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Author Topic: She's painted herself black.  (Read 474 times)
maxsterling
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« on: October 02, 2015, 09:04:24 AM »

Yesterday, I took the day off work for fear W is suicidal.  She took the day off as well.  This was the second time in a week I have taken a day off to spend with her because of legitimate concern over leaving her by herself.  Yesterday was about as bad as I have seen.  She now admits that her whole life she has had trouble keeping friends, trouble with jobs, co-workers, and places she's lived.  This is not new to me.  But in the past two days, she's painted herself black saying there must be something wrong with her, that she is cursed, that she shouldn't be alive, and that everything is her fault, including my health issues. 

The very sad reality is, she makes a very good argument.  And from my outside perspective, I can certainly see her role in every failed job or relationship.  It's to the point that I almost feel like I am lying when I try to lift her spirits.  If I try to encourage her, she claims I am "just saying that", and partially she is right.  Or if I am honest and agree that the stress of this relationship is a factor in my health issues (and it certainly is), then she sinks lower.  I find it nearly impossible to stay by her side and listen to these complaints about herself and walk an honest line that is not making her feel worse.

I wound up taking her to P yesterday, where she was put on an antidepressant.  Then I took her to T, where the T invited me to sit in with them.  I'm not sure if that was a good idea or not, but it did give me a perspective to where W is at.  Her T is not telling her anything different than me - and that is that bad days and bad things happen, but that dwelling on them for two long is not productive.  I've suggested the same to my wife, to allow her a certain amount of time to dwell on the negative, and then fore herself to put the negatives away.   T suggested to find healthy distractions that she can do by herself, just as I have.  T also suggested that W's claim that nobody likes her is just her perception.  Again, something I have been attempting to suggest. 

It's just difficult for me to not feel hopeless for her. 
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Notwendy
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« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2015, 09:37:48 AM »

I am sorry you are dealing with this Max,

While I understand your predicament ( and understand the situation with which you have to make the best informed decision that you can) I also wonder if taking time out from work is also reinforcing her behavior.

She may not want to be alone, for certain, but though your fear of a suicide attempt, you are also vulnerable to her wishes for you to stay and soothe her.

So here are some questions to consider:

Is it good for you and your wife for you to miss work and jeopardize your livelihood- as you are the main wage earner?

If she is truly at the point of harming herself, is she better off being home with you or getting immediate mental health care?

Are you willing to stay with her 24/7 not even taking a walk or a shower, because otherwise you can not be certain she is OK unless you are constantly there?

I don't have the answers to these Max. You have to make them, because you know the situation best. These are the "between a rock and a hard place" situations.
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« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2015, 09:38:58 AM »

 

 
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maxsterling
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« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2015, 11:23:02 AM »

Wendy - no, it's not good for me, for my wife, or for our relationship for us to take the day off to deal with her mental health issues - on a regular or long-term basis.  But yesterday?  She had already decided to take the day off by the time I woke up.  I think that was a wise decision on her part, especially considering she is a teacher.  If she was feeling that self-destructive, being in the classroom could have been volatile.  I also think had I not taken the day off, she would not have taken herself to P or T.  She would have stayed in bed, stayed on the sofa, self harmed, and boiled over.   I don't think she has any suicide plans, but she is isolating, and this is by far the most depressed I have seen her.

By the end of the day yesterday, I was emotionally spent. 

She's supposed to go to a women's retreat this weekend for AA.  It's about 45 minutes away from the house.  She's been planning this for months.  Now she says she doesn't want to go, because she is scared to be away from me.  I am supposed to work second job tonight and tomorrow.  I'm not staying home because she doesn't want to go to the retreat. 
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sweetheart
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« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2015, 11:26:56 AM »

Max was your w's presentation dramatically different from other times she has expressed these similar issues and if so how was it different? Can you isolate what was different for you this time?

