Home page of BPDFamily.com, online relationship supportMember registration here
March 29, 2024, 03:40:53 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Board Admins: Kells76, Once Removed, Turkish
Senior Ambassadors: Cat Familiar, EyesUp, SinisterComplex
  Help!   Boards   Please Donate Login to Post New?--Click here to register  
bing
Skills we were never taught
98
A 3 Minute Lesson
on Ending Conflict
Communication Skills-
Don't Be Invalidating
Listen with Empathy -
A Powerful Life Skill
Setting Boundaries
and Setting Limits
Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Boundary causing major dysregulation - impressions/advice?  (Read 408 times)
IHYIDLY

*
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 11


« on: October 01, 2015, 08:31:05 PM »

This is a long story I outlined in my first post.

Briefly:  About six weeks ago my pwBPD became significantly dysregulated.  I have faced the most intense hatred and denigration that I have ever experienced from anyone.  There have been problems and I have faced similar cycles but never at this intensity and never more than for several days.

I have always gone to as many of my kids sporting events and other events as I have been able to over the years.  Each time it was always insisted I be there and/or leave work early to do so.  I love being with my kids.  Many times I wish I could be a stay at home dad.

My daughter is for the first time this year a varsity cheerleader for football.  In early august I told her I would be at all (if I could) of her games.  Since all were scheduled for 7:00 pm this was easy.  My wife and daughter have gone to school baseball/football games without me for the last 3 years because she wanted to be with/see her friends.  I choose not to go because I really don't like sports and MOST importantly she was a spectator and not a participant.  In the previous 3 years I was randomly asked to go but did not.

Soon after I made this decision I was promptly accused of only going to SPY on my wife. ?  This was completely random and seemed out of the blue.  I thought she was out of her mind at first.  Then I began to have concern.  I began to believe this was a projection, however twisted, of some sort.

As I put various pieces of the puzzle together over the past 5-6 wks I have grown to suspect she has a ? crush/infatuation/attraction to one of my daughters friends father (single).  He happens to be at all of the games as well (son is on football team) and he has also been at the other games over the past 3 years.  There have been 4 games thus far where her odd and inconsistent behavior around him has only added to this concern.

Tomorrows game has been changed to 4:00 pm due to concern for the weather.  She said she would get my son out of school early and head down.  I said I could probably be there by 5:30.  This is what I would presume to be about half time as the other games have lasted 2 1/2 to 3hrs.  She calmly said first I shouldn't even bother because I would miss most of the game.  I said I would be there by 1/2 time and I didn't mind.

Then the flip out rage began.  She said the game would be over by 5:30 ?  I am just going to "keep an eye on her",  she doesn't want to feel "under my thumb".  I am a selfish jerk.  She want to go to just this game with only my son to be "alone".  Every possible excuse and verbally abusive statement she could think of came out.  I ask if she is going to apply the same logic to the rest of the 5 games left ... ."no... .just this one".  She tells me again how she is only here with me because of the finances and as soon as she gets a chance she is moving out.  

It went on and on and on.

I am happy to report I remained calm and applied many of the techniques described here.  I told her I was not going to justify argue defend or explain.  I am going, I made a commitment and this was my boundary.  She had no grounds or basis to forbid me to "just this one" and not the previous 4 or the upcoming 5.

Did I just experience an extinction burst?

My question is:  How would anyone else handle this nonsense?
Logged
PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES
This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

waverider
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: married 8 yrs, together 16yrs
Posts: 7405


If YOU don't change, things will stay the same


« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2015, 02:07:02 AM »

Its not an extinction burst as she got angry before you even made it a boundary.

She does feel controlled, maybe your suspicions are correct in principle, though it could be some other "secret" that she wants to keep.

Does this behavior flow into any other aspects of your life or is it just this particular issue?

I think you did fine. Maybe asking if there were any issues with you coming along as opposed to telling her you would be doing may have been less triggering. This is not asking for permission, simply it is your default to go unless there is any real reason, in your wifes view, that you shouldn't. It appears less controlling
Logged

  Reality is shared and open to debate, feelings are individual and real
IHYIDLY

*
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 11


« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2015, 08:28:40 AM »

This level of hypervigillence and preemptive almost paranoia is all brand new. I have always been asked/expected to be at these events. There are no other circumstances that I have ever been accused of "watching" her.

