I cannot imagine ever saying or doing any of these thing to anyone.

[IHYIDLY]

I have never done this before.  

It is completely foreign for me to reach out to an anonymous board and feel comfortable.  I talk to friends and they are bewildered.  I am in counseling to help deal with all of this chaos.  I am still left feeling lost and deeply, painfully hurt.

My relationship began with my wife began almost 20 years ago.  We had a wonderfully exciting whirlwind courtship.  We were engaged within months and married  1 1/2 years later.  Things seemed wonderful, initially.  Looking back, and after reading and researching, I realized that she in all probability has suffered with BPD longer than I have known her.  At the time I neither had the emotional capacity nor the sophistication to realize that everything was not ALWAYS my fault.  Being the dutiful co-dependent people pleaser I just accepted there was something deeply flawed with me and I needed to "change".

Ironically enough, in August 2014, she accused me of having BPD.  I entertained that as a thought, especially after years of being told how flawed i was and how much damage I had done to her and our relationship.  After lots of reading I had that WOW moment.  Most of what I was reading was describing her.  She is a very intelligent and what I would consider to be very high functioning.  This has made things so much more difficult and confusing.  Extended family does not see it.  When I reach out for help they do not want to hear details - only choosing to believe the facade she presents to the world.  She even makes me question my own experiences with her skillful tap-dance around, well, reality.

Just as examples:

1. I was usually all good.  Until something happened and I would become the biggest worthless piece of crap she had ever known.

2.  :)uring the first 16 mos of our relationship (and possibly up to 5 years) she proactively and deliberately maintained a secretive, emotionally attached relationship laced with sexual tension with an ex (for whom she had dated and was essentially his mistress since he was in a long term engaged relationship with someone else).  To top it off, despite the fact that I had never met him, she was willing to tolerate him speaking extremely poorly of me.  How do I know these details?  Her near complete lack of empathy and impulse control led her to tell me many stories.  It was not until about 10 years into our marriage that I was able to put all the stories together.  I essentially did a memory dump onto paper, plotted the data on a timeline, and the pattern emerged.  Of course they were "just friends".  And to this day she still tells me it was all in my head, she did nothing inappropriate,    According to her of course I am jealous, controlling, delusional, and it is all in my head.  If I bring it up I am an emotional batterer.

3  Most recently she, I strongly feel has not only developed an attraction for the single father of one of my daughters friends but has been acting on the attraction.  Her proximal contact with this individual has been only at  games (baseball/football)  This began ~ 3 years ago and at the time I had chosen to not go with her and my daughter.  Initially I only heard what sounded to be normal stories of him.  As far as I know there was no "outside game" contact.  Over the last 2 mos her behavior has changed.  Before I had any suspicion I decided to start attending the games this season with them because now my daughter in participating as a cheerleader and I as much as possible have tried to be there for any and all of her events.  I was promptly accused of only going to spy on her.  I saw this as a projection and decided to do another memory data dump and timeline plot.  

So far, at least since July of this year she has:

-wanted to invite him and his son on a fishing trip I had planned to take with ONLY my family

-brings him tomatoes and pepper "gifts" from the garden (which I planted and for the most part maintained)

-screams at me for bringing a male neighbor some tomatoes from same garden because she wanted to bring some to "him" (mind you there were hundreds still left after my picking of 20-30 for the neighbor)

-has wanted to buy him at least one gift while I was out with her (then backpedaled)

-at the games I have gone to her affect will light up like an adolescent school girl if he comes around to say "hi"

-whenever she has been in the vicinity of him she will near continuously give him darting glances and initiates a preening ritual (fiddling with hair, adjusting clothing, swishing a necklace back and forth across her chest, biting her lower lip)

-On August 28 I stood in the face of pure hatred as she screamed at me for everything I had ever done wrong in the relationship and about how she wanted out, a divorce, her own apartment, and that I was the biggest loser POS she had ever known.

-I am an emotional wreck and say essentially "I know, I saw the sign, I saw it with my own eyes"

-low and behold her future behavior around him suddenly changes even though my obtuse statement could have meant anything

during this time she has also screamed at me multiple times:

-I hate you

-I don't love you

-I'm not attracted to you anymore

-It's been 18 horrendous years of marriage

-she was always happy and never broken before she met me

-I have ruined her life

-You are a borderline, master manipulator, narcissist, bipolar

-You had an affair with your last counselor

-your gay

-your impotent

-you have a girl you meet up with in the park (I walk; and no there has never been any attraction to anyone on my part - admiring attractive shapes/forms/bodies - yes - but never has there been an actual person/relationship)

- many many more but I'll stop there... .

