Does My Wife Have BPD? Please Help

[BrokenNConfused]

Hello everyone.  I am new to the forum and this is my first post.  I am not sure if I am in the right place and that is the purpose of this initial post.  I am seeking help in determining if my wife has BPD or not.

I will try to summarize this initial post in bullet points because the relationship and marriage span a long time.  I apologize for the length in advance.

-Wife and I are both 35 years old.  Together for 14 years.  Married for 13 years.  We have a 6 year old son and a 2 year old daughter.

-My wife just filed for divorce.  I love her and my children and do not want to get divorced.

-At 21 years old, when we first starting dating, she disclosed to me that she had been molested by her brother as a young girl.  She also had a very tumultuous relationship with her father but a close relationship with her mother.

-She displayed an aversion to intimacy (both emotional and sexual) from the beginning of our relationship that never really went away.  Over the years I have seen her have panic attacks during sex.  She told me this was due to her abuse from her brother.  We would consistently go through spans of weeks, sometimes months with no sexual intimacy.  We did not even have sex on our honeymoon.

-We were married 15 months after we started dating.

-She consistently displayed controlling tendencies throughout our relationship.  She paid the bills.  She decided what we could and could not buy.  The house had to be cleaned and vacuumed daily.  Chores and tasks had to be done a certain way and on her timeframe etc.  

-She displayed somewhat of a jealousy of my outside interests:  For example I was a musician and the time I spent toward that seemed to be a problem for her.  I had also been in the military during the initial years of our marriage and she always recalled that time as a time that I was "always gone".

-For the first 8 years of our relationship / marriage it was just the two of us.  After the first year or two I started doing all the things that I thought would make her consistently happy and would possibly get  her "wall" to drop.  I would go above and beyond with getting the house cleaned everyday when I got home from work (if I was the first one home) etc.  I found myself spinning my wheels.  

-Nothing I ever did seemed to change her overall demeanor.  She was always described by my family as "the Ice Queen" because she always seemed to keep people at an arms distance.  For me it was difficult because even though she loved me, and there were times where that love was very affectionately displayed, it was mixed in with long periods of what seemed like "moodiness".

-If we hadn't had any physical intimacy for a period of time (sometimes a month or more) and I tried to address it I was called "pushy".  Or "annoying" about it.

-She consistently cut me down verbally both behind closed doors and in front of others.  But it was always mixed with love.  Very confusing.  And it was subtle sometimes/

-I made a logical (or what I thought was) connection between her sexual abuse and her aversion to consistent intimacy (both emotional and sexual).  When we were about 25 or 26 years old, after being together and married for 4 or 5 years, I convinced her to go to therapy.  She did it for a short period of time.  Never really talked about it with me and then stopped and said it was a waste of time and wasn't doing anything for her.

-We had our first child when we were 29, after being together for 8 years.  Her controlling nature immediately shifted to parenting.  I felt as if she replaced me with our son, and was extremely critical about how I did things with him (diapers, feeding etc).  She very quickly stopped sleeping with me and started co-sleeping with him.  She was adamant about being a stay at home mom and that was something I wanted to give her.  At the time it was fine because I had a good job and it financially made sense.

-When my son was 9 months old we decided to move back to our home state.  We had been living out of state away from friends and family for 8 years.  We made the move with the intent of staying with my parents for a few months.  This was in 2009, and the economy was awful.  A few months turned into 18 months as I struggled to find work and resorted to working odd jobs.  :)uring this time I started to slip into a depression.  My wife refused to work to help us out financially because she was so fixated on having to do everything for our son (even though we were living with my parents who could have easily helped us with childcare).

-She continued to immerse herself deeper into our son and I became more and more withdrawn.  After years of "not doing things the right way" and now it carrying over into how I did things with my son and the stresses of moving, financial stress, living with my parents, I feel like I kind of snapped.  Like this mindset of "If I'm not doing it right, than do it all yourself".

-This dynamic spiraled us downward over the course of the last 5 or 6 years that has ultimately led us to where we are now:  getting a divorce.

-During these last 5 or 6 years I experienced depression and anxiety and panic attacks.  My wife threw herself full force into our children and I worked and at home was withdrawn with my kids and her.

-I made many attempts with her to try and solve our marital problems.  To try and rebuild our relationship.  Nothing worked.

-We got to the point where we weren't sleeping in the same bed anymore (I wanted to).

-After our second child was born, we did not have sex for over 2 years (now it is over 3 years).  I always wanted to.  She would not.  She would do "other things" but mostly begrudgingly and even would get nasty and hit me if I tried to touch her.

-It took me almost a year to get her to go to marriage counseling.  By this time our relationship was non-existent.  She had the children who were her entire world and I had become the depressed husband who in her eyes was the absentee husband and father.

