Circular Arguments: "I am your mate" | Topic 2

[unicorn2014]

This is a small example of something you can do about his "wanting" to blame you.

See what I'm getting at?

Chump.

Yes and I was able to communicate to him that without seeing irrefutable proof that he has initiated divorce that I am going to remain feeling angry and betrayed and that ultimately I would have to leave the relationship. I told him I understood how my feelings of anger and betrayal were causing me to act and I told him I believed that if he were be able to provide me with what I was asking for that that would heal that, but not until then.

I recognize that while I may not be acting abusive there is a part of me that wants to or enjoys hurting him back for hurting me.

I also recognize the only way this is going to stop is he addresses what caused the hurt in the first place.

I told him until he was able to do this our relationship would remain at a standstill.

I definitely feel better now that I've "cleared the air".

I think this is what FF was referring to about telling my pwBPD how I feel. I did and it does seem to have improved things.

I did tell my pwBPD why I was acting the way I do.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[unicorn2014]

I really feel like you are "almost there"... .and then it slips through your fingers (a little different way of saying what Chump seems to have noticed). 

Slow down... .focus... .solutions exist... .find the solution... .then face the next issue.

FF

FF, I was able to take your advice from the other day and communicate to my pwBPD how I feel. I was able to tell him while I am not abusing him I can see how I want to hurt him after he hurts me and thats not good. I was also able to tell him that the only thing that will heal that is seeing irrefutable evidence that he has initiated divorce. He asked me to promise him I would stop acting the way I'm acting and I told him I could not promise him anything, I could only have faith that seeing irrefutable evidence that he initiated divorce would help me heal and that until I see that nothing is going to change.

I feel better about my self now.

I was also able to tell my pwBPD that ultimately if I had to continue to contain these feelings of anger and betrayal that I would have to leave the relationship. I told him its been like this since I discovered his divorce was not filed with the court. He said "you're saying you're going to break up with me." I said "No, I said ultimately I will have to leave the relationship if this situation is not resolved as I can not contain these feelings indefinitely and they will not change until the situation is resolved."

I think that bought me some time.

If I, yes I, get triggered again, I will do my best to bring it to the board so I can back away.

Nothing has changed except I have told him the truth, and I understand myself better.

I hope this is an improvement.

[Grey Kitty]

Boundary enforcement gets pretty harsh at this level. You cannot control his actions, only yours, and that doesn't give you a lot of different options.

The boundary "I will not be in a relationship with somebody who is married (to somebody else)" is a tough one.

Are you willing to end your relationship over his marriage? It is tough. However if this is what fits your values, you may have to do it.

  I'm wishing you strength and clarity.

[I'm also wishing he will get a clue, but that is outside my control as much as it is outside yours]

[unicorn2014]

Boundary enforcement gets pretty harsh at this level. You cannot control his actions, only yours, and that doesn't give you a lot of different options.

The boundary "I will not be in a relationship with somebody who is married (to somebody else)" is a tough one.

Are you willing to end your relationship over his marriage? It is tough. However if this is what fits your values, you may have to do it.

Thanks Grey Kitty, I'm not at that point yet, but I appreciate knowing what my boundary is. I was able to communicate to my pwBPD that until I see irrefutable proof that he has initiated divorce I will remain feeling angry and betrayed. I also told him I could not sustain this level of hurt indefinitely and if the situation is not resolved I will end up having to leave the relationship.

He said he was calling some lawyers tomorrow. I pointed out to him that he said  he already initiated divorce so he should be able to show me proof of that. He said he's having a problem with his laptop.

I've told him how I felt, how its causing me to act, what needs to happen for me to stop feeling this way, and what the end result will be if he does not give me what I ask for.

To me there is a big difference between breaking up with someone and leaving the relationship. I don't want to leave the relationship but ultimately if I don't get what I want I will have to.

For now I feel at peace.

There is never a good time to leave a relationship, but while my daughter is dealing with the worst case of poison oak in her life is definitely not it.

[formflier]

I also recognize the only way this is going to stop is he addresses what caused the hurt in the first place.

OK... .official formflier advice.  Stop giving away your power.

It can also stop by choices that you make.  You can't force him to stop participating in this.  You can chose for you not to participate.

