The email I just received. I'm in shock.

[Butterfly12]

Dear J*****,

This subject is a sensitive one, with a lot that needs to be said, so this letter will likely be long. I want to remind you that it is not my intent to upset you in any way, should that happen. Some things may be hard to read, I don’t know, but it’s how I feel, and I can only hope you will listen. With any luck, things will get better as a result of this letter.

I have been very patient with you on the subject of my beginning to have S**** overnights, and getting a mediation contract for what I think is fair. I had hoped that it would be the most peaceful way to help heal our entire predicament. S**** is now two years old, and for a variety of reasons, I can no longer walk on glass around you. It’s no way to live one’s life, tiptoeing around. I will be writing with that old wisdom in mind, “gentle but firm”. I do thank you for finally seeing that it’s time S**** began staying nights with me.

Trust… You say you’d like to rebuild trust, to fix what was broken. There are several subjects that need close looking at for me to trust you, but this subject is the most important. Here’s what it comes down to… What I need in order to begin trusting you, first and foremost, is an official mediation contract about our girls, one that represents equal custody and residency (including a progression schedule for S****’s overnights with me). And yes, one that holds up in a divorce court should we end up getting divorced. Anything less than this action in full will prevent trust from being reestablished, and we will certainly end up in court. To avoid any misunderstanding with words, I also mean equal amounts of time in a week with the children.

You may receive this as an ultimatum, but Joe (Marriage counselor) was correct in telling you that I simply have no other recourse. Were our current mediation of the children already fair, there would be no ultimatum. Divorce court is the only legal process available to me (if mediation fails) in securing my rights as a father. This technicality of the system is not my fault.

The truth may hurt, but it is what it is. I cannot be in love with (or remain married to) someone who tries to limit and control when I have our children, and who self-proclaims to be the sole authority over them, including what is good for them and deciding on their own when they are ready for a transition. Even how you worded things in your email about S**** is telling of your inner position on the matter… “I would like very much to give you the opportunity to try it out and have our daughter S**** for the night.” If you do not understand what I mean here, I hope you will let your counselor read this letter, and maybe that person can help you understand. Or, simply turn the tide in your thoughts, you may see it then.

Recently you began mentioning some things about yourself, and of course I am very glad you are beginning to talk about it. I’m genuinely grateful you have shared a little with me of what you have learned about yourself. These things are not my business I know, but they directly impact my life as a father and husband. My concern for now is about the girls however. Another sentence in your letter illustrates how I think you have exerted control over the children: “…and in the hesitation I have felt in ok-ing this transition is both because I am concerned for her and her readiness, but also because I so absolutely do not want this to continue down what I perceive to be the avenue of continued separation and/or divorce”. The later is what people refer to as using the kids against the spouse in a conflict with the intent of causing emotional hurt and exerting control. It comes across as manipulation as well. When angry at me, you have actually threatened more than once to not show up for a swap.

Any good parent is concerned for their child’s readiness for a transition, no matter the age, but excluding the other parent’s thoughts and feelings is another subject all together. You have never once asked me what I think or feel about any of this. Each and every time I have tried to express a thought or feeling about it, you shut me down, interrupt, and basically tell me how I am wrong, when I just see someone who is not even willing to listen, and still grapples with emotional reactions. There is a time and a place in Joe’s office to discuss our concerns about each other, about each other's parenting, but none of these things should serve to uphold an unequal mediation in both of us seeing our children fairly during this hard time.

Currently, you have P**** 108/168 hours a week, and S**** 136/168 hours a week. I have P***** 60/168 hours a week, and S**** 32/168 hours a week. You have P***** 64.29% of the time, and I have her 35.71%. You have S**** 80.95% of the time, I have her 19.05% of the time. This is no where near equal.

