uBPD Wife Gave Me Ultimatum to Move To Another State

[dacoming]

Hi to all.  I have been married to my wife for over 19 years and I strongly suspect she is BPD.  She is insanely jealous, always accuses me of cheating or doing things to intentionally hurt or upset her, constantly projects the things she does onto me, has intense anger episodes, chronic pain and sickness, severe control issues, et al.  There are so many things that have happened to drive me crazy I don't know where to start.  I will stick to the most recent situation.

Here's a little background.  I retired from the military last year.  The main reason for retiring was (1) my wife was tired of moving around and (2) my son was in the 9th grade about to go to the 10th and I wanted to get settled into one place so he wouldn't have to move again.  He has social anxiety issues and really hates change.  Prior to retiring, although she doesn't work, I asked my wife where did she want to settle.  Since she followed me around most of my career (believe me I've heard about if over and over), I told her to pick a place and I would look for a job there.  Since she is from Sacramento, California and that seems to be the only place we've been that she didn't complain about, I assumed that would be the place.  She was kind of undecided so she asked me.  I told her since she was from CA and I from NC, perhaps a place somewhere in the middle like San Antonio or Dallas would be cool, plus the job market is great.  Still no decision so I just decided to look in California exclusively and got an interview for a government position in San Francisco.  She claimed she did not want to go back to Cali or at least the Bay Area.  I told her jobs were hard to come by and we should go there if I was offered the job.  With me being the only person working and us having quite a bit of debt, I really needed something to come up quick so I can transition right into that job.  In addition, our two grown daughters (my step kids technically) were coming too.  She told me she would prefer TX and if I decided to take the job in San Francisco, I would be going alone and her and the kids would go to Dallas. 

That job didn't come through, and I started looking in Dallas.  I also found a position in Atlanta that was interesting and I knew she was interested in that area at one point.  She told me to apply and either place was good.  I ended up getting a good job with the IRS in Dallas so here we are.  We planned to stay here and not move again.  We've bought a house and got settled.  A few months after being here, she started complaining about the weather and saying she was afraid because tornadoes occasionally come through this area, although the area where we live is a very low risk.  All we've seen since being here is several thunderstorms.  We've been through these types of thunderstorms in multiple places but now, she puts 10 on every one that happens.  A few months ago, she told me to consider moving out of TX because she doesn't feel safe.  I told her I've heard nothing to come to the conclusion this place is unsafe to the point we have to uproot and move.  I have a good job and if we leave, there are several things to consider:  moving costs, selling the house, finding a new job, etc.  That's an extreme decision for something so small.  I told her I'd consider it down the road but definitely not within the next 2 years because we promised our son he would finish school here. 

Also, TX is known for these big roaches and gekkos that she does not like although they are harmless.  Our daughter found a small gecko in her room the other day so now she has intensified her desire to move.  We ended up getting into it because she was mad I had not come back to her with an answer about moving or basically, that I had not decided to move.  I reiterated to her my concerns and she went into this think about me thinking I control everything and that I'm not in control.  She brought up recent suggestions she made about buying a new truck and moving to a larger more expensive home.  She asked me about both and I told her I didn't think we could afford to at the moment.  She got mad and called me a ":)ebbie Downer" who always shoots down her good ideas because I like to disappoint her and the girls.  I told her it was not about control; she asked me what I thought and I told her. 

Anyway, Sunday she told me she wanted out of the marriage because she doesn't like who I am anymore and cannot be in a situation where she has to ask me to get a car or buy a house or move, etc.  I suggested we go to counseling and she was against it at the time.  Fast forward to yesterday, she texted me that she would go to counseling but she called me and gave an ultimatum to move.  She said she is taking our daughter, granddaughter and son and moving to Atlanta regardless.  If I want to be together, I would have to quit my job and move as well.  Of course she wants me to pay to get them out there and into a place.  I haven't responded with an answer.

One more thing, last night she started another debate about me controlling everything and making all of the big decisions because I have to sign all of the loan documents.  Keep in mind that she gets mad whenever I withdraw money out of the account because she can't track what it was spent on.  She feels it's unfair and she wants to now go get her own so she doesn't have to go through me.  She said she still could get cars and loans without me and I wouldn't be able to stop her.  She already got approved for a car before (obviously she lied on the application because she has no income outside of mine) and could have gotten it and I would have to pay the bill because we're married.  I told her I talk to her before I make any financial decision and express my feeling on whether or not we can afford to do something to her because I know if we can afford it or not.  My credit is affected and not hers.  She got mad and told me I was about me and not us because "we" are all paying these bills together.  She said my daughter cooks and they handle things around the house which means "we" pay.  She said they are not slaves and since I'm all about me, I will have to cook, clean etc as well.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[formflier]

 




I'm glad you found us.  You could be me... .several years ago.

