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Author Topic: Horses and daughters  (Read 428 times)
formflier
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« on: November 19, 2015, 10:22:10 AM »

Quick history:  Many moons ago I had a lovely young daughter that pestered me to own a horse.  Horse camps and such were not enough.

 

I'm 5th generation farm guy (if I am counting right) and to me horses are livestock. I get it that many look at them differently... .that's ok.  People that board horses and then don't go visit them ticks me off.  I wasn't going to do that for/with my daughter.  So, during a move... .we bought a farm where we could own a horse instead of paying hundreds per month in boarding fees.  I figured I would cure her of this "horse thing" once she had to go out there every day and scoop the... .well... .you know... .poop. I figured wrong.  She spent half of her life growing up on that farm... .we topped out at 10-12 horses... .30 or so goats.  She ran the goats as a business to make money to buy horses.  :)id ok buying and selling horses as well.

Well... .she is now in college studying natural horsemanship.  My powers to cure my daughter of her afflictions are sorely lacking  

We moved to a semi-rural environment and had two different boarding locations.  Both were fine... but complicated by BPD weirdness (owner was a lady  and my wife was posturing all the time).  Owner at first place was super particular about horse care and my wife was always "pushing back" against that.  Basically... I hated life because women were fighting and pushing me to choose sides.  I was early in the BPD learning thing too. Second place was just a pasture... but was too far away.  25 minutes on a good day... .usually more.  Then you have to spend time doing things with a horse.  It fell apart quickly... .and always was going to get better tomorrow.

So... .we are going to be living "in town"... .no hint of semi-rural.  Luckily I have found a laid back guy with several fenced in areas and barns that is 10 minutes away on a good day... .15 with traffic.  

Wife is getting what she wants (location and house... and I wills say the house is great... .I'm just not a cul-de-sac guy)

I have been clear that "my thing" that I want is that the horse is number 1 priority and then we fill in rest of our lives in new location.  So, we'll be scheduling times to go see horse first... .then adding in this lesson or that activity.   We can't go see the horse because of Karate (or music... or... .whatever) is not going to work.

1.  I'll be very involved in actually taking daughters out there and spending time with them.  Much easier when drive time is 20 minutes... .instead of an hour.  Plus it's good together time with daughters. Likelihood of D10 choosing some activity other than horse is really low.  I realize that at some point my wife will likely "test this"... .I'm ready.  D5 has already ridden in some shows and gotten trophies as well.  There is a D2 for future riding. S7 is interested... .although is easily swayed. S15 realizes horses equals work... .run the other direction.  Same with S13.

Anyway... .horse has been moved and I'm happy with situation.  Wife is positive about it as well.  My challenge will be to gently keep the horse the priority.

I'm open to thoughts, suggestions, questions... .My wife has had a couple bad months... .compared to 6 months before that.  I suspect that as move resolves itself things will get better and a routine will be established... .I need to be involved in shaping that routine. She is working full time as a teacher so should have less time to affect plans in a negative way.

FF

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Grey Kitty
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« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2015, 11:56:36 AM »

I read this and thought "Uh-Oh, I hope this isn't another agreement with your wife... ."

I have been clear that "my thing" that I want is that the horse is number 1 priority and then we fill in rest of our lives in new location.  So, we'll be scheduling times to go see horse first... .then adding in this lesson or that activity.   We can't go see the horse because of Karate (or music... or... .whatever) is not going to work.

You never have and never will get the ability or right to set anybody else's priorities. That includes your wife and your kids.

You get to choose your priorities only, and can set horse as priority #1 for you.

YOU won't skip the horse for karate (or whatever). Your boundary. You live it.

YOU won't take care of a horse for a child that doesn't make the horse their priority as well.

I'm assuming that the current horse(s) boarded are mostly for D10 and D5, with possibilities for S7, and D2.

So if any of your kids start putting horse work last, after other activities, they lose your support in their activities with horses. You don't give them rides anymore, etc.

Since S13 and S15 aren't interested in horse work, they don't get much horse activity. All good. You should still support them in their activities (perhaps still not taking them to Karate instead of taking D10 for horse stuff. That's a case-by-case issue for you)

Your wife gets to choose her priority #1. She gets to flake out and change her mind on it every day. She even gets to go nuts and tell you that you need to have the same priority #1 that she does every 20 minutes when it changes. Let her have her priorities. Let her put her energy into them as she sees fit (assuming no children are harmed or neglected).
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« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2015, 11:58:39 AM »

P.S. Is this your older daughter's theme song?

https://youtu.be/ysaBHTwazjk
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« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2015, 12:40:53 PM »

  There is some part of agreement with my wife here, if it falls apart, it will fall apart and the horse will be sold. "I will not keep up a horse that others are not interested in and do not make a priority" I am confident I have the ability to sell the horse if needed and be assertive, vice reactionary. "Help me understand the value of a horse that doesn't get used?" I don't think it will come to that but when I think through the twists and turns of how this could go, I'm fine with that outcome. Note:  We've sold precious horses before.  In fact we still keep track of where one of them lives and may go visit him some day.  The horse was sold because I "forced a choice" and the oldest daughter choose to sell.  Yes there have been some regrets here and there, but at the end of the day I think all see it as a positive.                                        

FF
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« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2015, 07:11:01 AM »

Great advice, Grey Kitty.  I would add that you should probably have a family meeting or something to lay out the specific expectations for keeping the horse.  So everyone knows what to expect - no surprises.  Sometimes my husband has expectations that he doesn't share with us.  When we don't meet those expectations, we are shocked and hurt by what he does.  Like giving our horse and mule away, with no warning, to a couple of guys who took them straight to the sale barn.  One of my daughters and I loved and cared for them, but he had the expectation that his daughter would love and care for them and when she didn't, the animals were gone.