About your request to end my midweek time with the girls, I am open to this if, and only if, a completely equal schedule in time has replaced it for the above mentioned reasons. I will in no way agree to back pedal on how much time I have with the kids. An equally divided schedule could negate a midweek visit. Also, we should probably check in with a professional to see what is best for the children, for their ages as well. It is always hard on the kids, and myself, when too many days have passed without seeing each other. I do not believe or feel you are aware of this. We can disagree all we want, but either way, everything leads to the necessitation of fairness, of equality.

About the location of our “swaps”, I have spoken to several professionals, including Jane Doe, and have read a great deal from online sources, that meeting in a public/neutral place is far far better for the children when there is tension between the parents. I encourage you to read online, or talk with a professional about this subject, because it makes a lot of sense. It has always made sense to me for our predicament to meet in public at a neutral location. As much as you have disliked this, I know I have done the right thing for our girls by insisting upon it, as there is considerable tension between us. I feel like you have blamed me for this tension for two years, in spite of your continued anger and volatility. I own my half of the tension, and I believe it’s time you own your half. I agree that in some ways it would be easier to meet at our homes due to the weather and number of times in and out of carseats, but in my opinion those are small matters compared to what the underlying tension between us can do to our children, and the anxiety/fear I have lived with concerning your anger and volatility. I assure you however, that when there is no tension between us, when there is once again a feeling of trust, easiness, and peace between us, I will agree to meet at our homes. I have not minded that once in a while we have met at our homes for occasional logistics, but think that our public/neutral location is very important for the children and myself until things progress in a genuine way.

I realize this may be a scary move for you, an equal mediation, legally bound, but if you were in my shoes, I think you would better understand. I must do what I need to do. I would never try to enforce an unfair, unbalanced visitation schedule on you. This is about everything, being a loving, dedicated, involved father, trying to protect my rights with my children, but it’s also about integrity. It’s about decisions of the heart in this short lifetime. If you find that you can agree to this action, you will find that I will feel much much better about moving closer with you in matters of trust and respect. It will show me you have integrity in the subject at hand. It’s just impossible to move forward, for me, in the absence of this mediation action. As Joe put forth from the very beginning, he wanted mediation over money and the children completed so we could focus on our relations. This is the cleanest way to approach it, in my opinion. It’s your call. Will I run to a divorce court knowing I got what I wanted? No. I am dedicated to this process of healing, and I am open to things working out for us. It’s still a long row to hoe, with very deep wounds, but miracles do happen in this tough world. If you do agree to this new mediation, it’s true that it will not guarantee our marriage will survive, but the lack of this action will guarantee its end. I feel cornered J****, if you can imagine. If you feel cornered too, isn’t it sad we both might? The whole thing is heartbreaking and not without risk, so I am asking you to please consider everything I’m saying here, because the ball is in your court.

To be clear, my intentions are, if you agree to this action, that we write it together, team work, with Joe’s assistance. We can hire a child psychologist if we need to, as S***** will need to be on a progression schedule, but my point is that we work it up as co-parents, learning to trust each other at the very heart of it. I believe that Joe will be quite happy if we can get this accomplished

There’s a lot to absorb here, so of course take your time, and I’ll see you Wednesday morning in Joe’s office.

F*****

Modify message

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[formflier]

 

Butterfly12,

Please read my response a couple times before responding or reacting.

I started this response before I scanned your old posts.

My first thought was this is an incredibly good email... he seems centered, reasonable and wanting to be involved in his kids lives.  I'm thinking... .     Who can argue with fairness... .equality... .etc etc.

That nagging part of me says FF... .she is shocked for a reason... .she is shocked at a centered email for a reason.  So... .I go look at old posts you made... .and now I remember the story.

DV.  Avoidance of responsibility.   Not good.

Now... .after reading this... I want to reach through the computer and give you a huge hug.   

Now... on to reality.  Please go to the meeting.   Please show up with questions... .be prepared to listen and understand.

What you hear may very likely be infuriating... .please try to be rested so you can understand what he is saying... .and not react to it.

He will likely do most of the talking.  That is fine.

With pwBPD... .remember... .less is more.

