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Author Topic: My gawd, I can't divorce my ex  (Read 724 times)
madison46

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« on: September 30, 2015, 01:14:03 AM »

I guess I may be overstepping my bounds saying my ex has BPD.  I know no therapist has told her that; however, a therapist, a marriage one, has said I was the abused one.  That her actions were akin to those of an abusive alcholic.

It was at that point I decided not to get back with her.  Not because the therapist finally put it into words, but because she was on facebook gloating about 'winning' regarding something in our relationship and I asked her to take it down.  She refused.

A little history:

She was great.  Thought the way I did. Laughed at my jokes.  Was playful.  :)idn't seem upset if I was sarcastic... mostly laughed.  She had good tastes. etc... .

I married her.  Within a year, at a anniversery B&B my parents got us, she went silent.  It was nothing I had ever experienced.  She was mad and sulky and gave me the silent treatment for weeks.  I felt horrible.  I really did.  I know I'm a man and can be brain damaged, but WTH.  I thought we were divorcing on on our way.  I apologized.  Asked if we were through.  I was befuddled.  She finally came out of it and I was just thankful to have my fun loving wife back.

It happened again within a year.  Then again.  Then a couple more times... maybe I left my t-shirt next to my bed and didn't pick it up... or a sock.  Thinking back, who knows.  One time she left for a working trip.  I met up with her.  Upon see'ing her, she wanted nothing romantic to do with me.  I got us another romantic place away and she started to sulk.  She slowly got angrier and angrier.  She told my family it was because I didn't clean the house, which she hadn't seen in 5 weeks. Then said I mis-managed the money.  She's military and went away a lot.  Anyway, it was another 6 week'er of silent treatment on top of the 5 weeks apart.

This was a recurring event and I'll cut to the short of it.  First 1/3 of our marriage, I was beside myself that I had done something wrong.  I apologized profusely.  I grovelled so-to-speak.  The middle third, I tried to find help... marriage therapist.  Books for her and me.  anti-depresants.  :)r. Phil's marriage workbook/CD set.  You name it.  She was a classly lady.  Mother of my son.  Worth saving.  

The last third of the marriage I was just pissed.  I threw my wedding ring across the room a number of times.  Made no dent with her.  She once gave me the silent treatment for 3 days because i forgot pizza sauce on a homemade pizza.  Something my family and I would cherish as a funny moment in life, but not her.  It was a horrid moment.  Me and my boys laughed... .she sulked.

According to her I was lazy.  Never did anything.  Money matters I got her buy-in only to have her change her mind 3 days later and have her sulk.  She once told me I had a 'fat flabby belly'.  I was aghast.  WTH?  I'm no swimmer/surfer, but I'm not fat person either.  40 yrs old... .eh, could be better, could be worse.  

Anyway, one time she said she needed a laptop. Asked me how much they ran.  I said probably $750.  I reached over, grabbed a Best Buy ad and said they had some for $499.  Exact model I was thinking about.  Anyway, 6 weeks of silent treatment.  Which was the 3rd one of the year and it was only April.  Gawd just typing this I'm wondering WTH I stayed.  Anyway, she had to go away for 9 months.  Before she left she again, after a fight, said I had a fat flabby belly.  That we weren't going to work out and the 9 months apart would be good for us.

Just a note, one time during a marriage therapist session, the therapist sent me away and said she only wanted to deal with my ex.

Anyway, when she left and had told me the second time I had fat flabby belly.  We were on our third 6 week silent treatment that I decided we were done.  Needless to say, everytime she went away, I took care of the kids.

Sadly, while she was gone, I fooled around.  When she came back, I filed for divorce.  Probably the wrong way, but you know what, it was nice to be 'normal'.

