How much effort to spend validating?

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hello,

I've been reading through some of the materials on this site as well as other peoples posts.  It is something that can help me deal with the high emotions that occur in my relationship with the pwuBPD.  I would just love to get to the point as some have suggested of having 5-6 months without a blowup episode.  Currently we go about 5-6 hours between such episodes but they might slow down for a week or two here and there if she is feeling better that month for whatever reason.

Anyway, I did have a question about the level of effort required to make this happen.  I read about being the emotional caretaker for the person and I'm concerned this will take up too much of my time to the exclusion of everything else if I decide to listen to everything she says and give a (usually inauthentic) validating statement.  I tried that the other day and she was able to detect my inauthenticity fairly rapidly.  Also I had a hard time determining which emotion she was experiencing, and when i said "it sounds like you feel angry" it actually enraged her more rather than her feeling validated as she views anger as a "bad" emotion.  I realize I said it wrong but that was the only thing I could think to say at that moment as validating.

I'm not really one to coddle someone, more of a tell it like it is and let the chips fall where they may kind of guy. But I'm seeing now there is a better way.  I just don't want to get swept into the thing where I'm required to listen and validate all day every day because that is just as bad as having to deal with tantrums.  Also I mean how do you stop yourself from getting triggered as well?  Today because I said I was too busy to talk she stormed over to grab her phone charger to go pout upstairs (also to show me she was angry over my statement) and it was wrapped around the coffee maker so when she pulled it it overturned the coffee maker, spilling it everywhere.  Then she leaves to go upstairs leaving me angry and having to clean up this huge mess.  Then I go upstairs like 30 minutes later after I had calmed down and she is mad at me as if I did the wrong.  I don't know why after all this time I still expect her to be normal and say "oops, sorry about the coffee maker" instead of upping the ante blaming me for something.

When I read the techniques they seem effective but I just wonder how to keep ones own emotions in check during this process and how much time to spend validating the person. 

[leggomyeggshell]

Hello,

I've been reading through some of the materials on this site as well as other peoples posts.  It is something that can help me deal with the high emotions that occur in my relationship with the pwuBPD.  I would just love to get to the point as some have suggested of having 5-6 months without a blowup episode.  Currently we go about 5-6 hours between such episodes but they might slow down for a week or two here and there if she is feeling better that month for whatever reason.

Anyway, I did have a question about the level of effort required to make this happen.  I read about being the emotional caretaker for the person and I'm concerned this will take up too much of my time to the exclusion of everything else if I decide to listen to everything she says and give a (usually inauthentic) validating statement.  I tried that the other day and she was able to detect my inauthenticity fairly rapidly.  Also I had a hard time determining which emotion she was experiencing, and when i said "it sounds like you feel angry" it actually enraged her more rather than her feeling validated as she views anger as a "bad" emotion.  I realize I said it wrong but that was the only thing I could think to say at that moment as validating.

I'm not really one to coddle someone, more of a tell it like it is and let the chips fall where they may kind of guy. But I'm seeing now there is a better way.  I just don't want to get swept into the thing where I'm required to listen and validate all day every day because that is just as bad as having to deal with tantrums.  Also I mean how do you stop yourself from getting triggered as well?  Today because I said I was too busy to talk she stormed over to grab her phone charger to go pout upstairs (also to show me she was angry over my statement) and it was wrapped around the coffee maker so when she pulled it it overturned the coffee maker, spilling it everywhere.  Then she leaves to go upstairs leaving me angry and having to clean up this huge mess.  Then I go upstairs like 30 minutes later after I had calmed down and she is mad at me as if I did the wrong.  I don't know why after all this time I still expect her to be normal and say "oops, sorry about the coffee maker" instead of upping the ante blaming me for something.

When I read the techniques they seem effective but I just wonder how to keep ones own emotions in check during this process and how much time to spend validating the person. 

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[steve195915]

The effort has to be continuous if you want to minimize the blow-ups.  Validation does get a little easier the more you do it as it eventually starts being natural or at least you're more aware of it, however, every person has their moods, and wants their own feelings validated or just wants a normal adult conversation.  It's frustrating and a constant challenge to keep your own emotions in check.  It's even more frustrating when you attempt to validate and maybe didn't say it exactly correctly, you still get a blow-up.   And even if you say everything perfectly, they can make something up completely irrational or untrue.  It's so hard not to start defending yourself but if you do expect the fireworks to follow.  Thats the life with a BPD partner.  And guess what,... .there's no cure! 

So in summary, validation does work and it will reduce the blow-ups.  You will slip up and there will be blow-ups, you may get exhausted always having to watch what you say and how you say it but it's definitely worth it to reduce the tensions.  I treat it like a game silently within my mind as I try to say the perfect thing to not trigger them and if I succeed I feel a sense of happiness as I tell myself I won that one.  Just dare not smile and show your satisfaction with yourself or that will trigger them too!   

Happy Validating!