I'm retired Navy.

The impact on your r/s (relationship) of retiring from the military is not to be underestimated... .a sense of security that she had is very likely gone... .plus... .things are just different.

Anyway... .please start reading the lessons... .and focus on LISTENING to your wife and SLOWING down conversations.

So... DO NOT give her answers... .ask clarifying questions... .active listening... .make sure you have her "point" correct... .and tell her you need to consider what she has said. 

Yes... this is stalling tactic... .but we need to get you smart on lessons (look to right of the screen)

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=56206

Link above to lessons.

Listen... most military guys are fixers... .problem solvers... .logical (am I correct I am describing you?)... .most pwBPD (people with BPD) are driven by the emotion of the moment

They are under no obligation (or feel that they aren't) to honor the emotions and decisions made while under yesterdays emotions.

When you really think about how different those two worlds are... .you start to appreciate that you have your work cut out for you.

You have seen that they will not make a decision or stick to one... .let them be the ones to fix the impact of that... .

Stop debating... .start listening... .

Looking forward to hearing from you... .

There is an "order to the disorder"... your life will get better... .we can help!

FF

[Cloudy Days]

Not being happy where they are is a common problem with people with BPD. They always seem to think a location change will help things. Me and my husband just bought our first house a couple months ago and I have been told several times that we are selling it and finding another home.

The lessons are very helpful, I like to start with Validation and how to avoid invalidation, that's a big one for keeping the peace so you can figure out bigger pictures.

She cannot move without your help so the likely hood of her uprooting everyone and moving to Georgia is slim to none. They like control and it sounds like she doesn't have much of it when it comes to spending money. Her world is based on emotions, emotions come and go. Just remember that when she says some of the things she says. It may indeed may be a fleeting emotion, it may be a reoccurring emotion but the emotion will change. I was told several times by my husband that he was moving to California, with or without me.

[Turkish]

Hi dacoming,

I'd like to join formflier in welcoming you here.

There's a lot going on here. You've made huge commitments, and your wife is "running" in a way, and fighting for control.

For things like the weather, or geckos, validation goes a long way, and practicing may help with the big things (like moving, or the financial issues).

Communication using validation. What it is; how to do it

From the article above:

Finding The Validation Target

Finding a validation target and mirroring it back from the other person's perspective (empathizing) is the crux of effective validating. There are two critical steps here. Finding the target. Empathizing with the other person.

An ideal target is one that is close to the other person's emotional epicenter.  It could be as simple as validating how the other person feels.  It could be mirroring back the other person's rationale of how they are seeing things and why they feel the way the way they do. It could be picking up on secondary elements what they're experiencing which are true, and confirming that.

Empathizing with the person when validating the validation target is extremely important. There is little empathy in saying “I'm sorry if not having the car tonight makes you feel bad”. It's much more empathetic to say "Wow, after telling your friends that you would drive everyone to the movie tonight, I can really understand how embarrassing not having the car is".[/color]

The reptiles and the weather aren't necessarily the problem, but triggers to deeper anxieties. I remember my Ex freaking out when ants got into the baby's room. She acted like they were going to eat his face off or something when after putting out non-toxic chemicals (which to me made sense as a first step), they didn't magically disappear overnight. I was blamed. I ended up escalating a fight by getting mad at her getting mad, or as I used to think "she's getting mad over little, stupid stuff!". The ants weren't the problem. How I dealt with her emotional dysregulation and how I didn't validate her fears was. Does this make sense given the context?

This may also help:

The Do's and Don'ts for a BP relationship

The financial issues seem to be a power struggle. Maybe she enjoyed more freedom when you were working and away from home. Unfortunately, this is an all too common struggle in relationships. My Ex had a lot of freedom and her own career, but since I made twice her salary, she tried to control what I did with my money to benefit us (her).

