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Author Topic: How can I manage my anger about him being irresponsible about little things?  (Read 1011 times)
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« on: November 06, 2015, 08:55:53 AM »

I get up this morning and the refrigerator door wasn't fully shut so the temperature inside has warmed to an unsafe level. Then I go  to feed the outdoor cat and I notice the hot tub cover wasn't replaced after he used it and steam is rising in the air. Last night I turned off lights in the laundry room after he had left all the lights on.

He's financially responsible and he pays for the electric bill. The irony is that he worries about the environment while being a mindless over-consumer of the earth's resources.

He's not cheating or being abusive or gambling or looking at porn (at least not so it's a problem  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)).

But these irresponsible actions on a very small level add up and irritate the Hell out of me. Once I mentioned in our marriage counseling that it was like living with a teenager. He didn't let me forget that for several years. It was too true.

How do you cope and not get irritated by these insignificant things?
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« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2015, 09:26:44 AM »

It does sound irritating. VERY.

I cannot think of anything you can do to stop it from being irritating.

My suggestion is to not criticize yourself for having the feeling of being irritated or even downright angry over it. You are allowed to have those feelings.

(It doesn't sound like you are acting badly in response to those feelings. While you should allow yourself the feelings, you should choose actions that are consistent with your values instead of blindly reacting to those feelings.)
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« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2015, 12:06:10 PM »

Thanks, Grey Kitty. I appreciate you telling me that.

I really don't have much to complain about (compared to my first marriage to a pwBPD) and I feel very grateful for my life. I do miss the attraction I had for my husband at the beginning of our relationship and I'd like to feel that way again, although I know I'll never again be naive to the fact that he has a personality disorder.

This reminds me of a book I saw called "Porn for Women." It consisted of a series of photos of handsome men (with clothes) doing housework, preparing meals, vacuuming, washing dishes, etc.

After you've been married for a while, yes, that is exactly what turns women on. Men listen up!

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« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2015, 12:45:07 PM »

OK, now that I've written about these petty things, my husband today is doing some amazingly nice things. He just made a card for our stonemason and his wife, who today are fixing some of the many walls and walkways they built on our property in the last ten years. They will soon be moving out of state and my husband included a substantial sum of cash in the card for them.

Now he is asking what we all want to eat for lunch as he is going to town.

It's almost like I complain about little things, then he does something exceptionally nice. Very interesting... .
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« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2015, 12:50:04 PM »

Did you complain about little things to him? Even act grumpy and irritable to him?

Or did you just post here?

... .I'm wondering about the link between his annoying behavior and his nice behavior--are you involved in it?
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« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2015, 12:56:12 PM »

 

I almost wonder if any attempt to "manage" the anger is counter productive.

You feel it... .don't suppress it.  

However... .just because you feel it... .doesn't mean he is going to fix it.

When you mention these things to him... .is he apologetic?  

Maybe the bigger question... .and maybe this is part of "managing" feelings... .what do you do with the feeling?

FF

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« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2015, 01:11:32 PM »

Nope, I did not complain to him about anything (just here to the BPD family), nor did I act grumpy and irritable. I did leave the hot tub cover open so he could find it. Not sure if he did. Haven't checked yet. I've got an incredibly good poker face and I'm very easy going.

He's trained me not to even mention little issues. If I had said anything about the lights, hot tub, refrigerator, crumbs on the counter, etc., then he will start with the self-criticism: "I'm all bad" or the complaints about me: "All you do is criticize." So I've learned to never confront him about minor issues because it's not worth it.

I'm grateful to be able to post my complaints here and sometimes they feel so minor when compared with big ticket complaints.

And yes, GK, he likes to be noticed for his exceptionally nice behavior, but he includes me (has me sign the card). So really he's truly a nice guy with BPD.  

And FF, yes, that is the question. What does one do with the anger? I fully acknowledge that I feel it, but I don't need to express it to him because that's so counterproductive. If it were about something truly important, I would absolutely feel no hesitation at expressing it. And I don't expect him to "fix" his behavior. He does try. I'm no longer finding his wet clothes mildewing in the washing machine several days after he started laundry. So he is learning. It's just at such a glacial pace at times... .
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« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2015, 01:23:05 PM »

 

My .02 cents worth.

