She had a performance evaluation

[maxsterling]

W was observed in the classroom last week as part of a performance evaluation.  W admits it went horribly.  Yesterday, she was given the results of the evaluation.  The principal then used the same time to discuss other areas of concern. 

As you can guess, the "other areas of concern" meant "typical BPD behaviors".  The principal had a 3-page list of specific things that she wanted W to sign.  Sounds to me like the principal wanted to put all this in writing to cover her ass.  W said she started crying and getting defensive in the meeting.  Yikes. 

Among the list were things like blaming or pointing fingers at others, being difficult to communicate with, and not minding her business. 

This doesn't look good.  She's a teacher and is under contract, so they can't just fire her.  But making her sign something in writing saying this was discussed is probably a first step.  W seemed confused about all this when she talked to me about it, blaming others for how horrible her job is, and then contemplating whether other people are misunderstanding her. 

The positives out of all this -

- she didn't quit.  She's back at work today.

- I didn't change my plans yesterday evening because of her bad day.

- I listened to her complain and did my best to validate without offering any advice (even when asked), didn't try to fix or take on her problem.  I just listened (and that was exhausting enough).

- She at least expressed a little bit that it may be a problem with her.  Although, she talked about it as people misunderstanding her tone and intent, but I think they *are* understanding her intent, it's just that she is justifying a hostile intent as innocent.  For example, when she brings up complaints about another teacher's behavior - yes, they are valid concerns.  But deep inside, W really wants the other teacher to get in trouble, and that shows in her very long-winded complaints.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Notwendy]

Max, it is good that your wife is owning some of these behaviors and that she went to work today and did not just quit.

IMHO, I think your biggest challenge will be to not step in as rescuer, to be able to tolerate your wife feeling badly about this, and not step in to soothe her.

This, would be co-dependent behavior because, it would be self serving. It would ease your discomfort of seeing her in distress. It would be a chance for you to step in as a hero, good guy, rescuer- do the nice thing, because, well you are a nice person.

Taking a long distance objective look at this may be to see that - letting your wife be responsible for the future of her job, or another job, and for her feelings, her behavior, and the consequence of that behavior may be an important learning experience for her. If you intervene in any of this, you will rob her of learning from experience. It may make you feel better, and her feel better in the moment, but it will keep her in an in a powerless and helpless mode because she will not have the chance to learn from her behavior or gain the skills to manage it if you do it for her.


Doing what is best for your wife in this situation may not feel like being the good guy to you.

[maxsterling]

IMHO, I think your biggest challenge will be to not step in as rescuer, to be able to tolerate your wife feeling badly about this, and not step in to soothe her.

I agree with your reply, 100%.  The reality here is, I *can't* step into that role - I don't have any energy left for that.  And even more difficult, will be to step out of even thinking about it.  It's completely out of my control, yet the outcome of her job could affect me.  How do I stay going about my business and not let potential outcomes related to her job affect my well being?  Here I am, already thinking about it.  Realistically, I know that her meeting and evaluation yesterday are a bad thing for her job.,  Making her sign some kind of document like that tells me they are contemplating breaking her contract.  Or, at least the chance for her getting a contract renewed are extremely small unless she makes big changes.  And since we are somewhat dependent on her having an income right now - it's difficult for me to not worry about that and just go about my business of maintaining the household the best I can.

[Grey Kitty]

Hey Max, I think this is a reasonably good sign for your wife--she certainly is responding far better to something this tough than she used to.

What you did (not rescuing, and self-care) sounds great. AWESOME WORK, my friend!

*IF* she does come to you, sounding like she is sincerely looking for help and assistance/ideas on how to deal with this, I've got a constructive one for you. Please hold it in your back pocket in case she does come to you sounding receptive, instead of trying to sell her on it.

Approach her principal about this issue, saying she recognizes she has things she needs to work on, and she does need help. Ask the principal for any resources that could help her do better in the classroom. (i.e. acknowledge that both she and the principal are on the same team--both want her to do a good job with the students.)

