Passports for Kids

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

My ex NPD/BPDw had sprung on me about a month ago, that she was considering taking our S8 and S11 on a cruise in the spring, maybe over spring break.  I didn't think anything of it at the time and didn't say anything.  Well now, I've checked the school schedule and Spring Break falls within March. 

For as long as I can remember, and every year since we split, I have been taking the boys to FLA for five days the month of March.  However, until this year Spring Break has never fallen within March.  This year it does, so I assumed I could take them over that week.  Ex had it all figured out, I had forgotten that the Easter Holiday also consumes spring break per our Order.  So she has them for the entire week.  She won't give up the week.  Instead, if I want to do the FLA trip I will have to take the boys out of school.

A cruise.  Now I see, this rivals Florida.  I can't think of any 8 or 11 yr olds in our neighborhood that can say they have been on a cruise.  It's way over the top in my opinion.  Especially if I factor in the 2/3 weeks of go-away vacations she takes them on during the summer. 

She's pressuring me and NPD-casually threatening me that she doesn't always have to be so accommodating to my "requests."  She wants to get them passports.  For the cruise.  Both parents have to be present.

My real question, is there any harm in getting a Passport for kids?  I know there will be a fight over who "controls" the passports and it likely won't be me.   

[scraps66]

My ex NPD/BPDw had sprung on me about a month ago, that she was considering taking our S8 and S11 on a cruise in the spring, maybe over spring break.  I didn't think anything of it at the time and didn't say anything.  Well now, I've checked the school schedule and Spring Break falls within March. 

For as long as I can remember, and every year since we split, I have been taking the boys to FLA for five days the month of March.  However, until this year Spring Break has never fallen within March.  This year it does, so I assumed I could take them over that week.  Ex had it all figured out, I had forgotten that the Easter Holiday also consumes spring break per our Order.  So she has them for the entire week.  She won't give up the week.  Instead, if I want to do the FLA trip I will have to take the boys out of school.

A cruise.  Now I see, this rivals Florida.  I can't think of any 8 or 11 yr olds in our neighborhood that can say they have been on a cruise.  It's way over the top in my opinion.  Especially if I factor in the 2/3 weeks of go-away vacations she takes them on during the summer. 

She's pressuring me and NPD-casually threatening me that she doesn't always have to be so accommodating to my "requests."  She wants to get them passports.  For the cruise.  Both parents have to be present.

My real question, is there any harm in getting a Passport for kids?  I know there will be a fight over who "controls" the passports and it likely won't be me.   

[Nope]

DH would never agree to getting the kids passports unless there was a rock solid order in the court stating that he would control the passports under penalty of a Contempt finding and full reimbursement of all associated court related fees if she failed to return the passports in a timely manner. But the kids BPD mom has a documented pattern of not taking proper precautions to keep the kids safe. She's too self absorbed and too careless not to end up taking her eyes off of them in a less-than-safe foreign country and kidnapping happens.

Also, DH likes to know where the kids generally are when she has them. It's one thing for her to disappear for three days (between phone calls) not letting him know she's taken them out of state. It would be entirely another thing to find out she'd taken them down to Mexico and told them not to say anything to him about it until back in his care. (She used to like to go with her friends over the border to party while she and DH were married.)

I'm not trying to scare you, but I'm sure you've seen posts on these boards to the same effect. Bottom line, even if she will throw a temper tantrum and make you out to be the bad guy to the kids over it, this is one of those times where the easier thing might simply be to just say no.

[Turkish]

Nope brought up.a good point about the PD'd parent's primary focus (themselves). My simple question would be, do you consider her a flight risk?

My Ex floated the idea of taking the kids to Mexico (where she is from) in about 3 years. I demurred, but my thoughts are that I want the kids to be old enough to be able to use a calling card if there are issues. My extreme (safe?) thought is that they can go anywhere they wish when they are 18.

We took my buddy's then 11 year old son into Canada about 6 years ago. He had a letter from his Ex (I presume notarized), and they still questioned the kid. I've had two wildly different experiences at the Canadian border, so I'm not sure you can count on border agents to enforce boundaries. A cruise sounds looser regarding such controls.

I would check whether either parent needs to have a letter from the other parent to take the kids across borders, passport or not.

[scraps66]

This is a very high functioning NPD/BPD, I don't see her as a flight risk.  But I can see her as the keeper of the keys and passports.  Meaning, she would revel in the position of being able to withhold passports on me whenever I wanted to use them.

[ForeverDad]

A huge issue is the Quid Pro Quo aspect.  Scenario: You jump to allow passports needed for her vacation.  Next summer you decide on a trip to Your Destination and she obstructs, saying No or withholds okay or passports until she is satisfied with whatever interrogations she decides to make.

If you do decide to agree on passports, you need clear written statement/agreement from her, or reciprocated agreement, that (1) passports are not leverage for bargaining or demands, (2) cannot be withheld from the other parent, (3) do not replace or void other requirements in the order for travel outside the country, (4) you will be the one holding the passports when not in use, (5) they will be made available to the traveling parent a week before travel begins, (6) and any other required travel vaccinations, documents, letters or signatures also a week in advance, and (7) the prior notwithstanding, passport use and safekeeping are subject to the order of the court.

Do you feel you could set a boundary that when they are not in use then you are the caretaker of the passports?  She's snagged so much of parenting over the years, I figure she'll object of course but if she really wants to be MOTY and time gets shorter then she might cave on this.  Maybe, though a long shot.  Would you feel okay setting that boundary with the items I listed above?

Frankly, because you have real concerns of her withholding them from you at the last minute and court sitting on it hands while you stew, you do need some protection.  Are you comfortable saying, This Way Or Wait who knows how long for court to handle?  Then she would be stuck deciding whether to agree or risk postponing the trip.

I'd hate to be in your shoes if you had no structured rules in place and an upcoming vacation out of country.  I wonder, has it already been booked and paid for?

[scraps66]

FD, I will try and set that boundary.  I just today floated the idea of getting a formal agreement and that I would keep the passports when not in use.  The response I got was that she didn't understand why I would need to e "in control" of the documents and that she could get a court order for me to comply with her request.  I will dig my heels in.

My other issue is just the lavishness.  My S8 and S11 just got iPhone5s for Christmas.  I have an iPhone5 - an older one than theirs.  It's way too much.  As for the vacations.  Ex does everything possible to stretch out her two weeks of vacation each summer.  Usually taking two weeks out of three and the middle week gives me two overnights.  This has been like clockwork.

So maybe what I also need to do is change our order to put more structure on the vacation taking.  If we both exercise our two weeks each summer, that's four f'g weeks of vacation in a summer.  It's too much to me and I take these guys to FLA every spring.  So I take that as one of my weeks of vacation for the year. 

She wants to take them on a cruise over spring break.  I know of NO 8 and 11 yr olds that have been on a cruise.