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Author Topic: Painted black after vacation  (Read 957 times)
Jessica84
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« on: January 01, 2016, 11:01:07 PM »

I really need a safe place to vent and get advice.

Just took weeklong trip with uBPDbf. Everything went better than expected, except I got a cold on the first day. Still, I trudged thru it and stayed positive. On the last day our airline delayed all our flights and even sent us to the wrong city. We didn't get home to 5am (instead of our original 10pm arrival time). This whole ordeal set him in a bad mood. Understandably, but he took it all out on me. He was nice to everyone at the airport EXCEPT for me. He made it obvious too. Laughing and joking with others, snarling at me.

When we finally got back to his place I decided to go home (I live 20 mins away), which I guess angered him more because he wanted to keep arguing and blaming me. But what else could I do? I was exhausted and tired of being his target of attacks. Then I got the silent treatment for 2 days.

Today he text-bombs me this ridiculously long list of complaints about me and every thing I did wrong on the trip. Unbelievably false and rude. Weird accusations, including how I had a lot of hostility toward him. I responded with "sounds like you have a lot of hostility toward me. That's quite a long list." He says it wasn't a long list, then kept going... .The texts were so long I had to keep scrolling! He even brought up past issues that didn't even happen on this trip!

I so wanted to defend myself and correct him on all the things he got wrong, but what's the point? I tried to keep my answers short because I was in no mood to validate him after all his ugliness, or to make things worse. He finally ended with "Let's talk later"... .which in the past meant he's thinking of breaking up.

His reaction to one bad day at the airport (neither of it our fault) after such a nice vacation is what sucks the most about BPD. There is no reasoning with him or getting to see the trip was mostly white, with only a minor black spot. Nope, it's all black now. And all my fault.

Most of his accusations are things he did to me, yet he's got it the other way around. Obviously he's not going to apologize. But what's worse, it's like he's expecting an apology from me. I've done nothing wrong or I would gladly apologize. But isn't that validating the invalid?

Not sure what to say or do the next time he calls or texts. That day at the airport everything I said/did was wrong - he either barked at me, criticized me or ignored me. When I got my book out to read, he name-called me and accused me of ignoring him. I couldn't win if I talked, or if I didn't talk. The flight delays every hour made it worse. When we finally boarded, he even took a different seat on the plane to avoid sitting next to me. It was a stressful day for me too, but obviously he didn't care.

Today everything I said via text made him madder. So now I'm worried about the next conversation. If I ignore his calls/texts, he'll be mad. If I respond, he'll be mad. He'll want to keep telling me how I ruined yet another trip for him. No way to change that perception, but he's dead wrong. I can't JADE, I can't reason with him, and right now I'm too mad/tired of his crap to validate him. I don't know how to navigate this. It's so twisted. Will it blow over on its own? What should I do?
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« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2016, 05:44:02 AM »

Hi Jessica

If my BPD triggers this way I believe I am in a no win situation.

I firmly state that he is being very unfair and I do not wish to discuss this any further until you have calmed down and we can talk about it properly. Then I carry on with my life. I used to argue back and then it would carry the mood on longer until the situation resulted in us breaking up. I try to wipe it out now to discuss later but usually once he's calmed down it's all forgot about. This is especially important for you to remember when your getting stressed about it. It will stay with you and he will have moved passed it. I try to let all this behaviour wash over my head x
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« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2016, 06:53:55 AM »

I don't know how to navigate this. It's so twisted. Will it blow over on its own? What should I do?

Hi Jessica. I'm sorry you have to go through this type of experience. I recognise the emotions you're having from my own BPD experience and the emotional pain of being targeted by someone who's projecting their pain on to you as a scapegoat.

What should you do? It's almost a cliché here, but I believe you should take care of yourself. We choose our boundaries of what we will allow or not allow. It's tempting to stay around someone who is dysregulated and projecting. Especially if the person is a loved one. We want to care for them, help them.

The truth is they need to help themselves and our offering ourselves as the target can some times validate the invalid.