Her raging blaming and criticizing have been present in cycles for years.

Update:  after her malicious almost adolescent raging behavior, again seemed to radically shift last night. Whenever I get treated like crap she tends to go to the store and buy me things I like. Last night she came home after shopping with the kids having bought things especially for me. (This was during trying to get my daughter to agree with her I should not go My daughter remained neutral and did not allow herself to get roped in). She came home still angry but was in guilting mode ( since fear and obligation had failed earlier).

I went out for a 45 min walk. Upon return she was under much better control of herself - almost pleasant. This am she told me she wasn't going, calmly in a very adult fashion ( blaming the lousy weather.)

I've reviewed my observations and suspicions with close friends and most importantly my counselor. They have all said essenentially the same thing. Although there is no "smoking gun" the inferences I have drawn from her behaviors have been reasonable and do at least elevate the threshold for concern and should continue to be observed.

she is aware of my concern and discomfort with the entire situation.   It would only seem reasonable that if this is not real, as she insists, her primary concern should be complete transparency.  If she really needs to be alone apart from me it would seem she would have chosen a different event or opportunity to satisfy that need.

Being here, reading, and reaching out is making it easier to accept all of this.

Still feeling very lost.

Logged
Skip
Site Director
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 8817


« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2015, 08:57:22 AM »

I've reviewed my observations and suspicions with close friends and most importantly my counselor. They have all said essenentially the same thing. Although there is no "smoking gun" the inferences I have drawn from her behaviors have been reasonable and do at least elevate the threshold for concern and should continue to be observed.

It sounds like there is something there that is "hers" and she doesn't want you to violate it.   

It could be a friendship(s). It could be more complicated.

I think it might be best to wait for a calm time and simply ask in as non-thretenin a way as possible.  If there is a friendship with a man, you probably want to work here with the members on how to deal with it.
Logged

 
formflier
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 19076



WWW
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2015, 10:48:00 AM »

 

This is the type of thing I used to deal with ALL the time.  Luckily it is more sporadic now, but still really sucks when it comes up.

Paranoia seems to be my wife's "central" issue.  Very likely she is more PPD than BPD.  Some therapists have tried to describe the nuances to me... .it's complicated and paranoia is very resistant to being "cured" although it does seem to get better with proper application of tools.

So,  I feel for you. I've had almost word for word arguments about sporting events in years past.  Very frustrating stuff.

My recommendation.  Keep your eyes open but don't suggest any specifics... .such as a man... or even a r/s with someone else.

I seem to get most information (that is usable) when I keep my questions open and let her fill in blanks.  This takes long time, validation can help.

I agree that somehow you are on her turf (in her mind... .or in her emotions).  Don't argue with that... .or agree with it.  Just be aware.

Hang in there!  Looking forward to future posts from you on this. 

You can get through this, we can help you.

FF
Logged

IHYIDLY

*
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 11


« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2015, 11:10:14 AM »

This is where being exposed to the sheer irrational dysfunction of this disorder is leaving me turned upside down and inside out.

I want to agree and disagree with Her "protecting something she feels is hers" because of multiple confounding variables.

As briefly as I can:

A). Over the last 2-3 three years at least she has tried to have me introduce my sel to him but there was never a good opportunity.

B). In early August she told me I should make make and be friends with him because he is a nice guy.

C). Sept. 4 (first game) he drove into parking lot after us and upon seeing him she almost reflexively said "oh, there is ______ why don't u go over and say hi.

D). She has brought several male friends into our relationship over the years.  This has never been an issue because there was always transparency. She always maintained very appropriate boundaries. Two went to our wedding. One I invited to my bachelor party and we developed a friendship and stay in contact.

E). She only learned specifically of my concern about 10 days ago. 5 days ago I got an angry one sided speech about that. She defined very clear and explicit boundaries:

     1). Her only contact with him has only been at games over the last 3 years

     2). At the games she strongly implied she only sat with his ex wife ( who barely tolerates him) and his mother. He would be there sporadically and they would only discuss the kids.  

     

I gently challenged her during this conversation saying "l didn't realize you guys were such friends"

      3) Athis point she got louder and much more forceful in her delivery insisting that he is just an acquaintance.

      4). She pushed this further saying "I know him as well as I know ( our neighbor ).