I love all my farm animals like pets, even my cows.  They love me back and give me kisses :^)
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« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2015, 07:16:12 AM »

  We have had family discussions and agreements. They need to be held regularly to that people don't "forget" or remember a different meeting. Agreements with "just" my wife are bogus because she will twist it to whatever it needs to be to suit her needs. If the rest of the family is in on it, it is much harder for 1 person to twist.                                

FF
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« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2015, 07:21:43 AM »

FF,

I am so happy my D10 is into fancy goldfish rather than horses. Much less $$$$$ and poop to contend with.

Have you put down in writing what is expected from your daughters? "You are responsible for X, Y, and Z. If you do not, then I will assume you no longer want the horse and we will sell it."

It seems like your kids are pretty responsible, so is the issue your wife not supporting them by helping with rides to the stable, etc... .?
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« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2015, 07:29:51 AM »

  It seems like your kids are pretty responsible, so is the issue your wife not supporting them by helping with rides to the stable, etc, ?  

                         At the height of BPD weirdness my wife was claiming that us "discussing" issues was the same as me agreeing to it. So, we did discuss karate and I allowed that there were many benefits, the kids had done that before and it was positive. She "promised" that karate would fix lots of issues with the kids because they would become responsible. Poof, they are signed up, and wife has them all pumped up with excitement saying that mommy and daddy are behind this and the schedule change.  Time for the horse plummeted. I was positioned as the bad guy for wanting to "cancel" karate.  I wasn't as smart on things as I am now, was much more reactive. Since then I have been consistent about being clear about what is a discussion and when we have arrived at a "solution". She still pushes at this from time to time but I have avoided being "run over" by her for a while. I am a fan of written lists, they are very triggering for my wife.  The best way to handle "agreements" seems to be that an "agreement" is a general idea of what is going to happen, vice something "exact".   So, an "agreement" of three horse days per week has a high likelihood of working.  MWF at 630 pm is doomed to failure. I can't explain why, but the more vagueness I am ok with in the agreement, I get much more of what I want.                                

FF
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Grey Kitty
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« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2015, 08:06:57 AM »

I can't explain why, but the more vagueness I am ok with in the agreement, I get much more of what I want.

My guess on why.

Specific hard measurable things = FF wife feeling controlled.

"... .and then the fight started" if you remember those jokes/meme... .
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« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2015, 08:11:09 AM »

I can't explain why, but the more vagueness I am ok with in the agreement, I get much more of what I want.

FF

Fascinating. I have the exact same issue.

It is OK to say, "we are going to do X."

"We are going to do X at 18:00 on Tuesdays" is met with strong resistance. Grey Kitty is right on with it being too much like control to a pwBPD.

Does not having an agreement on set hours work? I would expect a retired Navy guy who wants to be somewhere at 18:30 is going to be there and ready to go at 18:30.  
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« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2015, 08:12:27 AM »

  Does not having an agreement on set hours work? I would expect a retired Navy guy who wants to be somewhere at 18:30 is going to be there and ready to go at 18:30.  

                         Dude, the inner turmoil on this is, well, you can imagine.                                

FF
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« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2015, 08:15:19 AM »

[  Specific hard measurable things =                                

FF wife feeling controlled.  

                         She will at times fully admit to this.  At other times expresses a need for "flexibility".  I've long since given up asking how flexibility helps, especially when she is desiring a specific outcome. GK, Was it you or waverider that was talking about not putting energy into figuring things out, that can't be figured out? Of course I from time to time put some brain energy into figuring things out, as soon as I catch myself, I try to redirect.                                

FF
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« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2015, 08:47:35 AM »

I'm sure I've spoken of how little you really gain from figuring out "why" on things like this.

A very wise and dear friend of mine says:

Excerpt
There isn't any cheese at the end of that maze.

Understanding that she feels tied down/controlled by that sort of thing helps you figure out what works with her. But asking her why or how flexibility helps her? Think about how she will see that question... .

Sounds to me like a challenge and an attempt to logically back her into a corner. A first step on the way to "proving" that her need/desire isn't valid.

Her fear of being controlled by you and your preference for the kind of order and discipline you had in the Navy is a completely valid feeling and fear. But there is no LOGIC in it.

Your need for and comfort in that kind of structure is similar.

For you, knowing that horse activities come at 1800 on Tuesdays feels very safe and comfortable.

For you, the chaos of not knowing when things are going to happen, being late, and herding cats to get things done is really uncomfortable and frustrating and unpleasant. You cannot LOGIC yourself to the point of not caring, or even feeling much more safe and comfortable living that way.

... .If we come down to objective rational logic, we can divide life up into things that cannot be scheduled, things that are harder to do scheduled, things that don't matter, things that go better when scheduled, and things that need to be scheduled... .left to your own devices, anything that is possible or vaguely reasonable to apply schedule and routine to you would choose to... .left to her own devices, ff wife appears to prefer the opposite.

Accept that schedules make you feel safe, and make her feel trapped. Both feelings are real. Neither is wrong.

It is your job to self-sooth and find a way to keep yourself feeling safe in the big picture so you can compromise and negotiate with your wife. Even if that means giving up firm schedules that your wife participates in. (Yes it would be nice if she met you in the middle... .but outside your control)
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