I also discovered that the final trigger, in your case the flight problems, is often not the real problem or issue. I had a two week cycle with my pwBPD, where her frustrations with me would build up over two weeks and then explode like Vesuvius. 2 or 3 days of silent treatment and then the cycle would start again. The silent treatment became my favourite part Laugh out loud (click to insert in post). I used it as a time to connect with old friends, do things for me, and enjoy my own company.

Have you established any boundaries with him around how he is allowed to speak to you/ treat you?
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« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2016, 08:35:22 AM »

I really need a safe place to vent and get advice.

Just took weeklong trip with uBPDbf. Everything went better than expected, except I got a cold on the first day. Still, I trudged thru it and stayed positive. On the last day our airline delayed all our flights and even sent us to the wrong city. We didn't get home to 5am (instead of our original 10pm arrival time). This whole ordeal set him in a bad mood. Understandably, but he took it all out on me. He was nice to everyone at the airport EXCEPT for me. He made it obvious too. Laughing and joking with others, snarling at me.

When we finally got back to his place I decided to go home (I live 20 mins away), which I guess angered him more because he wanted to keep arguing and blaming me. But what else could I do? I was exhausted and tired of being his target of attacks. Then I got the silent treatment for 2 days.

Today he text-bombs me this ridiculously long list of complaints about me and every thing I did wrong on the trip. Unbelievably false and rude. Weird accusations, including how I had a lot of hostility toward him. I responded with "sounds like you have a lot of hostility toward me. That's quite a long list." He says it wasn't a long list, then kept going... .The texts were so long I had to keep scrolling! He even brought up past issues that didn't even happen on this trip!

I so wanted to defend myself and correct him on all the things he got wrong, but what's the point? I tried to keep my answers short because I was in no mood to validate him after all his ugliness, or to make things worse. He finally ended with "Let's talk later"... .which in the past meant he's thinking of breaking up.

His reaction to one bad day at the airport (neither of it our fault) after such a nice vacation is what sucks the most about BPD. There is no reasoning with him or getting to see the trip was mostly white, with only a minor black spot. Nope, it's all black now. And all my fault.

Most of his accusations are things he did to me, yet he's got it the other way around. Obviously he's not going to apologize. But what's worse, it's like he's expecting an apology from me. I've done nothing wrong or I would gladly apologize. But isn't that validating the invalid?

Not sure what to say or do the next time he calls or texts. That day at the airport everything I said/did was wrong - he either barked at me, criticized me or ignored me. When I got my book out to read, he name-called me and accused me of ignoring him. I couldn't win if I talked, or if I didn't talk. The flight delays every hour made it worse. When we finally boarded, he even took a different seat on the plane to avoid sitting next to me. It was a stressful day for me too, but obviously he didn't care.

Today everything I said via text made him madder. So now I'm worried about the next conversation. If I ignore his calls/texts, he'll be mad. If I respond, he'll be mad. He'll want to keep telling me how I ruined yet another trip for him. No way to change that perception, but he's dead wrong. I can't JADE, I can't reason with him, and right now I'm too mad/tired of his crap to validate him. I don't know how to navigate this. It's so twisted. Will it blow over on its own? What should I do?

Been there done that with my SO.  What I found is that trying to defend myself from the attacks and false accusations would just elevate the whole thing.  Engaging in any of the specific attacks just makes matters worse. 

The techniques that seemed to work best was validation (however that doesn't mean you validate the false accusations), or just plain ignoring what they are saying. 

For validation, I would validate what they are feeling.  For instance, I would say something on the lines of "I can understand your anger and frustration if the trip didn't go as well as you hoped for, especially with all the difficultly of the flights back."  Also if you felt you didn't act the best way at all times you can add a general statement like "If there were things that I did that made you feel that way I am sorry for that and I will try to improve myself so in the future they don't happen again."  Again don't respond to any of the specifics and don't prolong the conversation or respond to it any further.

The other option that works well is to just not let it bother you and ignore it.  When he texts the nasty things, don't acknowledge them but do text back like they were never said and everything is normal.  For instance if you usually see each other the next day, when he texts nasty things, just respond with "I'm looking forward to seeing you tomorrow. what would you like to do?"  This seems to really throw them for a loop. 

