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Author Topic: How can I manage my anger about him being irresponsible about little things?  (Read 1012 times)
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« on: November 06, 2015, 08:55:53 AM »

I get up this morning and the refrigerator door wasn't fully shut so the temperature inside has warmed to an unsafe level. Then I go  to feed the outdoor cat and I notice the hot tub cover wasn't replaced after he used it and steam is rising in the air. Last night I turned off lights in the laundry room after he had left all the lights on.

He's financially responsible and he pays for the electric bill. The irony is that he worries about the environment while being a mindless over-consumer of the earth's resources.

He's not cheating or being abusive or gambling or looking at porn (at least not so it's a problem  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)).

But these irresponsible actions on a very small level add up and irritate the Hell out of me. Once I mentioned in our marriage counseling that it was like living with a teenager. He didn't let me forget that for several years. It was too true.

How do you cope and not get irritated by these insignificant things?
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« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2015, 09:26:44 AM »

It does sound irritating. VERY.

I cannot think of anything you can do to stop it from being irritating.

My suggestion is to not criticize yourself for having the feeling of being irritated or even downright angry over it. You are allowed to have those feelings.

(It doesn't sound like you are acting badly in response to those feelings. While you should allow yourself the feelings, you should choose actions that are consistent with your values instead of blindly reacting to those feelings.)
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« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2015, 12:06:10 PM »

Thanks, Grey Kitty. I appreciate you telling me that.

I really don't have much to complain about (compared to my first marriage to a pwBPD) and I feel very grateful for my life. I do miss the attraction I had for my husband at the beginning of our relationship and I'd like to feel that way again, although I know I'll never again be naive to the fact that he has a personality disorder.

This reminds me of a book I saw called "Porn for Women." It consisted of a series of photos of handsome men (with clothes) doing housework, preparing meals, vacuuming, washing dishes, etc.

After you've been married for a while, yes, that is exactly what turns women on. Men listen up!

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« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2015, 12:45:07 PM »

OK, now that I've written about these petty things, my husband today is doing some amazingly nice things. He just made a card for our stonemason and his wife, who today are fixing some of the many walls and walkways they built on our property in the last ten years. They will soon be moving out of state and my husband included a substantial sum of cash in the card for them.

Now he is asking what we all want to eat for lunch as he is going to town.

It's almost like I complain about little things, then he does something exceptionally nice. Very interesting... .
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« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2015, 12:50:04 PM »

Did you complain about little things to him? Even act grumpy and irritable to him?

Or did you just post here?

... .I'm wondering about the link between his annoying behavior and his nice behavior--are you involved in it?
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« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2015, 12:56:12 PM »

 

I almost wonder if any attempt to "manage" the anger is counter productive.

You feel it... .don't suppress it.  

However... .just because you feel it... .doesn't mean he is going to fix it.

When you mention these things to him... .is he apologetic?  

Maybe the bigger question... .and maybe this is part of "managing" feelings... .what do you do with the feeling?

FF

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« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2015, 01:11:32 PM »

Nope, I did not complain to him about anything (just here to the BPD family), nor did I act grumpy and irritable. I did leave the hot tub cover open so he could find it. Not sure if he did. Haven't checked yet. I've got an incredibly good poker face and I'm very easy going.

He's trained me not to even mention little issues. If I had said anything about the lights, hot tub, refrigerator, crumbs on the counter, etc., then he will start with the self-criticism: "I'm all bad" or the complaints about me: "All you do is criticize." So I've learned to never confront him about minor issues because it's not worth it.

I'm grateful to be able to post my complaints here and sometimes they feel so minor when compared with big ticket complaints.

And yes, GK, he likes to be noticed for his exceptionally nice behavior, but he includes me (has me sign the card). So really he's truly a nice guy with BPD.  

And FF, yes, that is the question. What does one do with the anger? I fully acknowledge that I feel it, but I don't need to express it to him because that's so counterproductive. If it were about something truly important, I would absolutely feel no hesitation at expressing it. And I don't expect him to "fix" his behavior. He does try. I'm no longer finding his wet clothes mildewing in the washing machine several days after he started laundry. So he is learning. It's just at such a glacial pace at times... .
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« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2015, 01:23:05 PM »

 

My .02 cents worth.

I think you need to find a way to address some of this without having to maintain a poker face.

To me... .the fridge is the biggest deal

I'm assuming there are just two of you in house... .do I have this right?

In other words... .it has to be him.

Note... .I've given up assigning responsibility to people for "doing things" in our house... 8 kids and 2 adults.