-I had hoped that when we started marriage counseling that the counselor would be able to help my wife see how her behaviors had contributed to the deterioration of our marriage.  But counseling became a process by which she seemed to be able to point the finger at me and my behaviors as the main culprit and seemed to be able to get the counselor to go along with it.

- After several months of counseling I was not seeing any progress on her part.  Intimacy was still very much dry.  This is where I made a HUGE mistake.  I was contacted by an ex who expressed interest in me.  We talked for a few weeks.  Met twice.  We kissed.  She wanted to have sex with me.  I wanted to but I didn't.  I ended it before it went any further.

-My wife found out what had happened by looking on my computer and exposed it in a counseling session.  She was very hurt (and rightfully so).  I felt tremendous guilt and did not lie or try and deny it.  The counselor called it an "emotional affair".

-My wife agreed to continue counseling and working on the relationship.  We did so for about another 5 months but nothing improved.  

-Then in November 2014 she told me she wanted a 3 month temporary separation so she could have some space and get to where she felt "neutral" about me.  We agreed that after 3 months I would come home and we would be more pro-active on restoring our relationship.  We also agreed to continue counseling and "dating" while separated.  She also agreed to start attending individual counseling to work on her own issues while I worked on my issues.

-As the "temporary" separation went on she became more and more distant and cold.  3 months came and she "wasn't ready for me to come home". She was "working on herself to become a better person".

-Around this time I started hearing about "Mommy's friend" through my children.  A man whom I didn't know.  When I first spoke to her about him she said he was someone whom she grew up with and that she had ran into him.  They were friends.  Nothing major.  He had met the kids a couple times.  Very downplayed.

-4 months into the "temporary separation", my Wife goes away for a weekend to a wedding of other friends whom she grew up with whom I don't know.  Says she is going as a guest of another woman.  Much later, I would find out that the wedding was for the brother of "Mommy's friend",  

-A week after this wedding I convinced my Wife to get together so we could talk about me moving back home and ending the separation.  The talk went south when we started to talk about sex and intimacy.  She started saying things like "She only ever had problems with sex with me", We aren't a fit", "There's never been a spark"  ":)on't you want to be with someone who makes you feel alive?".  Then she goes on to tell me that she had sex every single day with her past boyfriends.  Well I lost it and got very angry that she was saying these things after 14 years.

-After I lost my temper she proclaimed herself to be "done" with me.  

-I spent the next 4 months (April - July) trying to convince her to work things out.  She became colder and colder and the threats of divorce started.

-During this timeframe I started hearing more and more about her friend.  Sometime in May, I took a look at our cell phone records and discovered that she and him had been talking on the phone every single day since January 11th.  Multiple times per day.  They racked up about 300 phone calls and nearly 6000 minutes from January to May.

-When I confronted her about this again it was downplayed.  "Yes we talk everyday.  No nothing is going on.  He is an amazing friend".

-Things continued to escalate.  Her threatening divorce.  Me trying to convince her to work things out.  I also continued to hear more and more about the other guy through my kids.  As summer came, I found that he was going with my family to the beach, to the boardwalk rides, fireworks, etc... .it started to seem to me as if she was replacing me with him.  All the while reacting with rage and anger anytime I pointed out how inappropriate it was.  Her constantly claiming that he is just a friend.

She finally filed for divorce.  She says she hates me.  That this is all my fault.  She says I "abandoned her and the kids" (referring to my depression).  "She deserved better.  They deserve better".  She doesn't love me.  Isn't attracted to me.  She tried to "will herself to try" but can't forgive me (for the depression and my brief mistake with my ex).  She's "moved on".  That she had come to terms with her sexual abuse and that I was the one who made it an issue (even though for 14 years she told me that that was the reason she struggled with sex).  That I "destroyed her" and any hope she had for love.  That she never wants to be with anyone again.

Her divorce demands she and her lawyer drafted up are ridiculously one sided.  Her "friendship" with this other guy has been taken way underground.  They no longer talk on the phone, but I know for a fact that now they simply "Facetime" every night because it doesn't show up on the cell phone bill.

She has not told our kids yet.  They still think I am eventually coming home.  They ask nearly everyday when I am coming home.

It is heartbreaking.

I know that was a long summation.  Let me reiterate that I own and am accountable for my 50% of the marital downfall.  I am not writing this to bash my wife.  But I focused on her behaviors over the course of our 14 years together because:   My question is if anyone thinks that it is possible that she has BPD.  

Any help or insight would be gratefully appreciated.  I feel that I have lost her forever and it is like she has become someone whom I never knew.  

Please don't hesitate to ask me any clarifying questions or to go into more detail about anything.

Thank you everyone.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

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[BrokenNConfused]

Anyone?  Please.

[Eodmava]

Dear BrokenNConfused,

It's hard to read your post... .I feel like I am talking to a younger version of myself.  Everything from the military to the timing of your children and on and on... .

So.  I have to say that YES... .your wife has BPD... .just my opinion but based on what you describe I have no doubts.