Turkish

[Notwendy]

I have some thoughts on this, being raised by mom with BPD and married to H with traits.  I've learned a lot from being an observer of a long marriage between my parents ( I don't know their private aspect) and some of the things we went though as a family and then, having my own family. Some issues and stresses are common to many families and marriages: finances, religion, the birth of a child, moving,empty nest, and more. What I observed is that the issues we faced as a family growing up were not unusual to families without dysfunction, but the way they were handled was dysfunctional. The point being: dysfunctional people can have normal problems and even reasonable complaints, but they handle them in a dysfunctional way. Once someone is labeled "dysfunctional" it is tempting to look at all their complaints through that lens, but they may bring up legitimate concerns among unreasonable ones.


The other idea is a book title " Wherever you go, there you are" which means that while moving might seem attractive to your wife, and she may be focusing on some details to support her case ( lizards) , the real issues that are between you and her, and your own individual issues are going to go with you  wherever you go. So, Texas has lizards and tornadoes, Atlanta can have hurricanes, and Ebola at Emory hospital ( I'm being wildly imaginative to illustrate that you can read something scary about anyplace.)

PwBPD tend to look outside themselves for reasons that are about them, but looking inside themselves is very uncomfortable so they would tend to look at other reasons for unhappiness and also a magic solution. My mother was still her, with the same unhappiness no matter where we lived ( and we moved a few times) and also was thinking that the "next move" or the "next place" would be better.

Finances are another issues that were problems for my parents, as well as my marriage. I can relate to feeling powerless and also acknowledged as a stay at home mom. My H abused his position as wage earner and did not give me credit for being the full time unpaid "work" in the home as well as child care. He also didn't help- deciding that was not his job. I spent years feeling like his unpaid employee ( with benefits).  Although he has made efforts to change, I still deal with the effects of this. My H considered it to be his money because he earned it, but he would have had a lot less time to focus on his job if he didn't have me taking care of the rest of his life. I wish he had said "we" instead of "I".

On the other hand, I watched my mother do little as far as contributing to the house and kids, and yet, spend money to the point that we were financially in trouble, all the while resenting my father who was chief wage earner. There wasn't much of a "we" in their dealings with money either.

My conclusion is that money issues have a basis in reality, and also a lot of emotion. Still, I think  a division in who earns to money, and the unpaid "work" at home  is something couples have to consider with sensitivity- and that isn't always present in a marriage with some dysfunction.

[dacoming]

Hi dacoming,


The financial issues seem to be a power struggle. Maybe she enjoyed more freedom when you were working and away from home. Unfortunately, this is an all too common struggle in relationships. My Ex had a lot of freedom and her own career, but since I made twice her salary, she tried to control what I did with my money to benefit us (her).

Turkish

I am working, I have a good job with the IRS.  That's why we came here.  And she still spends money how she wants to unless it's something like buying a house, a car, or something significant that I have to get a loan.  She can't get a loan by herself because she has no job or other source of income.  I wish she could do things in her name; I wouldn't say a word if she went out and bought something on her credit.  However, she would blame me if the bill couldn't get paid... .

She pressured me to buy her a convertible mustang back in 2013, about a year or so before I retired from the USAF.  At the time, I told her if it was me, I would wait to buy a car because I'm retiring and we do not know if I will have a job.  My thought was we should get settled and then see once a job comes through.  She went into an anger tirade about how I'm thinking I'm in control but I don't control everything and blah blah blah.  She took my wallet with my IDs and everything in it and told me she would not give it back until I bought her a car.  I had to leave the house for a while and she continued when I returned.   I gave in and we went and found a car the next day.  Fast forward to now, she wants to trade in that car for something else.  Mind you, this is a woman that doesn't drive anywhere.  Our daughter drives the car and her truck all the time and dirty it up inside and out for me to clean.

In the past, she has charged our credit cards up after arguments, transferred all of the money out of our account into her account while I was overseas, causing me to have to go to the First Sergeant for aid, on and on.  She hasn't done that in a while however and promises she will not.  I can never catch a breath and relax without there being something else I need to do.  

[Notwendy]

I don't think the emotions about money match up to the math.

From my perspective, mom pressured dad into buying all kinds of things. He bought her whatever she wanted, yet she still felt powerless.

I am very frugal, and believe I have "carried my weight" of contribution to the family, even if I didn't get paid for it. Yet, my H still feels taken advantaged of when it comes to money.

In both scenarios, they feel like "victims". Read more on the drama triangle to understand the payoff of "victim mode". One is not having to assume responsibility for one's actions. Also be aware of our own roles as nons on it.

