Best way to go no contact when kids are involved

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I've got a son with my BPD ex girlfriend and my story is very similar to a lot of stories on here. From the stages from idolizing to demonizing. It's been an uphill battle but I am not a saint. During the times when she should go on her tyrade I would react, (my defense mechanism) and I most likely triggered more of her fears. Her and I have been officially split up since my son was 3 weeks old. He is now 21 months, but her and I would still go on trips with the kids(she has  2 from two other previous) yes I know(red flag) I would stay at her place and sometimes she would stay at my place. But we weren't intimate, I wanted to be but she would not want me to touch her, unless she felt I was pulling away and on a few occasions we would be. My problem is this, i still love this woman, I love her kids and they love me but I am split black right now, probably more so then I've  ever  been, for the past month. I know that I need to give her her space and I'm pretty sure she's talking to other men, not sure how far things have gone but that doesn't matter. I know that I need to work on me, stay focused for our son but I get weak when I see her,i just want my family back.

What is the best way to go about this. I turned to alcohol and cocaine before my son was born to cope with the lows but I refuse to do that again, I'm a stronger man then I was then, but how can I do NC when we have to exchange our son at least 4 days a week. It kills me to see her.

[luckycharm224]

I've got a son with my BPD ex girlfriend and my story is very similar to a lot of stories on here. From the stages from idolizing to demonizing. It's been an uphill battle but I am not a saint. During the times when she should go on her tyrade I would react, (my defense mechanism) and I most likely triggered more of her fears. Her and I have been officially split up since my son was 3 weeks old. He is now 21 months, but her and I would still go on trips with the kids(she has  2 from two other previous) yes I know(red flag) I would stay at her place and sometimes she would stay at my place. But we weren't intimate, I wanted to be but she would not want me to touch her, unless she felt I was pulling away and on a few occasions we would be. My problem is this, i still love this woman, I love her kids and they love me but I am split black right now, probably more so then I've  ever  been, for the past month. I know that I need to give her her space and I'm pretty sure she's talking to other men, not sure how far things have gone but that doesn't matter. I know that I need to work on me, stay focused for our son but I get weak when I see her,i just want my family back.

What is the best way to go about this. I turned to alcohol and cocaine before my son was born to cope with the lows but I refuse to do that again, I'm a stronger man then I was then, but how can I do NC when we have to exchange our son at least 4 days a week. It kills me to see her.

[ArleighBurke]

My non-BPD sister-in-law has a son to a failed marriage after her ex-husband assaulted her. Even with a domestic violence restraining order against him, they manage.

In Australia, the government has a website system to manage all contact between parents. All emails are logged in this system for full traceability. All visitation times are logged etc. She conducts handovers at a police station (the dad brings the child in the front door - child goes alone into the next room to see mom - mum and child leave through the back door. No contact!)

You probably don't have to be so extreme - but I would suggest:

1. Formal custody arrangements (court ordered preferably). Having the times listed means less negotiation and she can't deny she didn't know.

2. Contact is through something recordable - probably email.  Again, to provide proof.

3. Contact is brief - just about visitation and the child.

4. When with your son - try to be alone. Take him out for a walk - park - playground etc.

5. If she ever isn't there when arranged, document it. You may need it later in court.

6. Accept she will probably try to push your buttons. Probably try to change times last minute, may accuse you of stuff. Keep your cool. Play the long game (accept that losing a single battle may help you win the war). Document everything.

7. Accept she MAY tell your son stuff to bait you, or get you in trouble. Again, document it all. Hopefully if you ever go to court over an allagation of anything, or over custody, your years of records will prove a history.

Hope this helps.

[OutOfEgypt]

Hey man,

Sorry you're going through this.  I've been there.  My teenager is now going through it -where contact with uBPD mom is difficult because of the temptation to "let her back in".  She prefers to just have no contact with her mom, even though we do what we can to encourage it in healthy ways.

Here's the sad reality of it that some (perhaps in the "Staying" board) may not agree with:  there is no "family" to get back.  There were some good times, I'm certain, but the idea of having your family back is largely fantasy.  Why?  Because they can't really maintain close relationships without destroying them.  I don't know how to put it more simply.  Or I can put it another way, the longer it takes you to get this, deep down, the longer you will suffer horribly.  I knew there was something wrong early on in my marriage to my now ex uBPDw.  But I listened to her blame it all on me, and I wanted my family to remain in tact so badly that I carried the burden of all of it, and all the cheating and abuse, and her reeling me back in for attention whenever she feels like it, for about 15 years.  I lost myself.  I remember thinking that it wouldn't matter that much because I had done it for so long, but I'd had to overcome some pretty significant damage.  The longer you expose yourself to it *does* matter.  And now, I still share children with my ex, and she is the bane of our existence (our children, myself, my new wife, and our family together).  But, we have made some significant moves that have improved things tremendously.

So, what can you do?

Well, I am remarried, so I have a partner to help share the burden.  It doesn't sound like you do, so I cannot suggest that your new partner be the contact person.  My wife does that for me and, even though she doesn't like it, it works.  My ex likes my wife, or at least pretends to.  But I'm also not at the same place you are because I have zero desire toward my ex wife.

