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dacoming
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« on: November 13, 2015, 10:51:01 AM »

Does anyone deal with a BPD spouse who constantly accuses them of trying to annoy them on purpose and having every move labeled as mean or malicious?  My wife does this to me about everything and always turns into a raging incident.  Currently my wife is saying she wants a divorce again with her main reasons being the constant annoying and not always knowing what she is trying to say or not knowing what she is saying before she says it.  She keeps saying I need to change but how can you change something you are not doing?  She gets annoyed about everything literally and she magnifies things to the 10th power.  I know she expects me to try to beg her to stay for the millionth time but I'm at a loss of what to say.
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Chilibean13
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« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2015, 12:10:59 PM »

My uBPDh often claims that I am doing things on purpose to upset him. And he often gets mad that I can't read his mind. One approach I've found that seems to be working very well for me is that I ask him lots of questions.

If he accuses me of doing something on purpose, I will ask him "What specifically caused you to think I did this to hurt you?" If he is accusing me of doing something on purpose that he has accidentally done himself (such as not putting any of his work shirts in a load of laundry), I will ask him if he has ever done that thing on accident before. He will say yes and then I ask if he did it on purpose. He will then say no (or avoid the question and move on).

Only a couple of times has my H. threatened to leave. He says things about cleaning out the bank account and when he does that, I don't respond emotionally, but I always ask, "Is that what you are really going to do?" Last time he laughed and said, "No, I don't know our account number." At the same time, we have never split up before so him leaving is not something I take seriously at this time. Someone who has had that happen may have another story.
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sweetheart
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« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2015, 12:42:45 PM »

There are a variety of techniques that I use when my h is triggered by something and starts to project.

So you could try.,,,

'Im sorry you feel like this, help me understand how I'm upsetting you. I care about how you feel, so I can just sit and listen for a while, is that ok?'

Your w my have examples of things you have or haven't done, she may not, whatever with my h I validate how he feels, ' I hear you and I'm sorry you feel upset by XZY' ( note, I am not agreeing with things I haven't done, just the acknowledging the upset )

My h went through a long phase of calling me mean and a bully, he was really hurting emotionally during this time. So I had to try and think from his perspective how these accusations might feel real to him.

If my h is unreasonable, I just say, 'let's talk about this when things are a bit calmer' and go off and do something else.

Sometimes NOTHING WORKS  Being cool (click to insert in post)

Sometimes being quiet and actively listening with only non-verbal acknowledgements is good. Sometimes my h just wants to vent, as long as it's not abusive, I can manage to listen.

Dacoming I have to say what I have found most useful overall is that I really don't take my h's projections and accusations personally. Realising they coming from a place of hurt and are primarily about them has helped me to detach.

I'm not suggesting this is easy mind, but starting to work this in to your thinking will help bolster your emotional resilience.

Are there are any obvious patterns/triggers for your w?

What if anything have u found useful when she is like this?

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Inquisitive1
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« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2015, 01:27:16 PM »

Ironically, this is one of a couple of things I came here to discuss. Nice to see a thread already started on the topic of false accusations.

dacoming, you may get more helpful feedback if you provide more specific information about a give event. Then people might give specific advice. That's helped me in the past.

In the meantime you've already gotten some good advice. I especially like sweetheart's advice about realizing that the negativity is almost certainly coming from inside your BPD spouse, and trying not to take it personally.

This is something I've been struggling with lately. It seems my dBPDw has been doing a lot of interpreting every disagreement as a villanous attempt by me to hurt her.  This is wearing me down, making it hard for me to stay neutral and not react. Based on reading here, I'll try to step back and take things less personally, maybe that'll help. I'm just starting to wonder if I want to spend the rest of my life with someone who is constantly accusing me of trying to hurt her, when all I'm doing is disagreeing.
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dacoming
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« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2015, 04:12:27 PM »

There are a variety of techniques that I use when my h is triggered by something and starts to project.

So you could try.,,,

'Im sorry you feel like this, help me understand how I'm upsetting you. I care about how you feel, so I can just sit and listen for a while, is that ok?'

Your w my have examples of things you have or haven't done, she may not, whatever with my h I validate how he feels, ' I hear you and I'm sorry you feel upset by XZY' ( note, I am not agreeing with things I haven't done, just the acknowledging the upset )

My h went through a long phase of calling me mean and a bully, he was really hurting emotionally during this time. So I had to try and think from his perspective how these accusations might feel real to him.

If my h is unreasonable, I just say, 'let's talk about this when things are a bit calmer' and go off and do something else.

Sometimes NOTHING WORKS  Being cool (click to insert in post)

Sometimes being quiet and actively listening with only non-verbal acknowledgements is good. Sometimes my h just wants to vent, as long as it's not abusive, I can manage to listen.