Anyway, divorce has been dragging on 3+years.  She can't accept she may actualy have to split equity in the house.  Retirements. et al.  I get 'no real man' would accept this or that.  No 'real man' would want that.  We live in CA and it's all 50/50 so she is fighting uphill battle. The problem is she makes enough to keep a lawyer on the pay roll.  I see my son's college money disappearing.  There is no 'winning'... and by winning I mean avoiding costly court battle.  I've offered to not take retirments and just let her buy me out of house.  Nope.  I've offered the opposite.  Nope.  For her, I have to take zero and she's going to court to make that happen.  I would willingly take a whole lot less, but my bottom line is bankruptcy.  I won't do that.  She's determined to make that happen.

I think she is a narcissist.  She HAS to win.  She HAS to control.  She uses the kids.  Refusing to pay for their stuff on occasion.  Playing games with their time.  A lot of 'it's MY TIME' coming form her mouth.  Refusal to pay for one son's baseball stuff unless I divorce her on her terms.  

Finally I thought I had agreement with her.  11 months later, her lawyer sends a fully poisoned pill proposal.  It was like I wasn't at the table in the same room with them.  So now we go to court.  She makes more than I do now, so she will pay all or majority of my legal fees.  Hey, no problem, however, it will come out of our HS Senior's college fund.  

I'm rambling.  If there was no child with a bright future in front of him, I would walk away with nothing and tell her to go f herself.  But I have a son.  I refuse to be the poor parent and let her chose everything.  So I fight.  She enjoys it. I don't.

I pray the lawyer and the emails I have from her save me from false charges.  If it goes by 'the book', I have no problem.  If she somehow pulls some female 'wo is me' act, then I will be in serious trouble.

What's worse... .is you know you loved them.  It sux because you thought you had found a great person... .but my gawd, they torture you... .

If anyone has any success stories divorcing one while having kids, I'd love to hear it.  Just to cheer me up.  3.5 years and I thought we had a deal.  I was ecstatic I was going to get to move on... .only to have it yanked away.

What makes me think she is BPD?  The YEARS of silent treatment.  I mean, MY GAWD, how does someone do that?  I lost 1/4 to 1/3 a year dealing with her silent treatment.  Lost joyful time.  Then there is the therapist sending me away to only have sessions with her.  Then the final therapist pointing out directly to her, she was the abuser.  I felt vindicated, but it didn't dent her.  So here I am, wondering if I get to survive and move on.
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enlighten me
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« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2015, 01:30:35 AM »

Hi Maddison

Welcome to the family.

My ex wife dragged out the divorce. Not as long as yours has though. I paid off all her debts (stupidly before the divorce but didn't want the kids to suffer). She went back on her word and kept coming back to try and drag more out of me. We ended up with 50/50 on the kids. She remarried and took the boys away with her. They now live with me and no longer want anything to do with their mum.

It was a long painful process but I got there in the end. My boys are happy and settled and she lives far enough away not to trouble us. Her marriage isn't all roses as her husband is either NPD or possibly BPD.

There are things good for me now. The stress has gone and Im happy again.

It does get better even though some days it feels like it will never end.

EM
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madison46

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« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2015, 01:54:03 AM »

Thanks.  She is BPD... I really believe she is borderline, but it doesn't take but a straw on the camels back to set her off.  She manipulates the boys with guilt trips, but so far hasn't really destroyed them.  Namely because I remind her I will have her in court via Ex Parte like if she pulls anything.

The sad thing in my case is she makes FAR more than I do.  She is fairly well off.  Just to get away, I was willing to accept 1/3, but that wasn't good enough for her.  I have to take zero.   She was going to try to take the kids, but since she travels so much and I took care of everything from signing them up for school to dealing with teachers, she dropped that attempt.

I'm glad to hear it for you EM.  I have a girlfriend, but she's now going to separate herself from this fight so that hurts me, but it has to be done as the ex just concentrates on her.  Everything is at fault but the ex's actions and insults... at least according to her.  Naturally it's me that has the mental issues ... .I ask her if any of the three therapists took issue with me or her... but if you've ever dealt with BPD people, you know they don't see the sequence of events or history of actions... it's like talking to a wall.

