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Author Topic: Why do they cheat? If they have a fear of abandonment.  (Read 473 times)
CrazyChuck
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« on: November 13, 2015, 09:42:09 AM »

If they have a fear of abandonment, why do they cheat? I do not get that. It was a long time ago, but I still think about it often. When my wife and I very first started dating, she told me that she once feared I was going to cheat, so she had sex with another man. She said she couldn’t know if I was being honest and trusting. She said it was no big deal. She said she just couldn’t stand the thought of me with someone else. It really made her upset that I was upset. She didn’t think I had any reason to be upset. She then made sure it was clear that we were a couple at that point, that she told me about it. She was very fearful I might cheat after knowing she was with someone else. She just kept saying it was no big deal, just let it go. But still to this day if she gets upset about anything, she might insinuate that she is going to cheat. Several times she has told me she has no problem cheating. But she is extremely jealous of anyone around me. She tells me all the time “ don’t cheat on me”. But when I have said “don’t cheat on me”, she replies “then don’t piss me off”.

One day she was upset and told me she has had much larger penises than mine. Then she followed up with mine is average, but she still likes it. When I got upset, she kept saying “your penis size is fine”. I’m very self conscious about it now. That was over a year ago. So about a week past, she said a joke about men with large penises. I told her I didn’t want to hear anything about penis sizes. She got angry, and when I tried to talk to her about it, it quickly turned into a fight. I started trying to validate that I understand she doesn’t think it is a big deal, but it hurts me. She said that I didn’t care about her feelings and I was being narcissistic only thinking about myself. That me having an issue with it was insulting to her. She kept telling me to let it go. She said she doesn’t understand why I keep holding on to everything bad. Why can’t I just let it go and stop dwelling on it.

I really do not know why I dwell on those two bad situations. I think about them so much and it has been years. I started going to a T and she said I dwell on them because they serve a purpose. I just do not know what purpose.

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MaybeSo
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« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2015, 10:03:05 AM »

First, Not everyone w/ BPD cheats.  

Lots of folks on here don't have this problem.  And a lot do.

In my situation, fidelity was a problem with my partner, too.

Why?

1-Devaluation; it is inherently vulnerable to love and need another individual. If I love you and you become increasingly important to me, I am more and more existentially at risk of being hurt.   If I were to devalue the individual that I love,  the anxiety inherent in loving the person immediately abates.  I don't need this person, really, anymore... .I can sooth myself because I can be with anyone I want, someone "better" (read: someone less important),  someone who makes me feel good as opposed to a partner who will without fail at times makes me feel anxious or bad (intimacy is inherently disturbing).

2-For regulation purposes; A lot of attention seeking, flirting or cheating behavior is a habitual way of regulating mood.  It feels good to engage in mating behaviors, it is designed to feel good, the chase, the score, the intensity of sex, the positive mirroring that is required of mating rituals. All of this releases extremely potent feel-good chemicals in the brain.  For a person who suffers emotional pain and dysregulation, this is a tonic.  It works like a charm to make you feel better, every time.  If only temporarily.

An emotionally fragile person who fears abandonment will behave poorly when attempting intimacy.  Intimacy is not for the faint of heart.  You have to face certain cold hard realities and hold onto yourself.  Like, this person I love may leave me.  This person I love may one day cheat on me or betray me in some manner.  And this person I love will certainly one day die, maybe before I do. This is all frightening stuff.  Emotionally fragile people do not deal well with these fears.  Often, they do things to blow-up the anxiety inherent in loving someone, by doing things that blow-up the relationship.  This is how it works.  So, a person with intense fears of 'abandonment' that have not been worked through, that have not developed adult coping skills, will be more likely to cheat or engage in other destructive behaviors that blow-up intimacy, and the anxiety that goes with it will be relieved.

We are all vulnerable when we love.  Your wife is aware of that vulnerability and is using it to mess around with your emotions.  The only way to deal with that is to focus on managing your emotions in such a way that she can't get in there and mess around with you so easily.  

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Cat Familiar
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« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2015, 10:12:04 AM »

I'm sorry that you're having to deal with this.    My first BPD husband was a chronic cheater but at the same time he was very fearful of abandonment, like your wife. He seemed to think his behavior was no big deal and that I should just get over it, but it was devastating to me. He also made unpleasant comments about my appearance. He told me I was fat, when in reality, I've always been somewhat to extremely skinny. I think it was a way for him to make me feel so insecure as an insurance policy that I wouldn't find someone else.

