How do you deal with the constant negativity?

[Cloudy Days]

I get it that I am suppose to take time for myself, and take care of myself but sometimes that is a difficult thing to do. Lately my husband has been nothing but negative towards our relationship together. Most of the time telling me how he is going to get a divorce the next day or that he is done with our relationship. He has started to insult my intelligence which bothers me because I know I am a smart person. Sometimes common sense is lacking but I have a ton of book smarts. He has often referred to himself as more intelligent than me and even feels he is better than me in so many ways. How do you deal with the small jabs every day. It's not something that is outright abusive but small abuses throughout the day. He doesn't rage but will call me a name in a joking manner or insult me in some way. He has attacked things that I have a very hard time dealing with and then acts like I am over reacting. I cannot have children and he will mention in passing something that just cuts through me, then acts as if it is nothing, then I am called the crazy one. Yes I have my moments but it's like a dripping faucet, its not rush of abuse all at once, but it adds up no less. I sometimes just ignore the things because it is easier to ignore the comment than it is to make a boundary around it. I find myself emotional eating a lot which is unhealthy and I hate the fact that I do it. I'm not really sure how to get rid of the sting though. Like I said it's not like a constant thing, it's something once every hour. Something demeaning or just outright mean. Commenting on how I clean, or how I manage our money, or how I take care of our dogs, anything and everything is up for ridicule, in between are comments about infidelity and how he doesn't trust me. It's exhausting to feel this way all the time. To feel like my husband never has my back. On top of the ridicule and put downs, he also doesn't do anything around our home. He complains that it is too dirty and that I ruined him of ever wanting to clean again because of my housekeeping which is a joke because the house would be clean if I didn't have to clean up after him. I have tried leaving it and I can't live in filth like that. I am at a loss for what to do. When he was raging he would at least pull his own weight on the housekeeping and we would have good times too. Now he is just down all the time and the good times are laced with the comments I talked about.

I honestly thought about stopping to write on this site because I got a lot of judgment on my last post because my husband drank and drove. I am not about to allow him to do something like this, it was not allowed last time so much as snuck by me, I need help with my life because if this is what it is to live. I don't feel I have much to live for. This is not a suicide thought, just a sad thought of I can't stand anything and I have lost faith in people, in religion, in life and in my relationship with my husband. I have hardened my heart and I don't want it to be this way. I need to find a light at the end of the tunnel. Right now leaving isn't an option as much as I would like it to be. I am stuck here for now but I can't live like this anymore.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Chilibean13]

One thing that I do with the little mean jabs is I try to get him to see how it makes me feel. I will explain that it really hurts my feelings when he says (fill in the blank). Then I ask, how would it make you feel if I poked at your about (fill in the blank with something he is sensitive about)? He will usually say that it would make him feel bad and apologize.

Other times, I will say something like, "WHat is the purpose of bringing that up without cause? That hurts my feelings. Please stop."

In these situations I don't attack him or blame him. I question his motives. I think in these moments, he feels bad about himself and he needs someone to take it out on so he gets these little jabs in. In my opinion, these little missles can be more dangerous to my self-worth than the things he says when he rages. At least when he rages I know that he is out of control. When it's purposeful it seems sadistic.

It's hard not to take the things they say to heart. This is the man you love and he is telling you that you don't live up to his expectation. Every single day, sometimes every single moment, I have to take what he says and question the validity of it to myself. I absolutely have to tell myself that I am not the horrible person he says I am and counter that with truth. I'm not sure what your religious background is, but for myself I take the truths from the Bible and verses that tell me that I am a child of God, I am loved, and that I am worthy not because of who I am but because of how GOd sees me.

[waverider]

Your issue is how to make any boundaries about "attitude" rather than issues. a lot of that evolves around your need to justify you actions to enforce boundaries. This is because individual issues are small he can nitpick your reasons for making a stance. That is a divide and conquer technique.

To deal with this your boundaries should be set around how you are made to FEEL.  eg I will not be made to feel small. No further explanation or JADE required. He may plead that you are being silly and want you to back this up. DON'T. You reengage once you no longer FEEL uncomfortable. It is up to him to work out not to do this, you don't need to convince him. Dont react to individual jabs. They are one issue, not seperate issues.

[goateeki]

I get it that I am suppose to take time for myself, and take care of myself but sometimes that is a difficult thing to do. Lately my husband has been nothing but negative towards our relationship together. Most of the time telling me how he is going to get a divorce the next day or that he is done with our relationship. He has started to insult my intelligence which bothers me because I know I am a smart person. Sometimes common sense is lacking but I have a ton of book smarts. He has often referred to himself as more intelligent than me and even feels he is better than me in so many ways. How do you deal with the small jabs every day. It's not something that is outright abusive but small abuses throughout the day. He doesn't rage but will call me a name in a joking manner or insult me in some way. He has attacked things that I have a very hard time dealing with and then acts like I am over reacting. I cannot have children and he will mention in passing something that just cuts through me, then acts as if it is nothing, then I am called the crazy one. Yes I have my moments but it's like a dripping faucet, its not rush of abuse all at once, but it adds up no less. I sometimes just ignore the things because it is easier to ignore the comment than it is to make a boundary around it. I find myself emotional eating a lot which is unhealthy and I hate the fact that I do it. I'm not really sure how to get rid of the sting though. Like I said it's not like a constant thing, it's something once every hour. Something demeaning or just outright mean. Commenting on how I clean, or how I manage our money, or how I take care of our dogs, anything and everything is up for ridicule, in between are comments about infidelity and how he doesn't trust me. It's exhausting to feel this way all the time. To feel like my husband never has my back. On top of the ridicule and put downs, he also doesn't do anything around our home. He complains that it is too dirty and that I ruined him of ever wanting to clean again because of my housekeeping which is a joke because the house would be clean if I didn't have to clean up after him. I have tried leaving it and I can't live in filth like that. I am at a loss for what to do. When he was raging he would at least pull his own weight on the housekeeping and we would have good times too. Now he is just down all the time and the good times are laced with the comments I talked about.

