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Author Topic: Does anyone else have weeks like this?  (Read 506 times)
flourdust
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« on: November 09, 2015, 08:06:10 PM »

A month ago, I posted a "day in the life," recounting the episodes from a typical day with my BPDw. I'm still enforcing my boundaries and still seeing plenty of awful behavior from her. I understand that it gets worse before it gets better, but I wonder how long I should expect this to take. It's been about three months since I started enforcing boundaries for the first time, and nothing has improved.

Here's a distillation of the last week.

Sunday: It was our wedding anniversary. The night before she had an enormous screaming meltdown, and D10 and I had to leave her at home to go to a Halloween party. Today, I gave her a nice anniversary present. She was happy about it, and then immediately picked a fight over something I couldn't understand ... .it seemed to be about how I needed a signal so I wouldn't interrupt her unspoken thoughts. She hadn't bought me anything. I wasn't surprised.

Later, she couldn't find her iPhone and sent me a long series of panic-stricken emails as she totally melted down.

Monday: W was home with D10 all day. She called me at work to vent about fighting with her. At night, she was short-tempered and called D10 a liar several times. (I don't really think calling her names is good parenting.)

Tuesday: We had a family session with D10's therapist. I had insisted on this. We talked about D10's fears that we'll get divorced, what that would mean for her if it happened, and how D10 can stay safe when W dysregulates and threatens to leave or commit suicide in front of her. The session went really well, and I was impressed that W held it together enough to deliver a constructive message to D10.

Wednesday: W works in the evening, so we didn't interact much.

Thursday: W called me to rant about a fight with D10. She grabbed D10 and thought about spanking her. We had MC in the evening, and W barely held it together during the session. I was commenting that I wasn't seeing much effective change from her DBT program. Afterwards, she was furious with me and wanted to teach me how I was wrong about DBT. I wasn't thrilled about doing this and said so, though I was reluctantly willing. She got mean and condescending toward me.

Friday: W lectured me on how I was wrong to tell D10 a piece of news in the car. W likes to make up rules out of bits and pieces of past conversations so she can blame me for not following the "rules." I just acknowledged her and said I wouldn't do it again, but that wasn't enough to satisfy her anger, so she kept chastising me. I walked away. That made her extra pissy. She and D10 fought a lot in the afternoon, and W transferred her anger to me when I got home. She blamed my behavior in the morning for causing her rotten day.

At dinner, she slipped on the floor and D10 got up to steady her. W became furious that I hadn't also gotten up (though she had once blown her top in the past when I had, because I was "crowding her." She exploded, said she would "never eat dinner again" and stormed off to the bedroom. I went in to offer to help and she was a screaming mess, calling me a f***ing liar. D10 and I ate without her. D10 was upset but pointed out that this was our typical family dinner. W wanted to have a conversation with me later, where she could lecture me about all the rules I had allegedly broken. I stayed calm but didn't agree with her, and she cursed me out, said she would put all my money in her bank account, and told me to leave. I slept upstairs in the guest room -- I was relieved. I sleep better there.

Saturday: Silent treatment in the morning. She stayed in bed past 10. I was getting ready to take D10 to her skating lesson and asked if W was coming. She began complaining about me not listening to her and said she was terrified of me. Then she got upset at D10, because D10 hadn't come in to hug her instead of watching a TV show. She was upset that D10's hair was tangled and told her that she cared about getting her hair brushed even if I don't. She brushed D10's hair, getting more and more agitated and screaming that she was a liar.

Classic conversation ensued.

W: Are you picking me up or not after skating?

Me: Sure, do you want to get lunch?

W: I just said I want lunch! But apparently you can't hear me or answer a simple question!

(A minute later.)

W: I just want to know if you're going to talk to me today.

Me: I'll talk to you. I just don't want to fight.

W: I don't care what you want! I want to know if you're going to talk to me today!