Also one time when my SO was going on and on how terrible of a person I was and she was ending our relationship, I just stayed calm and said "What I understand that you are saying is that you are very unhappy with me and are ending the relationship, that makes me sad as I love you very much however, if that's what you want I will have to move on with my life without you. no matter how difficult and painful that is for me".  That response shocked her I think and the next thing out of her mouth was "I never said it was over", and her attitude was much different. 

 
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Jessica84
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« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2016, 10:02:36 AM »

Thank you all for the responses. I have maintained good boundaries on rude comments for about a year now. They have worked well. If he got ugly, I would leave or get off the phone with him. Eventually, all the rude stuff stopped before I had to leave or hang up.

The problem with this situation is I was stuck at an airport with him. Like a hostage. I stayed calm and tried to use my boundaries the best I could to "leave" the situation several times. I walked away to use my phone to get better reception - after he had demanded I call my mom and car rental companies to find us a ride to our home airport, since we were flying to a different city. Luckily, my phone didn't work unless I walked near a window. Still, he was mad I couldn't talk from where we were sitting. Then I told him I wanted to go to the gift shop. He followed me there, bought gifts for other people and joked around with the cashiers, completely ignoring me. When we sat back down at the gate he continued berating or ignoring me. Then I went to the bathroom. When I came back he scolded me for leaving my phone and luggage, and he accused me of trying to lose my stuff - I left it with him! He told me not to "act psycho" even though I was calm as a cucumber.

His texts brought up things that didn't even happen on this trip. He had set advance "rules" of things we shouldn't discuss since talking about work or politics have been issues for us on past trips. I steered clear of these topics and we had no problems! Until the airport, that is... .

I don't know what I could have done differently. I validated the frustrations he was feeling - easy to do since I (and everyone else stuck at the airport) was feeling it too. But his had nowhere to go so they all landed on me. Just felt like he kept pushing and pushing to try to upset me. I tried not taking the bait, but it was draining me. In his text he claimed I was the one "looking for a fight"... .projection much? I'm leaving him alone to calm down in his own time. But if he keeps coming at me with false accusations and criticisms I'm likely to lose it! Or at least block his calls for awhile.
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« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2016, 10:50:45 AM »

Jessica, you did really well. I dont think you could do much differently given the circumstances. It's a tough one when you're a captive audience. Mine would wait until we were driving to the airport or other  important event where she knew she had me captive and then started to unleash the projections. I think it stands to reason, bar unplanned events like your airport experience, that we should avoid these captive moments. When life catches us by surprise we just muddle through it as best we can ( just like you did)

I just read an article about these rages and thought of you.

"It's almost  impossible to avoid personalizing the Borderline's abusive behaviors--but his/her rage isn't about you. It's misdirected feelings of disappointment, anger and hurt he/she's stored for a lifetime"

Hang in there.
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« Reply #6 on: January 02, 2016, 02:00:32 PM »

Thanks Moselle. I'm trying not to take it personal, but it was VERY personal.

He just texted he has my cold. Yes, MY cold. Yet another thing for him to blame me for. 
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« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2016, 02:26:42 PM »

Tell him he's lucky to have someone close enough to catch a cold from Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2016, 02:59:02 PM »

Jessica,

I've come to the conclusion that to be in a "successful relationship" with a pwBPD, one really has to learn "not to give a damn." As a recovering codependent, that's a challenge for me. But as I grow stronger in love and respect for myself and my ability to find humor in nearly every situation, I'm getting better at doing just that.

I do love my husband, but I don't always love his behavior. I want the best for him, but  for his insignificant "crises" and grudges--I can remove myself (when I set my mind to it) and say in my inner dialog, "f you, you whiner." Then I'm sure to get a sense of amusement which can help me distance myself from the disaster du jour.

I wish it weren't so, but this is the reality of living with him. My choice is to leave the relationship, but the pluses ultimately outweigh the minuses, though at times, it looks like a draw.