Dacoming I have to say what I have found most useful overall is that I really don't take my h's projections and accusations personally. Realising they coming from a place of hurt and are primarily about them has helped me to detach.

I'm not suggesting this is easy mind, but starting to work this in to your thinking will help bolster your emotional resilience.

Are there are any obvious patterns/triggers for your w?

What if anything have u found useful when she is like this?

Thanks for the advice.  I am really trying to not take things personally.  I haven't found anything to be effective and there are no specific triggers.  We can be getting along good and something trivial will cause a storm.  I hate to discuss anything with her.
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dacoming
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« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2015, 04:17:08 PM »

This is something I've been struggling with lately. It seems my dBPDw has been doing a lot of interpreting every disagreement as a villanous attempt by me to hurt her.  This is wearing me down, making it hard for me to stay neutral and not react. Based on reading here, I'll try to step back and take things less personally, maybe that'll help. I'm just starting to wonder if I want to spend the rest of my life with someone who is constantly accusing me of trying to hurt her, when all I'm doing is disagreeing.

Inquisitive, we are in the same place.  I feel I'm in a relationship where I can't say what I think or feel unless it matches what she feels, even G whiz stuff.  When I disagree, she sees it as me always going against the grain or trying to be difficult.  Last weekend was horrible... .the whole weekend and it's filtered into the week to where we are contemplating divorce yet again.  I find myself counting down to bedtime every day while around her.
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Inquisitive1
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« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2015, 07:49:00 AM »

Yeah, my wife and I had a strong disagreement about some financial issues earlier this week. And I wouldn't back down. That's what got things started. I eventually found a compromise that we both find acceptable, but she's so revved up now that I don't thing there's anything I can do. For the last few days we've mostly stayed apart. When we get together, the least thing triggers her.

For example, the other day she came into the living room with me. I was playing on my phone, but put it down when she came in. She said go ahead and keep playing, so I did. Then she went out of my vision and was making some quiet grunting sounds doing something over there, but didn't seem that important, she didn't cry out or ask for help. Then she says that bug was hard to kill. Then she gets mad at me for not noticing she was killing a bug. Then she rants at me for 10 minutes creating a list of different short comings.

This sort of thing happened a couple of times a day for the last few days. When she's like this, it doesn't seem there's anything I can do. It's very difficult to validate her feelings when she's in full on attack mode. I attempt reconciliation, saying I want to make things better, to help her, but she completely rejects that.

And yes, several times she talked about divorce.

If history is any indication, at some point in the next few days things will get better, but I don't see how I can speed that along. And, I'm starting to think that eventually we may need to divorce. I'm still going to try. I need to decide if I can put up with a week or two like this every year. That in addition to the distance that has grown between us since I've become less co-dependent... .
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dacoming
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« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2015, 11:43:20 AM »

Yeah, my wife and I had a strong disagreement about some financial issues earlier this week. And I wouldn't back down. That's what got things started. I eventually found a compromise that we both find acceptable, but she's so revved up now that I don't thing there's anything I can do. For the last few days we've mostly stayed apart. When we get together, the least thing triggers her.

For example, the other day she came into the living room with me. I was playing on my phone, but put it down when she came in. She said go ahead and keep playing, so I did. Then she went out of my vision and was making some quiet grunting sounds doing something over there, but didn't seem that important, she didn't cry out or ask for help. Then she says that bug was hard to kill. Then she gets mad at me for not noticing she was killing a bug. Then she rants at me for 10 minutes creating a list of different short comings.

This sort of thing happened a couple of times a day for the last few days. When she's like this, it doesn't seem there's anything I can do. It's very difficult to validate her feelings when she's in full on attack mode. I attempt reconciliation, saying I want to make things better, to help her, but she completely rejects that.

And yes, several times she talked about divorce.

If history is any indication, at some point in the next few days things will get better, but I don't see how I can speed that along. And, I'm starting to think that eventually we may need to divorce. I'm still going to try. I need to decide if I can put up with a week or two like this every year. That in addition to the distance that has grown between us since I've become less co-dependent... .