I think you need to find a way to address some of this without having to maintain a poker face.

To me... .the fridge is the biggest deal

I'm assuming there are just two of you in house... .do I have this right?

In other words... .it has to be him.

Note... .I've given up assigning responsibility to people for "doing things" in our house... 8 kids and 2 adults.

I now focus on training them to respond correctly.

See the fridge door open... .shut it.

See the water running... .turn it off.

Anyway... .how about taking it head on.

"Hi honey...   How would you like me to bring things up to you?  Mention the fridge food safety and all that.

Listen to his answer... .and do it.

FF
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« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2015, 02:30:40 PM »

FF, I think you are right--that I do need to address some of these issues. And yes, there are just the two of us. I can't tell you how many times he has phrased that something happened without his agency, as if inanimate objects can do things on their own--such as "crumbs got left on the counter" or "the refrigerator door got opened."

It's a delicate balance of trying to train him versus not shaming him, and he is so easily shamed after growing up with a narcissistic dad who was abusive and enjoyed humiliating him.

I have to tread very carefully with lecturing him about food safety or mildew in the washing machine. He will pull the intelligence card rather covertly--he has the Ivy League education and law degree while I'm just a state university grad; he hates being "talked down to" even when it's about something for which he has no knowledge or experience.

If I don't address some of these issues, I know I'm just going to bottle it up and it will culminate in me disliking him more, when my goal is to look for ways to like, appreciate and love him.

I like your suggestion of asking how he would like me to bring things up with him. I'll definitely use that. Thank you.
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« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2015, 03:35:51 PM »

I have this problem. The source I believe is motivation by impulse, need and instant gratification eg they can get up and get something no problem. But a low level of obligation and responsibility as motivators means that once the impulse/ need is met, there is no motivation to shut the door/ put the lid on/ turn things off/pick up the rubbish

The problem is not the individual issues as they are the consequences and it shows in everything.  Trying to draw lines on issues is like playing whack a mole, it will just show on other issues, so that when you think you are on top of a particular issue, and so move to something else the initial issue reappears. It never ends as the unbalanced motivators are still there.

The result of this is that your anger keeps popping up all over the place without any real focus. That in itself angers you, and even makes you look like an erratic nag, as you will appear over the top on some small issue. This makes you prime fall guy for the bully tag... your partner then goes into victim mode... You get even madder at their lack of accountability.

I dont have an answers to fix this, as it drives me nuts, but I have managed it better for me by picking a few things and being strict about them and letting the rest flow by. It doesn't fix the behavior, as that I believe will take a personality change that I can't change, but it gives my annoyance a focus which seems to prevent erratic escalation.

As FF says dont try to bottle it up, you have a right to feeling angry, the trick to it is not to allow it to bounce all over the place making things worse than they need to be. Thats how you get headlines such as "wife trashes husbands car because he left the lid off a jar"... guess who ends up in the nutty farm PD traits?
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« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2015, 03:58:13 PM »

I have this problem. The source I believe is motivation by impulse, need and instant gratification eg they can get up and get something no problem. But a low level of obligation and responsibility as motivators means that once the impulse/ need is met, there is no motivation to shut the door/ put the lid on/ turn things off/pick up the rubbish

The problem is not the individual issues as they are the consequences and it shows in everything.  Trying to draw lines on issues is like playing whack a mole, it will just show on other issues, so that when you think you are on top of a particular issue, and so move to something else the initial issue reappears. It never ends as the unbalanced motivators are still there.

The result of this is that your anger keeps popping up all over the place without any real focus. That in itself angers you, and even makes you look like an erratic nag, as you will appear over the top on some small issue. This makes you prime fall guy for the bully tag... your partner then goes into victim mode... You get even madder at their lack of accountability.

I dont have an answers to fix this, as it drives me nuts, but I have managed it better for me by picking a few things and being strict about them and letting the rest flow by. It doesn't fix the behavior, as that I believe will take a personality change that I can't change, but it gives my annoyance a focus which seems to prevent erratic escalation.