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“The Four Agreements  1. Be impeccable with your word.  2. Don’t take anything personally.  3. Don’t make assumptions.  4. Always do your best. ”     ― Miguel Ruiz, The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom
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« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2016, 03:31:44 PM »

Thanks Cat. I used to chant in my head things like "awww, what a cute little child throwing a tantrum" or "this poor man is in turmoil" or "not my monkeys, not my circus". Until one day I actually said the monkey one out loud. Ooops Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

I have come to realize his limitations and lowered my expectations. I can take a lot of his nonsense in stride... .but 15 hours straight with no escape was too much. I need time to go over this. In a way, I'm glad he's sick. Terrible thing to say I know... .but it means he's less likely to call and bug me or invite me over. I don't want to talk to him or see him yet. Besides, I'm giving him all the compassion he gave me when I was sick. None. I just need time to get over this bad vibe. I don't have the same on/off switch he has for getting over things.
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« Reply #10 on: January 02, 2016, 09:40:23 PM »

And that is your answer. Take space away from him until you're not feeling hurt or pissed.

BTW, He needed to blow up for his own reasons. He picked you to do it at. Because he's used to picking you for that role. Or because you were there. It didn't have ANYTHING to do with your actions making it happen.
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« Reply #11 on: January 02, 2016, 10:03:05 PM »

It's hard being in a relationship with people; at some point they will disappoint and or frustrate you and difficult people might even convince you it was your fault all along.  There is something unique to every relationship which only you know about.  His concerns have some validity, as do yours.  Relationships are hard.  I hope if he is deeply flawed there is some way to extricate yourself.  I hope you have wisdom to determine when that point has been reached and if his concerns have any validity or if yours have been taken seriously.  If you keep compromising you might end up in my situation where I am lucky to leave the house
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« Reply #12 on: January 03, 2016, 08:04:01 AM »

I think this was the setting for the perfect storm. A long delay like that is frustrating for both of you. He was out of sorts and so were you- which means you were run down too, and your usual resistance to these kinds of things could wear thin. And you were a captive audience.

When we visit mom, I see a difference between her behavior with me- and I drive there and a sibling who flies home. I have a car and can leave at any moment ( and I have walked out when she dysregulates) whereas the sibling has no car and a fixed plane reservation. She tends to dysregulate more with this sibling- who can not just drive off until she calms down.

Some of the most difficult moments with my H have been in a hotel room or long drive in a car. I have become more aware that when we are away from home -some environmental effects are at play: we are not in our usual space and new places can be stressful- we are usually cooped up in a smaller space than usual- there is more time together which doesn't give us some space to unwind- and I am without the boundary of walking away. One thing my T spoke about is not having serious discussions if one or both of us is tired, hungry, stressed- which I imagine both of you were after that long delay.

I think you are right to get some time to yourself to unwind and think clearly about this. I am not making excuses for your bf's behavior. A plane delay doesn't justify acting like a tired toddler, but this is what happened. It is understandable that his ability to reset is different than yours. You are two different people and you can decide what you feel you wish to do about this.
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« Reply #13 on: January 03, 2016, 04:57:00 PM »

Thank you all. Very, very insightful. I don't think we should travel together again. Too many things can go wrong that are beyond both our control. On top of that, I have flight anxiety so I'm definitely weaker in my ability to validate. It's all I can do to keep my own self calm, which I managed. But I wasn't strong enough to bring him along the way I can when I'm less stressed. So he raged while I sat there absorbing it.

An update... .today he texted about football, asked about my cold, and even joked around. 

Is this how his mind really works? ----> I'm upset, you're the devil, I hate you... .I forgot I was upset, you're an angel, I love you... .If you're upset I have no idea why... .I'll remember a year from now and punish you all over again for it... .Hey, are you watching the game?

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« Reply #14 on: January 03, 2016, 06:08:50 PM »

Yes, this is how projection works for them. They feel bad and have to get rid of the bad feelings so they project them outside of themselves onto someone else. (You) . Once the bad feelings are gone, they feel better. They either assume you do too, or may have a sense that you don't but to consider this would trigger their shame. I think there may be some magical thinking like one of those dry erase boards that they can (or hope ) it will just disappear. If you bring it up they can blame you for holding a grudge.