I now focus on training them to respond correctly.

See the fridge door open... .shut it.

See the water running... .turn it off.

Anyway... .how about taking it head on.

"Hi honey...   How would you like me to bring things up to you?  Mention the fridge food safety and all that.

Listen to his answer... .and do it.

FF
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« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2015, 02:30:40 PM »

FF, I think you are right--that I do need to address some of these issues. And yes, there are just the two of us. I can't tell you how many times he has phrased that something happened without his agency, as if inanimate objects can do things on their own--such as "crumbs got left on the counter" or "the refrigerator door got opened."

It's a delicate balance of trying to train him versus not shaming him, and he is so easily shamed after growing up with a narcissistic dad who was abusive and enjoyed humiliating him.

I have to tread very carefully with lecturing him about food safety or mildew in the washing machine. He will pull the intelligence card rather covertly--he has the Ivy League education and law degree while I'm just a state university grad; he hates being "talked down to" even when it's about something for which he has no knowledge or experience.

If I don't address some of these issues, I know I'm just going to bottle it up and it will culminate in me disliking him more, when my goal is to look for ways to like, appreciate and love him.

I like your suggestion of asking how he would like me to bring things up with him. I'll definitely use that. Thank you.
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« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2015, 03:35:51 PM »

I have this problem. The source I believe is motivation by impulse, need and instant gratification eg they can get up and get something no problem. But a low level of obligation and responsibility as motivators means that once the impulse/ need is met, there is no motivation to shut the door/ put the lid on/ turn things off/pick up the rubbish

The problem is not the individual issues as they are the consequences and it shows in everything.  Trying to draw lines on issues is like playing whack a mole, it will just show on other issues, so that when you think you are on top of a particular issue, and so move to something else the initial issue reappears. It never ends as the unbalanced motivators are still there.

The result of this is that your anger keeps popping up all over the place without any real focus. That in itself angers you, and even makes you look like an erratic nag, as you will appear over the top on some small issue. This makes you prime fall guy for the bully tag... your partner then goes into victim mode... You get even madder at their lack of accountability.

I dont have an answers to fix this, as it drives me nuts, but I have managed it better for me by picking a few things and being strict about them and letting the rest flow by. It doesn't fix the behavior, as that I believe will take a personality change that I can't change, but it gives my annoyance a focus which seems to prevent erratic escalation.

As FF says dont try to bottle it up, you have a right to feeling angry, the trick to it is not to allow it to bounce all over the place making things worse than they need to be. Thats how you get headlines such as "wife trashes husbands car because he left the lid off a jar"... guess who ends up in the nutty farm PD traits?
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« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2015, 03:58:13 PM »

I have this problem. The source I believe is motivation by impulse, need and instant gratification eg they can get up and get something no problem. But a low level of obligation and responsibility as motivators means that once the impulse/ need is met, there is no motivation to shut the door/ put the lid on/ turn things off/pick up the rubbish

The problem is not the individual issues as they are the consequences and it shows in everything.  Trying to draw lines on issues is like playing whack a mole, it will just show on other issues, so that when you think you are on top of a particular issue, and so move to something else the initial issue reappears. It never ends as the unbalanced motivators are still there.

The result of this is that your anger keeps popping up all over the place without any real focus. That in itself angers you, and even makes you look like an erratic nag, as you will appear over the top on some small issue. This makes you prime fall guy for the bully tag... your partner then goes into victim mode... You get even madder at their lack of accountability.

I dont have an answers to fix this, as it drives me nuts, but I have managed it better for me by picking a few things and being strict about them and letting the rest flow by. It doesn't fix the behavior, as that I believe will take a personality change that I can't change, but it gives my annoyance a focus which seems to prevent erratic escalation.

As FF says dont try to bottle it up, you have a right to feeling angry, the trick to it is not to allow it to bounce all over the place making things worse than they need to be. Thats how you get headlines such as "wife trashes husbands car because he left the lid off a jar"... guess who ends up in the nutty farm PD traits?

YES, YES AND YES!

Since my husband doesn't like to take responsibility for neglecting, abusing, overlooking, forgetting, disregarding and otherwise damaging things, I am working with his hypothesis that things themselves are responsible for their poor treatment.  Being cool (click to insert in post)

I showed him that the refrigerator door is not lining up properly (true) and that I've noticed it has mysteriously been somewhat ajar, so "we'll have to watch that."

By this afternoon, he still had not noticed that the hot tub was open, even though the sun was making reflective waves shine through the window and focus upon the wall and ceiling above his computer in his studio (where he had been sitting).