Me: (leaves)

She got angry in the restaurant because I didn't speak up to support her when she told D10 she couldn't have soda. She declared she wasn't welcome at our table and ate by herself. We tried to get her to leave when we were all finished, and she threatened to throw a fit in the restaurant. We left her there, went shopping, and came back to retrieve her. She demanded that we finish "six unresolved conversations plus one I haven't started." Oh boy. She added "We need to talk. It's going to be a long talk. It is up to you when it happens. It's not up to you if it happens."

So, at night, I let her talk at me for an hour. I stayed very chill. Mostly, she wanted to prove she was a master of DBT and that my enforcing boundaries and not apologizing reflexively for everything made me an unsupportive jerk. Overall, it was a civil conversation. She only called me a f***ng idiot once!

So, that's a typical week. Is this ever going to get better?

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JohnLove
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« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2015, 04:57:06 AM »

Oh dear flourdust. It is possible it can get better. Maybe with a little bit more focus from you (not saying you've done a thing "wrong" and a LOT more effort in the right direction from your wife.

I can see she is constantly fighting for "control". The one sided anniversary, the gaslighting, the delusions, the blaming (Find My iPhone service works great in these instances), the passive aggressive behaviour, the name calling, the rewriting history, the twisting, the unrealistic expectations, the demands, the silent treatment, the rages... .none of this is healthy.

My understanding of DBT is that it places them under a load of stress when becoming accountable for their behaviour and actions. Even with concerted effort it gets worse before it gets better. At least Wednesday went well.  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)  I'm unsure how she is supposed to teach you anything about DBT. You might be wrong?... .it might be helping her internally... .but I don't really see it at this point either... .but I don't know how she is feeling.

My relationship with my exBPD fully collapsed with her involving police and making demands and accusations while drunk... .after she cheated.    That was never going to end well. 

I wish you and D10 happier times. 
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« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2015, 11:04:37 AM »

At least Wednesday went well.  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post) 

No, I don't have weeks like this because you actually get a day off on Wednesday Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

Kidding aside, yes, sometimes I have weeks like this. The encouraging thing is that your wife is aware of her issue and is at least going for treatment.

Huge mistake for me was talking to my wife a few months ago about BPD and suggesting we look further into it. She accused me of having it and said that there was nothing wrong with her. I have not brought it up again. My desire is to one day have her in treatment as well. But Yikes, three months of constant stress and raging is tough. I know when I've tried to set boundaries and I respond differently to her anger, her anger lasts longer. I trust it will get better.

As many here suggest, focus on taking care of yourself and watch those triggers.
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flourdust
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« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2015, 11:07:51 AM »

Thanks for the encouragement! It helps -- it really does.

The thing about the BPD diagnosis is that it isn't a magic wand. My wife first denied her diagnosis, then switched gears and accepted it. But it becomes an excuse for either a) her feelings of persecution (we're blaming everything on her illness, which means we're blaming her) or b) her lack of responsibility for any of her behaviors (it's the fault of the illness, and she's in treatment, so we can't react negatively to her actions).

I do hope that the DBT lessons eventually start to affect how she's interacting with me.
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maxsterling
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« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2015, 11:26:29 AM »

Yep.  MANY weeks like this.  It's exhausting.  Some of what you wrote is almost word for word what I have experienced. 

I'm impressed by your daughter.  She seems very aware. 

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Cloudy Days
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« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2015, 11:58:47 AM »

I can't say that things go down the same way as your life but there is certainly a problem every day that I am expected to deal with even though it is something he is upset about and I could basically just shrug it off and keep going.

