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Author Topic: Should I start/continue a relationship with a BPD?  (Read 526 times)
s2mega

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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
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« on: September 28, 2015, 02:36:25 PM »

Hi all

I guess anonymity is the proper thing around here. So I'll introduce myself as s2mega, you can read that as Omega Smiling (click to insert in post)

And this is my story, thank you for lending your metaphorical ear.

Around January, I met a girl, she was amazing, and I pursued her relentlessly. She at first rejected the notion of a relationship, but she still spent time with me. After a month we began a relationship. It was the most turbulent relationship I've ever had, when it was good it was great. When it was bad it was drama and tantrums. After about three months, I broke up with her. It was a dramatic break-up, she didn't want it.

After we broke up, she tells me she had cheated on me during the relationship. I cut off all contact.

Four months later, we had coffee, and she explained and apologised that she cheated because she was lashing out. (not that it justifies it or excuses it at all) She had been seeing a psychologist and psychiatrist since we broke up, and she was being diagnosed with BPD - she thought she just had anxiety before, and now it seems the anxiety was the symptoms of BPD, not that anxiety was causing problems.

I'm still feeling very hurt by the cheating, but that's just the symptom, and not the actual problem. She is genuinely apologetic for that, and I do believe her on that. She wants to give it another try, and she has been seeking help for her newly-diagnosed BPD. And she has been taking medication.

I will openly admit that I'm not perfect myself, I probably didn't handle situations with her the best I could have, but of course, her actions are not my responsibility.

After all this, we now have been hanging out for a week or two now. I have made it very clear that we are not "officially dating" - that's the boundary I've set for us, we can hang out, but I won't "officiate" that we are a couple until I'm satisfied that I'm comfortable with her. That I can trust her. She says she will work on regaining my trust.

We had a fight last weekend, the first since I started seeing her again. It was over some really dumb things, as it usually was. I tried to not let it get to me, but it did, and I got mad.

Her infatuation with me is bordering on obsessive - frankly I'm both flattered and a bit worried about it. I don't like the concept of addiction, she's used the word herself regarding her attraction to me. But then again, it's a yo-yo thing - when it's good it's great, when it's bad it's destructive.

My question now is: Should I jump into/continue this relationship? I feel that if I enter into, I have to enter into it properly, and that means committing despite knowing she would sometimes knowingly hurt me, despite knowing I may not be able to trust her 100%.

Could be make her worse by being with her? Could extracting myself as her object of addiction/affection be better for her? (I know I'm sounding like I'm full of myself but those were her words)

I do have very strong feelings for her. She's great when it's great. That she has looked at herself and sought help and got diagnosed with something that she never knew about, and is doing something about it, is, for me, incredibly brave and a great step for gaining my trust.

But I don't know whether I should take the step fully or not.

How do I tell?
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Ceruleanblue
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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
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« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2015, 04:04:09 PM »

Yes, you are fortunate to see this, and know this prior to having a lot of time into this relationship. I know it still hurts, but a lot of us didn't find out what we were dealing with until after we married. My BPDh hid what he was, and things started to get bad after we'd married. I think they can be on their best behavior for a while, but when they feel they "have you", they no longer feel the need for pretense, and fake nice behavior.

At least this girl didn't hide what she is, then spring it on you later, and she's getting help. I still think though that once they feel they have you, the BPD type behaviors might amp up. It's like they just can't help it, but they obviously can, somewhat. DBT is supposed to help them use skills to do so.

The tools on the right of this page, can be helpful for learning how to deal with BPD behaviors in a way that is healthy.
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waverider
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If YOU don't change, things will stay the same


« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2015, 05:55:35 PM »

The most important point to keep in mind is that you can't fix or rescue her simply by being caring and understanding.

If you are having these issues so early it is likely you will reach a point of crisis when you dont have the same invested interest to make you battle it out.

To be quite blunt many members here would have walked if it wasn't for physical, financial and family commitments. Sounds harsh, but the point is they can push you to your emotional and mental limits, and it often takes practical reasons to make you go the extra steps to try to maintain or repair things.

To be honest many people are well entangled in a codependent situation befoer they even realize what is going.

Its not a run message but more of an awareness that this is not hill you are attempting to climb, nor a mountain, it is a mountain range. Whatever drama you are facing is not the issue, there will be another waiting behind it. There is a need for drama and neediness is an ongoing process, adressing neediness does not fulfil it, it simply validates it as a process and perpetuates it.

She will need you to CONTINUALLY try to meet her needs. It is not about having them met.
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s2mega

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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 5


« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2015, 04:46:35 AM »

Thank you all for your most sincere input, I really appreciate it.

An update: The BPD is currently self-diagnosed, she saw a Psychologist and they identified 8 out of 9 criteria for diagnosis, but it can only be confirmed by a Psychiatrist.

--------------------

I can see the pattern, and I've read a lot of the materials, I still have lots to go, I'm sure.