[dacoming]

Finances are another issues that were problems for my parents, as well as my marriage. I can relate to feeling powerless and also acknowledged as a stay at home mom. My H abused his position as wage earner and did not give me credit for being the full time unpaid "work" in the home as well as child care. He also didn't help- deciding that was not his job. I spent years feeling like his unpaid employee ( with benefits).  Although he has made efforts to change, I still deal with the effects of this. My H considered it to be his money because he earned it, but he would have had a lot less time to focus on his job if he didn't have me taking care of the rest of his life. I wish he had said "we" instead of "I".

On the other hand, I watched my mother do little as far as contributing to the house and kids, and yet, spend money to the point that we were financially in trouble, all the while resenting my father who was chief wage earner. There wasn't much of a "we" in their dealings with money either.

My conclusion is that money issues have a basis in reality, and also a lot of emotion. Still, I think  a division in who earns to money, and the unpaid "work" at home  is something couples have to consider with sensitivity- and that isn't always present in a marriage with some dysfunction.

Thanks for your comments!  I always acknowledge the things she does (or did) for our household and have never regulated her spending.  I say did because now she doesn't cook, clean, buy groceries, nothing except tell everybody else what to do and how we are doing it wrong or how she does everything better and knows more.  She was in a few car accidents and has a bad back and nerve damage.  Even before that, she exaggerates how much she did and invalidates what I do.  Through the whole marriage, she has spent money how she saw fit and told me later, not keeping in mind sometimes which bills have or haven't been paid.  I only give input on big ticket decisions.  If anyone tries to control the money, it's her getting mad anytime I withdraw money out of the account.  Usually it's no more than $40 at a time and it's always a reason.  Sometimes I had to give a line by line account of how the money was spent.  According to her, I should go to her to get money if I need it.  Hell, our daughter goes in and out of our account and spends freely when she doesn't have a job and has a 1 year old child that we take care of because she can't.  Her cleaning up and cooking one meal a day is not too much to ask.  Our other daughter recently moved out because she constantly clashed with my wife.

[dacoming]

Anyway... .please start reading the lessons... .and focus on LISTENING to your wife and SLOWING down conversations.

So... DO NOT give her answers... .ask clarifying questions... .active listening... .make sure you have her "point" correct... .and tell her you need to consider what she has said. 

Yes... this is stalling tactic... .but we need to get you smart on lessons (look to right of the screen)

I try and will continue to try.  However, she is very irrational at times.  When I try to verify I have her point, she gets angry and criticizes me saying I seem to lack understanding or either I'm trying to annoy her on purpose.  She always insults me and throws out a series of putdowns which upset me.

She doesn't listen to me at all.  To make it worse, she twists everything around that I say to make it look like I said something else that I didn't say. 

Just the other day while we were arguing whether or not I include her in big financial decisions, she asked me to name a time when I did.  I told her I always include her which is true and I pointed specifically to  the move to TX and how I left it to her.  She turned and asked why am I trying to validate that point when I was the one that asked her the question.  She CLEARLY asked me the question because she was the one pointing blame at me!  She started a huge argument about that and called me a liar who turns things around on her!  I got so MAD because she does things and projects them on me.  She does it to everyone in the house.  One day she told me that our daughter (who already has a baby and no job) was talking to her about having another baby so that her current child can have a playmate.  I told her that if she decides to do something that irresponsible, I'm cutting off all of my support and she will be on her own.  My point was she is irresponsible and not ready as she can't take care of the baby she has.  This came out when she was lecturing my daughter on some things one day and my daughter said that my wife was the one who suggested her having another baby.  My wife hit the roof and went into a tirade denying it but there are similar incidents that have occurred with all of us.

[Notwendy]

I think the more you understand the lessons, the drama triangle, and our contribution to the relationship dynamics, you will begin to see that there are different perspectives: Reality, their story, our story.

It is important that we see the roles on the drama triangle and why they work. There is always a payoff to any behavior ( otherwise we humans would not do them. There is usually a cost to a behavior, but we continue when the payoff is higher than the cost, even if that cost is high. ( for example, alcoholism is harmful to ones health, but the alcoholic still drinks for the payoff).  This principle applies to any behavior, even positive ones- we study and like the good grade, we work for the paycheck.

For the pw PBD that I know, they seem to take the role of victim. The victim does not have to be responsible for their behavior, after all, they are the victim.

The rescuer- enabler gets a payoff too- often the hero, good guy, but there is a price to that- feeling taking advantage of.

Note that people can play several roles, and change roles.

The stage ( where you are) , setting, props ( lizards, car, money) can change but the roles are the same.

