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Author Topic: Poor executive control: What can and can't I say about my feelings to a pwBPD?  (Read 866 times)
EaglesJuju
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« Reply #30 on: November 11, 2015, 03:08:58 PM »

Eagles, so how do I not deal with the behavior?

You have a couple of options. One is to learn to accept this is the way he behaves.  If you go the route of radical acceptance, it is understanding that his behavior has nothing to do with you and nor can you change it. You can choose to not become affected by the way he acts and accept this is a part of the disorder.  Another option is to set boundaries and decide what you will and will not tolerate. If you cannot tolerate his behavior, it is up to you to decide what is best for you.

These are decisions that you can make for yourself. He cannot make these decisions. Expecting him to conform is going to lead you in circles. You cannot control the way he behaves or thinks.  
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« Reply #31 on: November 11, 2015, 03:11:02 PM »

In terms of how the r/s started, I thought it was a good idea at the time to be engaged. I had no idea that 3 years later nothing would have changed. Does that answer your question?

Not really... .what did you "consciously think" was happening when you thought it was a good idea to become engaged?

I'm not asking about what you thought the future would turn out to be... .I'm asking what you thought was happening when he asked you to be engaged.

FF
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« Reply #32 on: November 11, 2015, 03:15:42 PM »

For example he just hung up on me because I told him when he doesn't respond to me it makes me think the conversation is over and I want to end it. I put my phone in do not disturb mode. I am sure he's sent me texts.



This seems to me to be an explanation for what you want to do.  Explanation is part of JADE.  JADE is generally not a good way to do things with pwBPD.

End it on your terms... .no explanation.

"I'll let you think about the issue I raised... .I'll call you tomorrow night and we can discuss it"

Then... move on with your life until the next time you reach out to him.

If he is being nice to you and not "emotionally dominating" you... .then sure... .take his calls... .answer his texts.

If he is not being nice... .create some space for him to "soothe himself".  The reasons he is not being nice, very likely, have nothing to do with you.

FF
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unicorn2014
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« Reply #33 on: November 11, 2015, 05:55:38 PM »

Eagles, so how do I not deal with the behavior?

You have a couple of options. One is to learn to accept this is the way he behaves.  If you go the route of radical acceptance, it is understanding that his behavior has nothing to do with you and nor can you change it. You can choose to not become affected by the way he acts and accept this is a part of the disorder.  Another option is to set boundaries and decide what you will and will not tolerate. If you cannot tolerate his behavior, it is up to you to decide what is best for you.

So how can I not be affected by the way he acts, as that is the more attractive option to me. Keeping in mind he is in denial about having the disorder and when he's dysregulated he likes to attack me and say I have the disorder.
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unicorn2014
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« Reply #34 on: November 11, 2015, 05:57:47 PM »

In terms of how the r/s started, I thought it was a good idea at the time to be engaged. I had no idea that 3 years later nothing would have changed. Does that answer your question?

Not really... .what did you "consciously think" was happening when you thought it was a good idea to become engaged?

I'm not asking about what you thought the future would turn out to be... .I'm asking what you thought was happening when he asked you to be engaged.

FF

I thought that he was going to divorce his wife, move out here and we were going to get married. That's what he said was going to happen. I can't remember if he proposed before or after I found out he was married. I'm thinking before as he told me he was hoping to unwind everything before I found out about it. He thought he was going to be able to divorce quickly. He said he didn't tell me he was married to protect me.
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unicorn2014
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« Reply #35 on: November 11, 2015, 06:01:34 PM »

For example he just hung up on me because I told him when he doesn't respond to me it makes me think the conversation is over and I want to end it. I put my phone in do not disturb mode. I am sure he's sent me texts.



This seems to me to be an explanation for what you want to do.  Explanation is part of JADE.  JADE is generally not a good way to do things with pwBPD.

End it on your terms... .no explanation.