I honestly thought about stopping to write on this site because I got a lot of judgment on my last post because my husband drank and drove. I am not about to allow him to do something like this, it was not allowed last time so much as snuck by me, I need help with my life because if this is what it is to live. I don't feel I have much to live for. This is not a suicide thought, just a sad thought of I can't stand anything and I have lost faith in people, in religion, in life and in my relationship with my husband. I have hardened my heart and I don't want it to be this way. I need to find a light at the end of the tunnel. Right now leaving isn't an option as much as I would like it to be. I am stuck here for now but I can't live like this anymore.

I lived like this for 19 years.

Life is much, much better now.

[RedPixie]

Hello Cloudy Days,

I'm new here so i don't have any great wisdom to add just yet

but i just wanted to say - it could have been me that wrote every single word you have shared here.  Feeling all the things.

My SO loves to correct every single thing i do

"You should have" ... .or shouldn't have ... .

This used to upset me soo much

I felt he didn't trust me , i couldn't do anything without running it past him

for fear of being criticised. ... it paralised me for a while. But it was me stopping myself

he was only offering clever suggestions and it was me that was taking it as criticism.

Now i try to be stronger and aknowledge his suggestions saying I'll be sure to try that next time... .

X x

[Beacher]

Please don't stop posting. I am in AA and a motto I've learned to live by is ' take what you need and leave the rest' when it comes to multiple opinions. Everyone is just trying to help by sharing their experience, strength and hope.

With so many jabs and insults from him it's natural to start feeling more and more down on yourself and thinking ' is he right?' It's their way of building themselves up because they feel so poorly about themselves. Whenever my husband starts that I pause and say " what did you just say?' And make him repeat it, because more often than not he denies saying it or ' I didn't mean anything by it, you took it the wrong way'. Then ask him not to speak to me like that.

I also surround myself with positive friends and family that make me feel good about myself. I am a woman of dignity and pride and NO one- not a spouse, child, boss or ANYONE will take that away from me. Ever. To thine own self be true . XOXO

[Grey Kitty]

It's not something that is outright abusive but small abuses throughout the day.

It IS abusive.

Just because he isn't raging, screaming, hitting, etc. doesn't stop it from being abusive.

It is tearing you down, and that is abuse.

Like waverider suggested, enforce a boundary about being told things that make you feel that way.

Please understand that you won't be able to convince him to stop. What you can do is convince him that you won't be there and listen when he does it. He may stop eventually, but don't make that your goal. Make your goal to stop being subjected to it.

[Cloudy Days]

I know that it is abusive, how would I put a boundary around it? I actually know that none of it has to do with me, I do so much, I do value myself in a lot of ways. He has not torn that from me in all of his abusiveness. I have not been able to shake a depression that has come over me, I think it has made me give up trying. I do what I have to do and that is all I do. Then I do what I want. I have a fear that I am going to live my life this way and it will be too late to find my happiness in life. I have been with him for 10 years, I do not want it to turn into 19 miserable years. I lost my Father earlier in the year and It's just been a tough year all together. I cry most days on my way to work, and even on my way home depending on the day. I used to be a Christian, was even baptized a couple years ago. Always believed just never grew up in a heavily religious family and I honestly have stopped believing in God in all of this. I don't know what made it click, I just don't believe anymore. My husband is heavily religious so obviously this is a problem to him. I get blamed for not being a believer now. I just hide the fact that I don't believe anymore. I can still be a good person and have good values and beliefs without believing in something I don't feel is real anymore. It just kind of adds to the sadness though, to me there is no one out there looking out for me, there never has been. I just started thinking about all the crazy people who take ahold of the thought of God or any religion and use it against another person. My husband has used it against me many times, even claiming the Bible says that Woman is lesser than Man. Anyways enough about that epiphany. The one thing I have craved my entire life has been love. My parents love and loved me, my Grandmother loved me dearly but I don't know why I have always craved it from outside of my family. I have never really gotten it in the form that I want it. My best friend in high school was a very crummy person, I have always been very introverted and shy so it's hard for me to make friends. I basically traded my crummy friend for my crummy and abusive husband. That's what causes so much pain for me, that I feel unloved. Every jab he makes, or criticism he has it just makes me feel unloved, unappreciated. I take pride it everything I do, I just want that acceptance that I have never gotten from my husband and he reminds me of it every day, of how much he doesn't accept me.

[formflier]

I know that it is abusive, how would I put a boundary around it? 

When he takes a jab... .walk away.

Or perhaps say that you won't listen to negativity... .or abuse... .or whatever you want to name it.

The key is consistency... .he "jabs"... you walk.

However... follow this up with... .he says something nice.  Slow down... pay attention to him. 

We all want to be loved... .we want to be accepted... ."warts and all". 

Full disclosure:  I'm a conservative Christian guy... .there have been times in my life when I've questioned things.

God wants to be questioned... .

I think I know the type of person (in religious circles) that your husband is.  "How dare you say you don't believe... ."  Yet... .if we can't be honest with our spouses about our feelings about God, religion and those types of things... .who can we be honest with?

Well... .I would suggest that you be honest with God.  And I hope you can find a trusted pastor or religious friend that you can be honest with.  Someone that will listen and guide... .but not judge.

I rarely speak to my wife about religious things anymore.  Yet she teaches Sunday school and we go to church together.  Pray together over meals.  Last "deep" religious conversation that we had (about the role of women in the church) led her to say that she felt deceived and she wished she hadn't married me.  If she had known I believed as I do... she would never have married me... .she questioned when I changed my beliefs.

Well... .I believe the new testament letters were to specific churches about specific issues and were not the "rulebook" about how ALL churches should be set up (with respect to women).  My beliefs have been the same since before I married my wife. 

She has known this since before she married me.  I could tell more stories were I was "bashed" with religion... .I just avoid it now (with my wife). 

FF

[Cloudy Days]

I think I question it because of so many things not making sense. Why would God make someone a certain way and then say that it is a sin to be that way? He tests certain people more than others supposedly because that is what they can handle? Or is it just some mumbo jumbo someone made up to make themselves feel better about the crap that has been slung at them their entire lives. I've had a lot of crap slung at me and not just because I married my husband. I have always been a kind soul, someone who believes in being nice to others no matter how they treat you. I see religion doing the opposite, causing judgment and hate and so many other terrible things. It's all a bit hypocritical to me, I know most religious people judge when they shouldn't be judging. I am just tired of living in such a hateful world. Even through all I have been through I do not hate anyone. I am just tired of being told what is and what isn't because a book said so. A book that was written and rewritten and rewritten again, ages after it actually happened. I can be a good person, without a book telling me how to do it.