I liken this to a kid with a tummy ache. The kid throws up and feels all better now. But you're covered in puke.

The way I deal with this is to not listen or participate by responding or JADIng. Hard to do when you are stuck in an airport. I too have cut back travel but when we do, I tend to be as unreactive as possible if either of us are stressed. I let some things go as I know it is temporary during the trip.
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« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2016, 06:48:25 PM »

Thank you Notwendy. That is so helpful. Makes so much sense, especially the analogies.

I tried my best to be non-reactive. Usually for me, that means letting it roll off (most times I'm laughing at him in my head!). Too bad I couldn't manage that this time. Not with a head cold and anxiety. The best I could do was not react, but I definitely absorbed it. Nothing rolled off. And knowing him, he had to have felt that. I've noticed his dysregulations go away a lot faster when I'm truly not bothered by him.

I had asked him weeks in advance of the trip to please be patient with me on the plane, airports, connecting flights, thru security, etc. He knows I have terrible anxiety about flying. Dumb thing to ask of a pwBPD, but sometimes I forget about his condition. He was very considerate, patient and helpful the first day. We had flight delays then too, but it was the start of the vacation and he was in a really good mood. He stayed pretty even the rest of the trip. I should've known that bubble would burst eventually. I was just hoping against all odds we could get thru one trip without drama. I think if our flights had been on time we might've made it. But who knows... .could've been something else.

I guess what I need to do now is figure out how to let it go... .that's a little hard to do right now. The things he said to me were pretty bad.

But you are right, I have definitely been accused of holding grudges. Mostly because I need some kind of resolution - either an apology (hah! not likely), or at the very least, acknowledgment of what actually (factually) happened, not some distorted version of his truth (even less likely). I like the dry erase board analogy. I can see how that would help him cope. Unfortunately, I'm not made that way. I can still see the words he thinks he erased. Oh! That gives me an idea... .Maybe I should delete those awful texts he wrote? Doesn't erase the spoken words, but I can remove the written ones, and try to move on from them. He might not even mean those things now.
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« Reply #16 on: January 03, 2016, 07:10:10 PM »

I'm like you- I want some kind of explanation, some resolution " why did you say these things to me?". Long before I understood what was going on in my marriage, I pursued this with my H. He would either get angry, accuse me of holding on to a grudge, or give me some kind of reason that was different if I asked again, or the silent treatment, but once I understood this idea, I realized he just said what he said in the moment. I think he did mean it in the moment, but when that moment was over, well it was over.

I too can replay almost everything he said to me but over time, I realized well, it is what it is. Not that I tolerate being spoken to like that. I will usually remove myself. If I do want to ask about it, it has to be much later. In the moment, when someone is dysregulating, there can not be any rational discussion. I think my H remembers what he said, but I also think he hopes that if he just forgets it, I will too.

My mother, w BPD though, really forgets. In a way these episodes are so dysregulating that they are not logged into her memory. She does have some sense that she mistreated me as a child, but I don't think she recalls much of it. I think she may do this with past trauma as well.  She has raged at me, told me she would not send the kids any presents. Then, a few weeks later will call and say in a sweet voice " what does grandkid want for  his birthday, give me ideas what to send him? " as if nothing has happened and she is just sweet little granny... .

This hurt, when I took it personally, but it isn't personal. Still, it feels yukky to be covered in emotional puke. You can delete the messages but if you are feeling hurt, better to not deny your feelings. It takes us longer but so what? We are who we are.
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« Reply #17 on: January 03, 2016, 07:50:47 PM »

True. What helps me let things go is understanding what's going on or what happened. Since he can't explain, coming here helps me piece it together... .so I really appreciate everyone's insight. Bringing it up to him later never works in my experience - almost always causes a dysregulation, even if I catch him in a calm rational mood. So things never get resolved with him, just rehashed and overblown again or swept under the rug.