As FF says dont try to bottle it up, you have a right to feeling angry, the trick to it is not to allow it to bounce all over the place making things worse than they need to be. Thats how you get headlines such as "wife trashes husbands car because he left the lid off a jar"... guess who ends up in the nutty farm PD traits?

YES, YES AND YES!

Since my husband doesn't like to take responsibility for neglecting, abusing, overlooking, forgetting, disregarding and otherwise damaging things, I am working with his hypothesis that things themselves are responsible for their poor treatment.  Being cool (click to insert in post)

I showed him that the refrigerator door is not lining up properly (true) and that I've noticed it has mysteriously been somewhat ajar, so "we'll have to watch that."

By this afternoon, he still had not noticed that the hot tub was open, even though the sun was making reflective waves shine through the window and focus upon the wall and ceiling above his computer in his studio (where he had been sitting).

"What's that reflection?" I asked, pointing to the wall. Then he realized that the hot tub was open. He closed it, saying that the wind must have blown the cover up and that happens when it's not locked down. (No wind overnight. And he never locks the cover.)

Now I'm amused. I'm going to figure out more creative ways to communicate these things. Haven't figured out how the crumbs placed themselves on the cutting board. It's a no-blame way for him to notice and if he doesn't want to take responsibility for creating these situations, that's OK. I just want them remedied.
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« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2015, 04:43:02 PM »

Whack a mole indeed! I just went into the laundry room and he had left wet socks drying on the painted windowsill. Some months ago I had explained how leaving wet items on wood surfaces damages the wood. He apologized and I thought he'd remember.

Not like living with a teenager, more like a toddler.
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« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2015, 05:12:35 PM »

"What's that reflection?" I asked, pointing to the wall. Then he realized that the hot tub was open. He closed it, saying that the wind must have blown the cover up and that happens when it's not locked down. (No wind overnight. And he never locks the cover.)

Some months ago I had explained how leaving wet items on wood surfaces damages the wood. He apologized and I thought he'd remember.

It will help if you understand what the problem is, and target your solution to it.

Not the problem: He's stupid and doesn't realize that wet socks damage wood or that open hot tubs make for higher electric bills.

Not the solution: Explaining the thing he acts like he doesn't know. Ignorance was never the problem, and the explanation is just invalidating to him.

Problem #1: Wet socks on the windowsill

Solution #1: Put the wet socks in the sink, in the dryer, or someplace appropriate so the problem goes away, when you notice it.

Problem #2: Your H irresponsibly left the hot tub open, and you want him to take responsiblity.

Solution #2: Find a creative way to point it out with a minimum level of blame/invalidation (like commenting on the reflections)

The key would be to decide which problem bothers you--the little thing undone, or that your H isn't taking the responsibility to do it... .and pick a solution that fits the more important problem.

BTW, Solution #3: Figure out how to fix the fridge door so it doesn't stay ajar at all  Being cool (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #13 on: November 06, 2015, 05:24:10 PM »

GK, that's a good point to figure out what the problem is. I sure don't want to invalidate him any more than I accidentally do, and he's so sensitive to criticism, even where it doesn't exist.

My issue is that I don't want to continually pick up after him. The more I do that, the less responsible he gets. It galls me to let things f-ck up, but sometimes (with things I don't care about or things I can easily fix) I will do that. If he has to spend money due to his mistreatment of things, he's more likely to remember in the future.

Actually the fridge door's mis-alignment has nothing to do with whether it shuts well or not. That was a red herring so I had an opening to mention that he should pay attention to how well he shuts it. I'm the handy person in this household, so I know how things work and how to fix them and he doesn't have a clue. I don't know why the door got out of alignment, but maybe it was due to something he did late at night when he was binging on white wine.

And actually, he was dumb enough not to realize that wet socks damage wood. Thanks, Yale! Maybe they should teach a course in shop and home economics for every freshman.

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« Reply #14 on: November 06, 2015, 06:23:03 PM »

I used to have this type of cognitive impairment until my doctor diagnosed me with Adult ADD.  A daily dose of Strattera has totally cured this.  It is possible that his inattention could be due to something along these lines... .
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« Reply #15 on: November 06, 2015, 07:47:03 PM »

Would a direct request work?