Now, couple of things that I would recommend focusing on:

1.) You need to focus on YOU!  Your children need YOU to be healthy.  One healthy and emotionally stable parent is absolutely critical.

2.) Understand that there is NOTHING you can do to change her behavior. 

3.) There are techniques available on this website that will help you learn to deal with her behavior, but you have to tap into that military discipline and learn to not react to her provocations. 

4.) Get the best lawyer you can and fight for as much custody as your finances and career can withstand.

Do everything you can to study up on BPD and you will understand that her behaviors have NOTHING whatsoever to do with you.  The anger, distance, etc etc. is a direct result of what happened to her long before you met her.

BPD's love police and military types - strong, protector, etc... .

I have so much to share with you but just understand that you are about to walk a VERY hard road... .start grieving the end of your marriage now so that you can be healthy for your children.  It's tough because you have to grieve a past that she doesn't remember the way you do, a present that is screwed up and a future that can be ominous.

Finally - you can do this... .it's gonna suck... .no sugar coating it... .but when you come  out the other side you will find that your life is better for it.  Promise.

MAVA

[Mutt]

Hi BrokennConfused,



I'm sorry to hear that. I completely understand. We can't diagnose our partners and we can look at traits of the borderline personality type. I can relate with how that feels like when we're in marriage counseling and our partners point the fingers at us that we are the problem in our marriage. BPD is a persecution complex. I like how you say you're owning your half, a relationship takes two people.

My ex didn't want to have sex and we didn't have sex for a couple of years and she started an emotional affair and I confronted her and asked her if she was talking to someone else. She downplayed it and said that there was no one else and still downplayed her emotional / physical affair after she had left. At the root of the disorder is shame; she blamed me and said I didn't get it with our marriage. She was emotionally detaching. I understand the heartbreak.

Does she talk to you?

How are your kids?

[BrokenNConfused]

EOD and Mutt.  Thank you so much for your replies. 

She does not talk to me about anything accept the kids and finances.  In her mind, the marriage is over.  The divorce papers are filed and I have been served.

My children, in my opinion, are not doing well.  Especially my son.  He is 6 and is very bright and in tune.  My daughter is only 2, also very bright but her age has protected her a little more from this.  Though it does effect her as well.

The main issue with the kids is that my Wife does not and has not addressed the issue with them at all.  As if it doesn't exist.

When I hesitantly agreed to a temporary three month separation back in November and told my son he was heartbroken.  He said "three months is like a whole summer vacation".

Now, here we are 9 months later.  She has filed for divorce and my children still don't know.  My son said to me just a few days ago, after them spending the night with me at my parents house, that he didn't want us to be separated anymore.  That he was upset that he didn't get to see me all the time and that "the least I could do was come home".

The fact that she has not had the moral courage to even speak to our children about what she has decided to do, in my opinion, is a sign of instability in and of itself.

I do not want this divorce.  I didn't even want the separation.  It's like I intuitively knew what was going to happen.  I did not anticipate a "replacement".  But what do I know?  He's just an "amazing friend" who she talks to every single day, lies about the time they spend together and spends twisted "family time" with him and my children instead of me 

[Eodmava]

BnC,

I understand that it hurts, believe me, I really, truly, do understand.  I was exactly where you are in the summer of 2011... .and it hurts like hell.  The good news is that it hurts specifically because you are healthy and you really do care about her and your children. 

Now the challenge for you is going to be letting go.  It's sometimes the hardest part of truly loving someone... .detaching from them with love. 

Your priority needs to be your own well being and closely behind that is your children's well being... .don't neglect your own needs... .a healthy you is what your children really need. 

You are the only adult in this equation... .sounds like your ex's behavior reflects a degree of emotional arrest in her childhood.  The fact that your younger child is a little girl - with an older brother - is probably triggering in the extreme to your wife.

As the only adult in the situation, you are going to have to step up and protect your children.  You are going to have to explain the divorce situation to them.  Can't emphasize this to you strongly enough... .you are the only adult.

A very good friend of mine - Army SOF guy - said to me... .after I, having explained the situation to him, was lamenting my future... .he said, "you are going to have to be Sully."  I was confused... ."what do you mean?" I asked him... .he said "like Sullenberger... .the pilot who landed his plane in the Hudson after the engines flared out... .your co-pilot (wife) just went crazy and the engines are flaming out... .you need to land this f---ing plane... .your children are the passengers." 

Are you seeing a therapist for yourself?  Preferably someone who understands BPD.

Do you have a lawyer?  The fight is on and you might not want to but you have to fight to protect your children... .this disorder is contagious... .

No more fear, no more obligation, no more guilt.

Mava

[BrokenNConfused]

Mava,

The answer is yes to both having a lawyer and to seeing a Therapist who understands the disorder.