"What's that reflection?" I asked, pointing to the wall. Then he realized that the hot tub was open. He closed it, saying that the wind must have blown the cover up and that happens when it's not locked down. (No wind overnight. And he never locks the cover.)

Now I'm amused. I'm going to figure out more creative ways to communicate these things. Haven't figured out how the crumbs placed themselves on the cutting board. It's a no-blame way for him to notice and if he doesn't want to take responsibility for creating these situations, that's OK. I just want them remedied.
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« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2015, 04:43:02 PM »

Whack a mole indeed! I just went into the laundry room and he had left wet socks drying on the painted windowsill. Some months ago I had explained how leaving wet items on wood surfaces damages the wood. He apologized and I thought he'd remember.

Not like living with a teenager, more like a toddler.
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« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2015, 05:12:35 PM »

"What's that reflection?" I asked, pointing to the wall. Then he realized that the hot tub was open. He closed it, saying that the wind must have blown the cover up and that happens when it's not locked down. (No wind overnight. And he never locks the cover.)

Some months ago I had explained how leaving wet items on wood surfaces damages the wood. He apologized and I thought he'd remember.

It will help if you understand what the problem is, and target your solution to it.

Not the problem: He's stupid and doesn't realize that wet socks damage wood or that open hot tubs make for higher electric bills.

Not the solution: Explaining the thing he acts like he doesn't know. Ignorance was never the problem, and the explanation is just invalidating to him.

Problem #1: Wet socks on the windowsill

Solution #1: Put the wet socks in the sink, in the dryer, or someplace appropriate so the problem goes away, when you notice it.

Problem #2: Your H irresponsibly left the hot tub open, and you want him to take responsiblity.

Solution #2: Find a creative way to point it out with a minimum level of blame/invalidation (like commenting on the reflections)

The key would be to decide which problem bothers you--the little thing undone, or that your H isn't taking the responsibility to do it... .and pick a solution that fits the more important problem.

BTW, Solution #3: Figure out how to fix the fridge door so it doesn't stay ajar at all  Being cool (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #13 on: November 06, 2015, 05:24:10 PM »

GK, that's a good point to figure out what the problem is. I sure don't want to invalidate him any more than I accidentally do, and he's so sensitive to criticism, even where it doesn't exist.

My issue is that I don't want to continually pick up after him. The more I do that, the less responsible he gets. It galls me to let things f-ck up, but sometimes (with things I don't care about or things I can easily fix) I will do that. If he has to spend money due to his mistreatment of things, he's more likely to remember in the future.

Actually the fridge door's mis-alignment has nothing to do with whether it shuts well or not. That was a red herring so I had an opening to mention that he should pay attention to how well he shuts it. I'm the handy person in this household, so I know how things work and how to fix them and he doesn't have a clue. I don't know why the door got out of alignment, but maybe it was due to something he did late at night when he was binging on white wine.

And actually, he was dumb enough not to realize that wet socks damage wood. Thanks, Yale! Maybe they should teach a course in shop and home economics for every freshman.

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« Reply #14 on: November 06, 2015, 06:23:03 PM »

I used to have this type of cognitive impairment until my doctor diagnosed me with Adult ADD.  A daily dose of Strattera has totally cured this.  It is possible that his inattention could be due to something along these lines... .
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« Reply #15 on: November 06, 2015, 07:47:03 PM »

Would a direct request work?

Honey... .can you (fill in the blank)?

No blame... .just a question. 

Make sure no is safe for him to say.

FF
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« Reply #16 on: November 07, 2015, 03:01:53 AM »

I was just thinking maybe he has adhd.

I nearly went bonkers early in my marriage. My ex husband seemed to sail through life, leaving a trail of half filled coffee cups, bounced checks, and forgotton promises behind him. He was horribly thoughtless and appeared unconcerned about it until there was a really bad result. His response was wow, i am (... .him... .) doing "it" again.

One day i came across an article about adhd and said to him, haha this is so you. He was so stunned, he got tested, and sure enough, he had it.

Marriage went badly wrong in the end, but during the interim, i was able to have some understanding, and my capacity for his distraction became a lot greater.
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« Reply #17 on: November 07, 2015, 10:11:30 AM »

Palla and Daniell,

I think you might be right. Thanks for your insight. I had never considered ADD or ADHD for a variety of reasons, namely that he had a career as a lawyer (and how boring is that to have to read case law?) and that he did exceptionally well in school.