The big thing you have to remember is that BPD's are used to controlling all the interactions.  Everything is on their terms.  They hate it when you start to take your life back.  So, a big part of what you can do is be firm (especially with yourself) about building some structure around your interactions.  She will fight, she will blame and guilt you, so that you re-engage her, she will act like the lonely, sad victim who need sympathy for the latest crisis in her life ("boo hoo... .be my shoulder to cry on", and she may even try to seduce you... .all because she cannot stand that you are no longer a constant open door for her to walk in and out of, to get her attention supply or to punish, whenever she wants.  And it will be hard, but you've got to start making this change.  

For example, no more phone calls and no more sleep-overs.  BPDs, like my ex (and sounds like yours too), like to have their cake and eat it, too.  They get to paint you black, or throw you in the trash, but then pull you out whenever they want you.  You exist as an object to them.  So, why play into that?  It won't change her.  It won't make her love you.  I know you probably feel a lot of resistance inside, "But if I don't play into it, if I say "No" to her, then I'll lose her... .or she'll hurt me by taking my child away."  That's because she uses fear, among other things, to manipulate.  But she'll do it anyway.  She doesn't need a reason.  And as far as losing her goes... .you never had her.  Nobody does.  She's broken, and she'll keep doing it to you forever if you let her.

So, you start limiting the contact.  You limit the means, such as only text messages or emails, and you limit the duration and time.  For example, don't jump at your phone every time she calls or texts.  Make a time for yourself when you will reply.  Allow yourself to reply at 10am and 8pm each day, and that's it. You can also limit the where, if you have to meet in person.  Maybe you need to make it a public place, or maybe just in the driveway to drop-off or pick-up rather than camping trips and sleep-overs.  In general, you'll want to keep responses non-emotional.  :)on't talk about personal stuff.  Think of a reason why you suddenly have to go, and GO.  End conversations when she starts talking about personal stuff.  This is about your son, not about the latest drama in her life.  :)on't let her suck you back in.

If she calls, don't answer.  Text her back later.  She may start demanding an explanation, but you don't have to give one.  You can say that you've been more busy and want to keep this about your son.  You can just say that you think it is best.  But you don't really need to explain anything to her at all.  Isn't she painting you black, right now?  And when has she ever given a legitimate explanation for any of her behavior?  Pfffft.  So, why should you do all the explaining?  You don't need to.  You're just busy.  You just think this is best.  You're just making some important changes in your life, and while you son is an essential part of your life, your relationship with mom isn't priority anymore, but you wish her well and know that you both can make this work for your son.  Period.

So, overall, most of the things you can do revolve around limiting your behavior, not hers.  You limit how and when you communicate with her.  You don't let her into your house.  You don't go into her house anymore.  Things like that.  But again, be prepared for the backlash in the form of seduction, anger, guilt-tripping, or manipulation.

Another thing you can do is involve a third-party.  For example, do you have a sibling or someone "neutral" that your ex can tolerate dealing with?  Preferably a woman?  That may be hard to come by, but this is serious business so if you think of anyone, maybe talk to them about it to get their thoughts.  That would definitely set your ex off, but it would calm down.  They always do.  Their temper tantrums are usually only momentary.

I agree with ArleighBurke about keeping time with your son to just you and him, or at least not with mommy there.  This has to become a pattern *now* so that it won't be strange for your son later.  Your son needs at least one sane, stable person in his life, and it's not going to be mom so it has to be you.  Seriously, let that motivate you to cut your emotional addiction to this person and lay down some stable foundation in your life.  He needs you, badly.  So you need to start laying down a pattern of stable, quality time where you and mom are separate.  That will give him a healthy attachment, which he won't get from her, and it will protect him from future confusion as mom and dad get back together, break up, get back together, break up, forever and ever.  Bad for the kiddo.

[enlighten me]

Hi Lucky

Im in the same boat and let me assure you it does get better. In a way seeing them makes you less sensitive to them. You still have to get over the initial hurt though.

[luckycharm224]

Out of Egypt, that my friend is great advice, thank you for that. It is hard, my mom is actively staying with  me over the holidays. So I'm having her help me. And my mom is going out to the car when she gets to my house to drop him off and the other the other day she asked my mom if I sent her out to give her the baby and then said " why does he have to be like that, he's so childish" and this morning she called me and I didn't answer and she just showed up while I was in the garage getting ready for work and asked if she could see the baby for a minute and she had something for him. I calmly said no,i don't think it's a good idea and she could see him later after I leave. She had first rights to watch him if I can't.

[OutOfEgypt]

Keep up the good work.  It is hard.  I know you have feelings for her, but sticking with it (no matter how ridiculous they claim you are being) is so good and so worth it.  I'm glad your mom is there to help you.  In time, it will become easier and more business-like.  There will still be a temptation to get sucked in emotionally, even if just to be annoyed with them or furious with them, but you just have to resist it and stick to the ground-rules you set up for yourself.  They really help.  It gets easier.  And having the help of a third-person really helps take the "dread" out of the interactions.