I still have no idea what he'll say the next time we actually speak. I've only gotten texts since we got back. At least now I'm no longer dreading his calls. Baby steps. I'll clean under the rug eventually... .so it doesn't get too lumpy. 
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« Reply #18 on: January 04, 2016, 12:26:58 AM »

Wow Jessica and Notwendy, you both have such patience.  I hope your SO's are aware just how fortunate they are to have you. Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #19 on: January 04, 2016, 08:05:20 AM »

Thank you Moselle,

I think both my H and I appreciate the good qualities each of us brought into the relationship. I certainly had my share of  PD traits  that I learned from my FOO. I realize that my H and I have different ways of dealing with that.

I don't think any of us should excuse hurtful behavior or dismiss our feelings. However one thing that has been helpful to me is to not make a personal meaning out of them. I had to learn not to do this because it was my tendency to assume that if someone else is upset, it was my fault. Perhaps sometime it is- but in that case, it is up to the other person to deal with these feelings in a mature, responsible manner. I realize that someone with BPD may not have this skill, but that, too, is not my fault.

Nobody is at their best when they are tired and stressed, and so I also learned that when I feel that way, I need to take some time to myself. I have noticed that when I am out of sorts, it is triggering to my H. I think this can go both ways. One aspect of learning about boundaries is to recognize this. Those of us who grew up in dysfunctional FOO's can be very sensitive to other people's feelings- and  our SO's can be as well, even if they deal with this differently.

One step at a time Smiling (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #20 on: January 04, 2016, 08:26:09 AM »

How do you guys validate your SO?

I am trying to emulate your patience with my D 14. I'm not sure if all teenagers are Borderline by definition  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #21 on: January 04, 2016, 09:03:02 AM »

Laugh out loud (click to insert in post) I think there is some truth to that about hormonal teens.



That is a good question. We don't want to validate the invalid or enable behavior. I also don't want to validate dysregulations. For me, personally, I disengage. I have stopped talking in conversations.

For my SO, this has been effective. However, I would say he has traits, not BPD. One way we got into these things is that, if he was irritable, he would say something that pushes my buttons, I would react, then this would be an invitation to him projecting and raging at me. Then, I would feel this yukky hurt from that. Now, when I see the "bait" I disengage. It takes two to do this and so, I don't. This way, he is left with his own feelings and can deal with them in his own way and I see this as his responsibility.

I don't know if it is a blessing or curse to have learned to deal with a severely affected BPD mother. Sometimes my H will say that I am treating him like I treat my mother. There could be some truth to this, except that they are more not alike than they are alike. It is the few traits that seem similar that trigger my dysfunction and so, there were the behaviors - in myself- that I wanted to work on.

Mom is the one who I think acts like a teenager and sometimes a toddler. However, my relationship is different from an SO in many ways perhaps more similar to having a teen daughter. For one, she is family and I did not choose to go NC with her. Also, while I do care about her, that is different than a relationship between romantic partners. Although she is my mother, it feels as if we reversed roles decades ago.

I can validate her by listening to her when she is not dysregulating. It used to be hard to listen to her, because her point of view was so different from mine ( and possibly what really was going on). I learned not to give advice when she presented me with a dilemma, but to assure her that I had confidence she could handle it ( if it was something she could handle). I could validate her feelings.

I don't do this with dysregulations. However, if there is an important issue, I can try to bring it up later. Once, in a rage, she said she wouldn't send the kids gifts and she refused to speak to us. Then later, she called asking what they wanted. I used this time to remind her of what she said without reprimanding her. She said " well I was mad" . I said I understand that you were angry and hurt, and I would have felt that way too. that was true. However, we didn't intend for you to feel that way and I am sorry ( an apology) and then "it is confusing for the kids to be cut off and then asked what they want. They are not in contact with you for gifts, but for you, so whether you send gifts or not is less important than that this confuses them".  Note that I targeted the behavior and said "it is confusing" not "you are confusing". I also made a point that the relationship with her is more important to the kids than the presents- which validated her.This did not result in a dysregulation.