This would obviously take a lot of vulnerability on her part, and she's gonna have to dig really deep to find the strength to do that.

she talked about it as people misunderstanding her tone and intent, but I think they *are* understanding her intent, it's just that she is justifying a hostile intent as innocent.

GACK, that "misunderstanding" thing. I know it all to well. My stbexW once described to me the "I'm not doing anything wrong" game. She was self-aware enough that I even used the phrase with her at times.

When she was in 7th grade, something about another girl bugged her. She never told me what started it. But she just stared at that girl for the whole class, seeing the girl getting more upset. At the end of the class, the girl confronted her and started a fight. StbexW didn't fight back, and when they were both in the principal's office, she insisted that she didn't do anything wrong.

Now it is a bit more subtle, and I never saw a fistfight result, but stbexW did this all the time, both with me and with others upon occasion.

It involves a self-righteously indignant insistence that what she did was harmless, despite the fact that it was intended to hurt/get under the skin of the other person. The second part is a double-serving of invalidation--not only did I hurt you, there is something wrong with you for feeling hurt about it. Grrrrrrrrr!

It must be clear that I'm still sensitive to that game.

[Cat Familiar]

I don't know how one sets about to "not worry" about some likely future outcome, other than remaining in the present diligently.

I'm glad that your wife is doing better. And you have made great progress working you way out of codependency.  

It will be what it will be. I know that's no comfort, but you can only do so much and now is time to take care of Max.  

[Notwendy]

I think it is inevitable that our spouse's issues concern and affect us.

Our challenge is to not step in and rescue ourselves from their discomfort. It isn't easy to step back and let them manage themselves, especially when it affects us. But if we look at the temptation to be the "good guy" and help, we may see that it is self serving, and not in their best interest.

What's in their best interest- to learn to manage on their own, may not feel comfortable to us, but we have to manage our own discomfort.

[maxsterling]

I think to some extent, all of us naturally try to justify bad things as the fault of others, at least in our own minds.  But when those things happen over and over again... .

W had her mind made up about this other teacher she has issues with after one meeting.  W rants about her every night to me and has labeled her a B and a C. From what I have seen, W decides she hates others long before those other people decide to give up on W.  I haven't seen this "list", but I am willing to bet there isn't a single thing on there that isn't true.  But from my wife's perspective, it is only her trying to get her needs met, not manipulation, finger pointing, or anything malicious. 

The reality of life is, people are generally more well liked if they are hard working, self sufficient, soft spoken, and willing to listen and compromise.  People who are loud, needy, complain, or pushy are generally avoided by most.  As he saying goes "nobody likes a complainer". 

I think my wife knows she is a complainer.  But her lack of connection between that behavior and her struggles at work (or in other relationships) is hard to understand.  I'm wondering if it is a lack of connection, an inability to make changes, or is it just excuse making in order to not have to change. 

[Notwendy]

I think people may wish to blame others, but the tendency for pw BPD to project- and not look inward is different. I think what is at play is toxic shame, a poor sense of self, and black and white thinking.  While it can be devastating to someone to lose a job, to someone with BPD it would feel annihilating. To them, they didn't fail, they are a failure. And the tendency to catastrophize- "everyone hates them".

Will they ever consider that they are the cause or at least have some responsibility for their circumstances? I don't know. I know of someone who is always blaming others and doesn't seem to get that her behavior is the common denominator.  I think this person has BPD. I know that my mother is aware that she mistreated me as a child. She has sort of apologized for it. I take this as a big step for her. However, she can't fully say it. I think it would feel too shaming.

You are correct, people like hard working easy to get along with employees and co-workers. I hope your wife will try to improve her behavior at work.

[Cat Familiar]

I agree with Notwendy about the difficulty of looking inward for pwBPD. My husband is really high functioning most of the time, but sometimes he'll ask me about some interaction he had with someone which troubled him. I'll ask him to put himself in their shoes and I'll get an absolutely blank stare. It amazes me. At first, I thought he was just unwilling. Now I think he's really incapable of doing that when his emotions are tweaked. It's really like he cannot imagine how someone else might feel or how they might see the situation.

