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Author Topic: How to deal with her lonliness  (Read 813 times)
maxsterling
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« on: November 24, 2015, 10:24:27 AM »

I know this sounds like a fool's question, but how do I deal with her loneliness?

I work two jobs, the second job to try and pay down bills (from her being unemployed for most of two years).  I also go to Alanon meetings, group therapy, and have plenty to do around the house.  She complains I never spend time with her and she is lonely.  She has no friends, and nobody she really talks to outside of me.  When she is not working, she watches TV and browses facebook. 

From my standpoint, she expects me to solve her loneliness.  Even if I didn't have the second job, I would still want to have my own life and she would still complain of being lonely.  How do I know?  That was the situation before I had the second job. 

How do I handle this?  I feel like I don't want to validate this out of fear I will enable it.  My instinct is to spend as much time with her as I feel is reasonable, and do my best to make special time with her when I have a day off, but not forget I have things I need to do on my own.  Validation here feel s like placating.  She's 40 years old.  She knows that her loneliness is not my problem, she knows she needs to get out and be social with others.  She has opportunities to socialize with others and is not taking them.  My feeling is that even talking to her or suggesting things, or even validating her lonely feeling is preventing her from taking the steps to reach out to others.

Thoughts?  How do I show I care that she is lonely without being manipulated into placating her?
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« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2015, 08:27:47 PM »

Ah. My life too.

I've tried having mutual friends to our house to socialise, but wife doesn't like that (she gets nervous and anxious). I've tried taking her with me to my events, hobbies, exercise, etc but again she always has an excuse why she can't. And she won't even go see her friends. But she gets annoyed when I do things without her, and comments often that we don't do things together.

It's almost like she wants ME to be her life. ME to be her sole source of enjoyment/entertainment/company. I don't know why. Maybe it's the delusion that "if we were soul mates then all we'd need is each other... .".

I think at the end of the day - it needs to be HER problem. Work out how much time you want to devote to her (2 nights a week of togetherness?). Do your own thing at other times. If she brings it up - invite her to whatever you are doing. And maybe you can contact her when you're not with her. A few SMS's about what you are doing may keep her feeling connected to you. They also say BPDs have the problem of "out of sight out of mind". So if you are not there - it's like you dont exist. So is there something you can leave with her to remind her of you. A photo, an invitation to an upcoming date night... .

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« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2015, 12:07:39 AM »

Not a lot you can do, trying to find options for her you will then run the risk of being accused of controlling.

If you cut back on your time it wont be enough.

As you say validation sounds shallow as it sets you up to change your time to suit
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« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2015, 05:06:14 AM »

As WW said, if you do anything to take care of this, it won't be enough- because it is her problem to solve herself.  

It will also keep her dependent on you to solve her loneliness.

This doesn't mean that you don't schedule time to do things together, but her loneliness is her problem to solve.

I think it is great that you are spending time working and doing positive things for yourself. It is possible that taking the time to take care of yourself and not taking care of her for her is creating a space in her life- but that is a good thing- it now lets her have the opportunity to develop her ability to take care of herself.

I also think if you make suggestions it could come off as controlling.

You seem happier- that's a good thing!

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« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2015, 06:38:19 AM »

  This is where I think social media is a negative for relationships.  She has a default where she can stare at her phone or the computer and not take action "in real life".  My wife will have similar complaints and then find things  that people have posted on facebook as a "reason" she can't hang out with them.  Since she "knows" the kind of people they are from what the post and talk about.  I'm sure if FB didn't exist, they would find another way to not socialize, but for now, FB gets my blame.                    

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« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2015, 10:04:42 AM »

 This is where I think social media is a negative for relationships.  She has a default where she can stare at her phone or the computer and not take action "in real life".  My wife will have similar complaints and then find things  that people have posted on facebook as a "reason" she can't hang out with them.  Since she "knows" the kind of people they are from what the post and talk about.  I'm sure if FB didn't exist, they would find another way to not socialize, but for now, FB gets my blame.  