My Therapist, who is an absolutely wonderful woman, is working with me on exactly what you have suggested:  Getting myself mentally healthy and strong so I can be the best version of myself for myself and for my children.

I understand why you kept stating that I am the only adult in the situation.  How my wife handled this entire separation, dragged it out to three times the length it was supposed to be, didn't consider any of my ideas or recommendations of a proactive and solution oriented approach to healing our relationship and working toward reconciliation, unilaterally deciding that divorce was the best option for "all parties":  All of this is very limited thinking.

I was with my children this evening and again they both brought up the situation to me.  My 2 year old daughter told me as I was putting her to bed that she was sad and wanted me to be with her, mommy and her brother.  Shortly after that my 6 year old son told me that me not being at home is the hardest thing he has ever gone through and asked me to try and convince mommy to let me come home.  I told him that I have tried and he told me that just because I have failed to not give up  :'(

As I made mention of, she has not told them.  And I agree that the responsibility of that is on my shoulders now.

I have a couple of questions.  I've read about high functioning and low functioning.  I would say that from my experience my Wife is high functioning and comorbid with NPD.  She is a very good mother from the standpoint of being very organized and active in the care of the children.  The kids are her entire world.  But she is also very rigid and controlling of them.  My father calls her an excellent "caretaker" but lacking in emotional connection.

Is this typical?  For a high functioning to be a highly involved and attentive stay at home mother?

My other question is this:  Is there anything at all that I can do or say to possibly pursued her to put the divorce on hold and give Therapy and Counseling a chance? 

My gut feeling is that the answer is going to be "no" but if anyone has any ideas I am willing to try anything because at this point, I have nothing to lose.

I must say that seeing the responses that have confirmed my theory of her condition has done some good to lift some weight off of my mind.  It's kind of a vindication and a validation for me.  I've always known there was something off.  I never thought that eventually things would spiral so far out of control that it would come to this.  I also never thought that after the first 8 years of our marriage that I would get to a breaking point and become so mentally unhealthy myself.  But here we are 6 years after my initial breaking point and 14 years into the relationship and it has become something that I never would have imagined.

[Mutt]

Hi BrokenNConfused,


My ex is low functioning and she's active with the kids with programs and volunteering at the schools, she's also clingy and the kids are an extension of her ( enmeshment )

She filed with no chance of reconciliation? She only talks about kids and finances. You don't talk about anything else like therapy and counseling?

My ex didn't want to talk about our marriage because it triggered shame with her affair. You're in a really tough spot if there's another person in the picture, you're in a triangle.

[BrokenNConfused]

Yes.  She filed with no chance of reconciliation.  We stopped marriage counseling about two months into the separation (insurance glitch).  She was attending IC at the time as well.  We were supposed to pickup marriage counseling again once our insurance kicked back in.  Well by the time the insurance kicked back in, around month 4 of the separation, she had made up her mind that she was "done".

I have spent the last 4-5 months doing everything I can to try and convince her to not file for divorce.  To take a slow approach toward reconciliation.  I bought books on rebuilding relationships.  Addressed and changed the behaviors of mine that were contributors to the marriage breakdown.  But nothing worked.  Nothing.

She just got colder and meaner.  Until she finally filed for divorce at the end of last month.  I was served with papers about 2 weeks ago.

The last conversation I attempted to have with her was about a week or so ago.  It was a final attempt on my part to ask her to please not do this.  To just try, proactively, to see if we can reconcile.  She has basically shut me out for the last 9 months.  :)oesn't / Didn't talk to me.  :)idn't spend time with me.  No family time together.  No dating.  Nothing.  

She has stated that I "destroyed her and any chance she had at love" and that she "never wants to be with anyone ever again", even though all signs point toward she is in some kind of replacement relationship with her friend.

She has even stated that she tried to will herself to give us another chance but "knows herself" and knows that she could never love me again.  That she hates me.  :)oesn't love me.  Isn't attracted to me.  Can't stand the site of me.

(Split Black)

She has also said that she "thinks I am a better person than she is because I am able to forgive her for her transgressions and have the ability to move past our past problems and still love her and want to move forward with her while she cannot get herself to feel the same" (feelings = fact).

I cannot prove 100% that my wife is involved in an affair with her friend.  But short of catching them in bed together I have seen every single red flag that exists.  

She is even at the point now where instead of talking to him via phone calls (because they show up on our cell bill) they are talking on FaceTime every night because it remains invisible on the bill.  I found this out through some snooping.

I am convinced that my W is not well and that there is a strong possibility that she is an uBPD.  Her history of sexual abuse as a young girl and the prevalent patterns of her emotional distancing, sexual aversions, intimacy aversions, anger etc all add up to at the very least BPD / NPD personality traits that are consistent over a 14 year timeframe of close observation of it.  Having said this, I believe that the stresses of the last 5 or 6 years, that included me going through depression and anxiety issues and me engaging in a brief almost affair after over 2 years of no sex with her pushed her to the edge of a trigger that painted me and our entire marriage black.