He wants something from you... that's great... .give him respect... understanding.  Active listening... .keep going over what he wants until he agrees that you have it correct.  You may have to be very patient with him... .

Then it will be your turn.

I suggest having your "want" be one to two sentences long.  Short and to the point.

He owns the DV first... .and you agree to everything.

The key will be for you to clearly define what "owning" it means.  This needs to be crystal clear... .but short and to the point.

I would not threaten anything if he doesn't own it.  Just show him that the pathway to what he wants is to walk the pathway of redemption for DV.

He has a choice to walk that path... .or a choice to stray from it. 

Make it clear that you will be watching his actions

 

I hope this helps... .  No mother should ever been in your position.  But... .you are where you are.  And it is likely that you have some hard stances to take.   Please let us support you in that.

FF

[Butterfly12]

Thank you so much for taking the time to respond and read and understand.

I have truly been at a loss. I really really appreciate your insight and your advice. Thank you.

[formflier]

Thank you so much for taking the time to respond and read and understand.

I have truly been at a loss. I really really appreciate your insight and your advice. Thank you.

So... confirm the meeting is tomorrow... .right?

FF

[Butterfly12]

It is. ANXIETY.

And home today with sick kids. Trying to think up how to word my "questions."

[formflier]

It is. ANXIETY.

And home today with sick kids. Trying to think up how to word my "questions."

Write it out here... we'll help.

Note:  It's safe to "just say it" here... .we can help you translate it into something you can take to the meeting.

Tell me about the anxiety... .are you worried he will reject your offer... .or that he will accept it?

Who is Joe?  Is he the counselor... .or the mediator?  Is the meeting at Joe's office?  Basically... .tell me about the situation you are going to tomorrow to have the meeting.

FF

[formflier]

 

Also... .tell me about you and how you perform in important meetings.  High stakes stuff. 

Is this something you have had much experience with?

FF

[Butterfly12]

the "meeting" is really our biweekly marriage counseling session. In my husband's mind, it is obviously something more then that. Generally speaking, for the past couple months I have been really calm in these sessions. About two months ago I lost it. I got so angry after he repeatedly verbally sucker punched me and I told him where to stick it. Most of the time I am able to be calm, clear, and collected. However, he calls me volatile, angry, and abusive- solely because of the few times I have lost my cool and actually gotten angry.

Joe is our marriage counselor. He is wonderful.

The things I feel I need to communicate is that I am completely unwilling to trust him until he exhibits honesty. Also, the day he was arrested he raged and screamed at me "I'm going to take these children away from you. You are crazy. You are an unfit mother." All while trashing the house and screaming. He now denies he said any of those things. That day I sat in shock, holding my babies. I don't really understand how to communicate I need to have him own and accept he did these things (and it wasn't me) and I can not-as a mother- let down my inhibitions and hand over my babies, with equal ground and trust. It's the kind of responsibility I begged for when our first child was born. And he refused.

[formflier]

 

Got it... .you have several wants and things here... .

Can you boil it down to "just" the DV (for now).  Think of it as a step... .but a huge step for him.

Have you responded to the email at all?  If not... please don't until we look it over here. 

Remember... .less is more.  No controversy in writing (from you)... .no promises... .

What you want to do is validate and express that you both are looking for solutions.

FF

[formflier]

 

And great job expressing all of your stuff here... .

This is the place you let it "all hang out"... .vent... .all that. 

FF

[Butterfly12]

I haven't responded at all to that email or any other texts, emails, etc since. And like most pwBPD, he tries to engage me frequently.

Ok, so, basically I need to just figure out how to ask him to own the DV.

[formflier]

I haven't responded at all to that email or any other texts, emails, etc since. And like most pwBPD, he tries to engage me frequently.

Ok, so, basically I need to just figure out how to ask him to own the DV.

How often do you respond to emails and texts?  Ever...

My gut tells me that something short and hopeful is appropriate... .however... if it would be odd for him to get a reply email from you.  Now is probably not the time to change that up.