I understand that it's not my fault, nor responsibility, and that getting out is probably the best thing for me. I knew that before she was diagnosed, and I did get out once already.

I can't save her, and I can't help her (on my own). I feel like I have to watch what I say around her to not hurt her/exacerbate her tendencies. I feel like I can't apologise because it reinforces her assertion over me... .

At least she's recognised the problem and is doing something about it. That's a huge plus, but that doesn't mean she doesn't get hurt by my telling her the truth about her problems and what I experience... .

---------------------------

Should I tell her about what I know?

Should I tell her "this is what you're doing, and these behaviours are hurting me"?

Should I tell her "I have to treat you in this and that way because otherwise I would reinforce bad behaviour"?

Should I approach her with open honesty or should I approach this in some other way?

I'm still undecided whether I can/should stay with her yet. Her infatuation with me is still very strong, and I still have strong feelings for her too. Though I understand that I'm making a huge decision and basically have to accept that I can't trust her. That... .That's huge.
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waverider
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If YOU don't change, things will stay the same


« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2015, 05:43:01 AM »

Thank you all for your most sincere input, I really appreciate it.

An update: The BPD is currently self-diagnosed, she saw a Psychologist and they identified 8 out of 9 criteria for diagnosis, but it can only be confirmed by a Psychiatrist.

--------------------

I can see the pattern, and I've read a lot of the materials, I still have lots to go, I'm sure.

I understand that it's not my fault, nor responsibility, and that getting out is probably the best thing for me. I knew that before she was diagnosed, and I did get out once already.

I can't save her, and I can't help her (on my own). I feel like I have to watch what I say around her to not hurt her/exacerbate her tendencies. I feel like I can't apologise because it reinforces her assertion over me... .

At least she's recognised the problem and is doing something about it. That's a huge plus, but that doesn't mean she doesn't get hurt by my telling her the truth about her problems and what I experience... .

---------------------------

Should I tell her about what I know?

Should I tell her "this is what you're doing, and these behaviours are hurting me"?

Should I tell her "I have to treat you in this and that way because otherwise I would reinforce bad behaviour"?

Should I approach her with open honesty or should I approach this in some other way?

I'm still undecided whether I can/should stay with her yet. Her infatuation with me is still very strong, and I still have strong feelings for her too. Though I understand that I'm making a huge decision and basically have to accept that I can't trust her. That... .That's huge.

Dont say what you know or try analysing/diagnosing her

Dont tell what she is doing wrong.

Do say I feel bad/hurt when I experince xyz

In short dont lecture, only alert her to impacts on you. This is the basis of boundaries, once you start telling her what she is doing wrong you are getting into the areas of unenforceable "demands" which are perceived as controlling.
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s2mega

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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 5


« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2015, 05:54:26 AM »

Thank you for that! That's very concise and understandable.

So tell her how I feel, but not that it's "wrong" for her to do something?

This reminds me of something has constantly come up before - she always asks me "Why does there have to be someone wrong?", sometimes I say I did something wrong, sometimes she doesn't understand that what she did is wrong (or, wrong according to my frame of reference) (this was before her diagnosis), so when I tell her not to do something because it's wrong, she reacts with that denial of "wrongness". Nothing seemed to be wrong, and it's never anyone's fault. Things just are what they are... .

I understand the underlying principle of that, but when there are things that are patently wrong like lying and deceit and disrespect of my boundaries, especially when she is vehemently adamant of her's, it feels, in short, wrong.)

So I wrestled with that idea, and now it seems to make more sense. She doesn't know what's wrong or right, according to some cosmic bull___ scale. She only cares about protecting herself, and "wrongness" would undermine her ego of herself, is that so?
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waverider
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If YOU don't change, things will stay the same


« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2015, 09:19:32 AM »

Thank you for that! That's very concise and understandable.

So tell her how I feel, but not that it's "wrong" for her to do something?

This reminds me of something has constantly come up before - she always asks me "Why does there have to be someone wrong?", sometimes I say I did something wrong, sometimes she doesn't understand that what she did is wrong (or, wrong according to my frame of reference) (this was before her diagnosis), so when I tell her not to do something because it's wrong, she reacts with that denial of "wrongness". Nothing seemed to be wrong, and it's never anyone's fault. Things just are what they are... .

I understand the underlying principle of that, but when there are things that are patently wrong like lying and deceit and disrespect of my boundaries, especially when she is vehemently adamant of her's, it feels, in short, wrong.)

So I wrestled with that idea, and now it seems to make more sense. She doesn't know what's wrong or right, according to some cosmic bull scale. She only cares about protecting herself, and "wrongness" would undermine her ego of herself, is that so?

Black and white thinking means she struggles to understand that she did "something" wrong.  She is either right or she is completely wrong, ergo a complete failure and you hate her utterly. Hence the bitter defence to not be seen to be even slightly wrong.