I will try the boundaries you have stated, although, I don't really just stand there are allow him to jab at me unless I am sitting in a vehicle and there is no out. I fight back and I do it regularly. I tell him that what he says hurts, and that I am not happy with how things are. I have told him many times that my faith is lacking and I told him he has no right to judge me because he has said the same things before. I just go on and pray at the dinner table and act as if I still have a belief. Maybe I do somewhere but I don't trust people anymore. I never really have trusted anyone with my feelings. I've seen therapists and I can spill my heart to them but I don't want to continue to see them afterwards. Sounds like I have fleas, getting too close scares the hell out of me. I think most of all I want to be backed by my husband and that will never happen. He doesn't think I am smart, or at least he feels other people including himself are more intelligent than me, He thinks I am a whore who sleeps around with anyone who has a penis, when in reality I have started to hate men (I know not all men are the same). There have been so many times that he has tried to discourage me in some way with the things that I love in life. I have always been artistic and he has told me outright before that he didn't believe I could do something. He always questions my ability to cook and is always surprised when it tastes good. I think I am heart broken by having someone in my life never believe in me. Which is funny because I don't necessarily believe in my husband anymore. But he has a record of letting me down over and over again. I have always been a rock when it comes to standing beside him and telling him he can achieve something. Even though he says that I am not there. Acceptance is just the start of it, having a partner is the ultimate thing I need and I don't think he will ever truly be my partner. How do I accept this?

[waverider]

Abuse by attrition is difficult to deal with. Firstly because it is not obvious, not even to the abuser. They dont feel like they are being abusive, just asserting their cleverness. Each act is not glaringly obvious. The harm is done to you as it compounds, for the abuser, especially one with BPD, they dont link this cumulative effect.

It is harder to defend yourself against as it means being on guard all the time, this is what makes it particular exhausting. Any consequences you enact seem over the top as they appear an extreme reaction to a small trigger, as opposed to the bigger picture.  It makes any boundaries harder to uphold as you are also easily convinced that your reaction is over the top.

Apparent over the top reactions make projection of abuse onto you easier as you start to look like the bully, victimizing them with your "unreasonable" reaction. So you hold back, the end result predictably is that when you do blow up it is even more extreme and less objective.

To the abuser this behavior becomes an entrenched personality trait, a habit if you like, they may not even be aware of it, as it is often not meant with deliberate malice, its just an unhealthy way to boost their own ego.

The only way to deal with it is to take it away from the issues and address it early before it makes you angry. It may take a long time before they actually understand what it is you are actually addressing. As they can't see it.

[Grey Kitty]

I will try the boundaries you have stated, although, I don't really just stand there are allow him to jab at me unless I am sitting in a vehicle and there is no out. I fight back and I do it regularly. I tell him that what he says hurts, and that I am not happy with how things are.

Yes, but that isn't how I'd enforce that boundary.

He gives you a little invalidating jab.

You end the conversation and walk out, because it was hurtful. My next recommendation is to give him space for a while--at least until you have recovered from feeling hurt by this. (Go do something that will take at least half an hour, which you will enjoy doing or be glad to have accomplished it... .and worry about how you feel after that)

DON'T tell him it was hurtful. That just gives him open season to invalidate you AGAIN by telling you that your hurt feelings are inappropriate, or unjustified.

I'm probably a lot more blunt and crude than you are, but there were times when I got an invalidating hurtful comment, and I just calmly said f*** you, and ended the conversation on that note. I wasn't going to explain why it was harsh, mean, or invalidating.

Besides... .like my wife at those times, your husband didn't "accidentally" say something hurtful. He actively chose to say something hurtful, to put you down and build himself up. I wouldn't say it is calculated to be hurtful, although that is possible; I don't think my wife ever did it that way with me. He may not even be aware of it, like waverider says. But it isn't an accident that they find the most effective button you have and keep pushing it.

I realized that every time I verbally challenged something hurtful, the response I got was doubling down on the hurtfulness... .time to change my response!

I don't really just stand there are allow him to jab at me unless I am sitting in a vehicle and there is no out.

The boundary to protect you from that situation is to not get into a vehicle with him in the first place, or be prepared to insist that he stop and leave you at the side of the road immediately (having previously arranged with a friend to pick you up if he does it).

And there are a lot of times where it would seem "sensible" to take one car together. You don't need to be sensible. You need to protect yourself.

I don't know how often problems happen in the car--this may not be a battle you want to fight.

[Cloudy Days]

Abuse by attrition is difficult to deal with. Firstly because it is not obvious, not even to the abuser. They dont feel like they are being abusive, just asserting their cleverness. Each act is not glaringly obvious. The harm is done to you as it compounds, for the abuser, especially one with BPD, they dont link this cumulative effect.

It is harder to defend yourself against as it means being on guard all the time, this is what makes it particular exhausting. Any consequences you enact seem over the top as they appear an extreme reaction to a small trigger, as opposed to the bigger picture.  It makes any boundaries harder to uphold as you are also easily convinced that your reaction is over the top.

Apparent over the top reactions make projection of abuse onto you easier as you start to look like the bully, victimizing them with your "unreasonable" reaction. So you hold back, the end result predictably is that when you do blow up it is even more extreme and less objective.

To the abuser this behavior becomes an entrenched personality trait, a habit if you like, they may not even be aware of it, as it is often not meant with deliberate malice, its just an unhealthy way to boost their own ego.

The only way to deal with it is to take it away from the issues and address it early before it makes you angry. It may take a long time before they actually understand what it is you are actually addressing. As they can't see it.

Thank you this makes a lot of sense.  I think I also struggle with the fact that we are both very sarcastic people. I once read something that sarcasm can be great between two people who trust each other. Trust with me and my husband is pretty much negligible at best and we are both sarcastic people. So he will say something that he says is playing and I take it to heart. Because so many times he says something and he is not playing so who the heck knows when he is being serious or not.