Avoiding the word " you" in anything that may be critical and using it when being complimentary, listening without advising ,and when is the best time to talk has helped.

With a teen it is similar. You give them as much rope as is safe for them. They responsibilities include their schoolwork, friends, chores. Step in when you think they can not handle things but if not, let them handle as much as they can. Let them vent and know that they can change their minds every 10 seconds. One thing I do with my kids is validate their feelings as well as their boundaries. If they feel uncomfortable around someone, then I validate their feeling. Also do not rescue " My teacher sucks - this homework is unfair!" Yes, I understand how you feel, but I trust you can handle this homework". " But I love him... ." ... .yeah, I was a teen age girl too, and that passes... .and be sure you have discussed relationships, sex, contraception and made this accessible, even if it is not something you endorse. I think teens need to be informed and not left out on a limb with their health and safety, even if they choose not to be sexually active- they have the information.
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« Reply #22 on: January 04, 2016, 11:05:00 AM »

Moselle - hopefully NotWendy's advice helped. I know nothing about teenagers, except for when I was one! I never had children and in I'm in my 40s now. All I remember was I was about half-insane those years! You can have patience by understanding that being a teen is hard and confusing. Know in your heart most of us grow out of this horrible stage.  Smiling (click to insert in post)

As for patience with BPD, I have to agree with NotWendy on disengaging, especially from circular arguments that go nowhere. Validation is key. It takes practice and the ability to not take it personal. Both hard to do, at least for me. I'm going to steal NotWendy's lines she told her mother and program them to memory!

If validating doesn't work, disengage. It's best to get up and take a break from the conversation. Let them work it out themselves. This does take patience. If you're anything like me, you want to help them on the spot or end the conflict quickly. It won't happen as quickly as you like, but remind yourself it will happen eventually.

Before I knew about BPD I would talk, talk, talk to smooth over a conflict. This is how my family worked so it's all I knew. Airing it all out brought understanding and resolution, where letting things fester made it worse. Complete opposite with my pwBPD. I had to learn to do the opposite since engaging with him made it worse and what I viewed as "letting things fester" actually made it better.
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« Reply #23 on: January 04, 2016, 11:16:01 AM »

I patiently waited out his silent treatment. He called me this morning. He's now painted the airline black and is no longer blaming me. He admitted we had a great trip and they ruined it the last day. Alas, some validation! He now sees a white trip with one black spot and put the blame where it belongs. Progress!

But the hurt feelings are still there. He did say that he was cranky that day. That's a good step. I validated his frustrations and said I was on edge myself... .but then he went into how he felt I was criticizing him all day (oh the irony). I wasn't ready to validate his feelings on this - felt myself getting defensive. I told him I had to go, wished him a nice day and hung up (needed to disengage before it started all over again). He called right back and said his call wasn't meant to upset me or stir up bad feelings again, but to get us "back on track". I listened, and we ended the call on a good note. But I need more time. I appreciate his efforts - he's trying, but I'm still feeling "off track".
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« Reply #24 on: January 04, 2016, 01:18:56 PM »

My husband and I got into an argument yesterday when I had finally had enough of his rudeness and snarkiness and I confronted him about it. I exited before the dysregulation began and later when we talked, I asked him about some of the rude comments he made that stared with "You always... ."

He said, "You should never take at face value anything that's said in an argument." 

That amazed me. What I say is true for me. It doesn't change when I'm upset.

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« Reply #25 on: January 04, 2016, 03:42:20 PM »

He said, "You should never take at face value anything that's said in an argument

Translation: when I start arguing go away instead of getting hurt by what I'm about to say  Being cool (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #26 on: January 04, 2016, 03:49:39 PM »

He said, "You should never take at face value anything that's said in an argument

Translation: when I start arguing go away instead of getting hurt by what I'm about to say  Being cool (click to insert in post)

Grey Kitty - can you make us a BPD-English dictionary? That is brilliant! I wish I was as fluent.
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« Reply #27 on: January 04, 2016, 04:47:54 PM »

He said, "You should never take at face value anything that's said in an argument

Translation: when I start arguing go away instead of getting hurt by what I'm about to say  Being cool (click to insert in post)

Grey Kitty - can you make us a BPD-English dictionary? That is brilliant! I wish I was as fluent.