When this is done, if I'm not bankrupt, I'm taking the best vacation ever :-) and I'll take my boy with me.  I'm thinking some NFL games or the green monster in Boston :-)  Thanks for the happy ending story.
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« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2015, 02:14:48 AM »

I think in your situation you will be in a very good position to get custody. My ex used the fact that I worked away for extended periods of time as her argument.

The fact that your ex is in the military she will be expected to do operational tours. This means that she will not be able to give stability whereas you can.

As her demands keep chopping and changing then maybe this can be your lever. By going back to her and saying this is my offer if you are not willing to accept it then I will go for full custody and half of everything.

Her lawyer probably realises that if it went to court this is what you will get. At the moment her lawyer probably see's you backing down and is pushing it. You need to draw a line in the sand and stick to it.

My boys were very confused by what my ex was saying. She told them she left me because I was abusive to them. They cant understand this as I never was. This is the hard bit. Trying to keep my boys out of things and lead by example. I never said anything about their mum in front of them, never tried to buy their love and stuck to my promises. I also held them accountable if they did things wrong and apologised if I did. This is a contrast with their mums behaviour. Her flip flopping has only caused the boys confusion and by being the consistent parent I have made them feel more secure.

Its great to have a plan like the holiday. Im sure you will all enjoy it ad it will happen.

EM
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madison46

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« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2015, 12:46:31 PM »

Thanks.

I gota get through court.  See what she tries to bring up.  Last time we communicated, she said I was bullying her, so now I have to print off a book of her emails to be prepared otherwise.

My ex seems to leave our son out of most of it, but she manipulates: 'I won't have seen you for 6 days' if she has to go off. 

One time she kept telling him 'don't let your day guilt trip you'. and then she told me 'he said you guilt trip him'.  So I se the smart phone on record and asked him and it recorded it all.  I sent it to her.  On there, he says 'no, it's mom that says that'.  For once, she shut up.

She's hell bent on revenge and seems willing to spend whatever to get it.

You are right about the lawyer... .he keeps wanting me to expand on a proposal.  I told him to go pound sand.  For them to come up with something.  He also tried the 'tell me what issues you agree with and it will make dealing with the others go faster'  I replied that I agree with nothing.  It's a whole package deal or nothing.  I told him we start from scratch.

I haven't heard back.  Court date is 10/9. 
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ForeverDad
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You can't reason with the Voice of Unreason...


« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2015, 05:57:44 PM »

I married her.  Within a year, at a anniversery B&B my parents got us, she went silent.  It was nothing I had ever experienced.  She was mad and sulky and gave me the silent treatment for weeks... .

It happened again within a year.  Then again.  Then a couple more times... .

People with BPD (pwBPD) are known to overreact to triggers or what they feel are traumas.  Clearly one of her triggers is something with travel.  Other common triggers are weddings, funerals, births, birthdays, holidays, packing for moving/vacations, etc.

When they're in that Zone you can't reason with them, they're not listening or refusing to listen.

BPD is an emotion-driven disorder where the closer the relationship, the more intense and more evident the disorder.  Part of that might be the person feels you're locked into the relationship now and so they can act out in private (or within the family) scenarios and you're relatively powerless as Fix-It Spouse do do anything about it.  Part too is that they can't/won't see past the huge amount of emotional baggage of the close relationship and therefore you get obstruction rather than cooperation.

She slowly got angrier and angrier.  She told my family it was because I didn't clean the house, which she hadn't seen in 5 weeks. Then said I mis-managed the money.

BPD has often been called the Blaming Disorder.  Also, Blame Shifting, nothing too horrendous or shocking or illogical to allege.

First 1/3 of our marriage, I was beside myself that I had done something wrong.  I apologized profusely.  I grovelled so-to-speak.