Thank You Grey Kitty, I don't think I am going to jump out of any cars soon but I can walk away, the car thing isn't a big problem, it has been in the past but for the most part he doesn't actually go anywhere unless he is in a decent mood so it hasn't been a problem lately, I usually just ignore and go do something in the house/another room unless I have had a particularly hard day and it just makes me snap at him. Which makes things worse because this triggers him. I feel exhausted from dealing with this all the time. I even took a break for myself this weekend and did some of my crafting. The one thing I truly enjoy doing and I still feel drained. I woke up this morning to go to work and my husband was plastered, he had been drinking all night. At least I know he will be passed out most of the day but it was still disappointing to wake up to. I had to take yesterday off to deal with the heating guy because our heat isn't working. He does not work but would not wake up because he didn't go to sleep till 5:00. I cannot count on him for anything.

[formflier]

  I think I also struggle with the fact that we are both very sarcastic people. I once read something that sarcasm can be great between two people who trust each other. Trust with me and my husband is pretty much negligible at best and we are both sarcastic people. 

Can you change this... .regardless of whether or not your hubby does?

Use less... .or no sarcasm?

FF

[Cloudy Days]

I know when and when not to use it as far as how his mood is at the moment. It's when he dishes it out constantly, I can laugh with him sometimes but then most of the time it's just mean. I know not to say that kind of stuff when he is upset, it's like throwing gas on a fire.

[formflier]

I know when and when not to use it as far as how his mood is at the moment. It's when he dishes it out constantly, I can laugh with him sometimes but then most of the time it's just mean. I know not to say that kind of stuff when he is upset, it's like throwing gas on a fire.

If it is bugging you when he starts dishing it out constantly... .can you exit the conversation?  Tried that?

FF

[Cloudy Days]

Like I said before, it's not constant as in the same conversation, it's constant as in all day. He will slip something in, and then laugh about it. Then a half hour later will slip something else in. The little Jabs that he doesn't necessarily see as abusive or hurtful but they add up. Sometimes I can laugh with him as I know he is playing and I can laugh at myself and my own flaws, other times they are not funny and I am hurt by them. I think most people have things they are aware of and can laugh it off and have other things that they do not have humor about. My husband has been telling me that I am unattractive lately. It's not part of the little jabs, but when he gets angry at me. Then when things have calmed down he will put in a little jab about my weight or something similar. He is heavier than me and we are the same height so this really eats at me when he says something because he knows he is heavier than me. He has gained 100lbs in a year! I know he is saying the things he says because he is down on himself. I've pointed out to him that I try not to eat really unhealthy and point out the choices he makes in food over the choices I make, (I make separate meals a lot of the time even). It usually shuts him up. It's just another part of what drains me.

[formflier]

  Sometimes I can laugh with him as I know he is playing and I can laugh at myself and my own flaws, other times they are not funny and I am hurt by them. 

Tell me more about this... .when can you play along... .when are you hurt.

We need to understand this part before trying to address it with him... .or to create a strategy for you to address this.

FF

[Cloudy Days]

I guess just certain things I know I am flawed about, I am clumsy, I am not a great housekeeper, I pick my nose occasionally, I am human and can laugh at those things those are just things that I am not going to get upset about. I will usually throw something sarcastic back at him that is comparable and we can laugh. But there are also things like my weight, my father/family, my ability to have children that he should know are off limits and are really damaging to my emotional state. I didn't grow up in a great happy family as I think most people on this board probably didn't. He will say I am just like my parents who drank a lot and both cheated on each other. They were not abusive to me but my father would get abusive to my mother on occasion and they fought all the time (more than me and my husband fight). Which I say isn't abusive to me but I know I am forever damaged by the things that happened. I just still have emotional scars and he knows it. He will say I am trashy or something of that nature. He even went as far as saying some guy he knew when we first met asked why he was wasting his time on a trashy girl like me. I'm pretty sure it was a lie that he told to hurt me. Obviously If it's something that truly hurts I don't just sit there. That's why this is difficult, there is no clear cut line of where to draw a line. There are two extremes but there is also things that are right on the line of playing vs. abusive.

[Grey Kitty]

I find it easier to address the general problem starting with a detailed specific example.

Can you describe the full conversation you had, leading up to a "jab" and including your reaction?

The exact words and important non-verbal parts and your specific feelings.

Then we can work with you can change your role in the pattern to protect you from it.

[Cloudy Days]

Off the top of my head I can't really say a specific exchange. I will think about it tonight when I go home as this is an every day thing and something will come up.

Yesterday I stayed away from him a lot, I was doing my crafts and he kept calling me to go do something, help him with the dogs, asking me what there is to eat. Obviously trying to pull me away from what I was doing and making me pay attention to him. He didn't really get in any truly mean jabs until after we had sex. He said, I don't see us being together much longer. Out of left field, just threw it in after we had a good moment with each other. I asked him why he said that and he told me to not talk to him. The only jab I can think of was we were getting ready to eat dinner and I stretched and my stomach showed. He said "have you been working out" and poked my belly. I said "yep can't you tell?" and that was the end of it. I wasn't really hurt by that specific comment because the mood wasn't bad but that's the sort of comment I am talking about.

[Grey Kitty]

The only jab I can think of was we were getting ready to eat dinner and I stretched and my stomach showed. He said "have you been working out" and poked my belly. I said "yep can't you tell?" and that was the end of it. I wasn't really hurt by that specific comment because the mood wasn't bad

Really, you weren't hurt even a little bit by that comment?

To me it is 100% clear that that was a way to say that your belly was fat and you should be working out to fix it.

If you don't think that is hurtful... .ask ANY of the guys here what they would expect to happen if they did that to their female partner with BPD! They wouldn't even DARE to think of doing it is my bet.

[Cloudy Days]

That's why I am considering it a Jab... .I just blow things off easily, I've always been able to let little things go without a bat of a eye, which is probably a bit of a weakness when dealing with someone who has BPD. We have gotten to the point where we can both stand in front of the mirror and touch bellies and laugh about it. I have made fun of him too (when I felt it was a safe thing to do) I guess I am able to laugh about it because he is larger than me. If he looked better than me I would feel differently about it for sure. But I also know the way it is said and the mood he is in has a lot of effect on how I feel about it. It was a let it all out sort of moment, if I was trying to look good in that moment it would have hurt. If I was trying to attract him at the moment it would have hurt. I did pull my shirt over my stomach after the exchange but I didn't think much of it after that, other than referencing it here because I know it was a jab. He's said much worse things that did hurt but the moment and mood of things always are a factor in how I feel about it. There are certain names he uses that are basically abusive and he finds them funny. Such as Peanut referring to my brain as a peanut and he acts like this is funny. He has stopped using the reference but he usually finds something else at some point. Currently he is on the you are unattractive thing. Even texting his brother, mother and cousin venting to them and telling them that he is not attracted to me anymore. I find this more damaging than anything. His mother I love and she knows how he is, she is my one Rock in all of this. But I don't need to see his cousin or his brother and think about the horrible things he has said to them about me. 

