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Author Topic: Drinking, how to deal with it?  (Read 457 times)
Cloudy Days
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« on: September 16, 2015, 10:07:40 AM »

Ok I asked on another thread of mine but I would really like some advice on how to deal with a spouse who was at one time sober from alcohol for like 4 years. He is now reaching for the bottle again, it started slow, only being on weekends and it is turning into entire weekends and weekdays. His most outrageous behavior has happened when he was drunk in the past so obviously this is a worry and a trigger for me. I know I can't control what he does, if he wants to drink he's going to do it. I really sort of need help with coming up with boundaries for this. I don't want him to drink at all, but I have to be realistic as to what I am asking for from him. If I focus on behavior and he is still drinking a lot I still see it as a lose because I don't want to be married to a drunk. I've been very clear with him that I am not ok with him drinking all the time. His response is that I need to accept him for who he is.

For those of you who don't know me, my father died of alcoholism in February of this year, Valentines day. He took care of my dying grandmother who had cancer, he was coping with the loss by drinking and never really stopped. It took him exactly a year to drink himself to death after she died. I see it as suicide by whisky because that's really what he did.
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« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2015, 02:43:52 PM »

You cannot control his drinking. Period.  If you try to it will most likely make him resentful and it will just cause him to either hide it or be more blatent about it.

You can provide boundaries for how things relate to you, such as, "I will not get into a car with you if you have been drinking".  This one has worked well for me and if we go out and he drinks, he gives me his car keys without a fuss or being prompted at all from me.  You can tell yourself you will not be around him when he drinks, in which case you need to get out of the house. Join Al-Anon, a knitting group, find some girlfriends to hang out with.

He will only get help when he realizes he has a problem, and he is never going to get to that point if the topic becomes a sore spot between you.
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Cloudy Days
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« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2015, 03:01:18 PM »

I honestly see this as the end to our relationship. Because I will not be married to a drunk. This really is a tipping point for me. I'm not going to be married to someone who chooses the bottle over me, It's always been a sore spot for me as both of my parents drank heavily and I didn't like it. I told him before we were married this was something I really feel strongly about. He had never been an alcoholic before just didn't know when to quit when he did drink but I see it happening, He wants it every day. I've already told him if he drinks he gives me the keys. I really don't have a problem with it if it is occasional but it has become his coping mechanism and I just can't accept it. I want him, but not when he is drunk. What amazes me is that he claims he hates it. He hates drinking but it's all he has to turn to. I wished I had never bought a home with him, he was doing so good I thought there was real progress, I know that was not real. I feel like I got duped again. The trust is completely gone between us, I don't know why I even believe anything that comes out of his mouth. I guess I get why he has so many trust issues, when you are as untrustworthy as he is, why would you trust anyone else.
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« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2015, 03:42:58 PM »

I am sad to know that you are having a rough time. If you said that you will not tolerate being married to a drunk, that is your boundary. By continuing to stay with him you are telling him via your behavior that your boundaries are OK to cross, and he doesn't have to respect your boundaries.

It is a hard situation you are in, but you will feel better being true to yourself and respecting yourself.  I know that it is difficult to see right now.
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Cloudy Days
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« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2015, 09:14:24 AM »

Well I think my talk did some good, he wasn't necessarily Mr. Wonderful last night but no Drinking and no talk of it and I got a big hug and a big I love you after I had went to bed.
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« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2015, 09:31:12 AM »

Cloudy,

I feel for you and completely understand your conundrum. Drinking makes my husband far more susceptible to dysregulation and I hate seeing him drunk.

I've tried to confront him about it (before I realized the BPD component) and it didn't go well. All my varied attempts just ended up increasing his shame wound, but that was there before me and he can feel shame even if I say "It's a beautiful day," and he might think that I'm shaming him for watching TV instead of mowing the lawn.

So, I have no advice other than taking care of yourself and being true to yourself. It's a deal breaker for sure and had I known how dependent he is on alcohol, I may not have gotten involved with him. Hard to say, I was head over heels in love with him at the beginning.

Something my therapist directed me toward last night is "Motivational Interviewing." It's a technique therapists use in dealing with drug and alcohol addiction. I'm not intending on being my husband's therapist; fortunately he's started therapy with a psychologist. But it's a way of communicating with someone without putting one's own values or opinions into the mix. You might want to Google it. I can see how it could be really helpful in talking with my husband and I'm going to look for youtube videos.