I must add that my husband started out denying that he had BPD and eventually after a hospital stay and several different mental doctors he looked up something on the internet and he said, this is exactly how I feel, I do have BPD... .It was on Youtube, not sure why he looked it up but he did. It was a relief but it also turned into "well, this is my disorder so you just have to deal with it because it is not my fault". I found a place that specializes in treating BPD and when going to DBT he would do the same as your wife. He would basically twist the lesson to fit his view of the world. He was then diagnosed with Brain damage which led to a favorable decision on a disability claim (took 4 years) and he is seeing a therapist but he still does not take responsibility for his emotions and actions. We will talk about something that I find unacceptable and he will blame it on me. Saying I did something that caused the behavior in him. It has gotten better with medication, less raging but the BPD is still present and it's still a constant struggle every day.
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« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2015, 08:50:21 PM »

 

Dude... .     you are the man for hanging in there for your daughter.

FF
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unicorn2014
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« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2015, 12:51:48 AM »

Wow flourdust, my heart breaks for you and your daughter  :'(

May I ask if your wife is on any medication?

I really appreciate your post, especially the part about six unresolved conversations plus one more. That reminds me of my pwBPD. Its very interesting to see the commonality between behaviors even when the genders and roles are different. Thank you for taking the time to write that out.

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« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2015, 12:46:57 PM »

Yes, this looks like a page out of my life. But what I do now is just let it go. It seems like you have as well. They want to blow up about their "rule" or that you "didn't listen" or the kid is a liar (very often), I just smile and nod. I like to put a percentage on the times. I am about 80% good times.

P.S. I love "the talk". If I try to express my views or opinions there will be hell to pay. It is really just a lot of head nods and sorrys until I am allowed to leave the area.
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flourdust
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« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2015, 01:00:23 PM »

Wow flourdust, my heart breaks for you and your daughter  :'(

May I ask if your wife is on any medication?

Oh, plenty! Medications for anxiety, depression, headaches, mood regulation, some prescribed vitamins, and more. It's a hodgepodge. Her current psychiatrist, who is conversant with BPD, has her on lithium as a primary mood regulator. We've talked about switching to something else, because her moods are very obviously not regulated, but he doesn't think that's the path to go down. For one thing, the effectiveness of medication on BPD symptoms isn't very strongly supported in research, and with her current collection of 12+ meds, he's worried about serotonin syndrome and drug interaction effects. I can't say he's wrong. While I know the current combination of meds isn't keeping her BPD regulated, there's not much evidence that any other combo would do a significantly better job.

I've also been struck at how many parallels I see in other BPD stories on this board. It's eerie to come across someone else's post essentially describing your life.
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flourdust
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« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2015, 01:02:40 PM »

P.S. I love "the talk". If I try to express my views or opinions there will be hell to pay. It is really just a lot of head nods and sorrys until I am allowed to leave the area.

For the hour-long talk, I went in with a strategy. I made a cup of really good ginger-lemon tea and counted my sips. When I ran out, I left to get more tea, which also made for a nice break in the conversation. I didn't do much apologizing (I'm sticking to a boundary of not apologizing when I don't feel I'm at fault or that the 'offense' is a real one), and I did some validation as well as quietly disagreeing without JADEing. But focusing on the tea really helped me stay chill.
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« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2015, 01:12:58 PM »

 

Many times I start the conversation without a drink... .if ti starts to get edgy I excuse myself to get us both some ice water.

I do the exact same thing of focusing on regular... small sips...

FF
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« Reply #12 on: November 12, 2015, 01:26:38 PM »

Figuring out how to handle deregulation is much of what we do here on Staying.

My first approach was honey you are really upset, let me soothe you and make you feel better.  Epic fail.    That only made her more upset.

My second approach was honey I really understand why you feel upset,  what are you going to do about it.    Moderately better.    Kind of bumpy

My third approach was you are upset, that's going to happen from time to time,  I will be here when that's over for you.  That finally stuck.

It took about 9 months, to get from point a  to point b.   The break through moment for us came when she deregulation and I didn't react at all.   I said pretty much, do what you think you need to do, I will take care of myself and went off and had a good day.  She was stunned that I wasn't upset too.

It clicked that it wasnt working for her.  