In the past how often do you agree to things he asks? 

How often have you guys compromised on things so you both get to "win win".  He gets what he wants... .you get what you want.

Tell me more about his arrest and sentencing.  Did he have to complete any type of "program" for DV or anger management.

Just to be clear... .there was an arrest, trial, he was found guilty, he served some kind of sentence.  Any part of that I got wrong?

Do you have pictures of your wounds/injuries?

I realize this may be hard to talk about... .but critically important that you be prepared.

Just so you know... .my goal is to get you to a place where minimal time will be spent on his demands... .because your answer is "I accept that part of the compromise... " 

And the majority of the time is spent with him... .understanding what you need.

Yes... .there will be some early time where you go over the email and make sure you have it right... .

On the off chance that he accepts... .it's a win. 

Be prepared for him to bob and weave and try to get what he wants (his part of compromise) and leave you with nada or to knock part of what you want down.

FF

[Butterfly12]

I do respond, if I need to, to his emails and texts. It used to be that I always did, but my responses were too quick, often angry and frustrated. I have learned to turn off my immediate lashing out, which has been very helpful. He wanted that reaction out of me. It fed his belief that he was correct I was the abusive one, even if his original words were a sucker punch.

I have frequently given him what he wants over the past ten years. Pretty much always. He is accustomed to being right and not being challenged for his opinions. If you question, you aren't agreeing. Therefore are unaccepting of him as a whole.  It is rare that we compromise. He usually has to have the upper hand. Which is contrary to what the email says- the idea that it is me that is that way. It is simply untrue.

He was arrested. Held. Bailed out. Taken to court and sentenced. Had a sentence for a year of no contact with me. The sentence ended over a year ago. He was not sentenced to any anger management. Unfortunately.  I do not have photos of my injuries, but my mother, aunt, doctor and best friend saw them.

So, basically what you are saying I make clear that I accept, and then lay out the ground rules that for me to completely accept he has to accept my demands?

[formflier]

So, basically what you are saying I make clear that I accept, and then lay out the ground rules that for me to completely accept he has to accept my demands?

Yes... .win win.

And listen... .this may be the hard part for you.  You need to also say you are fine with not agreeing... .that you are willing to continue working with where he is at (not accepting responsibility) and trying to repair the marriage.

Do no threaten or explain the consequences of him not agreeing.  He can figure this out. 

The reason you want him to go first and to confirm his desires is that you want to make sure there is "nothing else" he wants/needs.

Very likely that he will start adding demands when he sees what you want.  Don't go down that street.  No bar moving.

He sets the bar... .and you set the bar.  Each of you is then responsible for jumping over what has been set for you to "show" that you value the marriage, the r/s and are interested in repair.

The box that he has built for himself by committing DV... .is the box that you need to enforce he stays in... .

He wants out of that box without doing the work to get himself out. 

This is not the place for forgiveness or acting as if it didn't happen. 

Can you call a DV hotline or find out about DV programs that he could complete. 

FF

[formflier]

I do respond, if I need to, to his emails and texts. It used to be that I always did, but my responses were too quick, often angry and frustrated. I have learned to turn off my immediate lashing out, which has been very helpful. 

I'm thinking that a quick reply thanking him for his thoughtful, solution focused email and that you are looking forward to identifying solutions in the meeting with Joe tomorrow.

Short... .thankful... .mention solutions a few times.  (No agreement or disagreement from you about anything in there)

How do you think he would receive such an email from you?


FF

[Cat Familiar]

Hi Butterfly,

Formflier contacted me and asked me to add to the conversation about your husband and his email. I was married for almost 20 years to a man who assaulted me more times than I'd like to remember. I did not involve the authorities, which would have been preferable, but one day I vowed to myself that I would end the marriage if ever assaulted again. And I did. Some years later I read in the newspaper that he attacked his second wife. He fled the state before his arraignment and currently has an outstanding warrant for his arrest, so it's unlikely I'll ever see him again, thankfully.