FF

Yes, facebook is evil Smiling (click to insert in post) In addition, all the wonderful pictures that people post of how wonderful their relationships are, traveling to exotic places everyday, no one ever works, and how they never argue, etc. etc. causes my wife to scorn at me for neglecting her and making her feel alone. Since everyone else is living in a fantasy world and she's not, then I'm the reason for her unhappiness and loneliness.

I've given up so many things to spend time with my wife (outings with friends, softball league, volunteering at church etc.), and it is never enough. When she complains to me that I don't "see her" or spend quality time with her, I usually go into 'reminding her' mode. She gets more angry and her response is usually that "just because we're in the same room doing something together doesn't mean she feels connected or seen."

So, my recommendation is to definitely make time for her. Surprise her with outings to places she'd enjoy, go out to dinner, do things together. However, just know, that you will not be able to fill her and that your efforts will never be enough (long run). Hopefully, you can learn to be OK with that. I know I struggle with that because I do want to bring her happiness, joy and for her to feel completely loved by me. It's been 23 years, and I still get the "you never spend time with me" line.
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« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2015, 10:21:22 AM »

Thanks, guys.  This is just one of those situations where I want to stay completely out of it.  She has opportunities to socialize - she just doesn't.  There was a holiday potluck party for my second job - an opportunity to meet new people.  She sat there with a frown the whole time miserable saying she wanted to go home.  Most of her social interactions over the past decade have been through 12-step meetings.  She's gone to maybe 1 meeting in the past month.  She could go to the gym - doesn't.  She could go to yoga-doesn't.   She had FREE membership to a local art-therapy studio, with free art classes and music classes, and she was released from the program because she had not gone in months.  She went on and on about how nobody in her family or my family would remember her birthday.  I even made her a bet that they would.  And sure enough, her dad sent a card, her sister sent a card, my mom sent a card, plus nearly 100 birthday wishes on facebook from her family, my family, her friends, and my friends.   Most of the local friend she has made she eventually finds something wrong with.  Usually the "something" is unimportant, or something that is something she assumes and is simply not true.  It's the black/white push/pull with friends.  

I don't want to get involved, or even spend much time listening to this or validating this because I feel like part of her actually wants to not be social because she would rather complain about people not liking her than take the initiative to change.  I truly think she knows it is up to her to change the situation, and that me reminding her of that is just not necessary or good.  
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« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2015, 10:31:29 AM »

Max, good for you about staying out of her issues with loneliness. My husband has also complained about this and has tried to make me feel guilty.

"I moved hundreds of miles to be with you." Yet, when I've asked him what kind of social life he had previously, it sounds very similar to what he experiences now.

He has tried to meet people, then he will paint them white for a while, then black when they don't live up to his expectations. The only people he really wants to hang out with are people who have very little time for him. He wants to be BFFs with them, but they have an active social life and he's just one friend out of many. (That really galls him.)

I used to feel bad that he was lonely, but now I just do the things I like to do and hang out with friends who like riding horses, which my husband doesn't want to do--and that's fine with me. With his high-strung attitude, I don't want him anywhere near my horses.
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« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2015, 10:40:56 AM »

WOW, CF, word-for-word that is what I deal with.  "I moved halfway around the world to a place I would never live just to be with you - I gave up so much just to be here - and you don't even want to spend time with me!"   Gads.  And from my perspective, most of my to-do-list and interests and hobbies have been on hold since the day we met.  I can't spend 10 minutes outside pulling weeds in the garden before she is yelling at me from inside the house to come help her with something. 

I don't know what her deal with friends are.  Often, it's an envy issue - envy that the friends are happy and have other friends.  Envy that the other friends have kids, more money, better cars, etc.  And then there is the constant fear that her friends are judging her.  The story is the same - she meets someone and claims to really like this person.  A few weeks later, she brings up something this friend said that was upsetting.  This escalates to a near constant complaint to me about this friend.  W then starts acting in a passive-aggressive way towards this friend, cancels plans, becomes pushy and long-winded.  Friend backs off, then HUGE ugly fight. 
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« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2015, 11:23:21 AM »

Friendships are like any other close relationship. To have a close friendship, one has to be vulnerable and authentic. I think it takes a lot of effort to maintain a false self, to fear letting someone know the "real person".  People wanting a genuine friendship could lose patience with someone with BPD.