Best of luck. Cat   
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« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2015, 09:53:00 AM »

Thanks Cat, I will look it up, I do struggle to find the right words sometimes with him. I know how to not invalidate but when he is drunk he's just going to be invalidated it doesn't really matter what is said. But it's talking about what I really want from him and how to get him to say what he wants on a real level and not just a triggered demanding child wanting what he wants when he wants it. Will definitely look it up.
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« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2015, 01:26:31 AM »

I honestly see this as the end to our relationship. Because I will not be married to a drunk. This really is a tipping point for me. I'm not going to be married to someone who chooses the bottle over me, It's always been a sore spot for me as both of my parents drank heavily and I didn't like it. I told him before we were married this was something I really feel strongly about.

It is really hard to say "I won't be married to a drunk" ... .then you back yourself into a corner where you have to decide if he is drinking "too much" or not, and if you can end your marriage over it or not. UGH. HORRIBLE things to decide, and it is really hard on you to think about it that way.

If you back down to what is happening right now, and say "I won't be around my husband when he is drinking." that is much easier to deal with, as you only have to deal with right now--if he is drinking, find someplace else to hang out away from him. And come back later, and resume normal life with him when he isn't.
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« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2015, 07:11:26 AM »

If you are dealing with alcoholism there is no moderation, so how much is too much is not usually the issue. If they are drinking at all it is a problem, any attempt at moderation is a ticking bomb. The boundary of no drinking is quite easy to set if not having the influence of alcohol affecting your life is your deal breaker.

It is a hard choice to make but once made you have to stand firm on it, otherwise you will be dragged back and forward over the same ground again and again.

This is only in the case of alcoholism as opposed to a personal dislike of alcohol, which is more our issue than anyone elses.
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Cloudy Days
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« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2015, 09:38:30 AM »

My basic plea was that I was ok with him drinking on the weekends, but when it starts spilling into the week days it's not ok. So far that seems to be ok with him too. He drank this weekend and did something stupid. He tends to like to get on his phone and he called someone he had not talked to for over a year. Someone that used to a good friend to him. The friend ended up hanging up on him, I listened to the call, the friend was out of line and sounded like he didn't want to be on the call at all anyways. He's had problems too, in and out of the mental hospital. This upset my husband obviously and it started a texting storm. He also ended up spilling a candle on the carpet in our new house (his room but still). Little hints of why I don't want him to drink. He didn't cross a line with me but he was bordering it.
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« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2015, 04:51:04 PM »

My basic plea was that I was ok with him drinking on the weekends, but when it starts spilling into the week days it's not ok. So far that seems to be ok with him too. He drank this weekend and did something stupid. He tends to like to get on his phone and he called someone he had not talked to for over a year. Someone that used to a good friend to him. The friend ended up hanging up on him, I listened to the call, the friend was out of line and sounded like he didn't want to be on the call at all anyways. He's had problems too, in and out of the mental hospital. This upset my husband obviously and it started a texting storm. He also ended up spilling a candle on the carpet in our new house (his room but still). Little hints of why I don't want him to drink. He didn't cross a line with me but he was bordering it.

The problem is, it is making you apprehensive, you are monitoring it and it occupies your mind, waiting for that line to be crossed. next weekend, next month, in a few months then back to square one again.

What happens when drink and a BPD dysregulation coincide? Do you dread this?

Moderation, time and place, appropriateness are not strong BPD traits
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Cloudy Days
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« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2015, 08:22:35 AM »

I do dread it, and that's my reasoning for asking this question. What boundaries are appropriate. I would like him to not drink but unless it gets out of hand I can't call it a deal breaker. And out of hand is sort of a hard thing to put my finger on to state a boundary. I sort of at a loss for how to handle it. I've seen it go to the dark side of him and that is what I fear. I haven't had to deal with him drinking, and when he did start drinking it was more of a celebration type of drinking and he didn't keep doing it. Honestly it was right after my father died this year. We all had a drink for him. But it's just like when we first met, he starts slowly with bad behaviors and they get worse as time goes on. When do you draw a line, and how do you draw it? He has a way of convincing me of his lies. He kept a bottle in the freezer for several weeks, and had several dysregulations without touching the bottle. He says he did that to prove I can trust him with drinking and he isn't going to touch it while he is like that. Fast forward several months and he had a bad day and did exactly that. This is the predicament, where do I draw a line? I was told to focus more on behaviors than the actual act of drinking by someone, but if I come home and he is drunk every day, that is a problem to me. One of the things that I hate is that he doesn't work, he collects disability so he sits all day with his thoughts most days. He has plenty he could be doing but he doesn't do it. He just gets stuck in a depression. He does do things if I am there and cleaning or doing something with him. It's like he can't do anything without someone by his side. And it seems like every single time he mows the lawn he gets into a bad mood and drinks. I wish I had the time to take care of things myself but I don't.