Your question leads me to think that you're trying to make sense of her behavior, as one would expect with a normal person. I too have fallen into this trap of trying to understand why on earth they would do something that was so counterproductive, so self-destructive, so completely unimaginable to me. They are certainly wired differently than those of us who prefer to use our rational minds, our executive function. When I first joined this group, I remember a poster who said about her BPD husband that it was like having "an exotic pet." That sounds like a disparaging remark, but the way I took it, as an animal person (with horses, goats, sheep, cats) is that pwBPD can think and behave so completely different than a "non" would and that for our own peace of mind, we can imagine them as a different species, with their own ways of being, rather than to think they'd react like we would.
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« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2015, 10:14:17 AM »

I think with my exgf it was about impulse control and instant gratification.

Neither of my exs considered the consequences. It they wanted something and could get it they would.

I agree with maybeso that a quick fling isnt as emotionally intense as a relationship. Theres no fear of getting hurt.

I also agree that if they can hook up then they must be desirable so any fears of not being attractive/ desired can be allayed.
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WuTanger100
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« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2015, 10:25:48 AM »

First, Not everyone w/ BPD cheats.  

Lots of folks on here don't have this problem.  And a lot do.

In my situation, fidelity was a problem with my partner, too.

Why?

1-Devaluation; it is inherently vulnerable to love and need another individual. If I love you and you become increasingly important to me, I am more and more existentially at risk of being hurt.   If I were to devalue the individual that I love,  the anxiety inherent in loving the person immediately abates.  I don't need this person, really, anymore... .I can sooth myself because I can be with anyone I want, someone "better" (read: someone less important),  someone who makes me feel good as opposed to a partner who will without fail at times makes me feel anxious or bad (intimacy is inherently disturbing).

2-For regulation purposes; A lot of attention seeking, flirting or cheating behavior is a habitual way of regulating mood.  It feels good to engage in mating behaviors, it is designed to feel good, the chase, the score, the intensity of sex, the positive mirroring that is required of mating rituals. All of this releases extremely potent feel-good chemicals in the brain.  For a person who suffers emotional pain and dysregulation, this is a tonic.  It works like a charm to make you feel better, every time.  If only temporarily.

An emotionally fragile person who fears abandonment will behave poorly when attempting intimacy.  Intimacy is not for the faint of heart.  You have to face certain cold hard realities and hold onto yourself.  Like, this person I love may leave me.  This person I love may one day cheat on me or betray me in some manner.  And this person I love will certainly one day die, maybe before I do. This is all frightening stuff.  Emotionally fragile people do not deal well with these fears.  Often, they do things to blow-up the anxiety inherent in loving someone, by doing things that blow-up the relationship.  This is how it works.  So, a person with intense fears of 'abandonment' that have not been worked through, that have not developed adult coping skills, will be more likely to cheat or engage in other destructive behaviors that blow-up intimacy, and the anxiety that goes with it will be relieved.

We are all vulnerable when we love.  Your wife is aware of that vulnerability and is using it to mess around with your emotions.  The only way to deal with that is to focus on managing your emotions in such a way that she can't get in there and mess around with you so easily.  

Really good post. That's what I need to hear just now. I was having a hard time coming to terms with it.
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CrazyChuck
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« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2015, 11:05:11 AM »

1-Devaluation; it is inherently vulnerable to love and need another individual. If I love you and you become increasingly important to me, I am more and more existentially at risk of being hurt.   If I were to devalue the individual that I love,  the anxiety inherent in loving the person immediately abates.  I don't need this person, really, anymore... .I can sooth myself because I can be with anyone I want, someone "better" (read: someone less important),  someone who makes me feel good as opposed to a partner who will without fail at times makes me feel anxious or bad (intimacy is inherently disturbing).

2-For regulation purposes; A lot of attention seeking, flirting or cheating behavior is a habitual way of regulating mood.  It feels good to engage in mating behaviors, it is designed to feel good, the chase, the score, the intensity of sex, the positive mirroring that is required of mating rituals. All of this releases extremely potent feel-good chemicals in the brain.  For a person who suffers emotional pain and dysregulation, this is a tonic.  It works like a charm to make you feel better, every time.  If only temporarily.

This is perfect. She has said several of these things during unrelated conversations.
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Hope12345

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« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2015, 06:02:01 AM »

I really do not know why I dwell on those two bad situations. I think about them so much and it has been years. I started going to a T and she said I dwell on them because they serve a purpose. I just do not know what purpose.