Our neighbor is a great guy but if he were to move to the Australian outback tomorrow it wouldn't phase her.

      5). None of the tangible observations which have raised my concerns has she ever displayed with our neighbor or any other male acquaintance.



I have already had to deal once with her having an emotional affair. She kept that relationship sequestered, isolated and secretive ( there was significantly more history and emotional attachment ).

This time it seems more like relationship (mis) management to keep things perhaps hidden in plain site.

On the surface, given my history of very much accepting her male friends, as well as her proclamation she is as attached to him as our neighbor ( which is near nothing ) it is her incongruent behavior and responses which are just reinforcing my concerns.

tetering on this ledge of inconsistently irrational words thoughts and behaviors is driving me nuts. Everything said is contradicted by follow up words and behaviors

Is this what I will continue to experience unless she gets help. Not necessarily this issue but as a pervasive pattern across multiple further issues?

I'm trying, but it really is taking a lot of work trying to be at peace with unrest all around.

Logged
waverider
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: married 8 yrs, together 16yrs
Posts: 7405


If YOU don't change, things will stay the same


« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2015, 06:01:53 PM »

Is this what I will continue to experience unless she gets help. Not necessarily this issue but as a pervasive pattern across multiple further issues?

Most likely, once you start to read it you will see that her offers to do this or that are often thinly veiled covers for doing something she wants to keep private. Even if it sonly offerring to go to the shops for groceries when her real intent is to fulfill her current fad for ice cream/cream buns/ checking out her favorite clothes store.

The behavior is pervasive even if most of it is relatively harmless, it still has an element of sneakiness in it in order to maintain privacy for what she believes is 'her business'. The more complicated the excuses the more likely they are covers. They are in effect pushing themselves into JADE mode, and start layering excuses.

It is one of the things I have learned to accept. It is instinctive for my wife to make up covers stories for even the most innocent of things. Being completely honest makes her vulnerable and    not up to scratch. That stems from learned behavior by having a perfectionist mum
Logged

  Reality is shared and open to debate, feelings are individual and real
IHYIDLY

*
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 11


« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2015, 09:55:31 PM »

Thanks formflier for the words of encouragement and support.  I really need kindness right now.

Thanks waverider for the insight.

This is unbelievably difficult right now. 

I just got home from the game.  She did not go.  I arrived to a hellstorm.  Essentially how dare I go when I was told not to.  I can't stand the fierce hatred.  It is no longer anger anymore.  It is an energy she volcanos forth that I cannot even begin to put into words.  I am now a stalker because I am going to my daughters games.  She threatened me with a restraining order for just the games.  Unbelievably irrational.  She's evolved into an exponential dysregulated state tonight.

Everything too was right in front of my boys.  My 4 year old said "mama why are you talking to papa like that."  My 9 year old asked her to stop screaming at me in front of my 4 year old and was told "I should have left a long time ago and you wouldn't even be born or exist".

I think this is only going to get worse.  There are only 5 games left.  The closer that she gets to the end of the season the more she realizes she is not going to get her "fix" of whatever she has been getting at these games.

My opinion is she envisioned an entire football season (11-12) games where she would be able to "escape" me and the house as she puts it and live in some fantasy world enjoying the company of this individual and getting some kind of ego gratification.  It probably makes her feel fresh, vital, and important.  She thought that would be safe enough without crossing any serious boundaries.  I've gone and screwed that up now and it is like taking away a video game from my 4 year old.  She is picking up every hurtful word and vile emotion and hurling them at me as my 4 year old would throw toys at his siblings.

She is all wound up about the rest of the games.  She has complete freedom to go anywhere and do anything.  Her focus right now is trying to figure out some way to stop me from going to the games.  Last year I went to practically all of my daughters basketball cheer leading games alone or with my son (no incentive for her to go).

I got cut off half way through writing this.  Two hours have gone by.  I walked for most of it.  She got home and all hell broke loose.  She's "going to leave".  She's going to "take the kids to a hotel".  Screaming and denigrating me in front of them.  Completely off the hook.  All over these games and her perception and knowing now she cannot act freely and enjoy herself as she had intended.

If it was suggested that I was involved in something less than savory like this, and it was not true, my response would be to facilitate complete transparency.  I guess that's too rational.

Coming back to this freshly beaten I am realizing I am just driving myself nuts getting lost in the details, chaos and dysfunction.