Change in any relationship starts with us, because we can only change ourselves. The lessons and the readings here on this thread are a good start.

[formflier]

She took my wallet with my IDs and everything in it and told me she would not give it back until I bought her a car.  I had to leave the house for a while and she continued when I returned.   I gave in and we went and found a car the next day.  

Boundaries... .

https://bpdfamily.com/content/values-and-boundaries

There are several other lessons... about this as well... .

And... .don't try to implement any new boundaries anytime soon... .we need to get you full of education from this site first.

Trying to uphold a boundary... .and folding... .is worse than never trying.

Again... trying to uphold a boundary... .and folding... .is BAD!

Very important to get it right... and stick to it.

FF

[dacoming]

All, thanks for the advice!  I will read the lessons.  I need advice to the big question:  How should I respond to my wife regarding the ultimatum to move?

From where I stand, I don't want to move at all but I might be willing to move sometime after my son graduates in 2 years, no sooner.  I figure she will put pressure on him to agree to move sooner which he would likely do because he wouldn't want her to be mad at him.  Even then, I need at least another 13 months to become a permanent employee.  That would make me eligible for a wider range of government vacancies.  Federal jobs are hard to get into; I was lucky to get this position.  We cannot afford to pick up and move all of our stuff to Atlanta including the vehicles.  We have 3 vehicles and three people currently able to drive however nobody else other than me is willing to drive.  Coming here, I drove the truck, pulled one car with a Uhaul trailer and paid to ship the other.  So doing the same thing plus getting all of our household goods there would be a lot of money.  I can look for a government job that pays relocation expenses but they are very few.  Then, we have to sell our house and I would need to find a job to move into.  

If I don't give in to her demands, she will start a huge argument and probably try to keep me up all night.  I was so stressed yesterday when I got home that my head was hurting down the back of my neck.  The closer it gets to the time I go home, the more anxiety I get.  A huge part of me just wants to end this whole thing and move on.  I've broken my back trying to please this woman and she never seems pleased, always complaining woe is me.  She drags me down emotionally and spiritually.  She doesn't seem to remember any good, always the bad.  And 90% of that is her imagination.

[dacoming]

She took my wallet with my IDs and everything in it and told me she would not give it back until I bought her a car.  I had to leave the house for a while and she continued when I returned.   I gave in and we went and found a car the next day.  

Boundaries... .

https://bpdfamily.com/content/values-and-boundaries

There are several other lessons... about this as well... .

And... .don't try to implement any new boundaries anytime soon... .we need to get you full of education from this site first.

Trying to uphold a boundary... .and folding... .is worse than never trying.

Again... trying to uphold a boundary... .and folding... .is BAD!

Very important to get it right... and stick to it.

FF

I try to set boundaries but she doesn't acknowledge any.  She harasses me, keeps me up all night and argue.  Then she pushes me to massage her late at night because it's my fault that she can't sleep and is in pain.  I think the only boundary is to leave.  I used to leave and go sleep at the office during my last assignment in the military and that would lead to more drama of her saying I disrespected the marriage and she's going to start leaving home during "discussions" too.  And she doesn't have to do the same thing I do when I leave (if you know what I mean).  She always says that and fails to acknowledge her role in anything.  If it wasn't for my son, I believe I would have been gone.  

[formflier]

All, thanks for the advice!  I will read the lessons.  I need advice to the big question:  How should I respond to my wife regarding the ultimatum to move?

Don't... .

Slow things down... .

If you feel the need to tell her something... .tell her there is a lot involved that you need to consider in order to give her a proper... .thoughtful... .response...

Read lessons on validation... .hopefully... you can validate her emotions... .without agreeing to her ideas...

If I don't give in to her demands, she will start a huge argument and probably try to keep me up all night.

Yes... .she will.  Because it works for her... .

She will stop doing this when it stops working for her... .(think about the implications of this... .)

    She drags me down emotionally and spiritually.

Don't go with her... .

When she gets on the "down we go" emotional and spiritual train... .wish her well... .and go do your own thing.

You are under no obligation to go with her.

She is under no obligation to like that you don't go... .

 She doesn't seem to remember any good, always the bad.  And 90% of that is her imagination.

Critical that you understand that these "remembrances" are emotions of the moment... .

You are dealing with emotions... .not logic. 

Validation and avoiding invalidation are key... .CRITICAL!

Get on the lessons... .read... .ask questions.

FF

[formflier]

 I think the only boundary is to leave.  