What you highlight in your post for me is the essence of BPD, suicidal rumination, poor self image with distorted negative beliefs about others. Self blame, low self esteem, depressed mood. The presentation is cyclical and I am beginning to realise where my h is concerned, predictable. There is a rhythm to BPD that I have learnt to tune into, but not join in with.

What might help you here is recognising that this is symptomatic of your wife's illness, one that she will return to again and again, and that it will happen with or without you.

You mention that you feared your w was suicidal so you took time off work, did she talk about feeling suicidal with you, to her T or P ?


She's supposed to go to a women's retreat this weekend for AA.  It's about 45 minutes away from the house.  She's been planning this for months.  Now she says she doesn't want to go, because she is scared to be away from me.  I am supposed to work second job tonight and tomorrow.  I'm not staying home because she doesn't want to go to the retreat.

I suspect but cannot know that there are underlying issues here for your wife, that might be linked to your changing perspectives around your marriage. Something about this whole picture feels v controlling and emotionally manipulative on her part. I do not say this in a judgemental or pejorative way, because these are psychological tools we can all use when our known status quo is threatened.

I feel it is v important for you max to continue to work your second job and continue to strengthen your external support networks as you have been doing.
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« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2015, 11:44:10 AM »

Do you feel your wife's T is being proactive enough? Has she every been diagnosed? I know on here we say don't focus on the diagnosis, but I still feel that T's or Psychiatrists need to know what the diagnosis in order to help. I mean, alcoholics are helped accepting that they are alcoholics, and that that doesn't make them bad people. I think with BPD(or most PDs), it's the same. Could this time be used to get her the serious help she really needs?

My BPDh hit a "low", and it didn't last long, but he did end up getting put in DBT, and finally getting on meds. It probably wasn't rock bottom for him(maybe that will come some day), but it got him to a somewhat better place. He wasn't painting himself black like your wife was, but maybe it's good that she's doing so? Maybe she's having a moment of clarity, and change can come from that? Did her T point out that there may be some truth to the things she's saying, and that once you know better, you can do better? Something to that extent? Maybe if your wife stopped feeling victimized, and had a plan(like DBT), she'd start to feel she's building a better life? That seemed to be the case with BPDh. He even texted all his kids and told them he's getting help(three of the four want little to do with him).

I agree that it's not good that she'd sunk so low, but as you said, lots of it is the truth. If she sees that, and her T's doesn't encourage her to work on things that got her here, to me, that would be a shame. She deserves a happier life, and so do you, Max.

Hang in there. It must be hard to be facing this.
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maxsterling
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« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2015, 11:58:31 AM »

Max was your w's presentation dramatically different from other times she has expressed these similar issues and if so how was it different? Can you isolate what was different for you this time?

Yes, different. Different because *everything* became hopeless for her.  Different because she was almost arguing her own case that she should not live.   Different because she was very honest about all the things she had tried before and how they had all failed.  Previous times she has been real low, she was still in a "blame others" mode.  This time it was either blame herself or blame God.  Before it was "everybody else is bad, and I don't want to live in a world full of bad people."  This time it is, "I can't seem to figure life out, perhaps I am bad, and the world would be better off without me."

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« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2015, 12:20:04 PM »

Does she need inpatient care?

I think you did what anyone in your position would do, if a loved one was having difficulty.


It may help to think of this as any situation where a family member may need assistance. Of course, if any one of us felt our loved ones were ill, we would take off work and help out.

The problem is if this is frequent and continuous. Then this is not an occasional event but a frequent and somewhat predictable one. You may not be able to know exactly when it happens, but that it is likely to.

This may not be different from having a family member with a chronic condition, and families in that situation may come up with a plan to deal with it. It is also known that this kind of thing can result in unemployment and caretaker stress, but people make the best choice they have.

One example is that I have a friend who was stricken with Schizophrenia. It is tragic. I know he husband still goes to work, but I think there is a care plan in place for when she has "breaks". On occasion she starts calling people and she has called me, hallucinating. I then have called on close family friends to check in on her. I know she has a medical plan in place and is probably not left alone when she is in a bad situation. Her husband has to work.  Other times, she is functional and I see her getting about on her own.