However, he seems to have a hard time focusing on one thing. The TV will be on, he will have a tablet in his hand and he will be listening to opera on the stereo. He might even have a book cracked open too. He'll repeatedly jump up to get a glass of water or wine. It seems like it's hard for him to relax.

If I try to explain something that requires him to create visual images in his mind, such as how to install a bag in the vacuum cleaner, he's totally lost and frustrated. It's almost as if he can't get his mind to slow down enough to follow my words to create the sequential steps in an internal visual representation.

FF,

I try not to ask him directly to do things because he gets this hangdog look and I feel as though I've asked him to build a pyramid in the garden. He will comply when I seldom ask. The hoops we nons have to jump through!

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« Reply #18 on: November 07, 2015, 10:38:34 AM »

FF,

I try not to ask him directly to do things because he gets this hangdog look and I feel as though I've asked him to build a pyramid in the garden. He will comply when I seldom ask. The hoops we nons have to jump through!

So... .let him have the hangdog look... .

Obviously... .if he is worked up... .best to leave him be.

But on a "normal" day... .simple... direct request... .  Let him do hangdog thing... you move on with life... .and a chore or two are accomplished.

At some point... .walk up to him... give him a hug... .touch... smack on rear... .something... .tell him you have 10 minutes... and if he needs help with something.

Yes... .we nons have lots of hoops to jump through... .

I wonder... .how many are hoops that we put there... .and how many are due to the pwBPD.

Thoughts?

FF
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« Reply #19 on: November 07, 2015, 06:57:12 PM »

But on a "normal" day... .simple... direct request... .  Let him do hangdog thing... you move on with life... .and a chore or two are accomplished.

At some point... .walk up to him... give him a hug... .touch... smack on rear... .something... .tell him you have 10 minutes... and if he needs help with something.

Yes... .we nons have lots of hoops to jump through... .

I wonder... .how many are hoops that we put there... .and how many are due to the pwBPD.

Thoughts?

FF

Yes, thank you FF. I realize that I've learned to treat pwBPD with "kid gloves"--is that an expression anyone even remembers nowadays?

They do "train" one to avoid "setting them off" but it's not like we're playing with nitroglycerine. They can get over it and it's a good thing that they learn to self-soothe.
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« Reply #20 on: November 07, 2015, 11:51:43 PM »

However, he seems to have a hard time focusing on one thing. The TV will be on, he will have a tablet in his hand and he will be listening to opera on the stereo. He might even have a book cracked open too. He'll repeatedly jump up to get a glass of water or wine. It seems like it's hard for him to relax.

If I try to explain something that requires him to create visual images in his mind, such as how to install a bag in the vacuum cleaner, he's totally lost and frustrated. It's almost as if he can't get his mind to slow down enough to follow my words to create the sequential steps in an internal visual representation.

He may just be a more kinesthetic learner.  Maybe he needs to be actively engaged in some way to understand what is being communicated. 

Learning Styles

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« Reply #21 on: November 09, 2015, 02:12:05 PM »

Sunflower,

Thanks for that link. Much in the kinesthetic learning style fits, but at the same time, he's always reading and he has a really good ability to retain information, way better than me.

He's a former lawyer who loves doing photography and appreciates art and sees such fine detail in the photographic images he manipulates. Yet, he will be completely oblivious to where he put his keys, even if they're right in front of him, and he doesn't notice that he's left the refrigerator door not completely closed. It's as if he only pays attention to the things that are important to him, that capture his interest.

I'm a kinesthetic learner to a large degree. If someone is showing me how to do something, or telling me how, it can go in one ear and out the other, unless I get my hands on the object and do it myself. Then I'll remember. However, I can make rather detailed visual images in my head and manipulate them, if someone is describing something. That's a skill I've learned as an adult and I forget that other people don't necessarily have that ability.
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« Reply #22 on: November 09, 2015, 08:22:08 PM »

I am also a kinesthetic learner. (I also have inattentive ADD) i do not do so well to have another explain stuff to me from their perspective.  However, depending on the topic... .similar to your hubby... .I can read my butt off and process the heck out of info that I seek out...   I can feel kinesthetic about reading and learning if it is me who was seeking and researching the info that I am interested in sorting out.

However, if someone wants to talk my ear off... .and volunteered a topic of their interest... .and I have not asked any questions... .I am not "engaged" or participating in the info... .yup... .it can fall right out of the other ear!  The key is... .am I engaged enough to desire and formulate questions?