He was moody last night, went to sleep very early, told me to leave him alone when I tried to talk to him. This morning I ask him what is wrong and he tells me I didn't want to talk to him last night so why would I want to know now    he told me to leave him alone!
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« Reply #12 on: September 22, 2015, 09:13:50 AM »

Do you think he has a real problem with drink, or is it more that you have an issue about people drinking? Just make sure you are not imposing your likes or dislikes on him. Does drinking cause ongoing dysfunctionality issues, setting aside the odd tipsy moments.

As far as only doing chores "under witness' that is due to motivation, he is probably not doing them out of responsibility or obligation, he is most likely doing them to be seen to be doing them, for reward or approval. ie his needs.

Being at home on disability can cause an existence where structure and routine has no meaning. No reason to get up in the morning, no deadlines, everything can be put off until tomorrow. this all leads to a depressed state, as nothing is ever achieved, and it is hard to feel any self pride
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Cloudy Days
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« Reply #13 on: September 22, 2015, 09:33:10 AM »

Do you think he has a real problem with drink, or is it more that you have an issue about people drinking? Just make sure you are not imposing your likes or dislikes on him. Does drinking cause ongoing dysfunctionality issues, setting aside the odd tipsy moments.

Here is the thing, the one truly horrible thing he did to me, he did while he was drunk. He was actually drinking with my father, we came home he seemed to be fine, stumbling drunk but not unbearable and all of a sudden he started attacking me verbally. I mean really just not backing down and telling me to leave. Eventually he hit me with a broomstick and I left, I went to his mothers house and he called me about 30 minutes later asking me where I went, he didn't even remember me leaving. I told him I was with his mom and told him to go to sleep and I would be home in the morning. 40 calls and shutting off my phone and unplugging my mother in laws phone later he kept saying he was going to destroy my things if I did not come home. I tried to go to sleep and woke up to him driving off with my mother in law's vehicle. He had walked 5 miles to her house. Me and my mother in law got in the car and went to my home where I found a bonfire of all the things I held dear, pictures, scrapbooks, memories I can't ever get back. We went back to her house and he was there. His step father attacked him, we told him to leave and his mom called the cops on him. He then threw a rock through her window and was arrested after that. He doesn't remember 80% of what happened that night, doesn't remember me leaving doesn't remember making the fire doesn't remember probably about 6 hours of that night. This was when I demanded treatment, I demanded he stop drinking. He went to therapy, he had to deal with court issues which was stressful but he dealt with that. He used pot instead of alcohol. You see he can't smoke pot now so he turns to alcohol instead. As long as I have known him he always uses something to self medicate. So yes he has a history of abusing alcohol. I have obvious reasons for my fear of him drinking. This was not the only incident but it is the most memorable one. This happened probably 3 years ago, he was sober for 3 years, sober from alcohol at least.
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« Reply #14 on: September 22, 2015, 05:19:15 PM »

I have seen this problem before. it doesn't seem to be alcoholism as an issue in itself, it seem more a case of his various methods of self medication means what little sense of restraint he has is removed so that when a trigger for dysregulation happens it escalates to extremes.

You are correct in thinking that he will be able to go through long periods were it is no drama, but when the two situations coincidence you will get a repeat of this as any lessons he may have learned will go out the window in the moment.

It is like sitting as a passenger next to a dangerous driver without any seat belts fitting. There is no harm as long as an accident doesn't happen, but if it does it will be serious.

I dont think extended periods of moderation count for much as the likelihood is that the times when he is emotionally fragile are the times he is likely to drink too much anyway, its not a complete coincidence. One begets the other, as it is a coping mechanism.

Drink related dysregulations happen so quickly there is lttle in the way that you can utilize as boundaries and tools when it happens, so i think having a boundary around not drinking, for your own safety, is quite reasonable.



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Cloudy Days
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« Reply #15 on: September 23, 2015, 09:04:58 AM »

See, I don't know how to stop him from it now. He is on probation so he can not smoke pot, which I prefer to everything, even mental medication. Before I always thought it was alcohol but I noticed once he stopped that he just switched to something else and over did it. And when he didn't have either, he would find something to basically obsess over and I don't mean a little obsession be it religion, conspiracy's, or a hobby he goes over the top. He is a recovering Heroine addict (before I knew him) and has probably done every drug there is. None of this was told to me before we got married.