[maxsterling]

First off, learning to not in-validate is much more important than validating.  I'd venture to say that 90% or more of people have natural tendencies to communicate in ways that are invalidating, sarcastic, or passive-aggressive.  Most of us consider this normal.  pwBPD get enraged.  Why are we like that?  Watch any TV show and you will see that behavior.   Likely our parents and families act this way, as well as our friends.   Society seems to function that way.  I've said it before, that the world is naturally an invalidating place if you choose to see it that way, and pwBPD choose to see it that way, and are therefor always miserable. 

As for validation - I hear where you are coming from.  True that validating will become second nature eventually, but I see your issue as something a little bit separate - not that you are exhausted from validating, but resent having to engage in such conversations at all.  I'm in the same boat as you.  My W is negative 90% of the time.  She comes home from work and spends an hour complaining.  I don't want to validate what she complains about, because I would rather be doing something else.  And I think that is the key - find a way to steer conversations to more constructive things.  Simply validating their rants solves nothing.  It avoids a blow up for now, but guaranteed the issue will come back again and again.  Exhausting.

In the example you gave, saying you did not have time to converse is invalidating, because she obviously felt there was something of great importance that you need to drop everything and discuss (and I am guessing it was not important to you).  In those situations, I think prior to stating you have little time, it is important to validate what she has to say is important, and try to make time when you are less busy to discuss:

"Yes, that sounds important, and we need to discuss that soon.  Right now I am working on xyz.  I would love to discuss this with you at 123 o'clock after I get done with xyz."

No guarantee the outcome will be much better, but worth a shot.

[leggomyeggshell]

Thank you guys, those responses were extremely helpful.

[Cat Familiar]

Hey leggo, I'm with you there on the validating. Some times I think "how much do I have to beat around the bush?" It would be nice to be able to talk with him like I speak with my friends. It just gets so f@cking old having to jump through all the hoops.

But in the long run, having learned how not to invalidate, sure helps. I can do that so much easier than I can do SET or DEARMAN, but I figure it's worth learning how to integrate those strategies into my normal conversation. I do have to be careful so that I don't sound like I'm reading from a script.

[ArleighBurke]

Try to practice validating. Kids? Workmates?

"I miss mommy"

    Invalidating: "Mummy's at work", "Mummy will be home soon".

    Validating: "I miss her too", "You must really love her"

"I'm so annoyed soccer practice got cancelled today".

    Invalidating: Anything about WHY it was cancelled, anything about next week's game

    Validating: "Yeah that sucks.", "I would be annoyed too... ."


I find I always get stuck on the thought "but if I were in your situation that event wouldn't have made me super annoyed" - but that is me judging her response. Instead I need to accept that she DOES feel super-annoyed, and accept that her feeling annoyed was actually not a choice of hers, so it doesn't matter whether her feeling is logical or not - I need to accept that her feeling IS THERE - therefore is "valid". Then try to sympathise.

[Cat Familiar]

Try to practice validating. Kids? Workmates?

"I miss mommy"

    Invalidating: "Mummy's at work", "Mummy will be home soon".

    Validating: "I miss her too", "You must really love her"

"I'm so annoyed soccer practice got cancelled today".

    Invalidating: Anything about WHY it was cancelled, anything about next week's game

    Validating: "Yeah that sucks.", "I would be annoyed too... ."


I find I always get stuck on the thought "but if I were in your situation that event wouldn't have made me super annoyed" - but that is me judging her response. Instead I need to accept that she DOES feel super-annoyed, and accept that her feeling annoyed was actually not a choice of hers, so it doesn't matter whether her feeling is logical or not - I need to accept that her feeling IS THERE - therefore is "valid". Then try to sympathise.

Good idea to practice on "easy" people. I've been doing that and my friendships are blooming. It's like adding fertilizer to roses. They looked good before, but when they have the nutrients they need, they look fabulous.

I'm realizing that my resistance and irritation about validating my husband stems from two sources: 1. I've had a pwBPD in my life ever since childhood and many of them were really needy  and 2. Because of living with pwBPD, I've developed a habit of protecting my emotions and minimizing them and I'm a bit jealous of those who are, in my viewpoint, so narcissistic that they just let those big emotions out and trample all over others.

[an0ught]

Hi,

When I read the techniques they seem effective but I just wonder how to keep ones own emotions in check during this process and how much time to spend validating the person. 

as much as you can do 

Seriously it helps and costs only little. If done right you spell out what is in the room anyways and thus clear some interfering foreign emotions off your mind. That helps you to think clearer. Validation helps since it makes clear what the other person projects and thus you experience your own emotions with less confusion.

This is a skill so exercise is key! Best training effect is achieved when working close to your limit. But please don't think only in terms of quantity - quality matters too. Stretch yourself and it gets easier and better over time. Your understanding of her increases. Your emotional reading becomes more accurate. Your vocabulary gets tuned. Your awareness of invalidating traps is developed. You too get a solid understanding of where better to stop with validation and work with boundaries.

On the other side there will be more time in a less distressed state causing less drama causing less distressed state. Over time self awareness increases and self validation ability may improve.