The first time I observed this it was about a family dynamic with his sister nearly 11 years ago. I tried to imagine it from her perspective and gave him my overview, that she wasn't being critical or neglectful of him, it's just that she was busy with her kids. (I know my response was invalidating, but this was before I knew about BPD.) His response was anger: "You're always taking her side." That was very weird to me because I had just met his sister maybe a day before. I tried further to get him to "step into her experience" but it was just met with steely cold anger.

[formflier]

 

Max,

Try to twist this to a positive.

I do lots of written evaluations... .an yes it is scary when things get written down... .and very likely they are starting a file.

I am a fan of always writing stuff down... good or bad.  That way it's not weird...

Spin this to her... .gently... as good.

She now has the list to work on... .

If it not on the list... .she is doing ok.  There are lots of things that could be put on the list that weren't.

She knows where to put her focus each day... .to address things on the list.

SHE SHOULD reach out  for extra help to address things that are on the list.

If there is any way to encourage her to focus energy on the list... and not on "what she thinks" she should do... .that would be a good thing.

I have seen many people think that they know better than the evaluator... .and then get in trouble because the list goes unaddressed... .because they are focused on what "they know" they need to be doing in order to improve.


Also... .try to focus her on the fact that the list has stuff to STOP doing... .which is normally much easier for people to overcome... .than people that need to remember to START doing things.

Granted... I get that pwBPD do many things unconsciously...

Last:  This seems like a manageable list... .and it seems like a good reaction (especially for her).



FF

[flourdust]

My wife had a pattern.

She would start a new job in an incredibly positive mood. Within the first few days, she would be gushing about how much she loved her boss and her co-workers. She would Facebook friend them.

Over the next few months, she would start to draw battle lines. Someone at work was frustrating her, and she was in conflict with them. It would usually start out as a disagreement over some project or protocol. She would take her concerns to her boss, feel vindicated and soothed, and gush some more about how wonderful her boss was.

Then the conflict deepened. She would spend a LOT of time in her boss' office complaining about her co-workers. Now she had villains -- a few co-workers who were (according to her) actively trying to sabotage her. She spent a lot of time ranting about them to me.

And then she would be fired. Or demoted. Or have her work re-assigned. The "villains" won.

Before I understood BPD, I first thought that she was describing her workplace accurately, and she had terrible luck to keep getting into these situations. Then I thought she was over personalizing her workplace and needed to spend less time involved in conflicts (and certainly less time complaining to her boss). Now, I see this as symptomatic of her illness.

[maxsterling]

flourdust -

In the 3+ years I have known my wife, this is her 4th job.  The first 3 went down EXACTLY as you describe.  And I mean to the letter.   First day she would tell me how fate brought her to the right place, she loves the place she is working, and loves her new boss.  Within a week or two, she would bring up one co-worker that was irritating her.  Then she would bring this up to the boss... .within a month - the boss was evil.  Her current job has gone a slightly different course, because she never sung the praises of this place from the beginning to quite the same level.  I think her expectations were lower because of previous failures. 

[maxsterling]

FF -

Agree 100%.  She showed me the list last night, and I did my best to help her look at it constructively. 

My response: - the list is simply a written list, is not any kind of "official" list, does not threaten consequences or pass blame.  It simply lists facts.  It starts off by saying that W has repeatedly asked for help in certain areas, and made claims that she is not being supported.  The list simply lists the times and dates in which staff members offered assistance and what he/she offered.  It in no way qualifies how helpful the interactions were.  It simply is a letter outlining that W asked for help, and that the administrators did in fact respond.  I think she understood that.   

then I explained the list helps her, too.  It basically outlines, in writing, what the administrators will or won't do for her.   In other words, she is free now to stop asking for help, and instead use her best judgment.  If later they come back and say she is doing something wrong, the letter then states that they did not offer her the specific help that she was asking for.   I explained the letter is simply a written confirmation of what has been discussed, nothing more, nothing less.  Again, she felt more at peace with that.

She then claimed all the points in the letter were inaccurate, and said she felt like responding to each and every one of them.  I told her that would not be advisable, and would be better off just ending the dialogue and moving forward.  Addressing each point would solve nothing, and only result in more hurt and frustration.  I then said it would be best for her to focus on her job, trust herself to do the best she can, but be sure to not slack on the basics of what they are asking her to do (show up for meetings, meet deadlines, etc.)