The middle third, I tried to find help... marriage therapist.  Books for her and me.  anti-depresants.  Dr. Phil's marriage workbook/CD set.  You name it.  She was a classy lady.  Mother of my son.  Worth saving. 

The last third of the marriage I was just pissed.

When a partner is determined not to work with you consistently, nothing works, at least not for long.  She is what she is, she does or doesn't do whatever she does or doesn't do.  Once you can wrap your head around that level of twisted illogic, even obstinacy, the only alternative is to determine what you will do to change yourself, your tactics, your strategy.

Look at our Book Reviews and Article Reviews boards, we have a number of resources there:



  • Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder - William A. Eddy & Randi Kreger (a must-have handbook!)


  • Stop Walking on Eggshells - Randi Kreger (she has a newer book now)


  • Richard Warshak's Divorce Poison (how to help children handle the divorce and alienation attempts)


  • Dr Craig Childress (advocating a better way to address parental alienation with the mental health community)


  • DrJoeCarver.com (various articles about Users, Losers and Abusers - note that this clinical psychologist writes to the reader, sticks to the behaviors and does not use diagnostic labels)




According to her... .

When the ex is acting out, ALL statements, claims and allegations - maybe with a little piece of fact - are distorted and exaggerated and we need an emotional shield to protect ourselves from the impacts and related problems.

Gawd just typing this I'm wondering WTH I stayed.

It's okay, you see the light now.  Back then you were still trying, you were still hunkered down.  That was then, this is now.  With education and information you can make for informed and more confident decisions.

Just a note, one time during a marriage therapist session, the therapist sent me away and said she only wanted to deal with my ex.

That's okay, it shifted from joint counseling to individual counseling.  At least you learned you weren't the one with the biggest problems.

Needless to say, every time she went away, I took care of the kids.

This is very important to document to the court.  Depending on how oppositional she is - and whether she has contemplated or threatened making abuse allegations - she will try to block your parenting viciously.  The Fact that you parented the children while she was away proves that she didn't see you as a risk to the children then.  (Of course once a divorce is filed, all of a sudden you are at real risk of being cast as Mr Evil Personified... . )  Sadly, in many courts Mothers get default preference when it comes to divorce, money and custody.  That makes it doubly important for a Father to be very assertive to counteract the lies and posturing.

Anyway, divorce has been dragging on 3+years.  She can't accept she may actually have to split equity in the house.  Retirements. et al.  I get 'no real man' would accept this or that.  No 'real man' would want that.  We live in CA and it's all 50/50 so she is fighting uphill battle. The problem is she makes enough to keep a lawyer on the pay roll.  I see my son's college money disappearing.  There is no 'winning'... and by winning I mean avoiding costly court battle.

Most divorces described here are a year at a minimum, normally about two years (mine was 23.5 months) and some much longer like yours.  You have to accept that you can't deal with someone who refuses to negotiate and who always demands more.  You can't.  Once you accept that, then you can see that you have to muddle through all the court's required steps as quickly as you can until you can get before the Real Authority - court.

Most divorces, including many of ours, end with a settlement.  It's just that our divorces take a lot longer until we can get the ex's entitlement reigned in a little at court.  So the key is to get to Court with as little delay as possible.  Yes, court may require mediation and settlement conferences, we will of course work with that but the difference is that we don't dawdle in those stages because the odds are so low to get realistic offers.  Odds are, the judge's decision, as much as they rattle their paper sabers and threaten that any court decision will make both parties unhappy, is probably going to be better than anything you can squeeze from the obstructive spouse.

For example, My ex started out with favorable temp orders (custody and majority time) in our separation and divorce, so she had no incentive to negotiate.  Actually, it was so good she delayed as much as she could, besides doing it to spite me.  So 2 years later when I arrived at the court house for Trial Day, I was met with the news that at least she was ready to settle.  (Months later I found out that her lawyer had told her she would lose at the trial.)  well, I was prepared for Trial and so I stated my minimum for settlement.  It was that I be the Residential Parent for School Purposes.  She begged, even cried.  I was unmoved, that was my boundary.  I figured that I couldn't let her have the edge over me and our son's school (turned out she moved out of the county the next year) and I was willing to take the risk that it would go in my favor in the trial.  She finally relented and I became RP in the last minute settlement.