I need a big picture plan.  I just don't know what that is.

How do I know when to take these rages seriously? 

Are they just symptoms of the larger dysfunction that will disappear and she will "forget" once her fore-brain takes back over?

Where is the functional reality.  I realize she believes her reality is real.  The complete dysfunction though is terrorizing the lives of 5 other people.  I would almost compare her tonight to a raging alcoholic - but there was no externally imbibed mood altering substance.

Any insight is always greatly appreciated.
Logged
formflier
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 19076



WWW
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2015, 06:43:19 AM »

Thanks formflier for the words of encouragement and support.  I really need kindness right now.

Dude... .I have been in your shoes.  I have felt the heat of the volcano that you talk about.  

She has lost control of you and wants it back.  She is using the only tool she knows.  

 

Whatever I can do to encourage you to think about "not taking it personally" and "detaching" a little will help.  It's hard.  "Not taking it personally" was a new concept to me.  It is critical.

Couple thoughts.

Think about how to listen less to the rages.   No good comes of it.  Take your ears elsewhere.

Come hell or high water, go to ALL the games.  :)on't taunt her with it... .just do it.  



You didn't pick this fight... .it's not fair... .it's bigger than you.  As you saw this is about your family and your kids.  It's about your wife as well.  

Try not to hate your wife... .focus anger on "beating" the disorder.  Not your wife... .somehow you need to come across as being on her side.  I'm still struggling with this... but it is my goal.

Do you have a T for you?  (just you?)

More later.

FF






Logged

IHYIDLY

*
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 11


« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2015, 07:19:59 AM »

This is a good perspective FF.  Looking at things like this is helpful.

With having had already to put up with an inappropriate secretive opposite gender relationship with an ex that she later labled as a "fall back guy" (whom she had known for 5 years before I came along) early in our relationship, and now this, I am starting to wonder how much I should really care anymore.  My counselor even remarked she strikes him to be someone who would set up seemingly innocent fall back people "just in case".

I know, however hurtful I could deal with her rages in the absence of any third party triangulation like this.  I would rather have her drinking (maybe) than self medicating her damaged psyche with another man/relationship.

I'm in for one hell of a ride I guess through Nov 6th (last game Fri night).  This appears to be her event horizon.  Every game approached and passed she is missing out on her "dose".  As her withdrawal it seems worsens so do her rages.

It's reassuring to know I am not alone.  I also feel for you FF and all others in similar shoes.  I wouldn't want anyone to feel this way.

(Tongue in cheek question) - Any reliable signs of knowing when to run?
Logged
formflier
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 19076



WWW
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2015, 07:48:08 AM »

With having had already to put up with an inappropriate secretive opposite gender relationship with an ex that she later labled as a "fall back guy" (whom she had known for 5 years before I came along) early in our relationship, and now this, I am starting to wonder how much I should really care anymore.  My counselor even remarked she strikes him to be someone who would set up seemingly innocent fall back people "just in case".

Please try to ignore this. ( I realize easier said than done)

She doesn't want the guy.  It is a tool to "get" you.  It is working.

When the tool stops working... .she will... .EVENTUALLY... .use it less.

This will take a while.

FF
Logged

IHYIDLY

*
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 11


« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2015, 08:05:32 AM »

Update:

Apparently while I was out walking she sequestered all 4 kids, 15,13,9, and 4 yo, into my daughters room and told the they had to commit to help clean up the house ( it's a complete mess ) so she could sell it.

They were told : she does not like who she is around me. They were told not to tell me things. They were told she does not like me. My 4 yo asked "Why". They were told they would just go live in an apartment. They challenged her.

She turned the tables and asked them for a better solution.

Is this what pwPBD do to their kids?

They were very emotional. They also know I've been practically begging for counseling with her for quite some time. But... .It's all my fault obviously.

I think she feels she needs to lean on the kids because in her words I have "alienated" her family and friends. By this I think she means I have revealed to them over the years enough about her behavior for them to know her dysfunction and they are likely less than fully supportive to her perspectives.

When she was ranting about me not going to the games 2 nights ago I challenged her to find 1 person to agree with her. Obviously I meant an adult. Instead she went to my 15 and 13 year old for their support.