[dacoming]

Whenever my husband starts that I pause and say " what did you just say?' And make him repeat it, because more often than not he denies saying it or ' I didn't mean anything by it, you took it the wrong way'. Then ask him not to speak to me like that.

I'm going to try this from now on.  My wife does the same thing all the time.  This past weekend was terrible!  Friday she was fussing at one of our daughters about doing something with her life.  I chime in some to back her up but I'm not a yeller and never curse at the kids as she does.  She got mad at me and blamed me for our daughters' situations.  They both are mid to late 20s and stay with us, no jobs.  She told me that all through the years, I only care about myself and my career but do not try to guide them, including her, to succeed.  I let her go on for a while until I couldn't take it anymore.  I reminded her that I was the person who went all of their PTAs, got them into medical assistant and cosmetology schools, constantly pushed them to do well and handle other responsibilities as well, such as cleaning, etc.  (All through the years, she overruled my punishments and constantly made me out to be the wicked stepfather.  When she told me I got pleasure out of disciplining them and constantly butted in when they complained I stepped back) She got mad and told me she didn't say it was my fault and I have a bad understanding and need help.  The next day, she expressed displeasure about our son's haircut once we returned from the barber.  I told her I saw nothing wrong with it; she flipped her lid and accused me of always trying to go against her thoughts and feelings, called me a coward (in front of the kids) and said I was scared to tell the barber the haircut was messed up because I'm scared to confront men, only her, called me a "slow azz n!$$&, insulted my intelligence, told our daughter that I started treating her like this because of her back problems... .likely because I "have a chance if I fight her now," etc etc.  She threatened to take our son and go back up to the barber shop and curse the barber out, since I'm a coward, and force me to have to defend her when they get mad.  I told her I was not going up there because I don't handle things that way, particularly with barbers who are so respectful to me.  I went outside to do the yard.  She never went but we were into it all weekend.  After all of the insults (more came as the night went on), she blamed me for not responding while she was insulting me (communicating with me as she called it) and said this was the last weekend she would spend alone.  I told her I was not going to respond to someone who constantly disrespects me and tears me down mentally.  She said that's not the proper way to handle the situation, just because she was saying things "I didn't like."  Point is, she often denies certain things she says, turning it around as something being wrong with my mind.  I'm sick of the constant jabs and insults being disguised as "having my back and trying to make me a better man."

[formflier]

If you don't think that is hurtful... .ask ANY of the guys here what they would expect to happen if they did that to their female partner with BPD! They wouldn't even DARE to think of doing it is my bet.

Umm... .the meltdown would be nuclear... .

While there are lots of bad parts to my r/s... .insults about physical things are not prevalent.

Lately she seems to be in denial about my disabilities... .but that is a bit different that saying you are fat.

Jabs are still punches... .they still hurt.

FF

[Hope26]

Hi Cloudy Days,  I think you said in your initial post that leaving was not an option for you right now, much as you'd like to.  Perhaps you are financially dependent on his income; I don't recall you mentioning children but of course that can always be an issue too.  Is there a way you can envision becoming independent of him in the future, and working toward that option?  I am just thinking that his excessively abusive behavior may be in part a result of him thinking that you need him and feeling that he has the power to make you miserable.  I'm thinking in particular of the comment that he 'doesn't see you as being together much longer' right after you've had sex.  Along with the demeaning comments about your appearance.  I've got to admit that the behaviors you've described are more than I could deal with, without formulating an escape plan.  But you've definitely got my sympathy and best wishes for a better future.

Hugs,

Hope26

[formflier]

  He didn't really get in any truly mean jabs until after we had sex. He said, I don't see us being together much longer. Out of left field, just threw it in after we had a good moment with each other.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=79300

While hurtful... I don't see what he did as surprising.  In what should have been a very intimate moment... .it was too much for him... .so he "strikes out" with a dysfunctional comment.

He probably wanted to say something nice... or loving... .and when that triggered up BPD behaviors... .you get the negativity out of him that he doesn't see that feeling coming back again.

Very tough dynamic to deal with... .

 

FF

[Grey Kitty]

That's why I am considering it a Jab... .I just blow things off easily, I've always been able to let little things go without a bat of a eye... .

You saw one comment about how a more sensitive person would react to that kind of statement.

I think the reason to stop accepting these little jabs is that you don't realize how much damage they are doing to you. It isn't that this one hurt very much--you were able to shrug it off and keep going. What I'm pretty sure happens is like thousands of drops of water which will eventually erode a rock and do some real damage.

Ultimately, your self-esteem and confidence is being eroded just a little bit every time this happens, and that is why you need to turn off the leaky faucet.

Meanwhile... .I'll wait for you to write up a specific example or two, and then try to help you find a way to cut it off quickly.

[Cloudy Days]

Last night wasn't sarcasm, it was just outright him calling me stupid several times. I can't even remember what he called me stupid for but does it really matter? It was uncalled for and I do remember he was just attacking to be attacking. I got up and went to the other room to do something.

This morning he was complaining about everything under the sun, then said something to the one dog he likes that she should be the only dog we own... .We have 5 dogs and they are our children, 2 of them we have had for 5 years the other three we have had since May. Two large puppies he insisted on getting, I told him several times puppies aren't easy to care for and large ones destroy a lot of things and the other small one is my doing, he hates her and I love her. He kept complaining about this and that, saying we should sell our house and move on. This is not uncommon he has been saying these kinds of things since the beginning of our relationship I think. I remember him breaking up with me 2 months in while we were at a party that included my family. Then 10 minutes later told me he was joking and just wanted to see how I would react. So him saying he is going to leave is nothing new in the 10 years we have been together.