I agree... .I find it frustrating when my partner does not appear to be interested in "hearing" important r/s issues.  *sigh*
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« Reply #23 on: November 10, 2015, 11:00:04 AM »

Sunflower, Thanks again for bringing up these different learning modes. I remember past conversations about construction projects with people who have very good visual representational skills, before I developed my own and before I understood as much about building terminology as I do now. It was like a Charlie Brown cartoon where the teacher was going on and on and all Charlie heard was "Blah, blah, blah, blah."

As amazingly intelligent as my husband is (he's in the top three of everyone I've known all my life)--it surprised me when he couldn't follow something so simple and I assumed he was being obstinate or uncooperative rather than it just was not clicking with him.
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« Reply #24 on: November 10, 2015, 06:01:02 PM »

From what I'm seeing, the issue isn't a matter of learning, but of priorities.  I'll be honest here, in my world, a few crumbs on the counter, the lid being left off whatever (so long as it's not a jar of poison my pets might get into or something that will draw bugs), wet socks on the sill, or whatever aren't even worth commenting upon imo, let alone worth worrying about or getting upset over.  My career, friends, marriage, and hobbies are my priorities in life, not having my house "just so".

Accordingly, I have to ask.  Is it the crumbs, or the socks, or whatever that are really upsetting to you?  Or is it what you believe that the crumbs, the socks, etc. reveal, as concerns him and the relationship as a whole?  Is it really about the crumbs, or is it the demonstration that that you and he simply value different things, and that this fact might actually be the source of your anger?
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« Reply #25 on: November 10, 2015, 08:22:58 PM »

Accordingly, I have to ask.  Is it the crumbs, or the socks, or whatever that are really upsetting to you?  Or is it what you believe that the crumbs, the socks, etc. reveal, as concerns him and the relationship as a whole?  Is it really about the crumbs, or is it the demonstration that that you and he simply value different things, and that this fact might actually be the source of your anger?

That he leaves things in disarray or damages things seemingly due to laziness or inattentiveness is largely symbolic to me. He takes exquisite care of his books and were I to leave one of his books open, face down on a table, it would be a crime. Same for other things that matter to him. So it's not like he's a complete slob.

It's a feeling of being disrespected and treated like I was his mother, here to pick up after him and fix his messes. He's an adult and he himself has loudly complained when his adult niece was sharing a vacation condo with him and his sister and left the kitchen in disarray. He knows better.

The learning mode is a separate issue and pertains to a seeming inability to follow a train of thought. I assumed he was uncooperative, but I now believe it's merely difficult for him.

It's a challenge to live with a pwBPD. He's out of town for a week and I'm having my own stay-cation at home. I've been really tired lately, even though I've gotten plenty of sleep and I attribute that to the daily stress of dealing with him and his BPD. My issues with him are very minor, but they add up over time.

My first husband did the big BPD offenses: violence, infidelity, financial irresponsibility, so I know I'm complaining about very insignificant things.

I don't need my house to be "just so" but I also don't need additional projects to fix things he's f*cked up.
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« Reply #26 on: November 10, 2015, 09:47:29 PM »

It's a challenge to live with a pwBPD. He's out of town for a week and I'm having my own stay-cation at home. I've been really tired lately, even though I've gotten plenty of sleep and I attribute that to the daily stress of dealing with him and his BPD. My issues with him are very minor, but they add up over time.

My first husband did the big BPD offenses: violence, infidelity, financial irresponsibility, so I know I'm complaining about very insignificant things.

You are 100% correct that those things you listed are worse and harder to live with.

However, telling yourself that you should be OK with things "Just because he doesn't do X, Y, or Z" (like your first husband did is not appropriate, or kind to yourself.

Please give yourself a break and care for yourself when you have to put up with things.
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« Reply #27 on: November 11, 2015, 12:16:28 AM »

You are 100% correct that those things you listed are worse and harder to live with.

However, telling yourself that you should be OK with things "Just because he doesn't do X, Y, or Z" (like your first husband did is not appropriate, or kind to yourself.

Please give yourself a break and care for yourself when you have to put up with things.

Thanks, Grey Kitty. I truly am exhausted after putting up with the BPD shenanigans. I hope I can feel more replenished before he returns on Saturday.
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« Reply #28 on: November 11, 2015, 07:05:41 AM »

Thanks, Grey Kitty. I truly am exhausted after putting up with the BPD shenanigans. I hope I can feel more replenished before he returns on Saturday.

 Hang in there. I hope so too.