If only I could get her to agree to put the divorce proceedings on hold.  Get her to see a counselor that specializes in BPD treatment, while I continue my therapy and work on my own issues, and attend marriage counseling that maybe we could save our marriage and spare our two young children the pain that they are about to endure.

[Mutt]

Hi BrokenNConfused,

I completely understand how hard this is when we're trying to stop a divorce. I didn't get married to get divorced. My kids were 1, 5, 7 at the time. I found a support group for separation /divorce before I got here and none of the advice worked and a family member came forward and said "BPD" and it all made sense.

If she's mean and cold and you're split black I suggest to not talk about things that trigger shame, we can't control if we're split black or white. It doesn't happen all at once. How she sees people is not as an integrated whole but as either "all good" or "all bad" and it sounds like she's idealizing the friend and devaluating you?

It's heartbreaking for the kids and fortunately they are young and not teenagers, you can be the emotionally healthy person that can raise the kids. The kids will cope and thrive with dad. I chose to exit the r/s when she was in a committed r/s with someone else and I chose to work on me in T and I learned about BPD and the communication tools so I could cope and talk with mom after the split to bridge a gap for our families.

No one knows what's going to happen if she'll change her mind about the divorce. How about learning about the disorder and communication tools like SET?

[DevilYouKnow]

BnC,

I can relate to a lot of what you say.  I only recently became educated on BPD, so I've been mostly dealing with my uBPDw wrong for my entire marriage (although I am doing a lot better now thanks to the resources on this site).  I'm no expert, and my experience is not your experience, but it's all I have to offer. 

My wife split me black after our first child was born.  I hadn't experienced anything like that before, so I took her at her word and figured the problem was me.  I tried harder, and the more I did, the more she hated me.  I think when pwBPD is pushing you that trying so desperately to stay close only ratchets up their behavior.  My wife had several affairs over the course of a year or two, then found one guy who was Mr. Perfect and told me she wanted a separation and divorce.  I'd fought it as long as I could and was honestly going crazy myself, and there wasn't anything I could do to change her perception that he was all white and I was all black, so I said fine.  I went to Afghanistan for a year and cleared my head (how's that for proof of how dysfunctional my relationship was?) while she prepared to move in with this guy and start her new life.  She pretty quickly found out that he didn't measure up to the idealized version of him she had in her head and swung back to me--I think it's called recycling.  We patched things up and we still have plenty of challenges and bad times, and we still live with her BPD and a host of my issues (PTSD, depression, codependency), but that's just life and I'm in it to make sure the kids come out okay.

I think everyone else has already given out all the useful advice.  If she is uBPD and she is pushing you/painting you black, there isn't any logical way to change her mind and it may be making it worse to try.  Work on you, give her space, and just maybe she'll decide you're an okay guy after all.  At the very least, you'll be in a better position to move forward and to deal with her and your kids in a productive way.  Read up on the tools on this site since, whatever happens, she will be a part of your life and your kids' lives and it helps to know how to avoid or contain the worst aspects of BPD.  And talk to your lawyer now about custody; I'm not a family lawyer, but by letting her take care of the kids through this long separation you may have given her an argument for being the custodial parent, which obviously isn't ideal for your kids if she is really uBPD.  Good luck.

--DYK

[Mutt]

Hi BrokenNConfused,

I've been mostly dealing with my uBPDw wrong for my entire marriage

I also dealt with uBPDex and my marriage wrong.

She pretty quickly found out that he didn't measure up to the idealized version of him she had in her head and swung back to me--I think it's called recycling.  

I'm sorry you're going through this.

My ex tried to swing back to me too when her bf was getting frustrated with her and she was starting to split him black and me white.

She was threatening with divorce because I was split black and it was her way of rejecting me before I reject her. I had made my mind up that I couldn't continue.

It's win-win for your family with what path you choose if you educate yourself with our resources.

[BrokenNConfused]

I have confirmed evidence of my wife's affair.

She has been lying to me and gas lighting me since January.

Everything that I figured out little by little and confronted her on since January was 100% correct. 

She does not know that I now can confirm her lies with evidence.  I'm not sure what to do. 

I sent a text to my Lawyer and am waiting to hear back.

[Mutt]

I'm sorry to hear that. It may be a good idea to keep your evidence under your hat until you know what to do?

How do you feel?

[BrokenNConfused]

The only people who know are my parents and siblings.  Waiting to hear from my lawyer.

My wife does not know that I now can confirm her lies and her affair.  I was able to put in a good acting job today because she dropped my children with me at my parents for a sleepover tonight and I know 100% she is with him right now.  But I didn't tip my hand.

How do I feel?

Part of me feels vindicated.  Knowing that I was able to piece this all together and that I literally figured out what was happening going all the way back to January let's me know that I'm not crazy.  Every single detail that I figured out.  Every lie she told for the last seven months.  I was right.

