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Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse... Have you considered that being critical, judgmental, or invalidating toward the other parent, no matter what she or he just did will only make matters worse? Someone has to be do something. This means finding the motivation to stop making things worse, learning how to interrupt your own negative responses, body language, facial expressions, voice tone, and learning how to inhibit your urges to do things that you later realize are contributing to the tensions.
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Author Topic: uBPDex and ADD son  (Read 477 times)
Mutt
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« on: December 16, 2015, 09:00:28 PM »

My son has been tested and the Dr suspects that he has traits of GAD. He goes to a group for CBT for mental health. A couple of weeks ago it was student led conference at school and I spoke to S7's teacher and she said that he has his difficulties at school but overall he's a good kid and there was a lot of improvement since the beginning of the school year. She says that he seemed like he was anxious and depressed and he still has bouts at school were he is anxious. It seemed to me like he has a good rapport with his teacher, he was having fun with her joking around and she was sympathetic. She said that her daughter had suffered from depression.

That being said it was recommended by the teacher that he gets assessed because he has difficulties with reading and writing. I wasn't able to make it to the meeting at the school today with his teacher, a school Dr and school behavioral therapist. There may be someone else in there I'm not sure but I get debriefed next week. My ex wife sent an email and they suspect that it's ADD and medication should help him with concentration at school. We're going to make an appointment with his pediatrician and I suspect there may be another appointment with a specialist. I'm worried about him with school but what worries me most is that his mom blame shifts when she is having difficulties with him at home.

I think that she gets frustrated with him and I'm worried about how a mother with undiagnosed BPD affects a child with ADD. I know that I can't control his home environment with his mom but I can control my home environment. He does get dysregulated from time to time but he is learning skills to manage his emotional regulations with is group. I find that validation helps him too but I can tell since the beginning of the school year his mom was worried about his academics at school and was very rigid and blaming dad that he's failing in school though she is aware that he has traits of GAD. I think that my son is a reflection of her because she is clingy and mothers with BPD can be enmeshed with the kids. S

She's floundering and blame shifting. This school year has been a lot of drama with mom and S7. I'm worried that things are going to be harder for him on his time with mom because she gets frustrated with him. Are there parents that co-parent with an ex partner with personality disorder traits and a child with special needs that can relate with this?

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livednlearned
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« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2015, 09:28:58 PM »

Hi Mutt,

My son is diagnosed with special needs, too, tho my ex is no longer in our lives. When N/BPDx was involved, it was a challenge every step of the way, largely because he saw S14 as having "flaws" that I think N/BPDx experienced in deeply personal ways.

S14 was identified as gifted, and has a learning disability. Here in the US he is labeled "twice exceptional" which actually made S14 feel very isolated because he really was not belonging anywhere. N/BPDx liked the gifted label, and blamed me for the learning disability. Which is probably somewhat accurate, since dyslexia runs in my family and I struggle with it too. Dyslexia is also worse when there is stress and anxiety.

I know you're not asking this specifically, but schools aren't very good at diagnosing dyslexia and tend to over diagnose ADD. And some expressions of dyslexia can be confused for ADD. You mention in the title of your thread ADD, and then GAD in your post. Does your son have both?

Since your son is young and they are recommending medicine, if you're at all wondering about dyslexia (which can't be treated with medication), I recommend the book The Dyslexic Advantage. Most people think dyslexia is about letter reversal -- this is only one expression of dyslexia. The book is excellent at identifying other ways that dyslexics struggle and excel. It helped me learn how to advocate for S14, and try to help him advocate for himself, instead of me becoming yet another adult who was thinking he wasn't smart.

If he is dyslexic, he will start to feel stupid about his struggles with reading/writing -- and if he is smart, it almost makes it worse because he knows the answers and can't seem to get the rest of the brain to make things happen. Most of the psycho educational tests here in the US don't even include dyslexia, and teachers are not well educated about it, especially when it comes to the more recent research. If your son is intelligent, and dyslexic, he may be using some very clever workarounds to help him get by.

Our kids go through a lot, and then they keep going through it, over and over and over.  :'(  It's good that your son is getting attention now. Depression in a teen is particularly awful, and at least S7 has some time to develop skills before middle school hits and then high school after that.
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« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2015, 10:34:16 PM »

Hi livednlearned,

That's exactly it. She blames with what she takes personally and thinks that are flaws on dad.