The hard part about BPD is the secrecy and shame, and lack of good mental health care, but IMHO, I think that the same kind of plan and support would be helpful- It is possible that if she can not be left alone at these times that she may even need inpatient care.

Sweetheart could also be on to something. When Dad was sick, mom knew that we would come to help. It is a bit of a drive to get there, but for the situation, I would do it. It wasn't without difficulty for me though, as I had to arrange child care for my kids. Once I was there for over a week. I drove all the way home, only to get a call to come quick, Dad was "dying". Well, I jumped back in the car and went back. Dad was not doing well, but he was not dying. A home health nurse had already assessed the situation and had him sent to the hospital where he was to get what he needed: medical care, antibiotics. My presence was not needed.

I am aware that emotionally, mom needed someone. Furthermore, dad has peace of mind in the hospital knowing that mom is not alone. I understand that it was helpful to them for me to be there, and would do it if I could, but --- I had my own children, and could not abandon them at a moment's notice on a long term basis- and mom learned the power of calling me up to tell me my father was "near death" to get me to run at any time. I would have gladly done it, but I had to choose to consider the needs of my family and mine too.

I had to accept that medical people were more adept at his care than I am.

I also learned to ask to speak to a nurse when mom called to tell me how dire the situation was.


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« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2015, 12:22:42 PM »

Hey max, take a step back from your wife's issues. For a minute, at least.

Yes, she needs help/support. Yes, she is at risk of harming herself. And yes, you can do something by being there.

How much can you personally afford to give her right now? I'm pretty sure you cannot easily afford to lose your job due to this kind of thing.

I also recall how much the stress and pressure was costing you, both mentally/emotionally and physically. You are sounding better than you did a while back, but not GOOD yet.

If you give her all you've got, she's likely to need you just as much when you are spent as she does now. Please put yourself first, even as you are supporting her the best you can.
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sweetheart
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« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2015, 12:36:53 PM »

I can understand how that is distressing to hear and be around and unfortunately it is still very typical of a BPD diagnosis. It may be of little consolation, but clearly both her P and T did not feel she was an active risk to herself or they would have acted differently.

My h moves fluidly between blaming others and torturing himself with self blame and self loathing.

With my h I have have learnt to listen and validate statements like ' If I had a gun I'd shoot myself in the head right now, you'd all be better off without me... .'  'I wish I was dead, I'm useless, I've got no friends, everyone thinks I'm a waster, I don't know why you stay with me... .' - usually he is not dysregulated during these times and is wanting me or someone to listen.

I am not minimising any of these behaviours they are all upsetting for all involved, but over the years my h has made hundreds of these statements. I have come to accept that there is nothing I can do that will alter the course of this aspect of his illness. I believe it is an intrinsic part of his emotional make-up and indicates to me that he is aware in that moment that is life is not as others lives are. I can validate that sadness for him, but I can't change it.

It is worth saying that serious dysregulation has usually preceded all my h's self-harming episodes inc overdoses.

Max have you looked at 'the waif' criteria around BPD? This was in my head as I was reading your post, I found this definition on bpdfamily "Loving the Waif Without Rescuing Her (Implying a clear sense of self and ability to hold boundaries.  :)e-tangling co-dependent relationship tendencies would be part of healing)" - it is really important that you do not loose yourself in an illness that will continue to be enduring.

Do you have a clear Safety Plan in place around suicide/suicidal ideation with your wife? One that covers you in work and at home.
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maxsterling
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« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2015, 02:16:00 PM »

Do you feel your wife's T is being proactive enough? Has she every been diagnosed? I know on here we say don't focus on the diagnosis, but I still feel that T's or Psychiatrists need to know what the diagnosis in order to help. I mean, alcoholics are helped accepting that they are alcoholics, and that that doesn't make them bad people. I think with BPD(or most PDs), it's the same. Could this time be used to get her the serious help she really needs?

