Getting mad, sad or upset is pointless. JADEing doesn't work. Asking him what's wrong provokes him. Pretending everything is ok makes him escalate to prove things aren't. Being distant or ignoring him makes him feel abandoned and justified. So is there nothing we can do when they change directions on a dime like this?

I haven't done any of these things this time. I've tried to validate, but I can't validate what I can't see... other than him being stressed at work I don't know what's caused his switch to flip this time!

You may never know the cause, and I know this seems to be callous to say... .You need to be okay with that to stay in a long term r/s with a pwBPD.  There is nothing we can do except validate any underlying emotion if they have let us in on it.  Don't look at it as ignoring, look at it as being empathetic to what they need.  At first, when dealing with this, the expect us to react and say, "I don't deserve this treatment!" and be a part of their problem.  That just makes things worse as they know we don't deserve it.  They have to get to a place where they recognize that how they act isn't a healthy way to handle things.  The only way to do that is to leave them with their own emotions.  Push/pull is very difficult to deal with, but when I see my wife pull away, I do also.  I let her know I respect her enough to let her calm down.  Don't get me wrong, I miss her terribly at times.  In those moments, I do something to take my mind off of it and do something else.  It helps.

[downnout98]

You may never know the cause, and I know this seems to be callous to say... .You need to be okay with that to stay in a long term r/s with a pwBPD.  There is nothing we can do except validate any underlying emotion if they have let us in on it.  Don't look at it as ignoring, look at it as being empathetic to what they need.  At first, when dealing with this, the expect us to react and say, "I don't deserve this treatment!" and be a part of their problem.  That just makes things worse as they know we don't deserve it.  They have to get to a place where they recognize that how they act isn't a healthy way to handle things.  The only way to do that is to leave them with their own emotions.  Push/pull is very difficult to deal with, but when I see my wife pull away, I do also.  I let her know I respect her enough to let her calm down.  Don't get me wrong, I miss her terribly at times.  In those moments, I do something to take my mind off of it and do something else.  It helps.[/quote]
This is great advise. I am rentering a relationship with my ex and my biggest issue was that I would take the push pull so personal and then I became part of the problem. It is hard to detach from that emotion especiallysince I am going through it right now. We are together but she does make it a point to tell me that she is worried about being committed. She says this then goes back to being loving. So hard to stay the course.

[Jessica84]

Thanks Maroon. I know you're right. I have plenty to do that doesn't involve him. But I'm not looking forward to the big drama he's about to create. If I find excuses why I can't talk or see him (to avoid the drama) it will make things worse. If I do see him, it's a collision course. No-win situation.

Since nothing's happened (yet) it's a tricky balance right now between maintaining our normal routine... .while waiting for the axe to fall.

I hate this pattern. Once he's on this course, it goes all the way to the end. If it hadn't happened before, I'd be blindsided by it. Since it has, I'm anxious about it.

[Jessica84]

Downnout - I hear you. I've done a lot of work with the lessons here to take his behaviors less personally. That was the biggest challenge for me. How do you not take it personal when someone says they don't want to be with you anymore? Isn't that about as personal as it gets?

What I've learned is, with BPD, it isn't. It is rarely ever about us. It's about them, their emotions and not knowing how to cope with them. Still... .doesn't make it any easier. It's still happening. We still hear the harsh words. I've done better shrugging them off.

I hate that he's about to go thru some form of nonsense, followed by brief silence, then back to normal. I'll ride it out, but I hate it. So disruptive. So unnecessary.

[formflier]

 

Jessica,

If you have had a good period... and things are better... .and you are good with tools... .it might be ok to try a direct conversation with him. 

If he goes off deep end... .you have tools... .

You could try my old favorite... ."help me understand... " to try and soften things a bit.

Talk about the good times and how you want more of that... etc etc.

Or directly ask about his emotions... .and validate what you hear.

FF

[Jessica84]

Good advice. Thanks FF. Just being here makes me feel a lot better!

He tried to pick a fight with me last week, but I hung up on him. Told him "you may need to say all these things, but I don't need to hear them." He called me back several times after that and spoke calmly, but then cancelled at different times on getting together all weekend. No biggie. I made other plans.

Backing off and giving him space must've helped. He just texted me the real issue. His assistant is leaving and he's panicked about upcoming deadlines at work. Overwhelmed and stressed to the max. He doesn't have a replacement hired yet and his blood pressure is way up.

Now I know what to validate at least. As long as I'm not his target, I can handle it. I mean I get it in a way. His cup is full of acid and he needs to dump it somewhere. But I'm not acid-proof. I'll support him with my haz-mat suit on! 

[MaroonLiquid]

Good advice. Thanks FF. Just being here makes me feel a lot better!

He tried to pick a fight with me last week, but I hung up on him. Told him "you may need to say all these things, but I don't need to hear them." He called me back several times after that and spoke calmly, but then cancelled at different times on getting together all weekend. No biggie. I made other plans.