So you need to decide what your boundaries are and whether you can sustain them in the divorce process.  As I wrote above, Odds are, the judge's decision is probably going to be better than anything you can squeeze from the obstructive spouse.

I think she is a narcissist.  She HAS to win.  She HAS to control.  She uses the kids.

She has to control or else feel controlled.  She has to win or else feel the loser.

Court won't care whether she has a diagnostic label or not.  Court won't try to change either one of you, it generally deals with you both as you are.  Court goes by the behaviors and behavior patterns.  Mostly the counselors and evaluators do too.  You would do well to focus on the behaviors and patterns with them.  Yes, they do have some PD (or co-morbid with traits of multiple PDs) but it's not the blazing insight that we wish it would be for court.

Also, court pays more attention to parenting behaviors than adult behaviors.  (For example, her ranting/raging/hitting you won't do much for custody, but documenting her ranting/raging/hitting at the children will.)  Yes, document it all, but give priority to how the children are impacted.  The good with you, the bad with ex.
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madison46

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« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2015, 07:06:43 PM »

Thanks @ForeverDad.

Yeah, when I left her, suddenly and less than friendly, because she had left me 9 months prior in a not so friendly, but typical BPD fashion, she is doubly vengeful.  (ie. Before leaving for training that would promote her, she said, during a fight over , you know, nothing, that I had a fat flabby belly, reminded her of her abusive step dad, that she doubted we would work out and the 9 months apart would do us good)  Well, a month before her return, she started ranting and raving about money.  That she had aqueised too much control.  I guess me handling the money for 8 months, kids in school, work, sports with the kids wasn't good.  THAT is when I told her we were through.  I wasn't going to let her come back and do that. 

Anyway, I have my step-son's bio where in 2013 he said I was a loving father.  I have her sending me a father's day card after we split telling me I was a great father.  She says she was going to go for custody back in 2012 but didn't.  I think she knew.  She brought it up again the other night. I told her what I had.  She said 'well you left the kids alone to go out of town'.  I told her she knew it and he was 13 and his brother was 19 and watched him.  The luckily I found an email where I was texting her from the plane so I doubt that gets brought up.  I doubt the judge wants to get into that in this trial, which is to set Spousal Support, Atty fees for me so I can get a lawyer, a settlement conference and a trial date.

She does owe me Spousal Support.  I 'voluntarily' took 1/3 back in the day to 'prove' I didn't want her money other than to survive, but like you said, the ask for more and more.  So I asked for the whole amount and put down that due to her travel I had the kids more.  I did print an email where she said she was going to be traveling more... which means after three years, things are back to way they were.  Except for having to explain why I voluntarily accepted 1/3, I have a good case.  THe reason I did the 1/3 was because at the time she couldn't afford more... .but now she has a maid, pool service, bug service, and despite a 17yr old son, yard service.  This is all before her money windfall starting this July.

I tried... I tried to get out not taking anything, but it's never good enough... so now I want it all, from pots and pans, couches, yard equipment etc... .everything.  She filed discovery papers on me so I copied it and served it back on her.  Then I served the increase in spousal support.  Then I served a revised listing of assets. Kitchen aid mixers to a diamond ring she bought off a friend.

If I gotta go to court, let's go... .last communications I had with her she wished things could just remain as is.  I told her nope and her lawyer and herself ruined it.  So maybe... .just maybe it is starting to dawn on her.

thanks... yes, BPD is very emotional out lash.  THinking back, I see instances.  Do anything that might point out a flaw, and the back lash was head spinning.

Thanks for the articles and letting me vent.

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