There are many options... .the key is to stick with it... .

Is there another room in the house you can sleep in... .that has a door lock.   And a place you can keep ear muffs (for sound)... .or even better... .noise cancelling headphones... .

Your wife does not need to acknowledge your boundaries... .only you do.  They are yours... .if you value them... .YOU... take action to protect them.

Boundaries are not about making your wife happy... sad... .mad... .they are about protecting you. 

So... .the thinking is... you have a right to sleep.  We all do.  That is your business to sort out.  It would be nice if your wife helped... .but it's not her obligation.

Your wife has pain and can't sleep.  It's her business to sort out.  It's nice if you help... .but if it drags you down... .and she is not appreciative... .let her sort herself out.

Many times people will rescue themselves... .when others stop rescuing them...

FF

PS... .think... .make plans... .don't take action.  This info is fresh... .let us work through it with you.

[dacoming]

All, thanks for the advice!  I will read the lessons.  I need advice to the big question:  How should I respond to my wife regarding the ultimatum to move?

If I don't give in to her demands, she will start a huge argument and probably try to keep me up all night.

Yes... .she will.  Because it works for her... .

She will stop doing this when it stops working for her... .(think about the implications of this... .)

I'm not giving in on this one.  Any suggestions on what to do when she tries to keep me up all night?  She follows me all over the house.  If I had somewhere to go, I would.

[dacoming]

 I think the only boundary is to leave.  

There are many options... .the key is to stick with it... .

Is there another room in the house you can sleep in... .that has a door lock.   And a place you can keep ear muffs (for sound)... .or even better... .noise cancelling headphones... .

One time I went into a room and locked the door, only for her to take off the door knob and come in anyway.  She then antagonized me and picked at me until I had to leave the house.

[formflier]

 

OK... .on the keeping you up at night thing... .I'm going to give my opinion... I'm hoping other senior members will chime in.

I have sleep disabilities... .so... .I had to make a stand and "keep my bed". 

That meant I laid there and listened to a bunch of nonsense... .until my wife got tired and went to sleep.

That sucked... .

But... .it rarely happens anymore.

Months... .

In fact... .seems like a few weeks ago there was some concern at about 1 in the morning... .I listened... did some active listening... .and said something to the effect of "Honey... I'm probably not making a bit of sense... .I have to get some sleep... .I'll focus on this first thing in morning... "  (note... I didn't ask permission... .)

There was no drama... .we slept... problem didn't seem as big in morning... I don't even remember what it was now.

FF

[formflier]

 

Tactics discussion

So... .part of me says that you need to hold your ground and let her see that you are not going to talk to her... just because she demands it. (stay in same room... let her speak... you don't)

However... .the other side of me says that can be see as passive aggressive challenge... plus... .she can see you... .and that will keep her "hyped up".

If you go in another room... she knows you are in there... .and may see it as a challenge to get to you.  So... she keeps going.

If you leave the house and go to a hotel... .you are out of sight... out of mind... .and she may calm. 

The other side of me says that she then controls when you come and go from the house... with her rages.

It's a tough pickle... .but it is critical that you do not "give in" and have discussions with her late at night.

It will take a while... .but once she realizes "it" isn't working anymore... the dynamic will change... .we can't predict exactly how... but it will.

FF

Others... .please chime in... this may be the first boundary!   

[Notwendy]

In many relationships like this, the couple triggers each other. These night fights go on as if they were scripted. In ours, my H would sound like the poor husband who could not sleep if not for me, who started these fights at night. Indeed, I was the one who broke down first- as I might try to talk to him, he would say something hurtful, I'd react, and then he could make it all my fault.

It took counseling to get us to agree to no night fights. Our therapist pointed out that discussions when we are hungry, tired, or otherwise stressed are not a good time, and to put what we want to talk about off to a better time. For my H, that "better time" was in about 100 years as he would rather not talk about issues that are possibly difficult. He was like "Halleluyah she is gonna shut up at night once and for all".

And, I did. I took her advice, and what happened? He started the night fights. He would say something and I'd bite the hook and it would be off to the races, until I realized- I don't have to bite at the invitation to an argument.

What you may need to do might not be as dramatic as leaving the room or getting a hotel room, but it might. It may mean not reacting. We tend to get triggered and reactive ourselves in these situations. Can you stay calm while she may be saying mean things to you? Can you not react right away? You might try validating her feelings, not the facts. " I understand you want a car, but I am too tired to discuss it right not. She might rage away, try to get you angry, say mean things, but eventually, she will see that it doesn't work.