The reason it isn't feasible to leave is that we just bought a house and neither of us can actually afford to pay for it on our own. We also have 5 dogs, I can't just pick up and leave them all. I could probably manage to live there myself, with very little money if my husband chose to leave, which he says he is going to at least once or twice a week but he never does. I think it's more along the lines of my husband has no where he can live so he just never will leave even though he may want to. I don't really know. I actually had a dream last night that I told him I wanted a divorce. I know that our entire relationship has never actually been love but more of infatuation with one another and addiction. I've had opportunities to leave him but have never been able to go through with it.

To be honest if he stopped drinking alcohol things wouldn't be so bad. He started drinking right after my Dad died, right after we moved to our new house. I would have never bought a house with him if he was drinking like this at the time. I have no problem with him smoking pot which is what he used to stop drinking but he is on parole and obviously can't do it. It is illegal in the state we live in. He's always got to have something to distract from himself. We had a conversation this morning, him saying he is miserable at home all day. He asked what I thought he did all day. I told him well obviously you do nothing but smoke, sleep and watch TV and wallow in misery all day because he does absolutely nothing. He's changed so much in the last couple of months. I truly have started to hate him.

[formflier]

The reason it isn't feasible to leave is that we just bought a house and neither of us can actually afford to pay for it on our own. 

Remember this for YOUR future financial plans. 

Keeping finances separate gives you the freedom to leave if needed.  Many times having the freedom to leave gives you the power to make choices needed to have a better r/s.

FF

[Cloudy Days]

My husband and money don't mix well, he basically spends it before we get it and I'm left being called a dumb B___ because I can't handle money because we are broke (big surprise). Doesn't make sense at all. My husband has taught me a lot about life, and mostly a lot about not trusting people including him. If I am ever to leave him, I have a whole new set of do's and don'ts that I wish I knew before I ever met him. The first would be, you don't need a man to be happy... .

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Grey Kitty]

So where are you now?

1. You feel somewhat financially trapped with him, and his poor money management.

I don't recall what the balance of income is between you and him, but if your income is 50% or more, you have the option of opening an individual account and putting your money in it, and not letting him spend it when it isn't there to be spent.

The trick is that you have joint obligations (like a mortgage, utilities, etc.) and making sure he pays a share of them is harder.

If you make 70~80% of the household income, it is easy, if likely to cause him to get angry at you--just put it in an account he doesn't have the ability to remove it from, and only pay for reasonable expenses and household expenses.

If he makes the majority of the household money, it is tougher, but you can do something.

2. He makes threats to leave, but they aren't serious. You know that. NOTE: If you say something about leaving, it is a completely different game, no matter how often he does it. We're talking about his emotional reaction to things. You're obviously thinking about how life would be without him... .and probably know better than sharing those thoughts with him.

3. He is jabbing at you, your dogs, etc., etc., etc.

He does it very often. He may only half-notice he does it. It appears to be a coping mechanism that works for him. If you want it to stop, take the reward away.

End the conversation and walk away when he does it. If you are eating, pick up your plate of food and go away. Don't bother saying much of anything about it, other than making clear that this isn't acceptable to you, and that you aren't going to explain why not. (Sometimes when my wife said something snippy to me, I just calmly said "f*** you" and left it at that. No shouting, not much emotion. Simply a clear acknowledgement of the feeling her last words left. This may not work for you, but it is one example. "I won't be spoken to that way." works also.)

He's been doing it for years, and isn't going to stop without some firm action on your part.

[formflier]

He's been doing it for years, and isn't going to stop without some firm action on your part.

And it will take a while... .but it will be worth it.

FF

[Cloudy Days]

I make about 65% of the money but so much of it goes to bills/mortgage, I have been trying to keep the credit cards paid off, he has his own card, I pay that too. He smokes that's at least $80-$120 a month and he drinks and that is probably $100 a month. This is where his money goes, The rest of it goes to buying food and taking care of the dogs and house upkeep. We do not make a lot of money. I have tried to save, but I end up taking it out to pay something or buy food or buy gas. It's endless, I am going to try harder at not allowing him to talk to me how he does. So much of the time the complaints aren't really directed at me so much as a vent, like this morning, I said I love you and I just left and went to work. I don't know whether I should Validate or just leave the room. I say F You quite often to my husband actually when he says some of the things he says. It's a struggle because we also have to pay for his therapy which is less than it used to be but to comply with Parole rules he has to go. Then there are things like the heater breaking, still working on getting that fixed but have to find money for it which takes out of my savings. If he just left and never came back I would not be helpless. But he's never going to leave like he says. I know they are comforting tactics, I don't understand why he uses them but that's what he uses. If I leave I have to take the dogs, because I am not going to trust them to his care, and where can you take that many dogs? Especially if you don't have money to board them. You can't rent with 5 dogs, even if I just took the 3 little ones or two of them, because I know he will fight for the one he likes. It's just a no win for me on leaving because I still have to pay for our home regardless of whether I am there or not. It makes me feel hopeless... .

[formflier]

  It's endless, I am going to try harder at not allowing him to talk to me how he does. 

Mindset and language matters... .look at your statement above.

compare with this...

"I'm going to try harder to no participate in the negative talk my husband says to me... "

Who has the power in each of those statements?

Which statement has a higher chance of success?

Do you guys have an agreed upon budget?  Written?

FF

[Cloudy Days]

Its written out but expenses vary from month to month, I try to put money away for myself in a separate account he has his own account he tries to put money away in but everything is just so expensive we never really have much to save. I've fought the battle of asking him not to smoke or drink, that's not going to stop, I've been trying for 10 years and I can't make him want to stop. We have only lived in this new place for 6 months so aren't really sure what all the expenses are considering cost to cool and heat the place so far. I can't seem to get ahead, something always comes up that takes that extra money.

[Grey Kitty]

First off, you aren't ready to leave just now... .but if you were... .if I recall correctly, he has horrible credit, and isn't even on the loan/deed for the house. So you don't have to find a place to rent with 5 dogs. You have to force him out, and should be in a legal position to do so if it came to that... .but that should be checked with both a lawyer and posting on the legal board here if you are thinking about it.  Meanwhile, I hope it doesn't come to that.

However... .when it comes to all those thousands of little "jabs" and other put downs... .you can do this. It does take dedication, and real effort to be consistent on it. And when you start, you will find you aren't quite as quick and consistent as you wish, but with practice, you will get better, and it won't take long to get consistent.

[Cloudy Days]

His name is on the Deed... .