Honey... .can you (fill in the blank)?

No blame... .just a question. 

Make sure no is safe for him to say.

FF
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« Reply #16 on: November 07, 2015, 03:01:53 AM »

I was just thinking maybe he has adhd.

I nearly went bonkers early in my marriage. My ex husband seemed to sail through life, leaving a trail of half filled coffee cups, bounced checks, and forgotton promises behind him. He was horribly thoughtless and appeared unconcerned about it until there was a really bad result. His response was wow, i am (... .him... .) doing "it" again.

One day i came across an article about adhd and said to him, haha this is so you. He was so stunned, he got tested, and sure enough, he had it.

Marriage went badly wrong in the end, but during the interim, i was able to have some understanding, and my capacity for his distraction became a lot greater.
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« Reply #17 on: November 07, 2015, 10:11:30 AM »

Palla and Daniell,

I think you might be right. Thanks for your insight. I had never considered ADD or ADHD for a variety of reasons, namely that he had a career as a lawyer (and how boring is that to have to read case law?) and that he did exceptionally well in school.

However, he seems to have a hard time focusing on one thing. The TV will be on, he will have a tablet in his hand and he will be listening to opera on the stereo. He might even have a book cracked open too. He'll repeatedly jump up to get a glass of water or wine. It seems like it's hard for him to relax.

If I try to explain something that requires him to create visual images in his mind, such as how to install a bag in the vacuum cleaner, he's totally lost and frustrated. It's almost as if he can't get his mind to slow down enough to follow my words to create the sequential steps in an internal visual representation.

FF,

I try not to ask him directly to do things because he gets this hangdog look and I feel as though I've asked him to build a pyramid in the garden. He will comply when I seldom ask. The hoops we nons have to jump through!

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« Reply #18 on: November 07, 2015, 10:38:34 AM »

FF,

I try not to ask him directly to do things because he gets this hangdog look and I feel as though I've asked him to build a pyramid in the garden. He will comply when I seldom ask. The hoops we nons have to jump through!

So... .let him have the hangdog look... .

Obviously... .if he is worked up... .best to leave him be.

But on a "normal" day... .simple... direct request... .  Let him do hangdog thing... you move on with life... .and a chore or two are accomplished.

At some point... .walk up to him... give him a hug... .touch... smack on rear... .something... .tell him you have 10 minutes... and if he needs help with something.

Yes... .we nons have lots of hoops to jump through... .

I wonder... .how many are hoops that we put there... .and how many are due to the pwBPD.

Thoughts?

FF
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« Reply #19 on: November 07, 2015, 06:57:12 PM »

But on a "normal" day... .simple... direct request... .  Let him do hangdog thing... you move on with life... .and a chore or two are accomplished.

At some point... .walk up to him... give him a hug... .touch... smack on rear... .something... .tell him you have 10 minutes... and if he needs help with something.

Yes... .we nons have lots of hoops to jump through... .

I wonder... .how many are hoops that we put there... .and how many are due to the pwBPD.

Thoughts?

FF

Yes, thank you FF. I realize that I've learned to treat pwBPD with "kid gloves"--is that an expression anyone even remembers nowadays?

They do "train" one to avoid "setting them off" but it's not like we're playing with nitroglycerine. They can get over it and it's a good thing that they learn to self-soothe.
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« Reply #20 on: November 07, 2015, 11:51:43 PM »

However, he seems to have a hard time focusing on one thing. The TV will be on, he will have a tablet in his hand and he will be listening to opera on the stereo. He might even have a book cracked open too. He'll repeatedly jump up to get a glass of water or wine. It seems like it's hard for him to relax.

If I try to explain something that requires him to create visual images in his mind, such as how to install a bag in the vacuum cleaner, he's totally lost and frustrated. It's almost as if he can't get his mind to slow down enough to follow my words to create the sequential steps in an internal visual representation.

He may just be a more kinesthetic learner.  Maybe he needs to be actively engaged in some way to understand what is being communicated. 