I am also told:

"Of course I want to be with someone else... .why wouldn't I"

"the only reason I'm not having an affair is because I don't want to go to hell"

"Because you think you have some kind of contract over me you think you can tell me who I can have a relationship with and who my friends are"

"If I want to have an affair I'm going to have an affair"

"If I was ever going to have an affair you would never know"

Very recently the focus of my concern was revealed directly (I believe she always knew but since I had been very obtuse in my initial approach she never let on).  Now she is in usual lie/damage control mode.  I'm jealous/paranoid and always accusing her of this "stuff".  Her entire new argument trying to invalidate my concerns and observations appears to be a complete cognitive re-framing on her part to make it more palatable to herself so she does not have to face it.  He is now just an acquaintance that she happens to talk to during game seasons because our kids are friends and how dare I impune her ethics and morality.

After being told for months how much she wants out and that she only remains for the finances she now tells me she is not going anywhere - she is stuck and is just going to "sit here, rot, and die".  She I think is diabetic, is about 50lbs overweight, and by her own words is causing self harm "I'm going to eat what I want, drink what I want, and hopefully die much quicker than I would otherwise"

Most of the above has just been the past 6-8wks (of hell).

Let me make this clear.  I love my wife.  If she indeed has this problem I can still love her through the hatred.  I do have compassion and see this insanity as part of her pathology.  (I will not tolerate cheating emotional or otherwise - I have not seen any reciprocation most recently so I think she was longing for a football season fantasy world where she could sit next to the object of her attraction and enjoy some ego gratification).

I have been through enough in my personal growth too, to be confident right now that this choice to stay is not being made from my old codependent ways.  I am making this from a position of confidence, awareness, strength, and most importantly love.

Otherwise, I am feeling completely alone.  I cannot imagine ever saying or doing any of these thing to anyone.

Thanks.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Daniell85]

  welcome to BPD family. You sound like you are having a really rough ride.   i am so sorry this is happening to you. Have you had a chance to read the lessons and introductory information to the right on this page?

Since you are wanting to stay, what would you like to see happen in your marriage?

Your wife sounds like she is in a major state of disregulation, and is being a bit self destructive with her health. Untreated diabetes can really effect a person.

What has been happening the last few days? Help us get oriented with you, so we help you out.

[an0ught]

Welcome IHYIDLY,

check out the LESSONS at the top. There is no single measure that will immediately help you but consistently applied they tend to help a lot.

As Daniell85 said - it sounds like you wife is constantly close to the point where reasons is leaving. So

1) learn about how to validate. And no, this won't help but having a very clear idea what is right allows you to

2) learn how to avoid invalidating. Having an idea how she feels (however irrational) and avoiding going against that can reduce the triggers she is facing. Avoiding JADE (Justification, Argue, Defending and Explaining) goes a long way.

3) learn about boundaries. Some of what your wife does is unacceptable and too hurtful   to stick around. Leave for some time - there is no point in sticking around for a verbal beating.

you find pointers to initial workshops on these topics in the LESSONS to get started. The board her is a good place to validate your understanding and develop plans how to deal with concrete situations and scenarios.

again ,

a0

[IHYIDLY]

Thank you for your response.

I have work to do yet with getting through the lessons but I have read "Walking on Eggshells".  The more I read the more her behaviors make sense.  It doesn't take away the soul shearing experience of intermittent despair and hopelessness.

I would like an adult marriage.  

I would like a marriage where there is at least an attempt at a mutual exchange of ideas and reciprocal respect of each others thoughts and feelings even if there is a difference of opinion.

I would like forgiveness empathy and compassion for my mistakes and shortcoming without being kitchen sinked in a violently emotionally and psychologically abusive way especially if she if feeling backed into a corner.

I would like to be seen and heard.  I do not want my thoughts and feelings to be at best ignored and at worst directly told she does not care because I am just jealous, paranoid, or its all in my head.

