"Intellectual Disrespect"

[Beacher]

Spoke with BPD husband today, he moved out a few weeks ago after I found out he had an affair. Although he has said he is sorry and regrets it, told me I need to look in the mirror and see what I have done to contribute to our marital problems that opened the door for this woman to come into our lives and make him have the affair. Are you kidding me? I was so flabbergasted I couldn't even answer.

We began to talk about things and he said he hates the way I try to paint him as an abusive son of a B and I keep raising the bar on how he should treat me. I told him calling me names, screaming at me and threatening me is NOT normal and unacceptable. He claims he has spoken to many people and professionals and that all couples fight- if he is upset he is allowed to be intellectually disrespectful to me, as long as it is not violent or in public.

I'm absolutely floored here. I love him very much and wish things could work out but this kind of reasoning is so delusional I wouldn't even know where to start. I take the blame for many of my character defects but NO one deserves verbal abuse, not a single one of us. I'm so sad with the holidays coming but need to start making some hard decisions and dreading it. Where DO I draw the line with arguments and what is said in them?

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Daniell85]

If he was an intellectual, he would think of more clever things to say than what he just did.

The line is drawn exactly where your boundaries are. The boundary is for you, not him. At what point do you decide you have had enough? At that point is your boundary. When he hits that, you can remove yourself from the conversation by leaving the room/house/discussion.

He might appreciate when you say you will be back.

So what is acceptable to you? At what point do you start to feel angry, overwhelmed, hurt... and want to end the conversation?

[Beacher]

Thank you for your reply. I've reached the point when he becomes angry  when the conversation is not going his way and starts insulting my personal being.Remarks like ' did you even  graduate high school?' Or ' shut the f__k up'. That's when I hang up or walk away. End of conversation. These are the mild insults, cannot post! But you would really think someone who,just cheated on his spouse would be trying to earn their love and trust again, not these remarks.

[Daniell85]

yeh  mine cheated on me, too. One of the hardest things about it is the disrespect and anger being directed at me.

Bpd has a lot of shame. Cheating is a hard thing to face, so the projections begin.

You are in no way responsible for his bad choices.

What does he do when you end the conversations? And your instincts are very good in how you are  ending abusive conversations.  If you arent telling him you are going... .( i am not going to talk when the conversation is abusive.) It may be helpful long term to say.

[Beacher]

Yes I should, I'm sure the abruptness of my leaving is infuriating. Sometimes chases after me and slams into the room I have escaped to. He flips when you say the word ' abuse', so will have to come up with some creative terminology. Maybe ' disrespectful' ( but not intellectually!)

[unicorn2014]

Hi Beacher, that sounds like projection to me. Have you read about projection in SWOE?

[ReclaimingMyLife]

Hey Beacher,  sorry for all the insult on top of injury that your husband has flung your way.   You might check out Patricia Evans's book,  "The Verbally Abusive Relationship."  She does a great job of outlining the many and varied forms of verbal abuse along with suggestions on what to do about it (which includes how to proceed if you want to salvage the r/s).  I had already left my r/s with my UexBPDbf when I found it.   I was certainly glad to get the info then but definitely wished I had gotten it a whole lot sooner!

She also has a pretty thorough website you could start with,  and/or you can pay her for an hour of time after you have read her book.   I did that and found it very affirming and helpful.  

[waverider]

He flips when you say the word ' abuse', so will have to come up with some creative terminology. Maybe ' disrespectful' ( but not intellectually!)

"Unhealthy communication", it is not helping anyone emotionally.

Too often we leave disengaging too late by which time emotions are running rampant. If you can pick it earlier it becomes more like redirecting, and less threatening.

All RS have complex layers of reaction and counter reaction, all clouded in the need to blame someone. Everyone has an input into the problem that compounds. Whether it be a perceived invalidating attitude (and that is relative to needs of the recipient) which leaves someone finding the supply from elsewhere intoxicating. Thats not finger pointing or blaming its just how the process evolves, the "what ifs" of life.

Often abusive people will not see abuse for what it is. Traditionally abuse is seen as something deliberate and callus, however many abusive people are simply seeing themselves as being defensive, and under attack themselves. To many pwBPD it is simply an emotional overreaction. To the subject of the abuse, it is still abuse regardless of the intention or reason

[Beacher]

I have to get SWOE. I have a few other books that really opened my eyes to BPD. It was a great relief but also very sad when the symptoms were spot on but a cure or change seems unlikely. The problem with disengaging too early ( and believe me, I see it coming from a mile away) I'm accused of running away or raising the bar too high on what I will tolerate. That even a change of tone in voice has me saying " abuser!" Which is not true. It's like a dog that has been kicked too many times, you become passive/aggressive and cower and run before it's too late. I really appreciate all the feedback. He was seeing his therapist right after our conversation and called today to say he agrees it's not right to say " you f... king b, I'll take you down". I think he's just tired of living with his mother and wants to come home. Ugh.

[unicorn2014]

I have to get SWOE. I have a few other books that really opened my eyes to BPD. It was a great relief but also very sad when the symptoms were spot on but a cure or change seems unlikely. The problem with disengaging too early ( and believe me, I see it coming from a mile away) I'm accused of running away or raising the bar too high on what I will tolerate. That even a change of tone in voice has me saying " abuser!" Which is not true. It's like a dog that has been kicked too many times, you become passive/aggressive and cower and run before it's too late. I really appreciate all the feedback. He was seeing his therapist right after our conversation and called today to say he agrees it's not right to say " you f... king b, I'll take you down". I think he's just tired of living with his mother and wants to come home. Ugh.

Can you get it from the local library? It might really help you understand what's going on. It also sounds like you could benefit from doing some work on boundaries. Have you written about boundaries yet?

[formflier]

  "Talk properly to each other" was one I used for a while.  "There is too much energy in this conversation" or "let's have a "low energy" conversation" about this is another.  It seems like once I find a way of describing it that works, it only works for a while.  I do use the term "abuse" from time to time.    Think about your reactions:  You were "floored" at what he said.  For long term success, you will need to get to a place where you do not get "floored" so much.  That doesn't mean you are ok with what he says.  Hang in there!                      

FF