Backing off and giving him space must've helped. He just texted me the real issue. His assistant is leaving and he's panicked about upcoming deadlines at work. Overwhelmed and stressed to the max. He doesn't have a replacement hired yet and his blood pressure is way up.

Now I know what to validate at least. As long as I'm not his target, I can handle it. I mean I get it in a way. His cup is full of acid and he needs to dump it somewhere. But I'm not acid-proof. I'll support him with my haz-mat suit on! 

I'm with you.  I don't react to my wife's crap either.  A couple of times she has tried to get me alone in the car and start and I stay calm and centered.  It soothes her eventually, but it also frustrates her that I don't give in and "join" her.

[Cat Familiar]

That situation totally sucks, Jessica, but at least you know you're not the direct target, just collateral damage.

What I find most annoying is that they want to stink up the room with their crappy mood and if I "don't notice" my husband gets annoyed because I'm "not supporting him." Misery loves company I guess.

Having been a codependent until recent years and still having a desire to cheerlead and make his mood lighter, I find I have to check these tendencies. I think I need to develop a course in "healthy narcissism" for those of us who are caretakers. I just imagine how it would be if I really didn't notice the temperature of the room and could just be in my own happy space without noticing that he's in a bad mood. Fake it until you make it. 

[Jessica84]

You got it Cat! I think I posted prematurely. I've been away awhile and just read several threads about very similar situations. Helps to remember I'm not alone. He is the only pwBPD I know, and sometimes it feels like no one understands.

Thank you for all the support! 

[Cat Familiar]

Jessica,

You're lucky he's the only pwBPD you know. So many of us here have had a whole slew of them in our lives.

I get the sense that your guy, like mine, learned how to be even more buttoned up in grad school. Probably both of them learned that in their families, but along the career path, they have perfected the art of keeping things close to the vest.

So it's very frustrating, as their partner, when they're short-tempered, in a bad mood, uncommunicative, etc. and we try to understand.

For so many of us who are caretakers, or even those of us who just want to be understanding and compassionate, the anger of our loved ones is easily communicated and understood, but we want to know what's behind the anger. So we start inquiring. Often our inquiries are met with more anger and resistance and often we assume we're the reason they're angry. So we inquire further... .and the downward spiral speeds up... .

When I used to do this, my husband would often say, "It's not about you. You think everything is about you."

There may be a grain of truth to this, but on the other hand, I don't act crappy to the people I love and then not disclose why I'm in a bad mood. If I'm irritated about something, I make sure they don't think it's anything to do with them. PwBPD don't seem to have the self awareness and the emotional intelligence to do this.

[Jessica84]

I'd love it if he would tell me it's not about me! I know some people take that the wrong way... .probably depends on how they say it... .but my defenses go way down when I know it's not me. I can handle vast amounts of raging or venting as long as it's not about me. Years of practice with my family I guess---- Yell at the TV, scream about your boss, punch that pillow, slam the door... .but blame me and all bets are off. 

I try to deal with his moods as they come. Sometimes it takes me a minute to catch up. Like oh so my date is a toddler this evening. How special. Hard to get too mad at a toddler having a tantrum... .or a scared little boy acting out because he needs comfort... .or even a teenager rebelling because he doesn't know any other way... .eventually, he's a man again. One comfort is knowing whatever the mood or maturity level he's experiencing, it won't last. The only downside is, that includes the good moods too. (sigh)

[Cat Familiar]

I try to deal with his moods as they come. Sometimes it takes me a minute to catch up. Like oh so my date is a toddler this evening. How special. Hard to get too mad at a toddler having a tantrum... .or a scared little boy acting out because he needs comfort... .or even a teenager rebelling because he doesn't know any other way... .eventually, he's a man again. One comfort is knowing whatever the mood or maturity level he's experiencing, it won't last. The only downside is, that includes the good moods too. (sigh)

That's a good strategy--identifying age appropriate behavior. . Too bad it's not congruent with their actual age. 

[formflier]

I'd love it if he would tell me it's not about me! 

The thing is... .he may not actually know it.

In this story... it seemed he was projecting or mad at you... .when it was an issue with an assistant.

The key to remember is "at the moment" when he was feeling it... .it probably was about you... .or he felt like it was about you.


Last comment... .or actually a question... .  Do you think that once you figure out it is not about you... .that is is good for you to listen to all the bad stuff?

FF

[Jessica84]

Good points FF. Honestly, listening to his rants doesn't really bother me. We all need someone safe to vent to. Of course it isn't mutual because I don't see him as someone safe to vent to anymore, but I have other friends for that. I feel sorry for him that he sees the world in such a negative light, but I'm pretty good at not letting it seep in. I'm a stubborn optimist.    I don't get why he watches the news or politics when it upsets him so much. Why he goes looking for reasons to get upset is beyond me. But that's his choice.