Do you see how you put the responsibility for "stopping this" on him? 

I agree it would be great if he changed his ways.  But after three years... .I think he is pretty set in his ways.

FF

[unicorn2014]

Formflier, I think I wasn't clear about what it was I was trying to stop. He accused me of being abusive. While I maintain that I was not being abusive, I do recognize that I appear to experience  satisfaction at hurting him back after he hurt me. What I was saying is that the only way I'm going to get out of this cycle is if he addresses what caused the hurt in the first place, or I leave the relationship. Those are my two choices. I will remain feeling angry and betrayed until he can show me irrefutably that he has initiated divorce. I was able to state that to him in plain English. He wants things to go back to the way they were. I said the only way they are going to do that is if you show me irrefutably that you have initiated divorce. Things have not been good since September when I discovered his divorce had not been filed. Things will not be good until something changes.

[formflier]

FF, I was able to take your advice from the other day and communicate to my pwBPD how I feel. I was able to tell him while I am not abusing him I can see how I want to hurt him after he hurts me and thats not good.

I'd be very curious to see what I advised and see where the disconnect is.  When communicating feelings to a pwBPD less is more.  Keep message short and focused.

I do not advise further communication like what you just described above.

My advice.

1.  :)ramatically decrease (2/3rds cut) the amount of communication between you guys.  Both in length of communication and number of times per day.  

2.  Stop talking to him (nagging) about the divorce.

3.  Take half of the time you "get back" from not talking to him and focus that energy on your daughter.  Take the other half and focus on self care of you.


Let those changes take hold for a couple of weeks and we'll see how YOU feel about things and then make adjustments to the top three priorities.

FF

[formflier]

Things will not be good until something changes.

100% agreement here.

He can change.  How likely is that?

You can change.  How likely is that?

Now... .the key of what we teach here is that if the non makes a change to the relationship dynamic the pwBPD will have to change tactics (behavior).  Initially the tactics may seem worse as pwBPD try to get you back to what they are used to, but they will eventually drop this once they see the old ways don't work.

This is why consistency is critical.  This is why it is important to stay focused in the threads here, so you can identify a behavior you can change and you actually make that change and see the relationship dynamic shift.


FF

[unicorn2014]

Formflier again I think we are misunderstanding each other.

He initiates most of the communication during the day, not me.

He gets the ball rolling in the morning with texts and a message before I even wake up.

He's 3 hours ahead of me.

I initiate FaceTime with him at the end of the day while I'm cooking dinner and when my daughter is home.

I really wish I could do a better job of communicating my reality to the board. Often it seems like I'm being held responsible for the pwBPD behavior.

It seems like I'm neglecting myself and my daughter but I'm not. That's what's so frustrating about online communication. It really does a disservice to my reality.

What you're hearing from me is tiredness around single parenting issues.

I'm going to try to do a better job to keep my feelings separate for this board.

[formflier]

Formflier again I think we are misunderstanding each other.

He initiates most of the communication during the day, not me.

I adjusted my advice a little bit.  Let him text and call all he wants.  You have the power to answer... .or not.  He is not involved in that decision.



1.  Dramatically decrease (2/3rds cut) the amount of communication you accept from him.  Both in length of communication and number of times per day. 

2.  Stop talking to him (nagging) about the divorce.

3.  Take half of the time you "get back" from not talking to him and focus that energy on your daughter.  Take the other half and focus on self care of you.

[formflier]

What you're hearing from me is tiredness around single parenting issues.

Yes... .that is and has been very obvious that you are tired and need more energy on the parenting side.

The proposed solution (proposed by me and by others) is to take from where the energy is going (and in my opinion you are not getting much return for it) and put it where you seem to be getting enjoyment and fulfillment (your daughter).

You can only do so much... .as you only have a certain amount of energy and time. 

It's very obvious you love and care for your daughter.      It's obvious that you enjoy doing things with and for her.  That seems to be a highlight of your life.  Putting energy "over there" towards you daughter will have numerous benefits for both of you.

FF

[Grey Kitty]

He accused me of being abusive. While I maintain that I was not being abusive, I do recognize that I appear to experience  satisfaction at hurting him back after he hurt me.