I completely can identify with these types of disagreements and the way things go.  Soon as I woke up this morning to get ready for work, she brought up a few things back to back that we have typically disagreed on.  She expressed being upset that I didn't bring up our situation (divorce or staying) at any point during the weekend.  I did tell her I wanted to work things out but she feels I should have apologized and tried to change her mood about the divorce.  I don't feel I did anything wrong to apologize for so I really don't know what to say to make it better.  She said she is ready to leave the marriage behind because I've changed and she has no idea where the change comes from.  She said she would not have married this person I am now.  At no point has she ever validated my feelings about anything because I have tried to tell her.  She seems oblivious to it.  According to her, she's the same way she's always been and I accepted her before so I must be talking to someone else and being influenced.  The other night, she started an argument with me because I could not explain where a scratch on my shoulder came from.  I got mad because every time she sees a scratch, she wants an explanation because that must mean I've been cheating.  I refused to be baited into the argument so she got mad because I dismissed her feelings.  She then told me that she was acting jealous to make me feel good and that I should do that sometimes instead of making her feel I don't care about her.  She said she knows that inside, she knows no woman would desire me like that.
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Inquisitive1
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« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2015, 12:08:31 PM »

I sometimes apologize when i've done nothing wrong. It's contrary to the way i was raised and rubs me the wrong way, but sometimes it's easier. I do this about little things, not anything important. For example she asked me to apologize for staining the rug, I did had let it get wet, but that's not what stained it, but rather than try to explain that, I just apologized because that was a way to get us to a better place. She asked really nicely. (Still irksome, but I view it as a tactical loss for a strategic win.)

dacoming, I think you need to shift your thinking. You seem to focus on the truth or rationality of her statements. Of course many of them are not rational, that's BPD. You need to shift and focus on the feeling she is having that causes her to say these things. I highly recommend using the SET technique.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=69272.0

When she, "expressed being upset that I didn't bring up our situation (divorce or staying) at any point during the weekend."

How was she feeling? I'd guess she felt like you didn't care and were going to abandon her.

Here's an example things you might say using the SET technique.

Support: I want to help you feel better about this.

Empathy: I understand your frustrated with my lack of communication about this.

Truth: I can't change this weekend, but let's talk about it now.

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dacoming
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« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2015, 02:30:31 PM »

I sometimes apologize when i've done nothing wrong. It's contrary to the way i was raised and rubs me the wrong way, but sometimes it's easier. I do this about little things, not anything important. For example she asked me to apologize for staining the rug, I did had let it get wet, but that's not what stained it, but rather than try to explain that, I just apologized because that was a way to get us to a better place. She asked really nicely. (Still irksome, but I view it as a tactical loss for a strategic win.)

dacoming, I think you need to shift your thinking. You seem to focus on the truth or rationality of her statements. Of course many of them are not rational, that's BPD. You need to shift and focus on the feeling she is having that causes her to say these things. I highly recommend using the SET technique.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=69272.0

When she, "expressed being upset that I didn't bring up our situation (divorce or staying) at any point during the weekend."

How was she feeling? I'd guess she felt like you didn't care and were going to abandon her.

Here's an example things you might say using the SET technique.

Support: I want to help you feel better about this.

Empathy: I understand your frustrated with my lack of communication about this.

Truth: I can't change this weekend, but let's talk about it now.

That's a great way to respond, I will give it a try and let you know what happened.  Thanks!
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Inquisitive1
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« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2015, 03:35:00 PM »

I'm glad that was helpful. I had to learn the exact same lessons. I tend to view things through the lens of logic, but when dealing with BPD you've got to use the lens of emotions.

Someone posted a SET example for me just like that back this summer and it was super helpful. I had people do that a couple of times.

I hadn't posted for a while. I slowly forgot about focusing on the emotion and cause of emotion, instead I was reverting to a straight, factual interpretation of my wife's outbursts, which increased friction between us. Needed a booster shot and came back here.

Not that everything is perfect, I'm still not sure exactly where I'm going, but at least the journey can be a bit more pleasant as i work through it.

I'm still trying to figure out how to deal with her frequent complaining about work, allergies, many things... .The negativity. If she could just let go of that, life would be better, but she probably never will.
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dacoming
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« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2015, 02:11:15 PM »

I'm glad that was helpful. I had to learn the exact same lessons. I tend to view things through the lens of logic, but when dealing with BPD you've got to use the lens of emotions.

Someone posted a SET example for me just like that back this summer and it was super helpful. I had people do that a couple of times.

I hadn't posted for a while. I slowly forgot about focusing on the emotion and cause of emotion, instead I was reverting to a straight, factual interpretation of my wife's outbursts, which increased friction between us. Needed a booster shot and came back here.

Not that everything is perfect, I'm still not sure exactly where I'm going, but at least the journey can be a bit more pleasant as i work through it.

I'm still trying to figure out how to deal with her frequent complaining about work, allergies, many things... .The negativity. If she could just let go of that, life would be better, but she probably never will.