So today he called me at work and started calling me a Moron because I wasn't understanding him. He apparently asked me a question that never made it to me in text. I told him not to call me names and he basically said that my boyfriend must be next to me and called me a whore and hung up on me. Anytime I stand up for myself and tell him not to call me names or not to speak to me the way he does he claims I have someone coaching me. This is not the first time and I'm sure it won't be the last.

I was actually having a good day until he started texting me, now I just want to cry. Not because of what he thinks of me, I could care less about that. I just don't want to have to deal with this madness... .I didn't get a chance to stand my ground and tell him I would hang up if he didn't stop as he hung up before I could do that. I sent a text to him saying "I do not want to be called a Moron, stuipid, idiot or any of the above. You can communicate with me without calling me names . I am your wife and I deserve that much."

[Grey Kitty]

Sorry it went that way.

However, you don't have to tell him WHY you are hanging up on him, and you ABSOLUTELY don't need him to agree with why you are hanging up on him.

At this point, as soon as the word moron appears on the phone, hang up without another word. He's been put on notice.

[formflier]

At this point, as soon as the word moron appears on the phone, hang up without another word. He's been put on notice.

Amen to that... .

Once I finally got onboard with doing things this way... much better.  Any attempt to explain things to her... .seemed to infuriate.

Sometimes it felt better to say things to her... .but I truly believe it was less effective.

Not too long ago... .she went on a rant.

I said  "FF wife, I'm a human being... .and I won't be talked to that way"  (really didn't think it through... just came out)

she says "Human being my a$$ ... ."  I didn't hear the rest as I was walking away... .

probably better if I had found something shorter to say...

FF

[unicorn2014]

Hi Cloudy Day 

I am sorry you are suffering like that. 

Have you ever heard of Al-Anon?

Do you see a therapist?

Do you see a psychiatrist?

It sounds like things are really tough with your husband right now. He sounds really mean.

What kind of things do you do for self care?

[Cloudy Days]

I've been to a therapist before and I didn't really feel comfortable enough going. I felt she just wanted me to take medication and that's not for me. I don't need medication, I need a normal husband. We also cannot afford much other than what my husband goes to. I read a lot of books and I scrapbook, it is my self care. Alone time really is my self care but I don't get much of it unless my husband is sleeping, which is the weekend basically.

Last night was pretty awful, he was starting crap even before I got home, I went and laid down in my room (I have a craft/dressing room). He came and apologized. He then started drinking, I didn't want to watch one of his stupid shows so he went off on me and I went to the other room and took a bath and just cried for entire time I was in there. I came back out and it wasn't any better so I just went to bed. I read his texts this morning to his family and they were pretty awful about me. Asked his cousin how to get ahold of an old girlfriend he had and then went on to say he needed to just find a prostitute. I didn't even make it to work before he started texting me hateful things. He didn't take his Valium yesterday which I think has something to do with how he is acting. He proclaims it makes him feel like crap but apparently coming off of it makes him unbearable. I just can't take this anymore. I don't feel physically threatened but emotionally I just can't take it anymore. He's never happy, he's never in a good mood, he's not helpful with anything. I'm working with someone who has given up. He hasn't been this extreme for a long time, it's making me wonder if he is Manic or something. I don't know what to think.

[Cloudy Days]

I think he has finally calmed down thankfully. He's blaming it on his hate for cold weather 

[Grey Kitty]

You should know by now that he will go up and down like this.

The question for you is how do you protect yourself from the dysregulation when it happens, keeping yourself more happy and sane until it is over... .however long he takes to get over it.

[unicorn2014]

Cloudy Days, have you heard of the term radical acceptance? I know you want a normal husband,  . I want things to be different in my relationship too.

 Also medication can help the non too. Many  non have ptsd from being in a relationship with a BPD . Medication can help ptsd.

I'm sorry things are so tough for you. 

[Cloudy Days]

He was more extreme this time than ususal. I hadn't seen this side of him since probably June of last year, not since he had been on medication. I limited my exposure to it, I went to bed way earlier than I usually do, he left me alone for the most part, at least I feel rested this morning. I don't see crying as a bad thing, I think releasing emotions is one of the best things you can do. It's much better than having anger about everything. I am not an angry person, I simply see the truth about things and try to accept it for what it is, the big picture in other words. I know he will have these ups and downs, he just hasn't been this extreme in a long time, it scares me as I thought those behaviors stopped. I still have PTSD from the past and things he did and I don't want to go back to that. I just don't want to be medicated, I don't feel it is for me. I do accept him, I thought we were past some of these behaviors. My comment about a normal husband I mainly just meant that if I had a normal husband I wouldn't need medication so why should I take them now.

[Grey Kitty]

My comment about a normal husband I mainly just meant that if I had a normal husband I wouldn't need medication so why should I take them now.

I'm not going to say whether you do or do not need medications, or even whether they would be effective. That is a difficult and complicated choice, and I don't have the information to help. However the other part of this hit me.

One of my dear friends has a saying for this subject:

My life got so much better when I stopped arguing with reality.

You can argue with reality all you want to. You only lose 100% of the time, but if you like those odds, keep on playing.

You don't have a normal husband. You have a husband who suffers mental illness. That is your reality. Yes, it sucks. Yes, you wish you had a husband who didn't suffer that way. That is natural and normal.

Making life choices based on the husband you wish you had instead of the one you actually have isn't healthy. You can do it all you want, but you will lose 100% of the time. Guaranteed.

FYI this wisdom comes from a woman who spent nearly the first 50 years of her life arguing with reality. And losing. Every !@#$!@@# time.

[formflier]

 

My .02cents. 

I was resistant to taking medication.  Lots of reasons. 

Many were valid.  I believe people should "exhaust" their options in talk therapy... .basically exhaust the non-medical options first... and then carefully start going through medication

I do know people that get prescribed two or three things at once... .no idea how you figure out which one worked.

In my case I was struggling with nightmares from PTSD... and some r/s issues.   That was affecting my sleep... .no sleep was bad for everything.

Prazosin is used to "knock down" the startle response and keep you asleep.  Works wonders.

I'm glad that I am "resistant" to taking drugs... .it forced me to go through my options... but when the option came to sleep or no sleep... I'm glad I took the drug.

Hope this helps.

