Dealing with crazy episodes

[LilMe]

My uBPDh has been obsessed (literally - I'm not using the term sarcastically!) with making a large orchard and bringing in load after load of mulch.  He thinks society is going to break down soon and we won't have access to food.  He doesn't drive, so the whole family has to pile in the car every day (except Sunday - they are closed) and go to a nearby town to get a trailer load of mulch.  Some days we go multiple times.  He dysregulates if anything interferes with this.  We also go to the butcher two towns away every Friday before getting mulch.

Last Friday, the butcher offered to give us a big bag of meat.  It was still warm and would have to be processed by me at home.  I am OK with that.  uPBDh started getting stressed out in the car, muttering to himself, and telling me we had to hurry or the meat would go bad.  I tried to reassure him, but for the most part kept quiet as he had been building up for a blow over the last few days.  When we got to the mulch pile, someone had put a bunch of branches in front of the mulch so we couldn't get any.  He started pacing up and down muttering.  He decided to get a bunch of leaves instead.  Fine.  When we got in the car he asked if I had any plans for the day.  I stupidly said that I was hoping to see a friend that afternoon for an hour or so and he completely flipped out.  I'm talking some type of weird psychotic breakdown!

We got in the car, with the children, and he screamed F***  You over and over, as loud as he could, for several minutes.  He wouldn't stop or get out of the car so I started driving toward home.  Then he started talking to himself in a weird, high-pitched voice.  I believe he was mimicking me, but he was saying things that I never said and never would say - things he imagines.  As seems to be daily now, he yelled that he hated my guts and wanted me to leave.

I was mostly quiet, just calmly asking from time to time for him to think of how the children are feeling.  He continued to hate me for another couple of days.  The only time he spoke to me was rude comments (like get off your fat a** - I am 5'6" and wear a size 1).  I tried to be quiet and avoided interacting with him as best I could.  Monday morning I get up and he hugs me.  Half-asleep, I said that I thought he hated my guts.  He claimed he has never said that!  I somehow managed to keep my mouth shut and go about my business.

Is there anything more I can do (or not do) to make this better, especially for the children?  Things have actually gotten much worse in the last year since I have been consistently enforcing a few boundaries, not taking his rants personally, and focusing on bettering myself.  He will not acknowledge that he has any problem.  He did stop drinking (one of my boundaries) and attends AA a couple times a month, but doesn't have a sponsor and isn't working the steps.  He actually went to two different MC with me over the years, but hated one and refused to go back after the first visit and wasn't honest with the other so we stopped.

Thank you for letting me share.  I do not really want to share with anyone close to me as it is hurtful to them, seeing me and the children having to deal with this.

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[formflier]

We got in the car, with the children, and he screamed F***  You over and over, as loud as he could, for several minutes.  He wouldn't stop or get out of the car so I started driving toward home.  

Do you normally drive?  If so... keep doing it... .  Safety first.    Also remember that when it gets this bad... .you are not going to talk him out of it (it being having an episode)

What I have done in situations like this.   Pull over, take the keys and say I'm going for a walk... I will be back in 10 minutes.  In this case, probably best to take the kids with you.  Maybe go inside to a restaurant and have a snack.

The key is to get out of sight of him and let him calm on his own.  Taking the keys is safety measure... .also makes sure you aren't stranded.

Next:  Tell me about boundaries and MC.

Good that you are consistently enforcing them.  please give details on the boundary and how you are enforcing it.

Is he in any treatment? 

In the future if he wants to quit MC... .you keep going... .at least for several sessions.

I would stop asking him to think about others feelings (for now)... .it's not going to work and probably makes things worse.

Can he go get much by himself?  It's great to let him have an obsession project... .but your and the kids level of help should be "normal".   

In other words... .don't let his obsession control your life.

FF

[LilMe]

Thanks for responding FF.  He is blind.  I have no money, no insurance, and he will not pay for counseling.  He is not in treatment and believes he has no problem.

My main boundary is no physical violence against me or the children or I will involve the authorities.  No drinking or the children and I will leave until it stops.  I haven't had to act on either yet, but he taunts me and threatens to drink or hit me.  I do not respond to that.

He has already erupted today.  A friend gave the children each a stuffed animal yesterday.  They have been happily playing with them since.  This morning he demanded that they throw all their stuffed animals away except one.  They each have 5 or 6 favorites that they keep on their bed.  They were understandably upset and crying.  I asked him to reconsider and he blew.  What is worse, letting him hurt them like that and not standing up for them, or the hurt when he explodes at us?

[formflier]

No partner gets to demand things of kids like that.

Focus on solutions.

So... perhaps you can limit it to 3 stuffed animals on the bed and put the others up in the closet.  Make it a game... .next week invite the other stuffed animals to come for a visit. Compromise is hard with pwBPD... focus on being assertive, don't react. He will try to rage to get you to capitulate.  Let him rage. Remove yourself and kids.  Move on with life after the rage. In this instance.

You are open to making changes in stuffed animals... but you don't agree to his "solution".  Ask him to propose another.  Propose one of your own.  

Don't back down, don't attack. Let him know you look forward to working towards compromise and you are not in a rush so if you both can't agree today, you are ok with coming back to it tomorrow. Don't ask him to reconsider, let him know that his "desires" are great... normal... .you support him and his desires, but that you feel differently.

If he gets into it, express that his desires are fine, as are yours, and you look forward to solutions. Very likely he will run out of energy before mutually agreeing as he will keep trying to bully.

If he gets abusive... leave the conversation.