"I'll let you think about the issue I raised... .I'll call you tomorrow night and we can discuss it"

That's not why the call was lost. The call was lost after I told him I didn't have time to call him on my break as I had to pay for my class, go to the bathroom and that was it. He had told me he was waiting around during my break to see if I would call. He's very clingy and needy.

Excerpt
If he is being nice to you and not "emotionally dominating" you... .then sure... .take his calls... .answer his texts.

You put emotionally dominating in quotes. What would you call it?

Excerpt
If he is not being nice... .create some space for him to "soothe himself".  The reasons he is not being nice, very likely, have nothing to do with you.

FF

He wasn't, he was letting me hang out there in the air at the bus stop. I had asked him if he liked listening to the background noise. I hate it when he goes quiet on a phone call. Its like a mini silent treatment. We could probably sit there for a long time with neither of us saying anything. He says this is being connected. I say its annoying and a waste of time and energy.

So I guess in this case I could say "It seems the conversation is over as we have nothing further to say, so I'm going to go now."

Of course if I did that he'd get offended and say it was too abrupt.

Its really a no win situation for me.

He likes hanging out on the phone saying nothing because it helps him feel connected to me.

It helps me get irritated with him.

Smiling (click to insert in post)

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EaglesJuju
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« Reply #36 on: November 11, 2015, 06:40:50 PM »

So how can I not be affected by the way he acts, as that is the more attractive option to me. Keeping in mind he is in denial about having the disorder and when he's dysregulated he likes to attack me and say I have the disorder.

You do this by learning to radically accept the disorder. His denial of BPD has nothing to do with you and is his issue. You are letting it become your issue by reacting to his attacks and accusations. If you believe what he says is not true, then why does it bother you?



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« Reply #37 on: November 11, 2015, 07:23:33 PM »

Eagles it bothers me because he said he spent a small fortune vetting my concerns which totally invalidates me because here I am, even after all that. Does that make sense?

He's very persuasive .
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« Reply #38 on: November 11, 2015, 07:44:19 PM »

Eagles it bothers me because he said he spent a small fortune vetting my concerns which totally invalidates me because here I am, even after all that. Does that make sense?

He's very persuasive .

spent a small fortune vetting my concerns... .  (what does that mean).

How does him vetting concerns invalidate you?  If you are concerned... and he checked them out... .wouldn't that validate your concern?

I'm totally lost.

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unicorn2014
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« Reply #39 on: November 11, 2015, 08:04:32 PM »

Formflier he spent a lot of money on therapists to see if he had borderline and he feels satisfied he doesn't so ultimately that invalidates me because I still think he has BPD regardless of what he says his therapists said. I know for a fact he misinterpreted / misrepresented one of them.
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formflier
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« Reply #40 on: November 11, 2015, 08:10:03 PM »

Formflier he spent a lot of money on therapists to see if he had borderline and he feels satisfied he doesn't so ultimately that invalidates me because I still think he has BPD regardless of what he says his therapists said. I know for a fact he misinterpreted / misrepresented one of them.

OK... I'm not lost anymore.

Look... .this guy is obviously prone to deception.  I would not take anything he says about what professionals have told him at face value.

Even better... .why worry about it at all?

You can deal with the behavior that is presented to you.  Whether or not he has BPD makes no difference on whether or not you would stay on the phone with him while he is being abusive. 

Focus on the behavior.

Let him believe what he believes... .

You believe what you believe.

FF
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« Reply #41 on: November 11, 2015, 08:21:00 PM »

Ok form flier I will try.

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« Reply #42 on: November 12, 2015, 05:59:02 AM »

Formflier he spent a lot of money on therapists to see if he had borderline and he feels satisfied he doesn't so ultimately that invalidates me because I still think he has BPD regardless of what he says his therapists said. I know for a fact he misinterpreted / misrepresented one of them.

OK... I'm not lost anymore.

Look... .this guy is obviously prone to deception.  I would not take anything he says about what professionals have told him at face value.