My son was assessed and the report said traits of GAD and that they didn't want to give him a diagnosis at his age and that it could be ADHD but they wanted to follow up with him every few months. ADD was from the school's assessment. I spoke to the school yesterday and they mentioned a Dr so I'm guessing that ADD would be the Dr's suggestion at the meeting. I'll find out more at my debriefing with the school next week.

When I read medication and ADD it had me worried that it was over diagnosed too. My son does sometimes get his letters backwards when we do his homework. I wouldn't say he's not smart but I think that what makes it hard for him is that he feels bad because he struggles. If it's a book that he's familiar with for a home reading book generally he's fine. If it's a book that he's not familiar with he gets frustrated at the onset and he cane be hard on himself. I'm not familiar with dyslexia although the thought crossed my mind when he was reading letters backwards getting letters mixed up.

I appreciate your response and will look for the Dyslexic Advantage. I worry about him because he's a really good kid and I find that he can be hard on himself. I'm trying to work with him but it's mom and how rigid and critical she can be and not empathizing with how that would make the kids feel. It's the additional stress and anxiety that he doesn't need.

I agree it's good that it's getting the attention now and that he us learning skills fir self management, skills that a lot of kids from his class could use too.
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« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2015, 12:59:33 AM »

I would be very cautious of a school trying to diagnose or even suggest ADHD or ADD.  Do you see that in your child in environments other than school? 

Some schools won't address dyslexia as a special need, unfortunately. 

You mention the school has a Dr.  It is probably a school psychologist, but I doubt they are at the PhD level.  Even if they are, have they evaluated your child for behavioral disorders?  Academic achievement?  IQ?  Pattern of strengths and weaknesses?  What are they basing this on?

It might be worth the money to have a private psychologist evaluate your son for academic achievement so that you know where he stands, what his strengths and weaknesses are.

What has the school done, and what can they do, to accommodate your S7 before asking him to be diagnosed and medicated for ADHD?  You have the right to ask this and request changes to his learning environment, I believe.

In my opinion it's ok for a child to reread a favorite book while they're building their reading skills.  I'm not sure if the school is telling you otherwise.  If your son is going through difficult times emotionally, he might just need to reread a favorite book or two until he can move through this time.

Sometimes gifted children can get immensely frustrated when the can't easily master a task.  They know how it should sound, look, be, etc., and if they can't make it that way immediately, they feel very frustrated.

I really distrust teachers' abilities to suggest diagnoses for children.  I've met too many who, although they have a lot of experience, they do not realize what they don't know, and they aren't willing to open their mind to different possibilities (e.g. a child can be dyslexic and gifted - yes, I just spoke with a teacher 2 weeks ago who didn't want to consider this).

My D7 doesn't appear to get homework support at her dad's house.  In first grade she would cry when she came back from a weekend there and realized she hadn't done her HW.  I met with the school counselor and teacher, and we agreed D did not have to turn in or even try to complete the homework when she was with her dad.  This year D7 usually does her homework when with him, but it is completely initiated by her, and she doesn't get help.  It's such a fine line to walk.  Lately my D has been coming home from time at her dad's chewing her hair and fairly hyper, as if she's stressed.  Could be an age thing.  I have noticed, since she was a baby, that the times she is difficult behaviorally are when she is tired.  When she's tired now she starts to get fidgety, impulsive, and hyper.  Do you notice this pattern with your S?  I have conversations with my D about noticing how she feels.  I might even say, gee, you are grabbing a lot tonight, and I notice your body seems a little out of control (e.g. if she's flailing around or bumping into me or impulsively grabbing things).  Remember how we've talked about sometimes it seems like this might be your body's signal that you're tired?  How are you feeling right now?  Maybe it's a good time for bed/mindfulness exercises your SC teaches you, etc. 