But at the same time I'm very hurt.  Knowing that right now she is with him.  Will be having sex with him.  It's hard to not react right now.

[BrokenNConfused]

I kind of just want to call her BS.  Right now.  Just move back into my house right now and tell her I know she has been lying.  Not disclose how I know or tip my evidence.  But just finally end this charade.

And if she tries to lie again just say "no".  "The lies are over".

[Mutt]

You've been together for 14 years.

And if she tries to lie again just say "no".  "The lies are over".

Have you caught her lying about something in the past?

If so, how did she react?

Was she blaming you, did she alter the events of what happened, did she get disproportionately angry at you?

[BrokenNConfused]

This is the only lie I have caught her in.  But the magnitude of this makes me question if there have  been major lies in the past that I just never saw or knew about.

And yes, this entire affair her reactions have been denial, anger, projection, rages.  The last time I spoke about it with her was about a week or so ago.  Even at that point she immediately began an angry outburst.  Said "there is nothing going on between OM and me and you can either accept that or no".  She angrily made the attempt at "this conversation is over".

So basically it's been a pattern of deny, rage, project, lie, gas light, call me a liar rinse and repeat.

[BrokenNConfused]

Also lots of altering.  I mean this has been an intricate and tightly wound deception.

[Mutt]

Also lots of altering.  I mean this has been an intricate and tightly wound deception.

When someone alters reality often it's a sign of mental illness.

her reactions have been denial, anger, projection, rages

If you confront her without having made your mind up, you know what her reaction will likely be like? Probably not a nice reaction, because it will trigger a lot of shame, some experts say BPD is a disorder of chronic shame.

Your lawyer can help you out by advising you about access and custody, child support, alimony, splitting up assets like property etc.

I understand how hurtful this is when we find out about our partners and that they are with someone else  ( in a manly way ) and we may feel a lot anger.

Do you have a T ( therapist ) ?

[BrokenNConfused]

Thanks for the hug Mutt. 

Yes I do have a therapist.  Also spoke with my lawyer this evening.

Seems I can confront her about her affair and telling her I have evidence and inform her that I am moving back home. 

She is going to probably take the kids and bail but according to my lawyer that will actually look badly upon her.

I've really got to take some time and tell the whole backstory on this affair.

I should have been a detective because it is uncanny how I put all the pieces of the puzzle together. 

[Mutt]

Its good detective work   You listened to your intuition and did some fact checking.

Do tell us the back story about the affair when your ready.

What you experienced is likely very difficult to articulate with friends and family. It helps to talk with members that can relate. I'm sorry you had to go through all of this.


Hang in there.


----Mutt

[BrokenNConfused]

I will definitely detail the affair at some point this week.  It's been going on since January.  The evidence I got was slick as hell on my part if I do say so myself.  Audio in nature (and I'll leave it at that) and I now know that every single little detail that started the suspicion ball rolling on my end was and is true.  And the best part is that I heard it straight from the horses mouth without the horse even knowing.

My favorite part is that the two of them are convinced that they have me played for a fool and that I'm "not that smart".  My wife should know better than to try and fool a guy with an IQ in the gifted range and a photographic memory.  I was determined to get proof and took advantage of a move the two of them made in how they are currently communicating.  The funny thing is that they think I'm an idiot and am not aware that they stopped making phone calls and instead starting using FaceTime so that the communications would no longer show up on our phone bill.  According to them, they got "slick" and they were laughing at me and saying that I'm probably still checking the phone bills and wondering why they haven't talked on the phone in a month.  The very first week I noticed that the phone calls dropped off to zero I knew what they were doing and then was able to do some surveillance and confirm what I suspected:  FaceTime!  Thank God I'm "not that smart" according to her boyfriend or else I might have actually figured out what they were doing (heavy sarcasm). 

The only thing that kept me guessing myself these last 7 months was her gas lighting.  I mean the lies were intricate.  Well thought out:  I will give her that.  But there were subtle holes.  Little nuances that I just noticed. And I mean very little details. Maybe that is from my days of having been a Marine.  Attention to detail keeps you from getting killed.  In this case, it kept me pushing forward until I figured out a way to beat them at their own game and get proof without their knowledge. 

I also realize that my heart wanted to believe her.  I didn't want to believe that my life partner of 14 years was really doing this.  That she would push me through our marriage counselor to have a temporary 3 month separation for space back in November.  Agree that after three months I would come home and we would be proactive on healing our relationship.  And then start an affair with some other guy in January (a month before I was suppossed to come home) and lie about it like her life depended on it.  And finally, file for divorce.  And even now after filing, continue to lie about it.

[BrokenNConfused]

My lawyer advised me that the evidence I have and how I got it is legal. So I am fine there. He also said that I can calmly confront her and move back into my house. If she takes the kids and runs he said to not try and stop her. It will reflect badly upon her. Not me.