You can't control her, but you can change your side of the situation. Couples fight as a pattern. Don't bite the hook.

[formflier]

What you may need to do might not be as dramatic as leaving the room or getting a hotel room, but it might. It may mean not reacting. We tend to get triggered and reactive ourselves in these situations. Can you stay calm while she may be saying mean things to you?

Notwendy is right on point here... . 

Can you give us some word for word... .or certainly more detail about the last time that you did a late night blowup?

I like to think of this as an "energy" problem... .fights take energy... .one partner puts some in... .the other partner puts some in... .each side keeps putting in energy... .until... you have a nice warm fire going!   

So... .if YOU determine... that you will not put energy in... .it might just be a "grumpy" night... .

[Notwendy]

Also, about the ultimatum that she is going to move to another state. I have lost count of how many times my mother threatened to move with us.  She really couldn't . In fact, she has made statements that she is going to do something - and what she wants to do is either unreasonable. It is when I REACT to her statement- and make statements about that statement,  that I step in the muck.

The muck = the triangle.

Mom = I am going to do this

Me= I don't think this is a good idea because of x... .y... .z... .( all valid points) but at that point I become the PERSECUTOR

Persecutor: You can't do that.

Victim: this horrible person says I can't do this, she is controlling me, invalidating me. I must defend myself and get angry... .etc... .


My H doesn't make threats like that, but conversations can go a similar direction if there is any sense I am being critical.

Boundaries are not what we impose on someone else. A boundary on "no night fights" does not start with expecting your wife not to fight. It starts with you not reacting in the way things have been- taking a different course. You might not know what it is, but it isn't doing the same thing you have been doing, so maybe try not being as reactive.

So she is gonna move, or whatever. Try not reacting to that either. She could still move, but I would be willing to guess that she is looking for your reaction to her ultimatum.

[DevilYouKnow]

For what it's worth, I'm in a very similar position (active duty military with a uBPDw).  I've gotten plenty of ultimatums on divorce/moving/etc., but I've had a similar experience to Notwendy in that she doesn't follow through with any of it even if I don't give in to her demands.  I don't try to argue or reason with her anymore when she's like that and it usually deescalates and goes away on its own as her attention quickly turns to something else.  I get a lot of it after each move-- my wife tends to idealize the next duty station and how perfect everything is going to be there, so when it inevitably disappoints her with reality she wants to try something else.  Maybe you're just dealing with her anxiety of settling into a new life and it will settle down some as that becomes more comfortable to her.  If you are working and your kids are in school or out of the house all day, what is your wife doing?  If my wife is alone and bored it's like pouring gasoline on her BPD, so maybe you can get her engaged in something that interests her (part-time job, club, volunteering, etc.)?

--DYK

[dacoming]

What you may need to do might not be as dramatic as leaving the room or getting a hotel room, but it might. It may mean not reacting. We tend to get triggered and reactive ourselves in these situations. Can you stay calm while she may be saying mean things to you?

Notwendy is right on point here... . 

Can you give us some word for word... .or certainly more detail about the last time that you did a late night blowup?

I like to think of this as an "energy" problem... .fights take energy... .one partner puts some in... .the other partner puts some in... .each side keeps putting in energy... .until... you have a nice warm fire going!   

So... .if YOU determine... that you will not put energy in... .it might just be a "grumpy" night... .