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« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2015, 01:03:34 AM »

You might check out author Elizabeth Crary.  She has some choose-your-own-adventure style books about feelings and actions/reactions.  Might be a great resource for you and your S7.
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« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2015, 09:08:48 AM »

Sorry to harp on the dyslexic thing. It may not at all fit S7, only that you mentioned the struggles with reading and writing, plus the ADD diagnosis and these are lightning rods for people like me who have a history with dyslexia. Ulysses is right about some schools not classifying dyslexia as a special need, at least here in the U.S. It might be different where you are -- and here, there is a grassroots movement making some changes at the state and federal level called Decoding Dyslexia. They're mainly parent advocating for their kids, but they also have good educational materials to help you understand what exactly dyslexia is. People always think it's letter reversals and that's not quite accurate.

Experts say that many kids reverse their letters until about the age of 8. I don't know developmentally why 8 is the magic year, but dyslexia is not only letter reversals. Usually you will see other signs. Some dyslexic kids are fantastic at 3D projects like building, what they called "material reasoning." In the book Dyslexic Advantage, the authors talk about four different strengths that kids with dyslexia have, which is why it might be useful for understanding S7. If your son is dyslexic, and you find his strengths, it's possible you can shield him from his mom's negative impact by helping him understand what is good about the way he thinks and approaches things. Every time S14 struggled with something, I found an example of someone who was successful despite having that same shortcoming. There is a high degree of dyslexia in architects and even engineers, for example. Many of them have skills and strengths that are neither taught nor assessed in school. If your son is dyslexic, there is a good chance you will be the one educating the schools and others in his life.

I agree with Ulysses about getting a private psych-edu eval if you can afford it. School psychologists in my district do not look for social-emotional issues, and they work in a system with very limited funds -- they have a vested interest in spending their special needs budgets very frugally. Maybe it's different where you are, but special needs is wrapped up in a lot of laws here and limited funds, and so it's best to be leery of anyone inside that system evaluating your child. They have a different agenda.

With your ex and son, try to get ahead of the train as much as possible and help him see how his struggles could be connected to strengths (secret powers). I almost hope for his sake he is dyslexic because there is a very positive and supportive community out there, and many talented people he can look to for encouragement.
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« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2015, 11:41:16 AM »

Hi Ulysees,

I agree. I received the email from my ex wife last night. She said I just wanted to tell you. I have a meeting next week with the school and they will debrief me. I'm guess it will be like the last time when I asked for my son to be assesed. I had a meeting with the school behavioral therapist, social worker, child psychologist, teacher and there was someone there but I can't recall what her role was.

That's a good question, I don't see that with my son in other environments. What I see is that he is hard on himself and has said that he had wanted to kill himself when he was 6 years of age. He emotionally dysregulates and sometimes he will hyper ventilate. He can be easily triggered by the tone of his voice from his sister (D 9) in the morning when we are getting prepared. I can understand that he may now have had enough sleep and he's tired but it's not always necessarily the case. I make sure that the kids go to bed early enough so that they can get adequate sleep and there's the occasional late night on the weekends or on holidays.

He gets a long with other kids well and plays well but he can be very sensitive if someone says something about him. I don't mean that someone is making fun of him but it's like he'll blame something or someone else. I can see that being normal for his age but it's the emotional dysregulates that may follow sometimes. I had thaught that maybe he has autisim because he has difficulties hearing sometimes. I will admit that I would get frustrated with him if I called him but I will go to him instead of calling from a different floor because I don't think that he will hear me. Sometimes it feels like I have to tell him what follows when we're we're doing something and I have to tell him.

You have a good point with reading as well. I had not thought about that that it's Ok to re-read something. I will do that if a book is too difficult for him. He struggles and he is behind compared to his older sister at that age but I think that he reads fairly well. I think that he's embarassed about how he reads and I encourage him by telling him I like listening to him read. Thank you for the suggestion with Elizabeth Crary, I do find that he can have difficulties articulating what he feels and I try to help him.

Livednlearned,

You're not harping Smiling (click to insert in post) It's good to have information about dyslexia and I would be disappointed if my son was misdiagnosed. The report that I got from mental health services here in Canada was that he has traits of GAD and that have not ruled out ADD but it's too early to tell. I didn't know that about letter reversal and that was up to the age of 8. I appreciate your advice with coaching him about how to make him understand that he has his way of approaching things and that's Ok.