However, it is OK if you are still feeling exhausted and pissy about your husband. They are your feelings, allow them to happen... .I know you have the wisdom and judgement not to take the pissy part out on him just 'cuz you are feeling it... .let the feelings come and go on their own schedule, not yours, or your husband's.
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« Reply #29 on: November 11, 2015, 09:51:26 AM »

 

I'm an "acts of service" love language guy... .so the stuff that Cat Familiar is dealing with... .would bug the crap out of me.

Granted... .I'm not a "neatnick"  (reference all the complaints my wife has about my housekeeping skills)... but I do have a certain order that I like things in.

I also like to cook, was a cook in my pre-navy days, so I can be a bit particular about food safety, cleanliness in kitchen... .etc etc. 

It's a door... .if you open it... .shut it.  It's a door that is supposed to be shut to keep the cold in... .that is the entire function of that machine... .to cool food.  No need to discuss learning styles, ADD any of that.  Just shut the door

Was I ranting?   

Cat Familiar,

My opinion is that on some things you should push your husband more on (kitchen stuff)... .and let him be the one that deals with feelings.  If he messes up the paint, hand him a brush and paint can... .or let him hire a painter. 

The key is to let him handle it.

There should also be some things that we put in the "grace" category.  We all have our personality quirks. 

My impression is that your list is a bit long to put all of that under "grace".

The title of the book is to Stop Walking on Eggshells... .I get the impression that you are "walking on eggshells" about some of these issues... and that brings up some bad feelings for you.

Thoughts?

FF
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« Reply #30 on: November 11, 2015, 11:28:43 AM »

Thank you, Grey Kitty and formflier. It's caught me by surprise to feel so low energy these last few days. Usually when he's out of town I'm really excited to do all sorts of projects because I don't have to make dinner or put up with his BPD crap. (I sound kinda harsh, but lately he's been much easier to be around. I attribute that to changing myself based upon what I've learned here and in counseling.)

That's a good suggestion, GK, to just allow myself to feel what I feel. I've got a tremendous amount of will power and energy (usually) so I typically just power through things. Something that occurs to me is that I'm still grieving the loss of a friend who died at a relatively young age a month ago.

He was a handyman and I met him over 15 years ago. When my ex-husband and I bought the property nearly 30 years ago, there was nothing here--no road, no well, no septic. We basically camped out for years in a little travel trailer without electricity and together we built a little building in the garden we called the teahouse.

After a few years I realized that, in addition to the DV, infidelity and financial mismanagement, that he was all talk and no action, I divorced him. Then I started a variety of building projects: a small house, a detached office, an addition to the barn that he and I had partially completed.

Other than dealing with contractors and doing a lot of work myself, I met P., the handyman and he and I did numerous building projects together: fences, interior finishes, electrical, plumbing, etc.

We became good friends and he was always there for me whenever I had a problem that I couldn't figure out on my own. My husband also grew very fond of him.

Formflier, thanks for the reminder about the love languages. Like you, I'm an "act of service" person and I would suspect that my husband is more of the verbal affirmation type, but I think I'll ask him to take the quiz. For me, words without action are empty and over time, just sound like BS.

With this in mind, I realize that I feel a deep loss with P.'s death. There was never anything inappropriate between us (he was a very devout Christian and we were worlds apart in lots of ways) but in some ways he filled a "husband-ish" role that my husband could never do. We had a meeting of the minds and an understanding of how fun and interesting it is to find solutions to practical problems.

FF, I've totally backed off saying anything that possibly could be interpreted by my husband as "critical" after his comments like: "All you do is criticize." I realize that is the black and white thinking of BPD, but it was an interesting exercise for me to really examine whether there was a grain of truth there.

So now, I feel like I have the emotional bank account where I could actually make some requests around the kitchen. I think I now understand ways to do that which would not be as invalidating as my previously upfront style.

I don't think I've been walking on eggshells so much as trying to be strategic and avoid conflicts. However, that too can be exhausting. I've recently had the experience where I see things starting to go bad and I can redirect the energy and fix it. It's much like when I ride my young mare and I see her ears start to flatten and her neck tense. I know if I don't intervene, she will try to bite my gelding that a friend is riding. So I do something to distract her and then she forgets about it.
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« Reply #31 on: November 11, 2015, 12:15:48 PM »

  Losing a good supporter and friend like that is hard, and it can really take it out of you. Especially if your life has a shortage of good supportive people in it.