Anyone have input on what I should say to her?

[DevilYouKnow]

I would keep it to a minimum, matter-of-fact explanation of why you're back and what you see as the way ahead for you two.  I know you are feeling (understandably) both hurt and clever right now, so the natural human impulse is to hurt her back and/or to give her the heist-movie-reveal about how you outsmarted her.  That would unnecessarily escalate things and give her license to play the victim, which is one direction she's going to want to turn as she loses control of this situation.  You have to go into this thinking about the best future for your kids, which means maintaining as functional a relationship as possible with your wife since you will likely have to co-parent to some degree. 

Even a low-key response could lead to a total meltdown as she grasps the situation, so you've got to mentally prepare for how you deal with that.  I see a few possibilities:

1)  She leaves and runs to the new guy.  Probably the least complicated outcome, honestly.

2)  She leaves and takes the kids.  Not ideal, but okay if kids are painted white to your black.  She probably won't be in the most emotionally stable mindset though, so that would concern me a little with the kids.

3)  She stays and is actively hostile to you (verbally/physically abusive).  If you get sucked into a fight or leave after declaring your intention to move back in, she's still controlling the situation.  Maintaining your boundaries without escalating the situation will be difficult.

4)  She stays and is a passive-aggressive ice queen, or she stays and plays the victim.  Uncomfortable, and you'll probably have to resist some pretty engrained urges to placate her.  You may have to decide the difference between a change of heart on her part and more manipulation.

5)  She triangulates with the new guy.  She doesn't have to keep him hidden anymore, so she may decide to use him against you.  How are you going to react if he calls you or shows up at your house to take her side against you?  Something you want to think about before it happens.

Good luck, and let us know how it works out.

--DYK 

[Eodmava]

Hi BnC,

As a Marine, you are NOT broken... .confused understandably... .but not broken.

First off, in response to your questions:

QUESTION 1:  I have a couple of questions.  I've read about high functioning and low functioning.  I would say that from my experience my Wife is high functioning and comorbid with NPD.  She is a very good mother from the standpoint of being very organized and active in the care of the children.  The kids are her entire world.  But she is also very rigid and controlling of them.  My father calls her an excellent "caretaker" but lacking in emotional connection.

Is this typical?  For a high functioning to be a highly involved and attentive stay at home mother? 

RESPONSE:  Based on my experience, yes.  My ex was a very good mother, caretaker and stay at home.  This became more and more difficult for her when my oldest daughter reached the age at which my ex's abuse memories started to creep in.  When my oldest was almost four the disorder came screaming on with a fury that I couldn't understand.  Daughter's bedtimes were extremely triggering... .lots of symptoms of childhood sexual abuse with my ex.  The care that my ex provided was much like your father is describing... .kind of like an older daughter taking care of the younger children... .not necessarily emotionally healthy or maternal per se.  Now post divorce she continues to live in the marital residence paying the mortgage with her alimony and child support.  She still doesn't have a job.  No idea what she is planning but I am sure it will be dramatic.

My other question is this:  Is there anything at all that I can do or say to possibly persuade her to put the divorce on hold and give Therapy and Counseling a chance? 

RESPONSE:  I know that events have turned with the affair discovery and I hope that this might help you break free of your feelings for her... .grieve the marriage and let her go.  As a Marine you probably have a hard time quitting or walking away... .but sometimes walking away is exactly the right thing to do... .was in your shoes for a long time... .believe me I know this is easier to write four or five years after going through the exact same thing myself. 

I would advise against telling her anything right now.  Save it for court.  Ambush her with it there.  You really need to start thinking about strategies and tactics for the divorce and setting up a situation that protects your children from her disorder.  Get back into the house, make her leave... .you have to prepare for court now.  Don't know the laws in your state but affairs can really impact alimony determinations.  In my case, I was hammered with alimony payments... .being successful with a stay at home wife is a dangerous game for men to play these days.  I advise every single young man to get a prenup... .marriage is too dangerous knowing that this disorder is lurking out there.

How are the children handling all of this?  Are they starting school soon?  It's important that you maintain emotional stability for them throughout this process.  A strong father is the best chance your children have.  Can't emphasize that strongly enough.  The children are your mission now.

God Bless,

Mava

[BrokenNConfused]

Well. There was no spewing. I went to my house. Kids were with my father.

Sat down with wife and simply said "I know you have been lying to me about what is going on between you and OM".

At first she tried (again) to deny it. I stayed very calm and in control and said "No. No more lies. I know about it and I have proof".

That made her listen. We talked for a while actually. I got an admission. An apology. Tears. Etc.

Told her I was moving back home. She asked if I could give her some time to find a place. Told her I would think about it.

She collapsed on all of her hard stance nasty play concerning the D.

It's kind of like a vindication to finally get an admission that I was right all along. But honestly, there are no winners here.