Learning Styles

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« Reply #21 on: November 09, 2015, 02:12:05 PM »

Sunflower,

Thanks for that link. Much in the kinesthetic learning style fits, but at the same time, he's always reading and he has a really good ability to retain information, way better than me.

He's a former lawyer who loves doing photography and appreciates art and sees such fine detail in the photographic images he manipulates. Yet, he will be completely oblivious to where he put his keys, even if they're right in front of him, and he doesn't notice that he's left the refrigerator door not completely closed. It's as if he only pays attention to the things that are important to him, that capture his interest.

I'm a kinesthetic learner to a large degree. If someone is showing me how to do something, or telling me how, it can go in one ear and out the other, unless I get my hands on the object and do it myself. Then I'll remember. However, I can make rather detailed visual images in my head and manipulate them, if someone is describing something. That's a skill I've learned as an adult and I forget that other people don't necessarily have that ability.
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« Reply #22 on: November 09, 2015, 08:22:08 PM »

I am also a kinesthetic learner. (I also have inattentive ADD) i do not do so well to have another explain stuff to me from their perspective.  However, depending on the topic... .similar to your hubby... .I can read my butt off and process the heck out of info that I seek out...   I can feel kinesthetic about reading and learning if it is me who was seeking and researching the info that I am interested in sorting out.

However, if someone wants to talk my ear off... .and volunteered a topic of their interest... .and I have not asked any questions... .I am not "engaged" or participating in the info... .yup... .it can fall right out of the other ear!  The key is... .am I engaged enough to desire and formulate questions?

I agree... .I find it frustrating when my partner does not appear to be interested in "hearing" important r/s issues.  *sigh*
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« Reply #23 on: November 10, 2015, 11:00:04 AM »

Sunflower, Thanks again for bringing up these different learning modes. I remember past conversations about construction projects with people who have very good visual representational skills, before I developed my own and before I understood as much about building terminology as I do now. It was like a Charlie Brown cartoon where the teacher was going on and on and all Charlie heard was "Blah, blah, blah, blah."

As amazingly intelligent as my husband is (he's in the top three of everyone I've known all my life)--it surprised me when he couldn't follow something so simple and I assumed he was being obstinate or uncooperative rather than it just was not clicking with him.
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“The Four Agreements  1. Be impeccable with your word.  2. Don’t take anything personally.  3. Don’t make assumptions.  4. Always do your best. ”     ― Miguel Ruiz, The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom
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« Reply #24 on: November 10, 2015, 06:01:02 PM »

From what I'm seeing, the issue isn't a matter of learning, but of priorities.  I'll be honest here, in my world, a few crumbs on the counter, the lid being left off whatever (so long as it's not a jar of poison my pets might get into or something that will draw bugs), wet socks on the sill, or whatever aren't even worth commenting upon imo, let alone worth worrying about or getting upset over.  My career, friends, marriage, and hobbies are my priorities in life, not having my house "just so".

Accordingly, I have to ask.  Is it the crumbs, or the socks, or whatever that are really upsetting to you?  Or is it what you believe that the crumbs, the socks, etc. reveal, as concerns him and the relationship as a whole?  Is it really about the crumbs, or is it the demonstration that that you and he simply value different things, and that this fact might actually be the source of your anger?
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Cat Familiar
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« Reply #25 on: November 10, 2015, 08:22:58 PM »

Accordingly, I have to ask.  Is it the crumbs, or the socks, or whatever that are really upsetting to you?  Or is it what you believe that the crumbs, the socks, etc. reveal, as concerns him and the relationship as a whole?  Is it really about the crumbs, or is it the demonstration that that you and he simply value different things, and that this fact might actually be the source of your anger?

That he leaves things in disarray or damages things seemingly due to laziness or inattentiveness is largely symbolic to me. He takes exquisite care of his books and were I to leave one of his books open, face down on a table, it would be a crime. Same for other things that matter to him. So it's not like he's a complete slob.

It's a feeling of being disrespected and treated like I was his mother, here to pick up after him and fix his messes. He's an adult and he himself has loudly complained when his adult niece was sharing a vacation condo with him and his sister and left the kitchen in disarray. He knows better.