>>"When XYZ happens it makes me feel really bad and hurt". Leave it at that, she will try to draw out details which she can twist around and defend, pushing you into JADE (Justify, Explain, Argue, Defend), this ultimately pulls you away from the issue onto weaker and weaker defenses. Hence it is safer to say how you feel and leave it at that, the reason may be obvious but as soon as you finger it you throw down the gauntlet and she has to fight.

When you are obviously feeling down and she keeps pestering as to why, she is actually interrogating you to see if you are blaming them so they can defend it. If you say it is, she will attack and you feel worse. The enquiry is not empathy it is covering themselves from being blamed.

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s2mega

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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 5


« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2015, 11:21:19 AM »

>>"When XYZ happens it makes me feel really bad and hurt". Leave it at that, she will try to draw out details which she can twist around and defend, pushing you into JADE (Justify, Explain, Argue, Defend), this ultimately pulls you away from the issue onto weaker and weaker defenses. Hence it is safer to say how you feel and leave it at that, the reason may be obvious but as soon as you finger it you throw down the gauntlet and she has to fight.

When you are obviously feeling down and she keeps pestering as to why, she is actually interrogating you to see if you are blaming them so they can defend it. If you say it is, she will attack and you feel worse. The enquiry is not empathy it is covering themselves from being blamed.

and

Dont say what you know or try analysing/diagnosing her

Dont tell what she is doing wrong.

Do say I feel bad/hurt when I experince xyz

In short dont lecture, only alert her to impacts on you. This is the basis of boundaries, once you start telling her what she is doing wrong you are getting into the areas of unenforceable "demands" which are perceived as controlling.

So from these, I want to ask... .If I shouldn't tell her my analysis of her, how do I try and communicate to her that I need my own space without seeming to hurt her?

When she says "Why don't you want to have dinner with me?", I want to say that I think that it would be best for both of us to have space to ourselves, to not spend all our time together, and that I'm still unsure whether I could or should proceed in the relationship with you... .

But all I could manage in the end was a feeble: "Because I don't want to"

And that doesn't feel... .Right. Was that right?

------------------

Can I tell her "I can't be with you because you will eventually hate me, and I don't want to end up like that."?

Can I tell her "I know that I probably won't be able to trust you around other men, and I would have to check up on you all the time. And that's terrible for me and you"?

(Incidentally, she now often brings up someone else in casual conversation "Oh, I'm seeing Person X on Sunday, I love Person X, he's the best". I don't see him as a threat, but she talks about him as if she really likes him, but at the same time I don't know if she does this just to push my buttons, or if she has zero EQ to understand that what she says sounds like attraction, and given our history, I'm just inclined to think that. Obviously if she were to cheat on me it wouldn't be in the open like this)

Yes, I know I sound crazy already and that this probably isn't good for me. But I always have this... .feeling that people can do better if they just try. I do, but more and more I've come to learn and realise that some people aren't in control of their behaviour, and even if they may have good intentions when "conscientious", they may hurt me, just because they must.

It just doesn't seem fair for sufferers to basically be sentenced to life in solitude.
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waverider
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If YOU don't change, things will stay the same


« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2015, 04:35:30 PM »

"I dont feel comfortable being in a relationship where i feel I am competing for your feelings, I prefer not to put myself in that situation so I am not up to dinner , its not healthy for me"

You are being truthful, staying away from specific issues, stating what you are doing to look after yourself.

Of course she will probe and look for reasons but you are not providing much to work with.
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s2mega

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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 5


« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2015, 12:37:46 AM »

Thank you. That's helpful.

I'm now taking a step back and looking at it all in perspective, these are what I think I know:

1. She self-diagnosed BPD, it hasn't been confirmed yet.

2. BPD comes in different forms, not all BPDs behave the exact same way, right?

3. Recently, she had not behaved in ways that are destructive or negative.

Based on these, I don't feel like I can/should pre-judge her and write her off based on advice from other people who have come through terrible experiences. I feel like right now, I'm acting towards her in a way that's unfair to her. (I'm still telling her that I'm unsure about being in a relationship with her, but we are seeing each other. She had agreed to be fine about that when we started seeing each other again, before she self-diagnosed BPD)

Is such thinking as above (the inclination to not pre-judge, not that I'm seeing her despite being unsure) being naive, or fair?

Are there various degrees of BPD? Is it possible that her self-awareness means a lot more than I'm giving her credit for?

I don't want to run on her for no good reason. It can only fuel her abandonment issues, and I don't want to hurt her, naturally.
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waverider
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If YOU don't change, things will stay the same


« Reply #10 on: September 30, 2015, 01:01:36 AM »

The tools are good life skills and are applicable to dealing with everyone.

Dont get hung up on the diagnosis, many never get it, many get it wrong.

Yes there are varying degrees and also overlaps with other issues too.

take it one step at a time and dont make big plans or promises, as non will be adhered to.
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