Will she ever be able to form any insights and any capacity for self reflection?  As unhinged as she is right now I just don't know.
Logged
formflier
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 19076



WWW
« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2015, 10:00:32 AM »

Hey man!  Listen... .we are in your corner.  I am in your corner... .so when I point out stuff to drop... .or not do anymore... .or at least try to not do anymore... .please keep realizing that we are trying to help.


When she was ranting about me not going to the games 2 nights ago I challenged her to find 1 person to agree with her. Obviously I meant an adult. Instead she went to my 15 and 13 year old for their support.

Drawing lines... .challenging... ."telling" and similar things like that are energy to the fire for pwBPD.

It's not your fault that she went to the kids... .but you have your hand on the energy lever that she feeds from.  

That is why detachment is important.  It's not the games... .it's not the guy at the game... .it's the dysfunctional dance that you guys have been in for a while and the energy/support/"comfort" she gets from that dance.

Whatever you can do to remove energy from arguments, is good.

Are your kids in therapy?

She believes her parenting is fine.   For now, don't try to sell her on your version (she wants to argue... .not buy).  :)emonstrate your version.

FF
Logged

IHYIDLY

*
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 11


« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2015, 10:47:05 AM »

Truly, I am deeply appreciative for all of the help and support.

I want to be challenged on this board to be better and handle things more appropriately. I know I have been trapped in this dance for so long that I need help to see beyond it.

I used to bury everything, isolate, and think I had all of the answers. I learned, after my own self guided tour through hell, that reaching out for support, with openness and humility is the only way I am going to stay healthy.

I will definitely work on more detachment and perhaps mindfulness so that I may more calmly weather the storms.

The kids are not in therapy.  I tried to bring them last year when there was ALOT more acting out against them. I went so far as met individually with a counselor first to give her the background. Then the 3 older kids and I were to go ( and they wanted to go). Literally the day before she interfered and the appointment was cancelled. I had no inkling of BPD at that time. I had no idea what to think. I just new at the very least she was depressed and angry all the time. Taking it that far I guess was enough. Her behavior with the kids did start to improve - especially with my daughter. Looking back I should have pursued this further. I was just happy she was treating them better. Looking back, and knowing what I know now it would have been intolerable to have on record anyone else's version of her behaviors.

Thank you again for your shared experiences,insights and time.

I am realizing more and more how dealing with this is so completely counter intuitive.
Logged
formflier
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 19076



WWW
« Reply #14 on: October 03, 2015, 11:46:48 AM »

I am realizing more and more how dealing with this is so completely counter intuitive.

I like to express it this way.

There is an "order to the disorder".  It doesn't make sense to us "nons".  Once we learn that "order" we can use it to exit the dysfunctional dance.

Try not to figure out things "too exactly"... .learn the broad principles and apply them to what you should do.  Minimize time thinking about "why" she is doing... .whatever it is. 

Stop expending brain power once you have determine YOUR course of action for whatever silliness you are presented with.

Just a thought for now... .process this for several weeks before taking action... .if then.

Ask your T for a good family T.   Not one "just" for the kids but one for the entire family unit.  That family guy may... or may not recommend one for each kid.

Then let your wife know that you are concerned about the kids relations inside the family.  DO NOT point to her... .say you are taking action to help the kids relate better.  Be vague about "to what" they need to relate better.

Best case is to find 2 or 3 FTs and ask your wife if she would like to be involved in picking one.  Be clear that if after a week (or whatever period of time) you will pick, schedule and take the kids.  Wife will be invited to participate.

The key is that you do not ask if it is ok.

They will go to FT.

How does that sound?  Hopefully we can turn the temp down over the next few weeks before approaching this.

FF
Logged

Can You Help Us Stay on the Air in 2024?

Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Our 2023 Financial Sponsors
We are all appreciative of the members who provide the funding to keep BPDFamily on the air.
12years
alterK
AskingWhy
At Bay
Cat Familiar
CoherentMoose
drained1996
EZEarache
Flora and Fauna
ForeverDad
Gemsforeyes
Goldcrest
Harri
healthfreedom4s
hope2727
khibomsis
Lemon Squeezy
Memorial Donation (4)
Methos
Methuen
Mommydoc
Mutt
P.F.Change
Penumbra66
Red22
Rev
SamwizeGamgee
Skip
Swimmy55
Tartan Pants
Turkish
whirlpoollife



Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2006-2020, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!