I would like to stop being told how much I am hated, despised, and an utter loser - horrible husband and horrible father.  She recently told me to call one of her closes friends of more than 15 years now - I guess to set me straight.  After hearing some of my story with much of the information in my first post her own friend and confidant was taken aback.  She validated me just as a person telling me I don't deserve any of that cruelty and posturing for an affair.  I did deserve to be loved.  She did not believe my wife at her core meant any of her words but she did say that if it is true and at her core and I am in a loveless marriage then she frankly said I just need to leave.

I need to be with someone with more coherent and cohesive thought processes.  All of the cognitive distortions are mind boggling.  (Recently my daughter had an event to attend.  I had been raged at for much of the day before and the day of.  I asked my daughter if she cared if I went.  She did not (it was for something for which she was more of an active participant as a third party).  When my wife discovered I was not going, at the last minute she flew into a screaming fit rage, announced she was not going to go, and ran upstairs in a tantrum.  My instinct kicked in and I put my feelings aside and told my daughter I would take her and not let her down.  Once the manipulation was successful my wife choose to go.  In the meantime, amidst all of the chaos and turmoil, my daughter began to cry.  In the car on the way to the event I was screamed at for being a horrible father for making my daughter cry because I was not going.  I reminded her the tears started flow when SHE was not willing to go.  She DENIED (10 minutes later) ever saying she was not willing to go.  My daughter literally screamed at her saying yes she did say that and she was crying because of my wife's behavior.

Without a doubt this distraction (? fantasy world) she has created with this other individual needs to vanish.  I need a partner who will focus their energy on the commitment of marriage and not try to self medicate by interacting, on any level, with someone who is single, available, and in her words "reminds me of my father".

There are so many more things I would like to see happen in my marriage.  All, I feel as reasonable as the above.

In the last few days things have been tense, weird, and still somewhat of an emotional roller-coaster.  this is actually a step up from the last 5-6 weeks.  Over the years her cycles of rage, blame, criticize would last no more than a few days to a week - and then things would seem back to normal.  Of course, I carried the reciprocal dysfunction of co dependency and capitulation so it was easier for her behavior to become extinguished.  I have grown significantly though over the last several years and I am no longer fitting that codependent role as completely as I once did.

The last 5-6 weeks have been DAILY cycles of rage, blame, criticize intermixed with being completely ignored with cold dismissive responses.  Once she became fully aware of my concern for her behaviors of attraction to someone else she has, especially in the last 2 days being open warm, conversant, sharing, nice, responsive, caring -- almost "normal".  

Last night, after a full day of feeling like I was cared for and loved, right before bed I am slammed with how she is sick of my accusations (currently of this presumed attraction).  The entire focal goal she had was to frame and minimize her behaviors in such a way that I appeared nuts and I was attacking her ethical and moral character.  She characterized her relationship with this other person in a minimalistic broad stroke fashion to I believe maximize the appearance of this being "all in my head".  She of course is either unaware, blocking, or purposely excluding the fine nuanced and subtle behaviors on her part which would suggest otherwise.  She said, and honestly believes, I am taking issue with her waving hello to him or having a few minute BS session before during or after the game.  To me, these are very petty excuses for any one to have a problem with.  She insists nothing is going on and I am crazy just because she has what she refers to as an acquaintance level relationship with him where all they have ever done at games is just talk about their kids.  She said she does not text him, know his schedule, or much about him otherwise.  Of course there is no mention on the behaviors reflecting otherwise I mentioned in my first post which would suggest she is trying at least to bring that relationship outside of the confines a football game or other sporting event (ie. wanting to bring him along on a family outing; conveniently volunteering that my son struggles with english in school and... .wait for it... .he happens to be a high school English teacher and apparently gallantly volunteered to tutor him -- something she was completely thrilled about - rushing home the same day to tell my son that Mr. ____ said he would tutor him;  bringing him gifts from the garden (while screaming at me not to give some away to our (male) neighbor we have known for 11+ years;  wanting to buy him gifts; her significant affective brightning and glow when he is around coupled with the apparently sub-conscious preening rituals I mentioned; and then the behavior shift, when even before it was verbalized who the object of my concern was and she was only aware of me sensing an issue, she began to avoid him and keep her distance, but displays what seem to be uncontrollable darting glances in his direction repeatedly coupled with the nervous agitated preening.)