Anyway, I read the email your husband wrote with the knowledge that domestic violence had occurred in your relationship and my first thought was that it was a very controlling message, well-written and disguised through polite language. I get the sense that your husband is quite intelligent and is also a master manipulator.

Then I read through all your posts since you've joined BPD family. There are some similarities to my first husband: substance abuse, financial irresponsibility and unwillingness to accept responsibility.

I'm just going to free associate some impressions: I would attempt to have conversations with my husband to try to work out issues that were troubling to me. He, like your husband, was incensed if I "interrupted" him. He would start these long monologues where there was no way to get a word in edgewise. Because I was willing to acknowledge my own issues and failings, I would end up apologizing for all my flaws. After one of these "conversations" I would walk away amazed that none of what I wanted to bring up was discussed and it all was "my fault" for whatever problems we were having.

My husband was amazingly charismatic and could easily fool people through his wit and intelligence. Insightful people could see through him, particularly if they knew him over time. He was very creative and imaginative, but this did not translate much to physical reality. He expected to be rewarded for his ideas rather than having to do the actual work to bring them to manifestation. He, like your husband, quoted Carlos Casteneda. He had a sense that he was better than other people: more intelligent, more spiritual, more perceptive.

I think because of that inflated sense of self, he was disturbed if he was questioned about anything he said, did or thought, because that meant that someone believed there was a flaw somewhere in his thinking.

I don't know if I would agree to your husband's demands in that email. I really don't like the tone of that letter and if he's anything like my ex-husband, you give them an inch and they want to take a mile.

I'm so sorry you're in this situation with him.    I read in your writings that you love the man you married and really miss him.

[babyducks]

Hi butterfly,

I apologize if this has already been covered,  I may have missed it.

What is your sense of what is best for your children?  What kind of relationship do you hope for them to have with their father?

':)ucks

[formflier]

Butterfly,

Prepare for the monologue... .don't fight it.  Keep your follow up questions short and to the point.  You want to understand his point... .(not agree or disagree).

Hopefully MC can keep him on point... .only dealing with his ideas/requests in the email.  That's what he sent you... .that is what you are prepared to discuss.

To be clear... .you agreement to everything is contingent on him owning DV and taking verifiable steps to address this.

We still need to define and understand what "owning" DV is.

The status quo doesn't change 1 inch in his favor until he "owns" DV.  

This needs to be said to him in an positive... .agreeable way.  So... you do get this and I get this is much preferable to I won't do this if you don't do this.

See how one is positive and one is negative.

Positivism rules the day for you.  Let him be the one to go negative.  

Very likely he will. Don't follow.

Concept:  It needs to be safe to say no.  Especially around a person with DV history... .or abusive and threatening behavior.

It is critical that if he declines to own this that you don't attack him... .it needs to be safe for him to say no.  Just like it needs to be safe for you to say no to his requests... demands.

You have found a way to say yes... .focus on that.  

I realize that making it safe for him to say no is probably not what you want... .wouldn't be for me either.  You are demonstrating good, healthy behavior.

Let him demonstrate bad.

FF

[Butterfly12]

I'm so confused.

[Butterfly12]

Cat,

What you said is so familiar. It scares me so much that you seem to know exactly what i'm talking about. That makes me feel so lost and hopeless.

[Cat Familiar]

Butterfly,

I'm going to re-imagine my former marriage and what strategies I could have employed with the skills and understanding I have since learned about BPD from this site and through counseling. Hopefully some of this might be of use to you.

This may come out randomly, but bear with me.

The first thought I had is that my husband, whether or not he purposefully intended to, systematically set about to destroy my sense of self-esteem. He was very critical about everything about me, whether it was something I said, my weight (I'm 5'7 and I weigh 118 pounds--and he thought I was too fat when I weighed 125), my intelligence, my cooking, you name it.