You dwell on them because they have never been resolved.  Your wife is not only unremorseful for what she did but she has indicated she has no issue doing it again.  She takes no responsibility for her bad behavior and even feels it is your responsibility to keep her faithful.  You dwell because you know you have an unsafe partner.  They serve the purpose of reminding you that you have an unsafe partner.  You will continue to dwell until you feel safe again.

This is where you need to recognize the BPD behavior, but not let it be an excuse for treating you badly.  You can't change her, but you can change you.  If she can not take steps to be a safe partner to you, you need to take steps to establish boundaries, establish consequences if she crosses those boundaries, and be willing to not bend on either.

Would the person you saw yourself as before this relationship have tolerated this behavior?  Remember the old anecdote... .place a frog in boiling water and it will jump out.  Place it in cool water and heat it gradually and it fails to perceive the danger, and cooks to death.

My spouse has cheated on me more times than I care to recall, and I am still with her, so know that I am not judging you.  I just know peace comes from establishing boundaries, holding the spouse accountable, not allowing her diagnosis be an excuse for anything, and being willing to walk away from this relationship if those boundaries are ever crossed again.
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Cat Familiar
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« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2015, 11:01:35 AM »

When they cross the boundary of infidelity the first time, it's the biggest violation. Subsequent crossings become easier in their mind since they've gotten away with it already and you've stayed with them. This is what I see as my biggest mistake in my first marriage: not creating consequences after the first time.

He was very good at framing it as my fault. I was not sexy enough, not interested enough, not [fill in the blank] enough and I bought into his theories and felt the guilt and shame he had projected upon me.

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« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2015, 11:12:10 AM »

When they cross the boundary of infidelity the first time, it's the biggest violation. Subsequent crossings become easier in their mind since they've gotten away with it already and you've stayed with them. This is what I see as my biggest mistake in my first marriage: not creating consequences after the first time.

I wholeheartedly agree.  The first may be hard but without any consequences following transgressions will just get easier and easier.
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shatra
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« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2015, 11:14:58 AM »

Maybeso wrtoe--

Devaluation; it is inherently vulnerable to love and need another individual. If I love you and you become increasingly important to me, I am more and more existentially at risk of being hurt.   If I were to devalue the individual that I love,  the anxiety inherent in loving the person immediately abates.  I don't need this person, really, anymore.

---True. I wonder if this also applies to them ending the realtionship... .when they leave,, they sometimes devalue the relationship "It wasn't that serious anyway" to defend against the pain they would feel if they acknowledged that it was a valuable deep relationship?
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C.Stein
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« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2015, 11:42:03 AM »

---True. I wonder if this also applies to them ending the realtionship... .when they leave,, they sometimes devalue the relationship "It wasn't that serious anyway" to defend against the pain they would feel if they acknowledged that it was a valuable deep relationship?

Good question.  Acknowledging the loss would be reinforcing their own pain?  It is easier to completely disavow the relationship and related feelings than to face the pain and their own guilt and shame for the part they played in the destruction of the relationship?  Granted this is all speculation and every individual is different, but there certainly are some patterns to be recognized.
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Cat Familiar
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« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2015, 11:49:46 AM »

I have an interesting insight into this. When I ended my first marriage, I got into counseling and my counselor suggested that I attend a women's group that she had started.

I had been going for weeks and had formed some nice relationships with other women in the group. One night I started to talk about my soon-to-be ex-husband (the cheater). One woman started staring at me, her eyes wide open.

After the meeting, she asked me if I was married to G. and I was quite surprised and I said, "Yes, how did you know?'

It turned out that she was a friend of my husband's new girlfriend and G. was trash talking me to everyone. She said, "Now that I know you, I'm going to have to re-think all of what he said."

Some months later, after the women's group had disbanded, I ran into her. She told me that her friend and G. had broken up and now G. was trash talking her friend. 
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« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2015, 12:40:56 PM »

My boyfriend and I discussed this.

He felt I was being blaming towards him for things he was doing. So after a while he realized the gal he was working with was very self contained when he was difficult to deal with. Essentially he was hurtful to her and she didn't try to talk to him about it.

Over time I was devalued and he wanted her to be important in his life. So he could feel good about himself, he said. So he cheated on me with her. And the more upset I have become, the worse he treated me over it.

It's calmed down mostly at this point because I am not saying anything, but he continues to have contact with her and has blocked me on facebook and hidden his friends because he doesn't want me to see she is on his friends.  

Not a good way to regain trust.
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