This was done in a lecturing and one sided tone.  When I tried to calmly enter the conversation I was told that she did not care what I thought or felt because I was just wrong, jealous, and paranoid.  She ignores that fact that she brought several close male friends into our relationship early on.  Her behavior with them, in the context of our relationship, was always very appropriate.  I never have had a problem with her having male friends in our relationship- so long as her behaviors (and their behavior) did not suggest a problem.  She does have strong motivation though to quash this current issue since this man is the father of my daughters closest friend and my wife considers the rest of the family ( ex wife etc. ) to be friends.


So... .right now things with her are extremely unstable and as pointed out completely dysregulated.  Although for the time being the storm seems less intense I am waiting for the next swell of anger, hatred and irrational behavior.

Lost in the storm... .

[waverider]

Be aware the more you learn about the disorder the more 'abnormalities" you will see. Bringing it back to your wishlist of what you would like for a normal marriage is highly unlikely. It is more likely you will have to learn to accept a large dose of abnormalities.

Individual issues are not the problem, you can get past them, but the underlying personal behavior trait remains and another issue steps in to take its place. You are not tackling a mountain but a mountain range, attempting to continuously conquer the peaks will grind you down. Discovering the path through the passes will greatly enhance your journey.

Learning what you need to change about you is a big part of what we teach here

[chump]

You are not tackling a mountain but a mountain range, attempting to continuously conquer the peaks will grind you down. Discovering the path through the passes will greatly enhance your journey.

That's excellent WR. With implications far beyond a relationship with a pwBPD.

[waverider]

You are not tackling a mountain but a mountain range, attempting to continuously conquer the peaks will grind you down. Discovering the path through the passes will greatly enhance your journey.

That's excellent WR. With implications far beyond a relationship with a pwBPD.

The purpose of this site is to provide you with the map. The route which we choose is our own individual choice. Choice gives us control, which in turns makes it easier to accept the odd difficult parts of the path

[OffRoad]

Your W may also be having a midlife crisis. It mimics BPD in general, and  pwBPD seem to get the crisis part of midlife in spades when it happens. A lot of what she said is classic Midlife crisis, especially the part about it being 18 horrendous years. (The amount of time she was miserable will change daily. Sometimes, you will have made her miserable for more years than you have known each other). You might want to look it up, too.

[LilMe]

Offroad,

I giggled about making life miserable for more years than we have known our pwBPD  Mine will sometimes stop in the middle of a rage to ask 'how long have we been together?' then insert the number I give and continue.

IHYIDLY,

I am sorry you and your family are going through this. I have chosen to stay in order to protect my 3 children still at home. I left for a year and it was not good for them. I have been working hard using the Lessons here and reading and things have been better for the children and the rages were less. Right now he has painted me black and seems to be getting out the pent up rages from the last year! But he is not raging at the children. I am trying to minimize the stress and keep working on myself.

It is hard to know what is the right thing to do! I hope you can get to a place of peace.

[IHYIDLY]

Thank you to everyone.

I was raised in a household where I was taught the ONLY people I could ever truly trust was family.  Ironically, the greatest support and help I have found in recent years has been from both friends and complete strangers both in my community and now this virtual world I have entered for the first time. 

Your words of kindness and assistance have been greatly appreciated. 

I almost feel like, in learning to cope within this environment, I need to embrace many of the major concepts of a 12 step program.  Focusing on constructive change of my thoughts, feelings and behaviors, within the context of this dysfunction, will be what ultimately helps me to achieve that "spiritual awakening" which I so desperately need right now.

I have absolutely no control over any of this insanity.  I do have the choice though, to not let the insanity control me.

I had been doing fairly well with this as her behavior had been deteriorating over the last several years.  Even during some fairly violent storms I was able to weather them and still come out ok... .ready to face another day.

I was rattled, and much of my resilience broke, when I started to sense and see her "eyes wandering".  This coincided with and seemed to fuel the sudden increase in vitriolic rage to a level I had never experienced before.  Just another mountain in the range of dysfunction I suppose.

Keeping myself centered and healthy seems to be getting easier the more I read and learn about this disorder.

I hope it continues to get easier.  Not only for myself but also for others who find themselves caught in a whirlwind of chaos and insanity.

I may have specific questions in future posts.  I do not want to unknowingly violate or disrupt the etiquette of this board.  I do not plan on asking for advice as the path I choose would need to be my own.  I would though appreciate hearing how others have handled similar situations I may struggle with.  If this type of approach is acceptable then I will likely have many questions.

Thank you everyone again.