The learning mode is a separate issue and pertains to a seeming inability to follow a train of thought. I assumed he was uncooperative, but I now believe it's merely difficult for him.

It's a challenge to live with a pwBPD. He's out of town for a week and I'm having my own stay-cation at home. I've been really tired lately, even though I've gotten plenty of sleep and I attribute that to the daily stress of dealing with him and his BPD. My issues with him are very minor, but they add up over time.

My first husband did the big BPD offenses: violence, infidelity, financial irresponsibility, so I know I'm complaining about very insignificant things.

I don't need my house to be "just so" but I also don't need additional projects to fix things he's f*cked up.
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“The Four Agreements  1. Be impeccable with your word.  2. Don’t take anything personally.  3. Don’t make assumptions.  4. Always do your best. ”     ― Miguel Ruiz, The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom
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« Reply #26 on: November 10, 2015, 09:47:29 PM »

It's a challenge to live with a pwBPD. He's out of town for a week and I'm having my own stay-cation at home. I've been really tired lately, even though I've gotten plenty of sleep and I attribute that to the daily stress of dealing with him and his BPD. My issues with him are very minor, but they add up over time.

My first husband did the big BPD offenses: violence, infidelity, financial irresponsibility, so I know I'm complaining about very insignificant things.

You are 100% correct that those things you listed are worse and harder to live with.

However, telling yourself that you should be OK with things "Just because he doesn't do X, Y, or Z" (like your first husband did is not appropriate, or kind to yourself.

Please give yourself a break and care for yourself when you have to put up with things.
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Cat Familiar
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« Reply #27 on: November 11, 2015, 12:16:28 AM »

You are 100% correct that those things you listed are worse and harder to live with.

However, telling yourself that you should be OK with things "Just because he doesn't do X, Y, or Z" (like your first husband did is not appropriate, or kind to yourself.

Please give yourself a break and care for yourself when you have to put up with things.

Thanks, Grey Kitty. I truly am exhausted after putting up with the BPD shenanigans. I hope I can feel more replenished before he returns on Saturday.
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“The Four Agreements  1. Be impeccable with your word.  2. Don’t take anything personally.  3. Don’t make assumptions.  4. Always do your best. ”     ― Miguel Ruiz, The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom
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« Reply #28 on: November 11, 2015, 07:05:41 AM »

Thanks, Grey Kitty. I truly am exhausted after putting up with the BPD shenanigans. I hope I can feel more replenished before he returns on Saturday.

 Hang in there. I hope so too.

However, it is OK if you are still feeling exhausted and pissy about your husband. They are your feelings, allow them to happen... .I know you have the wisdom and judgement not to take the pissy part out on him just 'cuz you are feeling it... .let the feelings come and go on their own schedule, not yours, or your husband's.
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« Reply #29 on: November 11, 2015, 09:51:26 AM »

 

I'm an "acts of service" love language guy... .so the stuff that Cat Familiar is dealing with... .would bug the crap out of me.

Granted... .I'm not a "neatnick"  (reference all the complaints my wife has about my housekeeping skills)... but I do have a certain order that I like things in.

I also like to cook, was a cook in my pre-navy days, so I can be a bit particular about food safety, cleanliness in kitchen... .etc etc. 

It's a door... .if you open it... .shut it.  It's a door that is supposed to be shut to keep the cold in... .that is the entire function of that machine... .to cool food.  No need to discuss learning styles, ADD any of that.  Just shut the door

Was I ranting?   

Cat Familiar,

My opinion is that on some things you should push your husband more on (kitchen stuff)... .and let him be the one that deals with feelings.  If he messes up the paint, hand him a brush and paint can... .or let him hire a painter. 

The key is to let him handle it.

There should also be some things that we put in the "grace" category.  We all have our personality quirks. 

My impression is that your list is a bit long to put all of that under "grace".

The title of the book is to Stop Walking on Eggshells... .I get the impression that you are "walking on eggshells" about some of these issues... and that brings up some bad feelings for you.

Thoughts?

FF
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