Well I did what you said and we didn't have an argument when I got home so that's great, thanks again!  However, we got into it again this morning because she has been pressuring me to move to CA for "health reasons."  She is from there.  We just moved here last year after she gave me the ok to take a job here.  I retired from the military and left it up to her where we moved to with the understanding that we would not be moving again.  The big thing is we promised our 17 year old son he would not have to switch schools again; he has social anxiety issues and it takes him a while to adjust.  Less than 6 months after we moved here, she started looking for reasons to move to CA: she hates the storms,  gekkos are getting into the house, she hates it here... .now she needs to go to CA because medical marijuana is legal and the medicines/doctors are not helping her.  I have a great government job here and told her I'd have to get another one out there for me to consider moving.  This morning I said this is the slow time for gov jobs because it's figuring out the budget time of year.  She said she will have to go without me because I don't care about her or her health and blamed me for the lack of trust she feels that makes her want to leave.  I'm tired of being blamed for everything when I'm not doing anything to cause distrust.  I told her that she is looking for excuses to move and that's a big burden to place on me to expect me to try to sell the house, get everything moved out to CA to include shipping 2 cars (nobody in the house will help drive when we move to different states) on my dime.  She doesn't work and doesn't seem to care what has to happen... .
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formflier
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« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2015, 06:41:13 PM »

 

Simpler is better...

"We are not able to move at this time... "

Perhaps it is better to make it about you...

"I'm not able to move at this time... "

If she presses to continue a discussion... .a gentler reminder about the previous agreement and conditions "that haven't changed for you"

Ff
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Inquisitive1
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« Reply #13 on: November 19, 2015, 09:59:44 AM »

I agree with FormFlier that you need to communicate a clear boundary here. You are not going to move at this time.

My wife periodically talks about wanting to move. I tend to respond by telling her she'd have to find a well paying job for me or her before I could consider it. I've had fights about this, but I keep a firm line about it because it really isn't negotiable. There's that old saying, "It's gonna get worse before it gets better". I think that applies to setting boundaries with BPD spouses. At first they'll rage against the boundary, to see if they move it, that approach has worked for them in the past. But, if you stand firm, over time, they'll learn you aren't moving, and things may settle down on that front. It could take a while.

My wife has been talking about moving for years now. She still brings it up from time-to-time and says she might have to leave me and move the where ever. I just acknowledge that and say, I'm gonna stay for my job and our financial security. at least now it doesn't spin up into a huge drama.

I think you can expect a lot of negativity coming your way at first, but if you maintain a firm boundary and stay calm, I wouldn't be surprised if she eventually settles down.

At times, I think my wife wants to move because she mistakenly thinks moving will solve her problems and be able to start fresh. When, really, she'll just be the same person, with the same problems in a new place. I don't discuss this side of things with her.

I've come to think that much of the time when my wife talks about leaving me, she's feeling frustrated and concerned I'll leave her. So, if I express that I don't want to leave her, even though she's so aggravating I often think of leaving her, but if I tell her at those times I won't leave her and I want to take care of her, I think this may help her calm down. Not right away, but after a while.

You might try some SET for her specific complaints.

The truth might include the idea that you want to take care of her, and the best way for you to do that is to keep the great job you currently have. Again, this may not provide immediate benefits, but as she thinks about it, hours later, it may help.
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dacoming
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« Reply #14 on: November 19, 2015, 11:51:59 AM »

You guys are right.  I cannot in good conscience make that kind of move.  In addition, we'd be moving to a much more expensive area.  We are barely getting by here.  She says we can just sell the stuff we have here and use the money to buy new stuff there.  How irrational is that?  We'd have to start over while there are still things we need now.  Her thinking in regards to money is no better than the kids.
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dacoming
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« Reply #15 on: November 19, 2015, 12:27:51 PM »

She just brought it up over the phone again, talking about her health and how she hates we came here.  She then said how she came here because she was just so proud of me and my accomplishments that she wanted to go where I thought was right and wanted to be.  She loved me and feels you should make sacrifices for the one you love.  Of course, she is setting me up to feel bad if I say we cannot move... .
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« Reply #16 on: November 19, 2015, 01:37:38 PM »

  Great, express that you do feel bad for it.  Then figure out what to have for dinner.                                        

FF
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dacoming
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« Reply #17 on: November 19, 2015, 03:55:03 PM »

Great, express that you do feel bad for it.  Then figure out what to have for dinner.  

FF

Lol!
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Inquisitive1
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« Reply #18 on: November 20, 2015, 11:33:16 AM »

That is pretty hilarious FF. Hilarious because it holds truth. Sometimes that's just how you have to roll with a BPD spouse. Sorry you're feeling bad, now let's get on with living. If I engaged deeply with every complaint my BPDw throws at me, dinner might never be cooked. Kids might never get to practice. Bills might never be paid.
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