I thinK the other trick was I was validating positive moments better.
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« Reply #13 on: November 12, 2015, 04:14:39 PM »



Oh, plenty! Medications for anxiety, depression, headaches, mood regulation, some prescribed vitamins, and more. It's a hodgepodge. Her current psychiatrist, who is conversant with BPD, has her on lithium as a primary mood regulator. We've talked about switching to something else, because her moods are very obviously not regulated, but he doesn't think that's the path to go down. For one thing, the effectiveness of medication on BPD symptoms isn't very strongly supported in research, and with her current collection of 12+ meds, he's worried about serotonin syndrome and drug interaction effects. I can't say he's wrong. While I know the current combination of meds isn't keeping her BPD regulated, there's not much evidence that any other combo would do a significantly better job.

Wow flourdust, that is quite a combination. Have you read the meds discussion on BPD family? I wonder if that med combination is part of the problem. I've never heard of lithium being used to treat BPD, but I'm not very knowledgable. There are definitely drugs that are used to treat the symptoms of BPD. Now I'm even more curious what she's taking.

I'm sorry if I missed it early, has she been diagnosed with BPD?

Yours sounds like a very hard road to haul.

May I ask some basic facts so I can get familiar with your story?

How many children?

How long have you been married?
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flourdust
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« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2015, 09:57:44 AM »

I don't think I've seen the meds discussion. Can you point me to it?

Right now, the meds she's on that should affect mood and brain function include lithium, sertraline (Zoloft), buspar, atarax, and topamax. She has a LONG history of mental illness -- depression and anxiety were diagnosed pretty early on. BPD was only diagnosed this year, but her history suggests she was predisposed to it from childhood and then experienced abuse and other trauma that led to BPD behaviors as a teenager. She was fairly well-controlled when we met, and didn't really begin to show serious problems until about seven years ago. She also had a TBI a few years ago that made things much worse.

We've been married about a dozen years and have one child, who also has some emotional-behavioral problems.
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Cloudy Days
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« Reply #15 on: November 13, 2015, 10:07:18 AM »

To me lithium is more for people who have Bipolar disorder... .My husband had a good run on lamictal but his hands started going numb and requested to go off of it, he's on a new medication that to me has done nothing for him.
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unicorn2014
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« Reply #16 on: November 13, 2015, 10:32:24 AM »

To me lithium is more for people who have Bipolar disorder... .My husband had a good run on lamictal but his hands started going numb and requested to go off of it, he's on a new medication that to me has done nothing for him.

How much lamictal was he on and how long did it take before his hands went numb, if you don't mind?
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unicorn2014
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« Reply #17 on: November 13, 2015, 10:34:44 AM »

I don't think I've seen the meds discussion. Can you point me to it?

Right now, the meds she's on that should affect mood and brain function include lithium, sertraline (Zoloft), buspar, atarax, and topamax. She has a LONG history of mental illness -- depression and anxiety were diagnosed pretty early on. BPD was only diagnosed this year, but her history suggests she was predisposed to it from childhood and then experienced abuse and other trauma that led to BPD behaviors as a teenager. She was fairly well-controlled when we met, and didn't really begin to show serious problems until about seven years ago. She also had a TBI a few years ago that made things much worse.

We've been married about a dozen years and have one child, who also has some emotional-behavioral problems.

Here you go https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=141634

I've seen discussion of her drugs there.
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Cloudy Days
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« Reply #18 on: November 13, 2015, 10:57:54 AM »

I don't remember the dosage amount, I know he was taking 3 pills a day. He was on it for about a year before he went off of it, the numbness just kept getting worse, He noticed it a few months before going off of it. He even tapered down some to see if it would help and it didn't stop the numbness. We didn't realize it was from the medication until I looked it up and it says that it can cause numbness in hands. He plays the guitar so this is something that really effects him and one of the only things he really enjoys doing.
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It's not the future you are afraid of, it's repeating the past that makes you anxious.
flourdust
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« Reply #19 on: November 13, 2015, 11:00:01 AM »

Thanks for the link!
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