Ain't it amazing what comes up when you let yourself just have moods and feelings?
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« Reply #32 on: November 11, 2015, 12:26:31 PM »

I don't think I've been walking on eggshells so much as trying to be strategic and avoid conflicts. However, that too can be exhausting. I've recently had the experience where I see things starting to go bad and I can redirect the energy and fix it. It's much like when I ride my young mare and I see her ears start to flatten and her neck tense. I know if I don't intervene, she will try to bite my gelding that a friend is riding. So I do something to distract her and then she forgets about it.

The tools here really start to pay off once they become a natural part of who you are and you don't feel like you are having to think too hard about using them. Its certainly less exhausting, and if they don't work you can just shrug and move on as you know you have done your best.

Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #33 on: November 11, 2015, 12:35:22 PM »

  "All you do is criticize." 

Instead of changing behavior to accommodate this... .maybe focus on validation... .perhaps even agree with a wink and a nod.

"Yes I do... .please wipe up those crumbs and shut the fridge door"  Give him swat on the rear and tell him that since he left the cover to the hot tub open... .you'll be getting naked and waiting on him in there... .

Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

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« Reply #34 on: November 11, 2015, 03:47:25 PM »

 Losing a good supporter and friend like that is hard, and it can really take it out of you. Especially if your life has a shortage of good supportive people in it.

Ain't it amazing what comes up when you let yourself just have moods and feelings?

Yes, it is amazing to let myself feel my feelings. All my life I've had pwBPD whose feelings trumped mine because they were so flamboyant. I've always felt like I was strong enough to get by and that I had to attend to them because they were so unstable (classic codependent stance). It's nice to give my feelings the attention they deserve and it's a lot easier with my husband out of town. I'll have to work on that when he returns. I deserve to have feelings too! 

Having the friendship I had with my handyman was like having a second dad, even though he wasn't much older than me. My bio dad was always trying to teach me about building and home repair, but as a young person, I wasn't at all interested, though I absorbed some knowledge through osmosis, I guess.

P. taught me how to think strategically and to figure out a variety of strategies rather than going with the first idea that popped into my head. It was a great example of that concept of "teaching a person to fish" rather than giving them fish.


waverider, I'm getting more creative with some of the tools, now that I know more about why they work. At first, just trying to use them felt a bit clunky and my husband has a sixth sense about when I'm trying to use a "technique" on him. Bit by bit, I'm starting to integrate some of this and it certainly helps with all my communications. I'm so glad to have found BPD family!


formflier, I love your sense of humor! And I have nothing to lose by agreeing with him that I'm critical because at times I am and that's just who I am. If it's not a trigger for me, calling me that completely loses its power. I'll think of ways I can play with that because I'm sure it will come up in the future. "You call me critical. I'd prefer discerning. That's why I'm with you."  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #35 on: November 11, 2015, 07:13:07 PM »

Yes, it is amazing to let myself feel my feelings. All my life I've had pwBPD whose feelings trumped mine because they were so flamboyant. I've always felt like I was strong enough to get by and that I had to attend to them because they were so unstable (classic codependent stance). It's nice to give my feelings the attention they deserve and it's a lot easier with my husband out of town. I'll have to work on that when he returns. I deserve to have feelings too! 

Yes. THIS.

There is this thing that happens to the non in a BPD relationship, where their feelings are so big and out of control that they kinda remove all the oxygen from the entire room. You are so focused on THEIR feelings that you never even notice yours. (Ask me how I know!)

And when you start to develop some boundaries, and it gets better managed... .eventually there is this amazing time when all of a sudden, out of nowhere, you have feelings. And it is weird 'cuz they are ALL OVER THE MAP in a lot of cases.

Or that one time where you have the emotional meltdown (probably not abusive or lashing out at your partner) and they are the one to support you as you are going through difficult feelings. I remember having that experience, and both me and my wife being amazed that there was room for me to have feelings like that.
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« Reply #36 on: November 12, 2015, 09:28:24 AM »

There is this thing that happens to the non in a BPD relationship, where their feelings are so big and out of control that they kinda remove all the oxygen from the entire room. You are so focused on THEIR feelings that you never even notice yours. (Ask me how I know!)

And when you start to develop some boundaries, and it gets better managed... .eventually there is this amazing time when all of a sudden, out of nowhere, you have feelings. And it is weird 'cuz they are ALL OVER THE MAP in a lot of cases.

It's interesting to observe some of these patterns now that I have better boundaries. Case in point: I'm getting roped into giving a deposition in a civil lawsuit about a construction issue. My husband, the former attorney, had received a phone call from the plaintiff's attorney as a courtesy call, even though the side asking for my deposition is the defendant's. He thought the deposition might be a fishing expedition, designed to implicate us, so he asked the plaintiff's attorney to represent me in the deposition.

