I could really use some help with validation

[Depression = 72% of members]

Let me just say that since discovering this page, reading the lessons, and trying to apply them to my relationship, things seem to be a little better.  She's a few weeks into DBT now so that could be helping too.  There are still issues from time to time but they seem a little less frequent now. 

I'm really trying to get this validation thing down pat, but I'm having a hard time.  Sometimes I am frustrated, angry, or stressed out by things in my life that don't even involve my GF.  For example, having a long hard day at work, money issues, etc.  I know visibly showing my frustrations is a trigger for her.  When I'm having one of those days, I feel like I just want to avoid her until I'm in a better mindset, but how can I do that without her feeling abandoned?  It's extremely difficult for me to try to validate her emotions when I have my own to deal with. 

Another problem I'm having is how to validate things that simply aren't true or are just plain irrational.  When I've tried in the past, she just thinks I am mocking her and not taking her seriously.  I will give some specific examples.  She'll get depressed and make statements like "You don't even love me, no one likes me, I'm so ugly, I should just die... ."  All these statements are so untrue.  I love her, she has plenty of friends, and she is beautiful. 

But if I tell her those things, I'm just invalidating her feelings then right?  I know validation isn't the same as agreeing, but how do I validate things that are just plain nonsense?   

[Jungle_jake]

Let me just say that since discovering this page, reading the lessons, and trying to apply them to my relationship, things seem to be a little better.  She's a few weeks into DBT now so that could be helping too.  There are still issues from time to time but they seem a little less frequent now. 

I'm really trying to get this validation thing down pat, but I'm having a hard time.  Sometimes I am frustrated, angry, or stressed out by things in my life that don't even involve my GF.  For example, having a long hard day at work, money issues, etc.  I know visibly showing my frustrations is a trigger for her.  When I'm having one of those days, I feel like I just want to avoid her until I'm in a better mindset, but how can I do that without her feeling abandoned?  It's extremely difficult for me to try to validate her emotions when I have my own to deal with. 

Another problem I'm having is how to validate things that simply aren't true or are just plain irrational.  When I've tried in the past, she just thinks I am mocking her and not taking her seriously.  I will give some specific examples.  She'll get depressed and make statements like "You don't even love me, no one likes me, I'm so ugly, I should just die... ."  All these statements are so untrue.  I love her, she has plenty of friends, and she is beautiful. 

But if I tell her those things, I'm just invalidating her feelings then right?  I know validation isn't the same as agreeing, but how do I validate things that are just plain nonsense?   

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[ArleighBurke]

"Jake": Have you read the lessons on this board for validation? They are quite detailed.

You are validating her FEELING, not the logic of how she got there.

To look at your example, I try to remember that her FEELINGS are not logic based. And are probably not controllable. I like to rephrase what she says to me as "even though I know it's silly, and if I though about it for 2 seconds I would disagree with it, my messed up body is flooding my brain with feelings of not being loved, and being ugly. I hate it! Help!"

My response is therefore NOT to point out the logic - it is to try to see how that must feel. "That must feel horrible. To be married and feel unloved. I can imagine if I felt unloved and ugly I would want to curl up and die. Come and cuddle me".

That would hopefully make her feel heard. Of course she may then go on to blame you for making her feel that way because you didn't put the toothpaste lid back on or something, again you are ignoring her logic flow and focussing on how she feels. Her feeling is real.

[babyducks]

  I will give some specific examples.  She'll get depressed and make statements like "You don't even love me, no one likes me, I'm so ugly, I should just die... ."  All these statements are so untrue.  I love her, she has plenty of friends, and she is beautiful. 

But if I tell her those things, I'm just invalidating her feelings then right?  I know validation isn't the same as agreeing, but how do I validate things that are just plain nonsense?   

Yup, telling her you love her, she is beautiful and she has plenty of friends is invalidating.   It's not nonsense to her.  She is feeling those things and feeling them acutely.   Doesn't matter if depression is causing them, or the BPD is causing them, at that moment she is conveying an emotion.   and frequently, emotions don't make a bunch of logical sense.

I've been depressed, I know that feels.   so I can empathize a little bit while validating.

Her: "You don't even love me, no one likes me, I'm so ugly, I should just die... ." 