Being angry, even being violent is not the exactly the same thing as being abusive. Abusive behavior is a way of controlling another person, and it is the control that makes it abusive, NOT the violence. In many cases, abusers do not need to use violence to achieve the results, or don't need it most of the time, because the threat is always there.

I don't believe you are being abusive. At least I haven't heard anything you described that sounded that way.

I believe your finance is being abusive to you. I suspect that his claim you are abusive is part of his abuse. If so, you should just disengage from it.

It isn't likely the case... .but even if you are being abusive, disengaging is the best thing to do, instead of continuing to abuse him.

Whatever the actual situation, disengage when he accuses you of abusing him.



You are tired out being a single parent.

You do and your daughter do daily facetime with him. (I'm figuring this helps the parenting load for you)

You deal with his drama and being pissed that he's not moving his divorce forward. (This drains you)

Is the net result of your time in contact with him serving you well?

Are you enjoying facetime, texts, and other contacts with him equally?

[unicorn2014]

FF, why is less more when communicating feelings to a pwBPD?

[unicorn2014]

Grey kitty, my daughter doesn't always Facetime him. I FaceTime him when I'm in the kitchen cooking and he reads to me and then we watch the x files together. He helps her with her homework when she needs it.

/

I am not abusive to my partner. I do know sometimes that what I say gets to him. I do hang up on him when he calls me abusive.

[RedPixie]

Hello,

Why do you keep closing and opening new threads?

I don't understand.  Why not leave all the usefull guidance for someone to find in one place.

Like this it seems to be going round in circles.

(I am new here so I'm not in the know)

X

[formflier]

Hello,

Why do you keep closing and opening new threads?

I don't understand.  Why not leave all the usefull guidance for someone to find in one place.

Like this it seems to be going round in circles.

(I am new here so I'm not in the know)

RedPixie,

That is a great question.  It has to do with software.  When you have 6 pages you have an "ALL" button that you can use to load all of the comments at once.  If you go to 7 pages (or more) then you don't have an "all" button.

"All" lets you load all 6 pages at once for scrolling and reading.

Staff members are in charge of closing threads and breaking threads up into pieces that are relevant and useful.

FF

[formflier]

FF, why is less more when communicating feelings to a pwBPD?

Because there is a lot going on in their heads and it is very easy for them to twist information and "miss" the real message.  This is not intentional.

They could get offended by an offhand remark and miss the last couple sentences of what you are saying.  See lesson below.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=79702.0


There is also some fear of intimacy involved.  In a longer message about feelings... .if something early on gets really intimate with them they very well may start pushing the rest of the message away and not listen.  If you limit you message to one issue and keep it short.  They hear it... .and even though they are pushing back... they hear it.


https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=79300





If you feel that you need to talk more.  Perhaps the SET format or dearman would work.  If they are "a little" worked up.  SET could be critical because the SE part may soothe them enough to hear your T.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=69272.0


Last:  If they are on their way to a dysreg... or they are dysregulated.  Skip trying to communicate anything important.

disengage... .let them soothe themselves.  Then try again.

FF

[Grey Kitty]

Grey kitty, my daughter doesn't always Facetime him. I FaceTime him when I'm in the kitchen cooking and he reads to me and then we watch the x files together. He helps her with her homework when she needs it.

That is a bit clearer. I do have a question for you that got lost in the shuffle.

For this question, please back away a little bit from the issue of his divorce, as any discussions of that are sucky and unpleasant, and I think that issue has been nearly beaten to death anyhow.

You currently have a LDR with him. You've mentioned messaging him throughout the day and FaceTime while you are cooking in the kitchen. Before the divorce issue got to where it was today, he came to stay with you fairly regularly as well.

Do you enjoy spending time with him more in some formats than others (text, facetime, in person, etc.)?

Do some seem more prone to fights or misunderstandings?

Do you find yourself wanting to spend more time with him?

Do you find yourself dreading it when you see  his texts, or know it is time to call?

[unicorn2014]

Red pixie, moderators opened a new thread because they close them at 6. Please read the posting guidelines .

[unicorn2014]

Formflier, my fiancé is not afraid of intimacy . He proposed to me before we met. He got physically intimate on the first date.

[Mutt]

The thread has reached it's post limit and is now locked. The topic of discussion has been split and can be found here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=285724.0