Codependency vs BPD

[empath]

So, uBPDh knows that there is a problem and is trying to figure out what it is. About a month ago, he read Codependent No More now he thinks he is codependent. It sounded to me like this was a more 'socially acceptable' option that sort of hit on some of the issues. He is telling other people that this is the problem -- and of course, he says that I must have a problem because 'it takes two' for the state of codependency.    Sounds to me like a black hole that I'm staying out of right now. My 'problems' that he thinks need fixing are largely things that he has created or thought up in his head. I am a caretaker, mainly to avoid the abusive aspects of his personality, but I learned a long time ago that I could not control his emotions. 

He did grow up in a dysfunctional ACOA family with abuse and neglect.

He is also trying to talk to me about how I'm feeling. Those conversations always include him discounting or doubting that I am feeling how I am. He looks for something negative/angry that I surely am feeling and can't seem to accept what I say on face value. Thankfully, I know that this is what is happening and don't really look to him for validation of my feelings.

So, I'm coming to a place where I may need to explain to others why I don't think that codependency is really what he is struggling with.

How would you all talk about the key differences? Are they really separate issues?

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[SurfNTurf]

Hi Empath,

I read your post and it resonated with me, too. I have read Codependent No More, several times over the years. I am codependent, or used to be, but after much work I am now a low-reactive caretaker.

If you use the teachings of the CNM book, it discusses at great length how you can't change another person, only yourself. Did your uBPDh pick up on that? I ask, b/c my uBPDh understands this concept, but continues to try to 'change' me... .  ! I recently finished reading Stop Caretaking the Borderline and Narcissistic Personality. It's a very informative read, and might help you with the questions you posted.

You really don't have to explain your spouse to anyone. Especially since he is undiagnosed. The Stop  Caretaking book says to share with people, your friends and family, that there are dyregulating/dysfunctional behaviors the spouse displays from time to time, you can't control that, you can only take care of yourself, and then let that idea sit with them for a bit.

Your friends will be your friends, and those who are disturbed will go away and not be your friends, it is what it is.

I am taking these baby steps too. It feels scary at first to say, "I'm not sure what it is called, but my spouse suffers from some dysfunctional behaviors. So until I know otherwise, I use tools I learned in how to live with a pwPersonality Disorder and it helps." Period. The end.

Hang in there, one day at a time, my friend.

[empath]

The need to explain what is happening is due to the fact that I am now telling people about the abusive behavior that occurred. We have an accountability structure that is in place if he wants to continue along the career path he is going.

I have read Stop Caretaking -- I really found it more helpful than most of the other books that I have read on abuse/dv.

[empath]

Maybe the difference has to do with the instability?

[an0ught]

Hi empath,

you can either try to convince him of something else or... .

... .you can use his insight to motivate him to do something useful.

In a position of weakness I usually go with the momentum and not against it. In this case you could look at co-dependency and leverage that to work with your H on healthy boundaries. PwBPD often have not very good boundaries (remember boundaries are rules for themselves   ) and can benefit greatly getting better there.

  - less stress entering from the outside

  - limits when stressed out (aka dysregulated)

  - dealing with anxiety, fear

  - clearer sense of self

  - awareness of too much agreeableness and mirroring

  - H learning about boundaries may increase understanding of you having some

Or you may convince him he suffers from BPD and embark on the search the perfect DBT therapy.

[Notwendy]

Actually, a caretaker and a pw BPD can both be co-dependent. It's a hard concept to grasp. The caretaker of an addict, or pw BPD or other disorder is the one people tend to think of as co-dependent, but the pw BPD also can be codependent as well. In the 12 step co-dependency group I attend, there are members with addictions and alcohol abuse. One main goal of AA is to get to sobriety from alcohol. Once sober, the alcoholic then faces the issues he/she drank to deal with- and then deals with co-dependency.

One thing I will say about the actively working on recovery members of my group is that I don't think they have BPD. They are there willing to look inward at themselves and do some serious work on themselves. From what I see, pw BPD tend to not look at themselves- and project their issues on to others. Where co-dependents do that is to focus on the problems of others - caretake others, while neglecting themselves.

It's complicated, but I see it as if co-dependency was a coin, the caretaker-enabler would be on one side of it. The disordered person, or addict would be the other side. It looks different depending on what side you are looking at.

[unicorn2014]

Actually, a caretaker and a pw BPD can both be co-dependent. It's a hard concept to grasp. The caretaker of an addict, or pw BPD or other disorder is the one people tend to think of as co-dependent, but the pw BPD also can be codependent as well. In the 12 step co-dependency group I attend, there are members with addictions and alcohol abuse. One main goal of AA is to get to sobriety from alcohol. Once sober, the alcoholic then faces the issues he/she drank to deal with- and then deals with co-dependency.

One thing I will say about the actively working on recovery members of my group is that I don't think they have BPD. They are there willing to look inward at themselves and do some serious work on themselves. From what I see, pw BPD tend to not look at themselves- and project their issues on to others. Where co-dependents do that is to focus on the problems of others - caretake others, while neglecting themselves.

It's complicated, but I see it as if co-dependency was a coin, the caretaker-enabler would be on one side of it. The disordered person, or addict would be the other side. It looks different depending on what side you are looking at.

Codependents are people who try to control other people to try and make themselves more comfortable. Adult children often have abandonment issues which is why they don't walk away from toxic relationships but try to control them instead. Healthy people walk away from sick relationships.

[empath]

We've talked about the need for good boundaries before  (h and I ). Years ago,  we read Boundaries,  but h couldn't understand how it wasn't like punishment.  I think it has helped him a bit, and he mentioned his tendency to project his own feelings and self judgment  on me. The good thing is that he is seeing a therapist as well and is talking about his lack of trust toward others and lack of self acceptance. She is the one who he saw for the depression, and she would be able to diagnose.

When I was talking to our pastor,  I described his disregard for my boundaries and his impulsivity

[unicorn2014]

We've talked about the need for good boundaries before  (h and I ). Years ago,  we read Boundaries,  but h couldn't understand how it wasn't like punishment.  I think it has helped him a bit, and he mentioned his tendency to project his own feelings and self judgment  on me. The good thing is that he is seeing a therapist as well and is talking about his lack of trust toward others and lack of self acceptance. She is the one who he saw for the depression, and she would be able to diagnose.

When I was talking to our pastor,  I described his disregard for my boundaries and his impulsivity

You are fortunate your h has a therapist that can help him and that you have a pastor that can help you. My partner does not have a therapist where he lives and my pastor can't help me with my relationship. my partner is still currently legally married although he has been physically separated for 3 years.

I hope you find the help you need on this board. I am currently struggling with boundaries around text messaging with my partner, but I think my issues are probably very different then yours so I'm not sure how much I can help you.