Me: "#$% don't you hate it when something puts you in a tailspin like that,... .it feels horrible".

Her:  "you don't know,... .you don't know what I am feeling."

Me: "you're right, I don't know what's happening now, I can only relate to what I've felt before, do you want to tell me about it?"

Her: "so and so refused to answer my question at work so I know it means she hates me"

Me:  "It is hard when someone is rude to you. sometimes it just lands the wrong way and makes a body feel bad, is that what is happening now?"

Her: "no, because when I came how you didn't greet me at the door with a hug and I have told you and told you I need a hug when I walk in the door."

Me:  "sometimes things pile up during the course of a day and one more thing is just hard to deal with, especially when we are tired or already bothered, do you want to start over ? or do you want take a break and talk again later."

for me part of validating is asking questions, do you want to or would you rather?   the simple trick about validation is to find the one thing in there that you can relate to ... .the one thing that you have experienced or does make sense to you or you can see from her point of view.   

here is the link that ArleighBurke was talking about.

Validation and BPD

[Jungle_jake]

Thank you!  Those are the kinds of ideas I was looking for.  However, I find when I try asking questions she has a hard time answering me.  Or I try validating how she is feeling, and ask why she is feeling that way, I just get "Everything" as an answer.  Typical conversation:

Her: "Ugh, I just feel so irritated!"

Me: ":)amn, I know that really sucks to feel that way"

Her: "No you don't know.  You don't ever take me seriously"

Me: "What is making you feel irritated?"

Her: "Everything"

Me: "Okay, is there anything specific that's going on to make you feel that way?"

Her: "I can't even talk to you about it.  I don't trust anyone.  I just feel so lonely"

Me: "Is there anything I can do for you?"

Her: "Just nevermind.  I'm fine"

And then it's all downhill from there.  She'll bottle it up and explode at some point.  I feel like she just expects me to know what to do without telling me what the problem is.  I'm not a mind reader. 

[babyducks]

Thank you!  Those are the kinds of ideas I was looking for.  However, I find when I try asking questions she has a hard time answering me.  Or I try validating how she is feeling, and ask why she is feeling that way, I just get "Everything" as an answer.  Typical conversation:

Her: "Ugh, I just feel so irritated!"

Me: ":)amn, I know that really sucks to feel that way"

Her: "No you don't know.  You don't ever take me seriously"

Me: "What is making you feel irritated?"

Her: "Everything"

Me: "Okay, is there anything specific that's going on to make you feel that way?"

Her: "I can't even talk to you about it.  I don't trust anyone.  I just feel so lonely"

Me: "Is there anything I can do for you?"

Her: "Just nevermind.  I'm fine"

And then it's all downhill from there.  She'll bottle it up and explode at some point.  I feel like she just expects me to know what to do without telling me what the problem is.  I'm not a mind reader. 

how about a couple of little tweaks.

Her: "Ugh, I just feel so irritated!"

be careful of your "I's" and "You's",   flip them if you can.

You: You do look irritated, what's going on?

Her: " You don't ever take me seriously"

You:  It's interesting you mention that, did something happen this morning that is bothering you?

Open ended questions almost never get an answer,  try for an either/or type question.   Yes/No questions, something specific.   Did something happen this morning,   did the movie upset you?   

Her: "I can't even talk to you about it.  I don't trust anyone.  I just feel so lonely"

You:  Your right it can feel lonely when it's hard to talk to someone.   Would you like to sit on the sofa together for a while and see if it gets easier to talk or would you rather go for a walk.


make sense?

[an0ught]

Hi Jungle Jake

Let me just say that since discovering this page, reading the lessons, and trying to apply them to my relationship, things seem to be a little better.  She's a few weeks into DBT now so that could be helping too.  There are still issues from time to time but they seem a little less frequent now. 

Good to hear! Often the early days are associated with deterioration as the newly found insights are used to play games. Sounds like you are getting off easy on that front Your effort to build skills probably makes a lot of difference. 

I'm really trying to get this validation thing down pat, but I'm having a hard time.  Sometimes I am frustrated, angry, or stressed out by things in my life that don't even involve my GF.  For example, having a long hard day at work, money issues, etc.  I know visibly showing my frustrations is a trigger for her.  When I'm having one of those days, I feel like I just want to avoid her until I'm in a better mindset, but how can I do that without her feeling abandoned?  It's extremely difficult for me to try to validate her emotions when I have my own to deal with. 