It was mostly a positive conversation, with one negative.  She later told me she received an email instructing her that she had to have grades submitted by today.  She has them written down, just needs to enter them into the system.  It's not a ton of work, but she told me she was not going to do it last night because she didn't feel like it. I think the real reason is that she feels bitter, and wants to be late with submitting the grades as a passive-aggressive retaliation. 

[formflier]

 

Max,

Having given tons of employees lists like this, and being in a r/s with a pwBPD, I can see the trains heading at each other.

I think a couple nudges could fix it, and lead to praise.

If you can move her from rebuttal to actionable I think this can go very well.  Consider our rules for validation and explain those to your wife in terms of having a boss. 

"Your boss is entitled to be wrong, you are not going to fix that, you also don't have to agree with it.  But, you do have to take action on it."

So, she admits no wrongdoing, doesn't agree with her boss, but makes her own list of NEW ACTIONS that she is taking as a result of getting the list.

She will send that list to her boss in the context of "Thank you for your list, in an attempt to address this list I have taken the following action.  I would appreciate your feedback on my action." 

Now you are going to love me,ask her to grumble at you/with you about the principal.  Griping to the principal will not go well. 

I think you are close to victory on this one.



FF

[Grey Kitty]

Max, I know you really want to help your wife. I do to. These things you are talking about with FF are good.

Keep your eye on the right place in the big picture Remember this:

IMHO, I think your biggest challenge will be to not step in as rescuer, to be able to tolerate your wife feeling badly about this, and not step in to soothe her.

I agree with your reply, 100%.  The reality here is, I *can't* step into that role - I don't have any energy left for that.

That means let her passive-aggressively turn her grades in late if she chooses to do so.

[maxsterling]

Max, I know you really want to help your wife. I do to. These things you are talking about with FF are good.

Keep your eye on the right place in the big picture Remember this:

IMHO, I think your biggest challenge will be to not step in as rescuer, to be able to tolerate your wife feeling badly about this, and not step in to soothe her.

I agree with your reply, 100%.  The reality here is, I *can't* step into that role - I don't have any energy left for that.

That means let her passive-aggressively turn her grades in late if she chooses to do so.

Exactly.  This is not my business.  She may very well get in trouble, but again, not my business and nothing I can fix.  One way or another, she will have to do them. 

[formflier]

  Watch your language, stay away from black and white. Focus on the good (maybe find a better word than good) that can come from the list, not whether the list is good or bad. Yeah, the PA stuff, I would just give her a pat on shoulder and express confidence that she will be able to figure it out. Then go hide,                                            

FF

[maxsterling]

Some interesting developments here... .1- W did get bugged about putting her grades in, she did, and she said she felt much better afterwards.  2 - W decided it best to not take work home, and to not spend as much time prepping for the next day/week.  Instead, she has decided to do what feels reasonable, and trust her abilities.  Bravo!  I see those as *major* breakthroughs.  But the biggest one... .

W does not like her step mother.  Never has.  W blames step mother for childhood problems, taking her dad away from her, and on and on. I've never heard W say anything positive about her.  Most of what I hear is worries that her step mother will be judgmental, and that rarely comes to fruition.  W asked her step mother to help in her classroom, because her step mother has teaching experience.  This happened yesterday, and it went AWESOMELY.  I'm surprised W even asked, and absolutely floored that it went so well.  I mean W had absolutely NOTHING negative to say about the encounter, and that is a first.  Typically, dealing with stepmom means I hear a day or two of complaining afterwards. 

And another thing - W has mostly moved on from the evaluation - again - a first.  And she actually is more apologetic towards me lately, at least recognizing that she is mean to me, manipulates me, and puts pressure on me.  And lately instead of labeling a mean and evil person for calling the police on her, she uses the language that she acted in a way that I "had to call the police on her."

[maxsterling]

I want to add again that I think the medication is playing a major role in this shift.  It keeps her just calm enough for her to actually evaluate things. 