Even better... .why worry about it at all?

You can deal with the behavior that is presented to you.  Whether or not he has BPD makes no difference on whether or not you would stay on the phone with him while he is being abusive. 

Focus on the behavior.

Let him believe what he believes... .

You believe what you believe.

FF

Deal with what you see in front of you, and how it affects you... That is your reality.

What he says, or tells you anyone else says, or even if you know what anyone else says... That is their reality.

Two people rarely have the same reality. A pwBPD and a non generally have a huge mismatch in realities that can't be bridged... .that is were radical acceptance comes in. Acknowledge he has his for his own reasons, and that he is not receptive to buying yours. Consequently dont waste your energy trying to sell it, or try to arrive at an agreed reality. This will repeat on many issues.

The current issue may be today's problem, but there will be a constant stream of similar discrepancies. Hence take the focus away from specific issues, and think more how you respond to these mismatches, otherwise you will be constantly angry at the unfairness of it all.

Borderline is close to psychotic, but not so far into it that the delusions of reality are still quite believable. If they were fully psychotic and were telling you they like to keep pink elephants as pets it would be so obviously nonsense that you wouldn't even bother arguing with them.

This is the biggest issue with BPD most of the time they sound believable so they are under diagnosed, under treated, and able delude themselves that they even have a problem. In short an ability to bluff their way through life unless you really know them... .In turn we delude ourselves that if we just address this issue, or that, and lay down a few ground rules we can shake them out of it. We can't, they will still believe they keep pink elephants, but lie about it to avoid being criticized.
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unicorn2014
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« Reply #43 on: November 12, 2015, 09:59:59 AM »

Wave rider that makes me not want to stick around.

Last night he was telling me how my mom was paranoid, then I told him that's the ninth trait of BPD. He said he never had that trait then shortly thereafter he went on to tell me how he thinks his best friend wants to steal something he wrote from him. As a result of this board I was able to recognize he does exhibit signs of paranoia.

Yesterday he also asked me if he would hold on to a family heirloom for him because he's afraid something might happen to it. I told him I would get back to him.

I did not know him at all before he proposed to me. I would not  have  chosen to be in a r/s with him had I known about all this.
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« Reply #44 on: November 12, 2015, 10:41:47 AM »

Last night he was telling me how my mom was paranoid, then I told him that's the ninth trait of BPD. He said he never had that trait then shortly thereafter he went on to tell me how he thinks his best friend wants to steal something he wrote from him. As a result of this board I was able to recognize he does exhibit signs of paranoia.

Is there a good... .healthy reason to be discussing your mom's paranoia (or lack of paranoia) with the pwBPD in your life?

Debating who has what... .discussing it... .rarely results in anything good. 

FF
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Cloudy Days
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« Reply #45 on: November 12, 2015, 02:08:20 PM »

Wave rider that makes me not want to stick around.

You realize that you do not have to stick around, you may want to examine the reasons you want to stay in this relationship. It is something all of us have had to do from time to time. Figure out why you are really in it for the long haul. No one is telling you to stay or go that is your choice. But it is important to really evaluate why you are staying as they may be dysfunctional reasons, especially since you have been raised by someone with a personality disorder.
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« Reply #46 on: November 12, 2015, 03:53:27 PM »

Wave rider that makes me not want to stick around.

We all have these thoughts at times, that is part of the ebb and flow of our emotions.

As Cloudydays points out, this is when we fall back on those internal debates where we have added up all the pros and cons and made objective and logical decisions which are not just based on emotions to get us through.

If we are reacting only to what we want in the moment, we will not be able to stay centered
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« Reply #47 on: November 12, 2015, 04:18:24 PM »

Last night he was telling me how my mom was paranoid, then I told him that's the ninth trait of BPD. He said he never had that trait then shortly thereafter he went on to tell me how he thinks his best friend wants to steal something he wrote from him. As a result of this board I was able to recognize he does exhibit signs of paranoia.