I have a feeling that his mom views it as flaws and I don't share the same views. I know that he feels shame and if she criticizes him it doesn't help him. I think that it's a good suggestion ( from both ) to find out what his soft areas and good areas are with a P. She made an appointment for the pediatrician and said I was welcome to go with her. I'll make my own appointment because she's throw me under the bus at the appointment if we go together.
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« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2016, 01:09:47 PM »

He's diagnosed Developmental Coordination Disorder. They have an occupational therapist with him in class now.

It makes sense with his scissor cutting, handwriting, emotional regulation, anxiety.

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« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2016, 03:30:21 PM »

Mutt, my son (now an adult) was diagnosed ADD (no hyperactivity) and then several years later with dysgraphia. The geographic was likened to his brain processing beautifully,like a computer, but then having the printer break down when it was time to put it all on paper. His handwriting was atrocious, and note-taking was agony.  And he was also in Gifted programs.

Great that the coordination challenge is being recognized now.
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« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2016, 04:08:57 PM »

Mutt, my son (now an adult) was diagnosed ADD (no hyperactivity) and then several years later with dysgraphia. The geographic was likened to his brain processing beautifully,like a computer, but then having the printer break down when it was time to put it all on paper. His handwriting was atrocious, and note-taking was agony.  And he was also in Gifted programs.

Great that the coordination challenge is being recognized now.

He's so hard on himself when we start his homework and I find that I can sooth him. I saw how he gets frustrated with getting dressed or tying his shoes. I agree it's good that it's being recognized now. He's such a good boy and he makes friends easily.

Mom does look for the best interest of the kids academically and she's good with him with his homework. I was worried that she would get frustrated with him but I have a feeling that she can empathize with him. I'm worried about if she's going to split him black and his self esteem.
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« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2016, 10:06:52 PM »

Mutt,

Doesn't everyone like homework?  Smiling (click to insert in post)

I can see how trying disciplined tasks can be really frustrating for him. It's more than defiance, it a way he is wired. Though the concern that his mom may get frustrated with him enough to split him black (depending upon how much she sees him as a validation avatar for her self-esteem), this may be an opportunity to mesh goals with her.

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« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2016, 10:16:33 PM »

Doesn't everyone like homework?  Smiling (click to insert in post)

Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

I can see how trying disciplined tasks can be really frustrating for him. It's more than defiance, it a way he is wired. Though the concern that his mom may get frustrated with him enough to split him black (depending upon how much she sees him as a validation avatar for her self-esteem), this may be an opportunity to mesh goals with her.

That's a really good idea  Idea I will do that. Thanks!
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« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2016, 04:32:54 AM »

Not sure how it works in your native land, but where I am, if the child is having difficulty "accessing the curriculum" an evaluation is done by the school district, and then an IEP (Individualized Education Plan) is developed to dictate what "services" the child receives.  There are categories within the IEP and depending on the category that the child lands in, the available services vary.  All of these services cost the school district.  I have been through this process going on five years with a difficult, defiant S11 and a uBPD/NPD ex.  Mood altering medications are strictly up to the parents and the school district does not suggest medication.  I believe this is a policy.  So it seems odd if someone at school, regardless of the process in your naïve land, would immediately suggest medication.  Most in the know will tell you that medication alone is not enough to help development.  Medication supplemented with therapy is the better recipe.

My ex plays defense with S11s needs, if I say "let's do Y" she goes immediately without discussion to "Z." In the end this has resulted in whatever the approach chosen to fail and S11 continues to suffer unknowingly.  Ex is enmeshed and idealizes S11 recognizing only the good parts about him and denying what he does that is bad, ie. hitting the principal, hitting his aid, not able to stay in daycare, not able to ride the bus to/from school, etc, etc.  It is really a case of her not begin able to see in him her traits.  Traits of herself that she has denied for a lifetime.     
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« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2016, 08:14:01 PM »

Scraps66,

You're right with the meds. I told my ex that we have to look long view and ADD is generalized. I would be sad if he were misdiagnosed.

My ex does try with the kids and she does blame shift when she's flaundering. I agree with Turk. As dysfunctional as my ex is I know she cares for the kids. She blame shifts. It's a chronic pattern when she flaunders. I just stopped reacting to it. But that's her and not necessarily your ex.

Give an example of X and Y. Maybe there's a gap we can figure out.
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