My mother has a couple of life long friends, but they have stuck with her, sometimes being painted black, sometimes being painted white. Still,overall, I think she has treated them better than her own family.

My H has some casual buddies, and I have a few close friends. It has been hard maintaining friendships with married couples as my H doesn't like to socialize and I am then a spare wheel.

We have no couple friends. People have invited us and then given up on us. My H is usually "too busy" to socialize, or he finds "faults" with any of the husbands of my friends.

It's funny that you mentioned the loneliness, because I am the lonely one in the relationship. I don't think my H cares at all if we have friends or not, but I do. I am the one who goes out by myself to places and events since he doesn't want to. I used to do a lot with the kids' friends and other moms but as the kids are older and do things on their own, it is more obvious that I am alone at social events, but I would much rather do things alone that bring along a reluctant, and cranky spouse.



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« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2015, 12:11:01 PM »

Hi Max,

Excerpt
How do I handle this?  I feel like I don't want to validate this out of fear I will enable it.

 Generally understanding your situation and putting words to it helps one to move forward. So what specifically are you afraid of validating?
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« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2015, 01:09:52 PM »

I am the one who goes out by myself to places and events since he doesn't want to. I used to do a lot with the kids' friends and other moms but as the kids are older and do things on their own, it is more obvious that I am alone at social events, but I would much rather do things alone that bring along a reluctant, and cranky spouse.

Yes Wendy, lonely life sometimes. Sorry to hear that your husband doesn't like to attend events with you. I too attend many events and gatherings alone. I've been attending church alone for many years. I've taken my girls throughout to their youth programs and am so glad that I did. For many years I was resentful that I was the only one attending and taking my girls and sometimes I thought about not taking them to teach my wife a lesson. I realized that this was childish behavior and continued to take them. So glad I did because they've established great relationships with lifelong friends.

I usually attend our company Christmas Party with one of my daughters or alone. The times that I recall my wife attending, she was suspicious of just about everyone. If I laughed too loudly or spoke too long with a co-worker she would say that she was hurt that she didn't have that kind of relationship with me. My co-workers have commented that I'm different when she's around. The fact is that I am because I'm usually trying not to do or say something that's going to trigger her. I too have realized that I'd rather attend events alone than have her criticizing me or being suspicious of just about everyone.
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« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2015, 01:22:37 PM »

  If I laughed too loudly or spoke too long with a co-worker she would say that she was hurt that she didn't have that kind of relationship with me.  

                 This one hit home for me.  Those of you that remember my wife snooping my email that she found open, complained that I "don't email her like I do other people".  I get similar comments when she see's me yukking it up and having a good time with people at parties.  Sigh.                  

FF
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« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2015, 01:29:33 PM »

Hi Max,

Excerpt
How do I handle this?  I feel like I don't want to validate this out of fear I will enable it.

 Generally understanding your situation and putting words to it helps one to move forward. So what specifically are you afraid of validating?

It feels like her constant complaining of loneliness is her way of getting attention (and validation) from me.  I feel that validation of her loneliness will simply feed the beast. 
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« Reply #14 on: November 25, 2015, 02:06:44 PM »

  Have you tried using the word "solutions" with her.  "I'm lonely"  max:  Use active listening to make sure she knows she is heard and then pivot to, "What do you think a solution could be?"  I have had some success using that word to steer conversations back to a better place.                  

FF
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« Reply #15 on: November 25, 2015, 02:34:59 PM »

It feels like her constant complaining of loneliness is her way of getting attention (and validation) from me.  I feel that validation of her loneliness will simply feed the beast. 

I get that it can be in part game playing and shopping for validation. But that does not change the fact that on her side there is pain related to it. And ignoring the pain is not helping but invalidating and keeping her stuck. It certainly is a conundrum how to deal with the situation.

First: Validation truly helps getting unstuck in such a situation. You may want to check e.g. a study on engineers loosing their job. Divided into two groups they were asked to write either on strategies to overcome their situation or to describe their pain. The latter group was more successful in finding a new job.

