An unreasonable Boundary? (part 2)

[Cole]

Appreciate your input. She will not move a thing and just make this worse if she does not get to see the kids the minute she gets here. For all her faults, she loves those kids more than life itself.

She has already owned this with them. She told them she has to move because she is mentally ill and needs to get better and to not blame daddy. They don't fully understand, but she has tried.

Doubt she would take anything she should not, but plan to stick around anyways.      

However... .May not be an issue. Text just received: "The woman in my (hospital) room with me has her husband with her. I am so incredibly lonely and rethinking this"

Meetings for the rest of the afternoon, more later... .



Mod note: Continuation from: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=285989

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[formflier]

  OK.  The part where she self identifies as needing help, mentally ill is really good for your cause. This is huge. What I'm seeing is a situation that needs a couple firm "nudges" to get going in right direction. Remember carrot and stick thing. So, if she says she gives up and wants to come back home, does she get to come back home with no strings attached?                                        

FF

[ForeverDad]

She is agreeable to a structured separation; that is what she has wanted and even begged me to do for weeks. She is still wanting that, but I need to insert some terms of my own which are close to what you suggested.

Thank you. The link to therapeutic separation is a big eye opener. Looks much like what she wants me to do. She keeps saying this is to fix her and get mentally well enough to fix us.

As I'm sure has been said here many times before, you can't change another person, only they can change themselves.  Of course, you can support her as she hopefully progresses in recovery.

I've echoed what someone first stated here long ago, after noting that BPD is a relationship more evident as a relationship is closer, we are/were too close in our relationships to be heard very well, the immense perceived emotional baggage of the close relationship gets in the way.  So, yes, she is likely to respond better to a counselor or therapist who has no emotional attachments with her.  Emotionally neutral relationship, that is, warm, helpful but strictly professional sessions.

Often here a separation draws a line in a relationship that is difficult to undo.  It's different for therapeutic separations, there are goals and thresholds that ought to be monitored.  I can think of two questions... .(1) Can you be informed of her real progress in therapy?  (2) After a year or whatever time period, it's possible one or both of you will see the other so differently that you may not get back together, can you both accept that?  I guess what I'm saying is that you're feeling this is more of the same old patterns of push/pull, come/go.  So much depends upon her making real progress in therapy, also where you two are at that later time.

Does she leave the children with you when she leaves or moves?  Frankly, over on the Family Law board the biggest problem is that the disordered parent feels entitled to the children and it's a horrendous struggle for years where our members are fighting to just be parents.  If she's leaving them behind then that's not your worry, probably you're worried about her popping in and out of the children's lives.  That's not good either but I feel that's a less common (lesser?) issue than the disordered parent obstructing the other without basis from parenting.

I recall there was another member on Staying a few years ago.  They adopted special needs children but the mother was in and out of the hospital all the time, even attempted suicide a few times.  It was quite a struggle for our member as dad.  I think at one point she was living separately.  I don't know what happened since then but it was really hard on them.

[Cole]

She called and let me know she is being discharged, going to spend the night at her parents. Says now that she has seen what it is going to be like for a few days, she is not so sure she wants to move. I told her what I need to allow her to come home, she told me what she needs. Mostly does not feel I respect her, but she cannot articulate why.     

Then she tried to drag my mother into it and blame her for all our issues. I cut her off on that, told her if she still has problems with my mother we will cover it in MC (though it will likely be something different by the time we get there).

So, waiting to see what she decides after she thinks on and prays about it real good.

[formflier]

  Good, what did you tell her you needed?   What was her initial reaction?                                    

FF

[Cole]

ForeverDad,

The separation she envisions is structured with time lines and markers yet to be determined by her T and our MC. She has signed HIPPA papers authorizing them to share information.

Should a therapeutic separation prove that we do not want to reconcile, then it will have given closure and a sense that we did what we could to save the marriage.

She plans that the kids stay with me. I offer a more stable life and she does not want to move them from their home.

FF,

Yes, we each said what we need for her to come back, and we each agree to the other's terms. She does not want to return to the partial hospitalization because she says it makes her feel like a freak and I get that. So we agreed she would consult her P and our GP for any other options they think would help. But if they say the partial hospitalization or in-patient is the best for her, she will go. The good thing here is she KNOWS she is mentally ill and WANTS to get better. She is officially dx as rapid cycle bipolar 2, but I am positive her T, the MC we were seeing, our GP, and her P all know there are strong elements of BPD; they have all asked me if I have read Walking on Eggshells.   

She called last night from her parents crying. Did not want to talk the the kids, just me. Says she misses me horribly and wants to come home. But... .it is a roll of the dice if she feels like that today. 

[ForeverDad]

She plans that the kids stay with me. I offer a more stable life and she does not want to move them from their home.

That is good.  (Many others can't get past the Denial and Blame Shifting and end up putting their own neediness and entitlement before the children's interests.)  Not that you're obstructing or minimizing her, it's that you can provide the stability and calm that the children need.  Likely flexible but limited contact with the children is wise for the time being.  She can always have structured parenting time at the times and places that work for her in whatever her current mental state is.  Her issues are likely to take many months to begin addressing them and years more later.  It's just that recovery takes time and effort, it's not an event even though we wish it were.

[Cole]

So here we are.

Yesterday she called and said now that she has had a taste of it, she does not want to move. Spent most of the evening texting and talking about what we can do to fix our marriage.

Today we had some short talks, she texted several times she loves me.

A few minutes ago she called to remind me she will have a truck here tomorrow morning to get the rest of her stuff.

So over this BPD behavior.