He's not going to stop drinking until he has something to replace it, he has stuck to the only on the weekends rule so far and I agree, he can go a year and not have one of those extreme emotional episodes while drinking but it just takes once and he could totally ruin our relationship. I didn't know then that he was even capable of what he did, I never imagined he would do that to me. But he was drunk and when you are drunk you do things you wouldn't otherwise do. He always claims he is ok, but then he keeps drinking, once he starts he doesn't know when to stop and there lies the problem.
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« Reply #16 on: September 23, 2015, 05:12:19 PM »

See, I don't know how to stop him from it now. He is on probation so he can not smoke pot, which I prefer to everything, even mental medication. Before I always thought it was alcohol but I noticed once he stopped that he just switched to something else and over did it. And when he didn't have either, he would find something to basically obsess over and I don't mean a little obsession be it religion, conspiracy's, or a hobby he goes over the top. He is a recovering Heroine addict (before I knew him) and has probably done every drug there is. None of this was told to me before we got married.

He's not going to stop drinking until he has something to replace it, he has stuck to the only on the weekends rule so far and I agree, he can go a year and not have one of those extreme emotional episodes while drinking but it just takes once and he could totally ruin our relationship. I didn't know then that he was even capable of what he did, I never imagined he would do that to me. But he was drunk and when you are drunk you do things you wouldn't otherwise do. He always claims he is ok, but then he keeps drinking, once he starts he doesn't know when to stop and there lies the problem.

The always having an object of obsession is something my wife has issues with. For years she was diagnosed OCD, but it was the switching from one fad to the next that eventually lead to BPD, but there are clearly OCD type coping behaviors. From 'medicating' type behaviors through food fads to materialistic things.

It is unlikely you can stop the trait, best you can hope for is to help redirect to something not potentially dangerous.

Occasional drinking, even if with potential dire consequences, is harder to have boundaries around than consistent drinking as it "seems" unreasonable. But it isn't, it is just as serious.

If anything like a major blow up happens again then it is time to make it a definite deal breaker boundary. Alcohol is something that takes firm boundaries as its availability and hence temptation is too strong, and often others encourage it.
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Cloudy Days
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« Reply #17 on: September 24, 2015, 11:20:27 AM »

often others encourage it.

My mother is one of the main people we hang around with and she drinks like a fish on the weekends. I am the only person in my family to have not picked up this trait, I was disgusted with it instead of intrigued. I had my fill when I turned 21 and it quickly got old, but I am not running away from my demons either. My husband has also been diagnosed with OCD at one point in time. I think BPD in general is an Obsessive disorder. It's almost like a catch all disorder, a little bit of this dysfunction and a little bit of that dysfunction all wrapped up into one really screwed up person.
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« Reply #18 on: September 25, 2015, 02:33:02 AM »

Occasional drinking, even if with potential dire consequences, is harder to have boundaries around than consistent drinking as it "seems" unreasonable. But it isn't, it is just as serious.

This is true. 

Everything about my husband's alcohol abuse and drunkenness was unpredictable.  It could be days or weeks apart.  I lived like there was an invisible rope tied to me.  When things were good, I went about my business, thinking that things were finally going to be OK.  And then all of a sudden someone jerked that rope hard out of nowhere.  Jerked me right off my feet. 

During those years, nothing I said mattered.  In all that time, I made only three separate attempts to enforce a boundary by physically removing myself from the situation.   

I wasn't consistent, so it made no difference at all.  I didn't know what to do, or how to stick with a boundary, and was the giver of second chances over and over again, year after year, hoping that one day it would stop. 

In retrospect, I would have mapped out a plan.  I would have had a bag ready to go, and a planned place to go - either to a friend's that he did not know or a hotel.  I would have left quietly (if he came home drunk) or left at a set hour (if he didn't say he'd be late and I realized it was going to be another one of those nights).  And I would have had no contact.  I would have started with one night, and the next day, I would not have told him where I went, just as he never told me where he was.  The next time it happened, I'd have stayed away two nights.  The next time, three nights, etc.  Every time it happened, I'd have stayed away longer than the previous time. That might not be the right thing for someone else, but if I could do it all over again, even if I had boundaried myself right out of a marriage that I really wanted to work, that's what I would have done. 

Did he stop drinking?  Yes.  Not because of me.  He stopped drinking because of our son who was two.  That was a long time ago but even just writing about it feels like it's the present. 



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