Second: You are not the solution to her loneliness problem. Taking on her problem won't solve it. A bit a dialectical strategy may be called for - validation on the one hand "Being at home feels like being stranded on an island" and a bit of SET "This sucks but you are the only one who can solve this." and probably a bit of boundaries which likely will be tested   "Sucks, your problem." and "As said, your problem." and <exit the stage  Being cool (click to insert in post) leaving her to her problem>.

The trick is not to take ownership of the problem. FF shows how to leave it with her

Excerpt
"What do you think a solution could be?"

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maxsterling
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« Reply #16 on: November 25, 2015, 03:17:48 PM »

FF- I see where you are coming from.  And I have thought about this approach, and maybe even tried it.  My worry here is upsetting her by telling her something she already knows and sounding patronizing. 

In her mind, she is agonizingly lonely and her life is meaningless and boring.  She knows that it is up to her to make friends, and her failures in that area are her issue.  Yet, her constant vocalizing of her loneliness, indicates to me that she wants my (and others' pity.   What other reason to vocalize this?  I know her therapists and AA sponsors have given her plenty of suggestions on how to make friends.

So if I put it back on her as suggested by FF, how will she interpret that? In her mind, I think almost anything I say will be invalidating, because she will hear:  "Oh, he doesn't want to spend time with me, and is instead telling me to make friends - I already know that!  Just because it is easy for him does not mean it is easy for me!  He doesn't understand!"

Right now, I am just listening for as long as I feel is appropriate, and saying things like, "I'm sorry, that's rough."  The other day, she was complaining of being lonely, and either she or I brought up the subject of going to an AA meeting, which she quickly dismissed as something she didn't want to do. 

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« Reply #17 on: November 25, 2015, 03:50:57 PM »

  If I laughed too loudly or spoke too long with a co-worker she would say that she was hurt that she didn't have that kind of relationship with me.

This one hit home for me.  Those of you that remember my wife snooping my email that she found open, complained that I "don't email her like I do other people".  I get similar comments when she see's me yukking it up and having a good time with people at parties.

Sigh.

FF

You can't stroll as freely when you are tiptoing through mine fields. As they don't believe they are a minefield they will never see this analogy, and trying to explain it leads to invalidation.

pwBPd define friend and foe as the difference between whether someone is meeting their needs or not. Outside friends have dont have the need to bend over backwards to keep the peace as partners do, and hence will not always supply these needs, and this ultimate means at some stage they will qualify as a being a foe

This is something we have to accept, our pwBPD is almost always going to be lonely and dependent on us. If we facilitate this not only do we feed it but we handicap ourselves. Jealousy of our independence is an inevitable byproduct.

Eventually they may even resent us for them being dependent on them (projection of blame) so they launch themselves on some selfinding independence bid, only to fail due to inability to fit around others, and fall back again. Again blaming others.
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« Reply #18 on: November 25, 2015, 06:55:03 PM »

The truth is you probably can't.  This is a product of her distorted thinking.  Only she can truly address it.  Remember that pwBPD have problems with object constancy.  When you aren't physically present it is sometimes hard for her to remember that you still love her and always will.  Probably the best that you can do is to validate her feelings of loneliness and gently reassure her that you love her.  pwBPD many times need to be reminded of that often.  One of her greatest fears is that you will stop loving her.  Separation, even temporarily, can trigger that.

Edit:  This is just an inherent part of a relationship with a partner with BPD.  It's hard to deal with, but there is no any way you can simply remove it.  I think the bigger issue is how you can deal with how this is affecting you.
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« Reply #19 on: November 26, 2015, 05:54:15 AM »

My H has gotten extremely jealous when we have, on rare events, met up with old friends from childhood. I can understand this from the perspective that I am more relaxed with them than I am with him- but I don't have the history of inadvertently triggering them or having my comments misinterpreted.

I don't like going to social events alone a lot, but I have gotten used to it.

I would have a better time hanging out with old friends alone and not having to deal with the jealous reaction.

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« Reply #20 on: November 26, 2015, 11:23:01 AM »

Don't worry about how she will take it.  Maybe ease her into it.  Start out asking for solutions that you and her can do together.  Limit her choices by saying you have an hour.  Once she is used to this, ease yourself out.                  

FF
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