It's only when his anger turns on me that I shudder. I don't mind taking the blame if I've done something wrong. I'm very quick to apologize and try to make amends... .but if I don't know? That's where I get stuck.

And yes Cat Familiar! I so wish he would act his age--consistently--but I'm afraid he can't do that. It has helped me soo much to deal with him as the age he is acting! I've been able to let go of soo much of what he says/does. I had to make a real effort to think like that at first, but now I'm not even conscious of it anymore. Even better since it takes less effort! I've noticed our conflicts are far less lately so it has made me wonder... .was it always me and how I reacted to him?

[formflier]

 

If he didn't vent to you... .who would he vent to?

If you cut the amount of venting that you listen to by half... .what would he do with the other half?

This is something I am thinking through on my end... .

I'm sure that there is an appropriate amount of listening to venting that I should do for my wife... .however... .I am not my wife's therapist... .

So... .I'm trying to figure out how much listening I should do and then move along.

If I wait until I'm tired of listening... .that is most likely way too much listening on my side.  My goal is to set a normal amount... that I know I can handle... .that way in a true crisis... .I should have reserves of energy to do extra listening... and that would seem like extra to her... .since it is above normal.

My thought about the dynamic that I am trying to change is that when I would get tired of listening... .and want to do something else... .my wife could detect the withdrawing... .and maybe some abandonment fears would come up.

Anyway... .much better to end a venting session on my terms before I am tired... .

So far... .it seems to be going pretty good... .and the amount of time she vents to me is way down.

Anyway... .hope this helps... or gives some ideas.  I would hate to think that in his mind he equates seeing Jessica84 as an opportunity to vent... .that should be a minor part of the r/s.

FF

[Jessica84]

It does take patience, and we all have different thresholds for how much we can listen to! For the most part, it doesn't bother me as long as I have time and not feeling too stressed myself.

He doesn't really have anyone I would call "safe" to vent to. When he does, it's in pretty horrible, unconstructive ways that rubs most people the wrong way. It comes off as TOO MUCH and can feel like an attack or hurtful because he lacks a filter.

It's only with the tools that I can better see the emotions behind it to validate his feelings. So over time, I've become the go-to for that. I realize he's come to depend on me a lot more for this, but not in a therapy way. The validation may bring up his feelings, but I never feel like I've got him on the couch. I finally got him to stop any kind of suicide talk when I told him it frightened me, and reminded him I'm not a trained therapist or equipped to handle that. It was a big relief to tell him that.

So when I say venting, it's more him complaining about normal things in life that anyone would - his job, family, the latest drama with a friend, politics, a rude cashier, some idiot driver, etc... .he just takes it to excess. But it's stuff I can handle and pretty easy to validate. Again, as long as I'm not the target of his wrath or too stressed out to listen. It's those times where I need to work on... .

[ptilda]

You're certainly not alone! I'm currently walking the tightrope with the pendulums swinging back and forth trying to knock me off. If I keep my focus on my feet and only give the shadow of the pendulum my peripheral vision, I can retain my balance and hopefully make it to the end, but if I try to watch the pendulum or grab onto it, I'm screwed!

H has started regulating after a long time of dis-regulation and while it's a relief, I too am bracing for the next storm which could be later today or months (even years) from now.

Thanks for sharing your experiences. These message boards have been unspeakably valuable for me!

[Cat Familiar]

I don't see him as someone safe to vent to anymore, but I have other friends for that. I feel sorry for him that he sees the world in such a negative light, but I'm pretty good at not letting it seep in. I'm a stubborn optimist.    I don't get why he watches the news or politics when it upsets him so much. Why he goes looking for reasons to get upset is beyond me. But that's his choice.

It's only when his anger turns on me that I shudder. I don't mind taking the blame if I've done something wrong. I'm very quick to apologize and try to make amends... .but if I don't know? That's where I get stuck.

And yes Cat Familiar! I so wish he would act his age--consistently--but I'm afraid he can't do that. It has helped me soo much to deal with him as the age he is acting! I've been able to let go of soo much of what he says/does. I had to make a real effort to think like that at first, but now I'm not even conscious of it anymore. Even better since it takes less effort! I've noticed our conflicts are far less lately so it has made me wonder... .was it always me and how I reacted to him?

I'm in the same boat, Jessica. The other day my husband was in a good mood and I started talking about something insignificant (I can't even remember the topic) that was bothering me, as if he were a non. Almost immediately he started getting upset, asking me pointed questions and giving unasked for advice. I had just needed to discuss something and wanted someone else's take on it--not to be drilled and have the conversation take an adversarial turn. It was just a vent; I needed a sounding board. I should have known better and spoken with a friend instead.

And he constantly watches politics, even regularly watching "the opposition's" media. Then he gets upset.

I'll try thinking of him as regressing to a younger age when he starts acting out. I can easily see the hurt insecure boy who is trying to be nice. It's harder to see the toddler having a fit.