She's been diagnosed BPD multiple times, by multiple clinicians, over a span of a decade or more.  If a person knew anything about BPD at all, it would not take long to suspect or diagnose it in my wife.  She easily meets all diagnostic criteria, and is very open.  She is not very good about hiding her troubles. 

As for wife's T being proactive enough - I did notice in session that T was trying to push my wife towards constructive outlets that are not work and are not AA (or me).  I also noticed that T challenged her a bit on this, but not so far as to get my wife to feel shame.  I think this is sound therapy.  The problem is, W then comes home after telling T she will try this or that, and yet does nothing but make excuses.  T seemed to convince W after an hour that she was not fatally flawed, yet she has issues to work on, but dwelling on the issues is making it worse. 

I think the issue is that this is just talk therapy.  T can validate, help my wife think through problems in session, and help her feel a bit more hopeful, but the minute she leaves and her brain starts running again, all that was gained in session goes out the window.  If I was T, I would try pushing for DBT or another therapy.  I don't know if T has tried or not, but W is definitely lacking in the skills at controlling her thoughts and emotions.  For example, T can convince W that dwelling on negatives is a bad idea, to quit focusing on problems beyond her control, to look for silver linings, etc.  W can agree that all of that is good, but lacks the skills to actually implement it. 
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« Reply #11 on: October 02, 2015, 04:30:24 PM »

Max, GK has a great point about how your wife's latest moods have resulted in you taking the focus off you, and your own self care back on to your wife's.

Your wife has some serious needs, but you also have to make a choice about taking care of yours or not.

I can relate to this because, I too, was willing to give up my needs for other people. First my parents then my H. But no matter how much I gave of myself, there didn't seem to be a point to where the need was filled, and I ended up feeling burned out.

I mention my mother more on your threads because your wife is more like her. My relationship with my H is different, he pretended he didn't have needs, but then, without my knowing it, got his needs met through anger. I was so afraid of his anger that I practically gave up everything I liked to do outside of the home and kids. This met his needs to keep me around, ( fear of me leaving him for someone else) and I let my fear of his anger be the motive for not pursuing my interests or needs.

With my mother, I am the caretaker. Visits home are not to visit. They are to help mom, take care of mom, or do something for mom. Her need for attention is constant. When I visit, it feels similar to being with a toddler, because toddlers want a lot of attention.

I realized that if I allowed it, I could literally lose myself in trying to meet their needs, but that would not be good for me. There is a limit to what I can do. At times, I can give my mother as much attention as possible but I can't watch her 24/7 , and if she were to need that kind of care, then I will need to get medical help for her. I can't solve my H's fear that I will have an affair or leave him by staying home. He has to be left to deal with that.

Your wife's needs are what they are. What can you do to take care of yourself?
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GaGrl
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« Reply #12 on: October 02, 2015, 06:14:12 PM »

Mastering, if I remember correctly from a spring to now, is your wife on about a six-week cycle with these periods of despondency? Has she also been diagnosed birthday-polar? Her P should be picking up on the cycle time.
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maxsterling
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« Reply #13 on: October 02, 2015, 06:34:35 PM »

Mastering, if I remember correctly from a spring to now, is your wife on about a six-week cycle with these periods of despondency? Has she also been diagnosed birthday-polar? Her P should be picking up on the cycle time.

No.  She's seriously depressed 50% of the time, somewhat depressed 40% of the time, and slightly depressed 10% of the time.  She had been diagnosed bipolar, but none of those meds helped her at all.   There definitely is a cycle, but it's not really of any given time frame.  The cycle resembles the "domestic abuse" cycle.  If anything, the cycle used to be mostly monthly, based mostly on money and her getting a disability check once per month.  Her current cycle is mostly weekly, having to do with her work schedule.
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« Reply #14 on: October 02, 2015, 07:32:18 PM »

So you are watching her cycling... .that's good.  She just seemed to fall into these critical depressions that were worse than the day-to-day BPD craziness (there is an oxymoron in there somewhere).
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