He did a lot of reading of "spiritual books" and thought of himself as a guru-type, although he wouldn't have worded it that way. He had a lot of insecure people who looked up to him for advice, but after a while, realized that he didn't have much to offer.

He was very articulate and quick with words and could easily talk over me.

He showed a very sensitive side to me at times. He was really wounded by events and people in childhood and this is an area where we bonded.


OK, knowing what I know now, what would I have done differently:

A standard practice for abusers is to separate you from friends and family and people who could support you. I would cultivate my friendships and get support from family. I would not keep secrets like I did about his behavior and I would fully share that with others.

It's hard to say that I wouldn't let him undermine my sense of self-worth, but having a strong sense of self is important in being in relationship with someone with a personality disorder. I would talk with domestic violence advocates and share my story. Some of these themes are so repetitive--you may think it just happens to you, but it's a well-observed pattern.

Because I'm not as articulate and it takes longer to formulate a thought, I would not engage in the abusive conversations I experienced. I would limit my words to a few and if he chose to try to heap verbal abuse upon me, I would disengage. "I'm not interested in having this conversation now."

Once you understand BPD, you're not as likely to be wowed by the adoration, nor destroyed by the negativity. I kept believing that the nice times were reality and the ugly times were an anomaly.


About you: it's obvious that you are a strong person, keeping it together for your children, working and supporting your family. I know you'd love for your husband to return to being the man he was before he had his meltdowns. That may not happen. So what do you do now? I think you're doing the most important thing--looking truthfully at your life and seeing your partner for who he is. Where you go from here? Stay strong and acknowledge yourself for the hard work and strength you have.   

[formflier]

Cat,

What you said is so familiar. It scares me so much that you seem to know exactly what i'm talking about. That makes me feel so lost and hopeless.

Just like many BPD stories are very similar, many DV stories are as well.

Unfortunately, I am more aware of DV stories that have ended in divorce or with the person that committed the DV never acknowledging/addressing the issue.

What I am positive of is that the only way to a healthy r/s for you and your husband is for him to address what he has done.

Your role in that (your boundaries) are to clearly lay out your position and the pathway he needs to walk to redemption.  Your role is to keep the message short, powerful and clear.

At that point... the ball is in his court.  

There are no guarantees... .

 

My hope for you is that you emerge from this as a powerful testimony of someone that stood up for themselves, their child and their marriage.  

FF

[Butterfly12]

Ok. So what I am feeling is that I need to go to the session tomorrow. Hold tight to myself. And listen. And hear what he has to say. And then validate that I did hear it- repeat it back and make sure I understand what he is asking for. And at that point say very clearly and distinctly that what I need is to feel that he acknowledges the DV was wrong, and that he did in fact do it. And if things are to change, an acceptance needs to be made that we both have made hurtful moves in our lives together and to change anything, it all needs to change. I can't live with the idea he won't own his role, and he can't live with my "controlling" nature.

Yes?

[formflier]

 

I'm not going to argue against that... .

Those that know me on here are familiar with good, better, best...

I think you have proposed better.

Best would be (IMO) for you to have identified a program or something he can complete (will take time and effort) to address the DV.

That is why calling a DV hotline... .to find out what he can sign up for and complete.

Chances that he would "graduate" or complete a DV course without acknowledging it is wrong... .about zero.

I would not push for him to agree or confess to his stuff in the MC tomorrow.  He may... .or he may not.

Your goal is to lay out the pathway that he can choose to walk to get what he wants

I would stay away from admitting you have hurt him or done wrong (that is for another time)

2 goals.

1.  Understand what he wants.  This is confirming your understanding of the email... .you say it back to him and get his acknowledgement.  Finally, somehow confirm "is there anything else"... .or "this is your entire request?"  In essence... his request is for equality... .for fairness.  (Do I understand his request correctly?)

2.  Deliver the short and to the point message.  "I will be able to agree to ALL of what you have requested after you complete xyz"

Don't justify it... .don't "sell" it... .

If he refuses... .or goes off on some tangent.