At the time, I thought that was a little weird, but since he's an attorney, I trusted his opinion.

Until yesterday. I got a call from the attorney's secretary and I realized that it was most likely a fishing expedition on part of the plaintiff. I think if they don't prevail against the defendant that they may likely come after me, even though I have no involvement in the issue, other than paying for the delivery of an excavator to a job site where it was destroyed. (It was a favor for a neighbor who is a heavy equipment operator who did some work for us.)

Alarm bells went off in my head and I called my husband and told him "No f*Bullet: comment directed to __ (click to insert in post)#ing way am I going to have this guy represent me. He is merely seeking information to bolster his case. It's a complete conflict of interest."

I was so adamant that my husband thought I was mad at him. "No, I said, just determined not to tell this guy anything."

It was so peculiar because my husband talked about meeting with him when he returned home. I told him, "No, we're not going to tell him anything other than thanks, but no thanks. And in the meantime I'm going to look for a lawyer with a litigation background."

I couldn't believe it. What happened to my husband's legal mind? A few years of retirement and he's not thinking. I asked him what he told this lawyer when he talked with him earlier and I couldn't believe that he was deceived the way he was.  
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« Reply #37 on: November 12, 2015, 10:59:53 AM »

 

If you are doing them a favor... .a middle ground would be to have them submit the questions they would like to depose you on to you for review.

And you will consider it.

If it matters... .they will subpoena you.

Don't be afraid to make them work for it and much cheaper for you to get an attorney to review the written questions and your written answers... than to show up at a deposition.

Right now... I've got more lawyers hired for me than ever in my life... .sucks a$$ bigtime... . 

Very like a couple things I am litigating (plaintiff on) will go to court...

FF
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« Reply #38 on: November 12, 2015, 01:25:41 PM »

Thank you formflier, that is a great idea.  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

I've got a call into our homeowners insurance agency owner and will talk with her about possibly providing legal representation. My husband had called her a couple of weeks ago and then got irritated when she didn't return the call on the same day. She did leave a message shortly afterwards, saying that she was out of town, attending a week-long business seminar. I found out yesterday that he was unaware of that and never followed up.

He spoke about the situation with a law school buddy, but no one suggested a practical alternative solution like you have.

The most shocking part of all of this is that until yesterday, I trusted his legal instincts. Now I absolutely don't. He apologized for not paying more attention to this because he was too busy planning his week long vacation in New York City--a place that I refuse to go because I don't like crowds.

I'm really sorry you're involved in numerous legal situations. It really does suck and it's a tremendous money burner.
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« Reply #39 on: November 12, 2015, 02:12:37 PM »

It really does suck and it's a tremendous money burner.

I find that if you look for solutions to minimize billing... .they usually turn out to be practical.

Even better if it forces the other side to do more work!   Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

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« Reply #40 on: November 13, 2015, 06:53:29 PM »

Formflier, I want to thank you for your suggestion about contacting the attorney who wants to depose me.  (My husband didn't think I'd be able to get any info from them, but I did.) The lawyer didn't give me a list of questions he planned to ask, but he did give me an overview of the lawsuit, so I don't think there's any chance of his side trying to go after me. And if they do, we are covered by the same homeowner's insurance company as the defendant--so they're not going to sue themselves.

Now, the plaintiff's attorney is a different story. I found a litigation attorney and relayed the story to him and he thought my instincts were right--that the plaintiff is seeking additional people he could sue. I've been astonished at how dumb my husband was to disclose as much as he did. (I told this attorney that my husband "gave away the store" to the plaintiff's attorney.)

I'm going to have the litigator accompany me to the deposition, though my homeowner's insurance agency owner didn't think it was necessary. She said she's been in many depositions and is always advised to answer questions only with: YES, NO and for the ones you can't answer with either, I DO NOT RECALL.

Just like a pwBPD to inflate a situation, my husband has been stressing about this for weeks. The odd thing is that he never followed up when he asked the Defendent's attorney for a copy of the Complaint and the Response. Today I followed up and got both those things emailed to me as well as the email from the attorney describing the lawsuit. Then I found a litigator and explained the situation and forwarded all that stuff to him. He told me that since no documents were requested in the deposition that I don't have to bring receipts, cancelled checks or any of that stuff that the plaintiff's attorney had told my husband to find.

I was totally being set up by the plaintiff's attorney and my husband was so oblivious, he was helping. I'm still in shock about that. I'm a former reporter and it seems I've got better legal instincts than my husband, who practiced law for a couple of decades.
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