This is a tricky thing. You don't want your emotions spilling over to her but hiding and bottling them us is not good either. This is not saying you should not hide anything - what you can hide where it does not trigger her hide it. Process it yourself by your own at your own time. There is real value in reducing the frequency of triggers! But some things are just upsetting and are hard to hide. And no matter how much you try it affects you in many ways. Then you are prone to giving off mixed signals and that is confusing to the people around you. In this case remember that you don't want to trigger her often but you can't avoid it once in a while. And maybe this is the once in a while. In any case it may be unavoidable. Best is then to confront the situation that you are upset and share it via S.E.T. with T being your own emotions. Done properly you may not even trigger her.

Another problem I'm having is how to validate things that simply aren't true or are just plain irrational.  When I've tried in the past, she just thinks I am mocking her and not taking her seriously.  I will give some specific examples.  She'll get depressed and make statements like "You don't even love me, no one likes me, I'm so ugly, I should just die... ."  All these statements are so untrue.  I love her, she has plenty of friends, and she is beautiful. 

But if I tell her those things, I'm just invalidating her feelings then right?  I know validation isn't the same as agreeing, but how do I validate things that are just plain nonsense?   

Sometimes one can take a dialectical point of view. Right now you believe X and I believe Y. That is ok, maybe we will learn or think differently at another time.I don't have the time to come to a common point right now.

[Chilibean13]

Another problem I'm having is how to validate things that simply aren't true or are just plain irrational.  When I've tried in the past, she just thinks I am mocking her and not taking her seriously.  I will give some specific examples.  She'll get depressed and make statements like "You don't even love me, no one likes me, I'm so ugly, I should just die... ."  All these statements are so untrue.  I love her, she has plenty of friends, and she is beautiful. 

But if I tell her those things, I'm just invalidating her feelings then right?  I know validation isn't the same as agreeing, but how do I validate things that are just plain nonsense?   

Validation can be hard, especially when you are frustrated, tired, or just plain don't want to deal with it because you have other stuff going on. One thing I have to remind myself of when my H. pulls out some completely irrational argument is that to him, it is real. He is having a strong emotion and he cannot understand in that moment that the emotion is temporary and that he will not always feel that way. Sometimes even finding out what the emotion is is hard because what he says makes no sense whatsoever.

For instance, this week my H began accusing me of wanting to cheat on him after his weed dealer hadn't returned his text for 2 days. I did not understand where this came from and while he began to work himself up to dysregulate I was racking my brain for what caused this outburst. Then it hit me. He felt rejection from his friend/dealer and because he could not (nor would he) take it out on his friend, he projected the rejection on me.

[Anise]

It can be hard sometimes.  We got into an argument last week where he accused me of abandoning him (well I am moving out, so I can see very clearly why he feels this way).  I tried to validate his feelings, and he threw it back in my face by saying that was what our old/former therapist told me to say.  I tried to explain that no, I really did understand his feelings and where they were coming from, but it just fueled his rage even more, which made me defensive and upset, etc.

We saw a new therapist this week, and my husband divulged later that he was considering seeing the new therapist on his own (completely without prompting by me), so maybe there is hope in the relationship left.  The new therapist is not thrilled that I am moving out, and asked me if I'm emotionally divorced from the relationship.  Well, I don't know. I'm exhausted from being scared at home, I'm exhausted of being an appendage to his life.  I deserve better!  But I do believe on a many levels that getting divorced doesn't really solve our problems.  So if I see that my husband is trying to grow and improve his behavior, then I will support him in that.  I am planning on using the separation as a time to get back to being me, and to work on myself and what got me into this situation.

I don't know if our marriage can be saved. I would really love it if it could be saved, but I don't have the relationship skills or the cool head I need to be around my husband 100% of the time right now.  And he obviously has many behaviors that are not conducive to being in a healthy relationship.  Maybe he was not being serious with me about seeing the new therapist on his own, but I do have a feeling he was.

[formflier]

 If you get stuck and don't know how to validate, perhaps shifting your thinking to making sure that you "hear" her will soften things. I think you are on the right track. I still struggle with validation, probably always will.  The effort it worth it.                            

FF