[flourdust]

That's great! These sound like really positive changes.

[Grey Kitty]

  Good progress!

Sounds like she stopped painting you black. (Which obviously feels terrible for you when she does!)

A pwBPD will paint you white instead. As you get healthy, that doesn't feel good either. It isn't genuine appreciation of who you really are; it is more like an infatuation with a fantasy unreal version of yourself. (No more real than the painted black version of you is!)

What you are describing sounds closer to seeing you as a real person, instead of either extreme. 

[maxsterling]

Hmm.  Maybe it is a step toward seeing me as a real person, but I mostly still feel painted white. I hate being painted white more than being painted black.  Black hurts, but at least the emotion is obvious.  When painted white, I feel like I am on edge, second guessing intents, wondering if it is all fake. 

I'm glad I an not currently being screamed at.  But I still feel caught in the cycle.  I still spend considerable time wondering if much of the current behavior is because she wants something from me - she has nobody else.  Let's put it this way:  while she is mostly positive towards me the past few weeks, it doesn't take but a small something for her to quickly snap at me or make some comment under her breath. 

[Grey Kitty]

There are two things here that might both be happening.

First, I'll bet you have symptoms like PTST / C-PTSD... .a part of you doesn't trust this period of calm, and expects the venom to start flying any moment. Obviously that kind of thing has you worried. That is a result of your prior treatment, and doesn't say much about her current behavior at all.

Second... .what is her current positive phase toward you really like?

Some people in my life have (or still do) idealize me. It is kinda uncomfortable, even though none of those people in my life today are at all likely to paint me black and mistreat me. Those fears of mine are more of a distant memory these days. And if somebody does start it, I know I can protect myself well.

A few very close and very wonderful people in my life truly accept me and appreciate me for exactly who I am. Strengths, flaws, blind spots... .the whole package. They see some of it better than I see it in myself. This kind of relationship is completely different from being painted white.

This is a continuum, not a chasm that has to be jumped across in one leap. Do you think your wife is taking a few steps in that direction?

[maxsterling]

First, I'll bet you have symptoms like PTST / C-PTSD... .a part of you doesn't trust this period of calm, and expects the venom to start flying any moment. Obviously that kind of thing has you worried. That is a result of your prior treatment, and doesn't say much about her current behavior at all.

For sure.  It's weird.  My mood changes rapidly, and that's not really like me.  I can be in one mood, calm and peaceful, and she will say or do something that will trigger me, I will get an image of her screaming at me, and I get a strong urge to pull away.  For example, we can be having a pleasant evening, and she may bump her toe, then she yells a curse word, and suddenly I am feeling uneasy.

Second... .what is her current positive phase toward you really like?

<snip>

This is a continuum, not a chasm that has to be jumped across in one leap. Do you think your wife is taking a few steps in that direction?

Yes, a few steps, but I don't know what her positive phase toward me is really like.  It seems so foreign. The reality is, not so long ago I was painted black, and she was saying nasty stuff to me.  And on occasion, some of that nastiness still slips out.  But as for the things said in the past - it feels like they are still hanging out there - no resolution.  Three months ago, she accused me of xyz and called me abc.  I felt hurt.  Very hurt.  And now, she is no longer accusing me of xyz or abc, but hasn't apologized or even acknowledged that she said that.   So I am left feeling a contradiction - does she still think those things?  Did she change her mind?  Does she now think she was wrong?  I do my best to live in today and let current words and actions speak for themselves.  Again, this is where I feel triggered.  She may now go off about a co-worker or student, and this triggers me back to things she said about me that feel like they have no resolution. 

[pallavirajsinghani]

 I'm wondering if it is a lack of connection, an inability to make changes, or is it just excuse making in order to not have to change.

I have often wondered Max that is the only way she defines her relationship with you.  It may be that she believes that being dysfunctional is the only way she can have a relationship with you, hence this resistance to change.  Something like,  "... .If I change, my relationship with Max will also change, would it be a change for the worst?  Would I lose him?'... .

Of course, these could be powerful unconscious impulses at play here.

I'd invite you and others to comment and criticize my statement as I am myself not sure of it's merit.