So, direct answer.  Stand up for kids, and limit the hurt when he explodes.  Giving in to him will make it worse.

FF

[Icthelight]

What is worse, letting him hurt them like that and not standing up for them, or the hurt when he explodes at us?

This gets me too. I understand how you feel because I struggle with the same guilt.

No partner gets to demand things of kids like that.

Focus on solutions.

So... perhaps you can limit it to 3 stuffed animals on the bed and put the others up in the closet.  Make it a game... .next week invite the other stuffed animals to come for a visit. Compromise is hard with pwBPD... focus on being assertive, don't react. He will try to rage to get you to capitulate.  Let him rage. Remove yourself and kids.  Move on with life after the rage. In this instance.

You are open to making changes in stuffed animals... but you don't agree to his "solution".  Ask him to propose another.  Propose one of your own. 

Don't back down, don't attack. Let him know you look forward to working towards compromise and you are not in a rush so if you both can't agree today, you are ok with coming back to it tomorrow. Don't ask him to reconsider, let him know that his "desires" are great... normal... .you support him and his desires, but that you feel differently.

If he gets into it, express that his desires are fine, as are yours, and you look forward to solutions. Very likely he will run out of energy before mutually agreeing as he will keep trying to bully.

If he gets abusive... leave the conversation.

So, direct answer.  Stand up for kids, and limit the hurt when he explodes.  Giving in to him will make it worse.

FF

Great advice. I am trying to be more assertive by standing up for myself and for our daughters. This helps validate what I'm doing  

[LilMe]

It sounds good on paper, FF    He believes that he is the king of the house and what he says goes; no discussion.  By the time the children were crying and I figured out what happened, he was coming back into the house from hiding the stuffed animals he took so he can burn them later with the trash.  After I suggested reconsidering, he yelled a bunch of horrible stuff at me, kicked the kitchen chairs around, and finally went outside.  There was no opportunity for me to say anything more.  After he left, I calmed myself and the children down, talked about our feelings, validated them, etc.  We went on to have a nice day doing a few fun things in town (while he shoveled mulch)! 

My daughter (8) was sad and crying in her bed at bedtime, but we snuggled and talked and she was finally able to get to sleep.

If I was not here, he would have thrown the stuffed animals away, the children would have been hurt, and he would not have raged at me.  Our  daughter would have cried alone in her bed.  Ugh.  I hope I am doing the right thing by staying.  I need a little pocket chart that shows me which bad behavior does the most damage to the children  :'(

[formflier]

It sounds good on paper,                                

FF    He believes that he is the king of the house and what he says goes; no discussion.

                         He is allowed to believe whatever he wants, as are you. Unilateral action like this is very damaging to the r/s.  Perhaps you can lead the way by offering compromise. Keep at it.  There also may be an underlying issue about "why" he took them.  Listen for emotions and ideas to validate and understand. I would think about times you have "suggested reconsidering" and find ways to be more assertive while looking for compromise.                                  

FF

[sweetheart]

Hi LilMe,

This behaviour from your h is something I am v familiar with. It sounds like you are dealing with someone who is experiencing disordered thinking of a delusional intensity, where what is going on for your h has v little basis in reality, but it absolutely is a reality that he believes in.

This makes dealing with this type of behaviour much harder, because the behaviour you describe is erratic and unpredictable in a way that does not follow the usual rules. This makes it difficult to work toward a compromise, because often this thinking is so concrete and absolute as it often serves as a kind of emotional defence against all sorts of other things. So like ff says accept this is his reality, and do not challenge him.

I would be talking to my family doctor, or contacting a Crisis centre for advice. This is not a situation I would be advising you to try and manage without professional help. So what help is available for you LilMe, family, friends, do they know, if not can you rely on them for support?

The most important thing you can do is focus on minimising the risk of exposure from his dysregulations toward you and your children. When he is dysregulated wherever possible stay out of his way. Try not to challenge his perspective on his reality no matter how bizarre.

Consider a Safety Plan https://bpdfamily.com/discussions/search-info4.htm - I understand this is not Domestic Violence, but thinking in terms of what to do if a situation escalates, money, clothes, spare car keys, a place to stay.

I'm not trying to scare you, just prompting you to prioritise things differently, so you and your childrens wellbeing becomes paramount.

If you were on a different board I would not be advising you to stay with things as they are, things sound pretty scary and unpredictable and the children sound upset and confused which is understandable. You are posting on Staying but I do not think that it is sustainable for you to keep trying to firefight this type of behaviour alone. Please get some advice.

[LilMe]

Thank you for writing Sweetheart.  I have amazing friends and family who help and support me and the children.  I couldn't survive without them!  We have also worked with our local DV people in the past and I know they are there if I need them.

Things were back to normal today. Whew!  Hopefully things will stay calm for a while. Thanks for the advice and support. I learn so much from everyone.

[sweet tooth]

I had a similar "I didn't say that" instance. My friend was driving like a maniac through a parking lot (I was following her). When we got to our destination I said, "you were driving a little wrecklessly." She replied by telling me that I "drive like an old lady." Months later she was in the car with me. I was driving and kept a minimum of 1 car space between my car and the car in front of us. She told me she feels scared when I drive. I responded by asking, "I thought I drive like an old lady?" She said, "I said that? I surprise myself with the things I say."

Dysregulation is real.

[LilMe]

Update. This morning he hugged me and said 'I'm back, remember me?' He is back to the kind and patient person. Relief, sadness, annoyance. We had a nice day. Guard is up, but trying to enjoy the peace while it lasts. Thank you all for being here and being so helpful and supportive!