She has every intention of staying with him and divorcing. At least now I did finally come from a place of strength. And it looks like I'm going to get what I want and what is fair in terms of finances and custody.

[livednlearned]

BrokenNConfused,

I'm so sorry you had to go through this, with more to come. It's so hard to be told one thing, and know in our gut (and then with proof) that something else entirely is going on, meanwhile we are told that it is our fault, we caused this, we're no good, etc. It was so heartbreaking to read how your son is experiencing everything that is going on, how confusing it must be, how sad he is. Your daughter, though younger, must be picking up on things too.

We have some good material on the board about the psychological and emotional aspects of divorce. Understanding where you are emotionally/psychologically can really make a difference in how things go during and after the divorce in terms of your own healing.

How are you doing right now? Are you back in the home? How are the kids holding up?

One thing about BPD is the "consistent inconsistency." Have things remained relatively stable during the last week or so?

I hope you're doing ok, and are able to adjust as much as you can to this new normal. Many of us have walked in your shoes and the pain can be staggering. You have friends here who understand and are here if you need a listening board. You're not alone.



LnL

[BrokenNConfused]

"Consistent Inconsistency"

Well everyone.  Here is a rundown of what has unfolded the last 2 and 1/2 weeks since I caught and confronted her about her affair.  The biggest developments have occurred over the last 6 days so I'll bullet point them.  As a refresher I have a 6 yo boy and a 2 yo girl.  My wife has been having an affair since January and has brought the other man around the children on an almost daily basis starting in April.  All the while lying to me and to the children about the nature of her relationship with him.  She filed for divorce last month:

Saturday:  My son opened up to me about some feelings.  He told me how he felt safe and comfortable talking to me but it was different when he tried talking to mom.  He said when he has tried to talk to mom the last few months about me coming home etc that the talks were very short and that they wouldn't talk again for a long time and that it confused him.  He sensed mom didn't want to talk about it.  He just wants me to come home.

Sunday:  My son opens up about more things.  He tells me about a "new house" that him mom his sister and the OM went to look at over the weekend.  For the first time he expresses concerns about the other man.  He says "dad I am suspicious of him.  It isn't normal for someone to spend so much time around a family.  I don't know if he is going to be living there but I will let you know if he does".  He also expresses that he is uncomfortable around the OM and doesn't like him spending time around the family.

Monday:  I get a long text from my wife telling me she found a place to live (does not mention OM).  Tell me that she is MOVING ON SATURDAY (What the heck).  In this text she tries to convince me to allow son to switch schools because it is in "his best interest" and that she talked to him and he is "comfortable with it.

I talk to son.  He expresses that if he had the option to stay at his current school and live with me in the marital home that he would prefer that.  At this point he still does not know if other man is living in the new house but says that he would be uncomfortable with it if he was.

Monday night when wife gets home from work I talk to her and give her my answer on son switching schools.  For the first time I tell her about all of the talks my son has had with me and disclose how he really feels about OM.  I ask her if OM will be living in that house.  She says yes (mind you my son and daughter still don't know OM will be living there too and still don't know the nature of his relationship with their mother).  I tell wife my answer is no on son switching schools.  That this is too much for a little boy to deal with and we are going to do what is truly in his best interest and what he is most comfortable with.  I will move back into marital home and son will live with me and stay in school.  She says daughter goes with her and stands firm on living with OM.  We come to an agreement on this and a visitation schedule.  I am relieved that I got my little boy and in my mind my next step is to get my little girl.  I tell her that it is inappropriate for her to have tried to move the children in with OM and that I am going to do everything in my power to prevent him living with the kids.

Wednesday:  I send wife text and tell her she needs to tell me what she is taking and leaving in the move and what we are doing with Son for Saturday night.  Wife sends me text and asks if she can talk to me after she is finished with work.  When she gets home (I was at marital home watching kids) she tells me that she is confused because she thought that I was going to do anything in my power to prevent her from moving in with OM and that would mean that I was going to fight her for full custody of kids and if that is the case than she is not moving.  Will stay in the marital home until the divorce is final and than she can "move in with whomever she wants".  Again What the heck.  She presses me about needing to know if I am going to fight her for custody.  I tell her that I don't know what I'm going to do yet but you have made choices and those choices come with consequences that you must live with.  She stands firm and says she isn't moving and if I come back that we must cohabit until the divorce is final (ummmmm... .no).

Tonight:  I call her and tell her the following.  You have two choices and there is no in between.  If you stay in marital home I come home and you end your relationship with OM, commit to your marriage and family because you will not live in our house while carrying on a relationship with another man.

or

You choose OM and leave.  Daughter goes with you.  Son stays with me and you live with whatever consequences come with that choice.

There is no in between and you have one day to decide.  That is all I have to say at the moment.  I say goodbye and hang up.

[BrokenNConfused]

Anyone?