Is there a good... .healthy reason to be discussing your mom's paranoia (or lack of paranoia) with the pwBPD in your life?

Debating who has what... .discussing it... .rarely results in anything good. 

FF

FF

He was relating to me about my mom so I suppose next time I could just listen. He and my mom have their own separate relationship. Again, he initiated the conversation.

I need to find a way to indicate when he starts the conversation because sometimes I feel like things are being attributed to me that I didn't start. I will endeavor to be more clear in my future posts.
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« Reply #48 on: November 12, 2015, 04:20:10 PM »

Wave rider that makes me not want to stick around.

You realize that you do not have to stick around, you may want to examine the reasons you want to stay in this relationship. It is something all of us have had to do from time to time. Figure out why you are really in it for the long haul. No one is telling you to stay or go that is your choice. But it is important to really evaluate why you are staying as they may be dysfunctional reasons, especially since you have been raised by someone with a personality disorder.

Hi Cloudy Days, yes, my dad probably has NPD, and his mom probably had BPD.

I don't think my reasons for staying are dysfunctional.

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unicorn2014
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« Reply #49 on: November 12, 2015, 04:21:57 PM »

Wave rider that makes me not want to stick around.

We all have these thoughts at times, that is part of the ebb and flow of our emotions.

As Cloudydays points out, this is when we fall back on those internal debates where we have added up all the pros and cons and made objective and logical decisions which are not just based on emotions to get us through.

If we are reacting only to what we want in the moment, we will not be able to stay centered

Wave rider I hear you and thankfully I'm able to apply the pros and cons I learned in DBT: the pros and cons of leaving, the pros and cons of staying, and at this point I could not find a substantial pro for leaving. I am very grateful I have an opportunity to practice dbt again as I find it really helpful in my relationship.
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« Reply #50 on: November 12, 2015, 04:43:20 PM »

He was relating to me about my mom so I suppose next time I could just listen. He and my mom have their own separate relationship. Again, he initiated the conversation.

I need to find a way to indicate when he starts the conversation because sometimes I feel like things are being attributed to me that I didn't start. I will endeavor to be more clear in my future posts.

It was clear (to me) that he started it.  It was also clear that you made a choice to participate.

My suggestion is that you consider not participating in these conversations.  Politely decline.  If he insists on continuing, let him know you will call him back the next day (or something like that)

No explanation, just let him know that is not a conversation you will have.

FF
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« Reply #51 on: November 12, 2015, 04:49:15 PM »

He was relating to me about my mom so I suppose next time I could just listen. He and my mom have their own separate relationship. Again, he initiated the conversation.

I need to find a way to indicate when he starts the conversation because sometimes I feel like things are being attributed to me that I didn't start. I will endeavor to be more clear in my future posts.

It was clear (to me) that he started it.  It was also clear that you made a choice to participate.

My suggestion is that you consider not participating in these conversations.  Politely decline.  If he insists on continuing, let him know you will call him back the next day (or something like that)

No explanation, just let him know that is not a conversation you will have.

FF

FF, this conversation took place on FT at night when my daughter was home. I wasn't going to dysregulate myself and hang up on him because he started talking about my mom's paranoia. My mistake was to mention the 9th trait of BPD as he immediately related it to himself and then said he's never been that way. It was almost humorous how a story followed of how his best friend tried to take something from him that he wrote. I didn't point out the inconsistency to him however it is hard for me to contain the fact that he also seems to be exhibiting paranoia and be in denial of it.

I think I would be ok with just listening.

I learned a long time ago in Al-Anon that the proper response to an alcoholic who was telling you a story was "oh, so and no". I could have just said oh?

I was actually trying to apply Al-Anon to my pwBPD however it was not enough which is why I came here.

Even Randi Kreger in SWOE mentions Al-Anon when it comes to practicing detachment.

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