We had just had an argument one night.  I let it go but for the rest of the night, she was throwing jabs at me and to the girls about me. She then complained about her foot and leg pain and blamed me for rubbing it wrong the other day.  According to her, that was when the pain started.  She then complained about the bed and told me that the way I set it up had her back hurting all night.  I had told her the night before prior to setting it up to test it and let me know if it was okay.  I would adjust until she was comfortable.  She had mentioned something about our daughter fixing it so I tried to confirm if she fixed it or if I needed to.  She ignored me after I asked twice.  Then she started cursing and implying I was trying to upset her on purpose because she didn’t believe me about the meeting earlier, insulting me about my lack of understanding for a person as “educated as me”, etc etc.   She said I knew that she had just said our daughter was supposed to fix it and was being an ass.  I told her I didn’t get that part, that’s why I tried to confirm.  She then said I was going to keep on until she hit me or let me have it.  After a few minutes I asked her if she wanted me to fix the bed.  She said I knew that she was watching TV and it would have to wait.  I told her that was fine; I was just asking.  Once I laid down to go to sleep around 1030, she asked me to fix the bed.  I got up and asked her how did she want it.  She told me to use my brain and figure it out.  I knew how she was laying so that should tell me how to set it up.  I told her I wasn’t sure.  If she would just tell me what she wanted, I’d do it.  She sat down and smoked and told me she was going to sit there and let me figure it out.  She said she knew I wasn’t that dumb and told me she could call either one of the girls in and they would have an idea what to do.  I always ask her how she wants things done because she’s hard to please and it’s easier.  The girls actually do the same thing.  It didn’t have to go this far.  I attempted to fix it and she complained and insulted me for not getting it right.  Finally I just laid down and told her I wasn’t going to worry about it either since she wasn’t going to tell me.  She said she was going to wait until the middle of the night when I’m sleep and wake me up to do it.  I grabbed my stuff and went and laid down on the floor in the living room.  She followed me.  She told me not to sleep on “her” couch.  I told her I didn’t want to.  She continually harassed me and told me to get ready for her to wake me up in the middle of the night.  When I didn’t respond, she took my wallet and told me she wasn’t going to give it back.  I continued to lay there.  She came back downstairs to tell me that our daughter was ready to fix the bed and for me to come up to help.  I went up there and our daughter and I were adjusting the mattress, trying to fix it to her satisfaction.  While I was doing that, she was constantly making fun of me and antagonizing me, rubbing my head, laughing, getting in my face when I tried to walk, etc.  Finally, I just grabbed my uniform, a blanket/pillows, phone and keys and left the house.  I slept at the office on the floor.  She kept calling and sending messages; I only answered one or two.  She told me that I blew something small out of proportion and left the house which she has told me was a deal breaker.  I told her that she didn’t respect me or any of my boundaries and I wasn’t going to continue to accept that.  She implied that she will do her own thing from now on, as in see other people.

[formflier]

  I told her that she didn’t respect me or any of my boundaries and I wasn’t going to continue to accept that.  

You need to show her... .CONSISTENTLY

Lots of learning here before you try this... .but... .start thinking about telling less... .showing more.

More to come.

FF

[formflier]

 

All of Lesson 4 would be appropriate.

Please read

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=118892.0

And

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=106107

first.

Post your comments and reactions here... .we can help guide you on how to apply this in your r/s.

Your questions/reactions to reading this might be a good place to start another post.

I used to live your life... .with similar results... .the changes will feel weird to you... .but you will end up in a better place.

FF

[dacoming]

If my wife is alone and bored it's like pouring gasoline on her BPD, so maybe you can get her engaged in something that interests her (part-time job, club, volunteering, etc.)?

Amen!  I was told this a long time ago and when she had a job (albeit for a short time) things were better.  She keeps saying she wants to work but it's always, "I'm in too much pain, or The depression is keeping me down or This marriage is keeping me down" et al.  The other day she said my career in the military kept her from having a career and I get that to a point.  However, I haven't seen her make an attempt to do anything.  She is great at doing hair and was in school to be a cosmetologist before we got married.  However, she quit well before we got married and only had a short time to go.  We've been stationed places up to 5 and a half years.  To me that was time for you to do something if you wanted to.

--DYK

[Cloudy Days]

Idol Hands are the Devils Playground... .My husband goes crazy when he is board and left to his own thoughts.

Maybe she can become a representative for pampered chef or partylite or one of those types of companies that she basically books parties and she doesn't have to continue to see the same people over and over again. That is where my husband always had problems. If he didn't like someone he would avoid work, or blow up at them, which would lead to getting fired or just quitting. If she is charismatic as it seems most people with BPD are (it may be fake but it's still charisma) then she should be able to talk to people about product. It's not a 9-5 job, it would give her something to do a sense of accomplishment and she can set her own schedule. I know it's a long shot because jobs and PwBPD don't always mix.

I also wanted to say that her not giving you an answer about how to do her bed, gives her the excuse to keep going off on you. You could not have done it correctly, no matter what. My husband will pull these kinds of things, I ask he does not answer. If they leave it up to you then they can blame you for it being wrong. It is insanity at it's best I believe and it's one of the hardest on me. I take direction well but I don't always get clear instruction on what he wants, and I think he does it on purpose or he just doesn't know what he wants, which could be another side of it. I feel for you, you have a lot of boundaries to set, don't forget to chisel out some you time, you need to be able to refresh your mind after dealing with so much dysfunction.