FF

[Cloudy Days]

I am not having any trouble sleeping, actually that is like my peaceful moment I look forward to every night, I sleep very good. Unless my husband went to sleep first (he snores very loud). I have been resistant to meds because I don't feel that a normal person should need them. My husband is disordered, I am handling him the best that I can, I don't really understand why a medication would make it any easier. I've seen my husband turn into a zombie, I have seen his sexual desire turn into nothing, I have seen him have tremors, his hands go numb peeing the bed and even nightmares because of the drugs he was on. I am all about keeping that stuff out of my body. And if I feel that I am suicidal or a basket case or that I can't handle my job or anything of that nature then maybe I will consider it. But right now I feel like I am having normal reactions to abnormal behavior. I may have PTSD but it's mainly when he shows the specific behaviors that have caused the PTSD and I excuse myself from his presence when that happens. Whether it is slamming something too hard or just yelling too loud I don't stick around for it. I honestly just don't want that poison in my body.

[Grey Kitty]

Cloudy Days, I'm not trying to convince you to take any medications, and certainly not suggesting that the side effects are worth it for you to take the ones your husband has taken.

I don't think the idea that you are a normal person in an abnormal situation is very helpful... .unless you are planning to remove yourself from the abnormal situation.

You need to take care of yourself in the situation you are in, not the one you wish you were in.

I may have PTSD but it's mainly when he shows the specific behaviors that have caused the PTSD and I excuse myself from his presence when that happens. Whether it is slamming something too hard or just yelling too loud I don't stick around for it.

This is a great way to handle those situations.

Do whatever you can and whatever you need to to in order to take good care of yourself. 

[waverider]

 Medications can help those crisis times, but they can also become the too often go to safety blanket, to the point they block out the chaos around you, and the rest of life as well. many nons become addicted to valium, anti depressants and even alcohol to block out their reality as it hurts too much.

You are suffering emotional abuse. Currently you are "going to ground" in order to survive. It is near impossible to thrive while you are focused on survival. This leaves a feeling of hopelessness, being trapped and ultimately depression.

"Going to ground" has no consequences for your husband and in fact gives him clear space to soothe himself by going into victim mode without anything, or anyone, contradicting this.

I think it comes back to the often stated need for stronger boundaries, such as your safe zone not just crying in the bath, but away from it completely. While you can still hear, or even be aware, of the drama in the next room you can't let it go, you can't regroup. He is probably not even aware of you erecting a boundary, as he would if you had a "plan B place to be", so he sees no harm to him , and he always things of effects on him, or consequences. So it just repeats as a free shot next time.

Clearly your boundaries are not working for you as you are taking on emotional damage.

Acceptance of the fact iit is unlikely ever to be "normal' is important as it gets us away from "things will be ok if I just survive the current drama" mode. You need a bigger picture plan, which encompasses the reality, to lead you towards thriving.

Once your places of solitude become symbols have safety, they start to loose their reward status in your mind, as you are driven there rather than choose to go there out of personal recreation. They become your prison exercise yard rather than the great outdoors for you to have fun in.

Your world shrinks

The bottom line is getting back control of your life choices and not living by default. living by default you absorb unhealthy and live abnormal yourself without being aware of it. You loose perspective and have magical dreams about what you perceive normal should be. Normal has become alien, its on the other side of the fence, and its probably not what you think it is.

[unicorn2014]

My .02cents. 

I was resistant to taking medication.  Lots of reasons. 

Many were valid.  I believe people should "exhaust" their options in talk therapy... .basically exhaust the non-medical options first... and then carefully start going through medication

I do know people that get prescribed two or three things at once... .no idea how you figure out which one worked.

In my case I was struggling with nightmares from PTSD... and some r/s issues.   That was affecting my sleep... .no sleep was bad for everything.

Prazosin is used to "knock down" the startle response and keep you asleep.  Works wonders.

I'm glad that I am "resistant" to taking drugs... .it forced me to go through my options... but when the option came to sleep or no sleep... I'm glad I took the drug.

Hope this helps.

FF

Yes I too take two medications for ptsd, recently I started retaking a night time to help me sleep and help my symptoms at night as the sleep aids were not working. I know for myself with my ptsd that adding this second drug into mix has already proved to be helpful, I'm on day 2 of it and no dysregulations from my partner. I had stopped taking this drug before I met him so we will see if it makes a difference for me. All of the people in my life are difficult: parents, sibling, ex, partner, child; so for me taking medication is pretty helpful. In fact, I would say that since taking this medication, I'm beginning to see how negative my father is, and perhaps that is due to clarity of mind.

(Sorry for jumping on the original poster's thread!)

[unicorn2014]

I am not having any trouble sleeping, actually that is like my peaceful moment I look forward to every night, I sleep very good. Unless my husband went to sleep first (he snores very loud). I have been resistant to meds because I don't feel that a normal person should need them. My husband is disordered, I am handling him the best that I can, I don't really understand why a medication would make it any easier. I've seen my husband turn into a zombie, I have seen his sexual desire turn into nothing, I have seen him have tremors, his hands go numb peeing the bed and even nightmares because of the drugs he was on. I am all about keeping that stuff out of my body. And if I feel that I am suicidal or a basket case or that I can't handle my job or anything of that nature then maybe I will consider it. But right now I feel like I am having normal reactions to abnormal behavior. I may have PTSD but it's mainly when he shows the specific behaviors that have caused the PTSD and I excuse myself from his presence when that happens. Whether it is slamming something too hard or just yelling too loud I don't stick around for it. I honestly just don't want that poison in my body.

Cloudy Days, it is your choice to take drugs or not. It is interesting that your therapist recommended you take drugs. That is not usual, since therapists can not prescribe drugs only psychiatrists can.

I can tell you for myself having ptsd as a result of being the child of people with personality disorders as well as the wife of a person with a personality disorder that the decision to take drugs was one of the best things I ever did for myself.

I was not on medication in my first marriage, and my first husband had traits of ASPD and it was very difficult. I can only imagine what a difference medication would have made, but he is very anti-medication and very pro-marijuana, and that ultimately led to the demise of the marriage. The ironic thing is my father was the same way.

That is an individual choice and for me it took becoming a divorced parent to bring me to my knees and make me willing to go on medication. I could handle life to that point, and that was my breaking point.

[Mutt]

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