"Help me understand the equality in our relationship that was demonstrated during (is there a name for what took place?)  How is it talked about?

How has this been handled/talked about in MC up to this point?

Back to a point about admitting things.

I would say that your line about both parties having changes they can and should make is a good one (that seems fair)... however... I'm reluctant to have you admit to hurting him.

All of that takes away from the clarity of what he needs to do in order to do his part to heal.

You have already acknowledged your willingness to change by accepting his proposal.

Hope that makes sense...

FF

[formflier]

 I can't live with the idea he won't own his role, and he can't live with my "controlling" nature.

This is the principle... .but it is not a solution.

His email and his proposal seems very concrete... .a solution that can be verified.  Vice an attitude.

It is critical that your proposal be clear and verifiable.  Either he attends and completes the program... .or he doesn't.

FF

[Butterfly12]

Up until now he has completely denied it. He has not talked about it, and my words about it are the only ones spoken. He blames me for every single event. He says I made it all up.

However, I have a police report that suggest otherwise. The point being at this point, though, might not be to drag up past and try and focus on future, if we can have one. The case he make is that he cannot do it if I do not allow him to be an "equal" parent.

However, the path he wants to achieve this is completely bazaar. Only if I "allow" this will he consider working on our marriage? What?

[formflier]

Up until now he has completely denied it. He has not talked about it, and my words about it are the only ones spoken. He blames me for every single event. He says I made it all up.

However, I have a police report that suggest otherwise. The point being at this point, though, might not be to drag up past and try and focus on future, if we can have one. The case he make is that he cannot do it if I do not allow him to be an "equal" parent.

However, the path he wants to achieve this is completely bazaar. Only if I "allow" this will he consider working on our marriage? What?

Generally... the thought you expressed about not dragging up the past is correct.  HOWEVER, DV is something that should not be swept under the rug... .

Especially where there is an arrest, conviction, and sentence served.  To be in denial about that... .well... .that is not a good sign.

Listen:  I don't recommend "frontal assualts" on pwBPD.  In this case that would be any expectation that he own it, apologize tomorrow, and do a complete 180... tomorrow.  There is a chance that "nudging" him into a program... .or into counseling may work.   I stress "may"... . 

He will have to "get through" the DV program in order to complete it or graduate.  About zero chance a legitimate program will allow a guy to complete while in denial that it happened.  This places them as the authority figure and the "heavy"... .vice you.  Your role is not go get justice for you... .or to "fix" him. 

Let the professionals handle that. 

Your role is to clearly lay out his choices... .and to be wise and resist his efforts to "talk you down" to something more reasonable.

You can express that you are all for equality in parenting... .in all facets of the r/s

There is nothing "equal" about bullying, abusive words and behavior... .and DV... .that is about gaining the upper hand.

he will give you equality... .you will give him equality... .  How could anyone argue against that...

I'm sure he will try to find a way... .don't get pulled into the argument.

FF

[Sunfl0wer]

However, the path he wants to achieve this is completely bazaar. Only if I "allow" this will he consider working on our marriage? What?

My ex made statements to this effect during the b/u.  He essentially was trying to create leverage... .hold the relationship hostage... .until demands were met... .even though he had no intention of considering the r/s under the circumstances.  He brought up the idea... .If Sunflower doesn't do xyz, then she'll never have hope of me working on repairing this r/s. 

[Butterfly12]

Ok, so one thing I am unclear about. I just spoke to the DV program director in our county. She said that the program is 48 weeks and usually court mandated.

How is me asking him to do this an "equal" request?

And how can I carefully ask him to do this?

I'm sorry if I seem foggy and naive, I'm just... .cautious.

[Butterfly12]

Also, he denies it all. Even to the counselor. He says it's all me. How can I do this?

I almost feel like I should just go and listen tomorrow... .and save this for the next time. Refuse to sign a thing and change a thing until I DO get what I need as well. But tomorrow just Listen. Show up.