LOL! Glad you enjoyed it, but sorry, I don't have the full dictionary

My "translation" in this case was a verbally fun way to combine two things... .

1. When somebody tells you who the are/what they do, believe them.

(A very good rule for relationships. Usually people who turn out abusive/difficult/unable to commit/etc/etc/etc. will actually tell you fairly directly who they are and what they will do. Most often, we don't believe them. Until much later when it is proven true.)

2. Good boundary enforcement around verbal/emotional abuse.

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« Reply #28 on: January 04, 2016, 06:42:18 PM »

LOL! Glad you enjoyed it, but sorry, I don't have the full dictionary

My "translation" in this case was a verbally fun way to combine two things... .

1. When somebody tells you who the are/what they do, believe them.

(A very good rule for relationships. Usually people who turn out abusive/difficult/unable to commit/etc/etc/etc. will actually tell you fairly directly who they are and what they will do. Most often, we don't believe them. Until much later when it is proven true.)

2. Good boundary enforcement around verbal/emotional abuse.

Thanks, Grey Kitty. I loved that!

I'm going to have to skedaddle sooner with these arguments, which thankfully are rare these days. I've gotten so good at being tactful and using what I've learned here that it seldom gets off course. But that also means I've got to stuff some of my reactions. So it was actually good for me to call him on his sh!tty attitude and raise my voice. I hadn't done that in a long time.

And he was perplexed when I exited in the midst, which I will do sooner next time. It was fun to ride off on the ATV with its wagon filled up with yard debris on the way to the compost pile.

Oh, and he apologized today for being an azz.
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« Reply #29 on: January 05, 2016, 01:19:44 PM »

 Doing the right thing (click to insert in post) Good for you, Cat!

I kind of got the same validation yesterday, only indirectly... .and with a big raincloud behind it. He spoke to a mutual friend who casually asked about his vacation. It was the first day back to work. She told me he said we had a great time, that I got sick but we had a lot of fun. The weird part is he said to her that he is an a-hole (his word), was rude to me, can't handle relationships and needed to accept that about himself so he could move on.



He's still distant and didn't call on his way home from work last night like he usually does, so I knew something was up. He texted me around midnight saying he felt 'out of sync', kept apologizing and didn't know what else to say, and wasn't sure if we should break up. Great. Now I have no idea where we stand. I could tell he was fully dysregulated.

I almost feel like going NC now, maybe block his calls for a week or so - if I let him have his big breakup speech it will hurt us both unnecessarily. This is his pattern. He'll feel temporarily relieved of his shame/guilt/suffering by ending it, then he will feel worse after it sets in. Takes a few days before he starts to fall apart (his work suffers, blows up at others, depression/suicidal ideation sets in, cries to me for validation). Then it takes us weeks or months to get back to 'normal' again.

Thinking if I don't allow the "speech" this time, I can stop this on/off cycle. Maybe not. I don't know what to say to him anymore or how to validate him. This whole thing has been blown way out of proportion. We had one bad day, and now the entire RS is in jeopardy? This is so frustrating!
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« Reply #30 on: January 05, 2016, 03:02:41 PM »

Hi Jessica I am presently going through the Same! Thought we had sorted things out yesterday. We spoke all was ok, we decided to put it behind us. Later that night I sent a good night text and WHAM I've been thrown right back into ST!

I am the same as you in thinking that the more it's getting dragged out the harder it is for us to recover from. Your trust diminishes as well as there's.

So I'm now back a square one, unsure if I am being punished or because he's shamed I called him out on his bs lie for the reason for the last ST.

I was undecided what to do as I know he has completely dysregulated. Sometimes I can pull him out of it if I intervene early enough but I know now that he is thinking 'she is definitely not the one for me' and there is absolutely nothing I can do at this point. My biggest fear at this point is if he looks for someone else as that's a deal breaker for me.

Please let me know how you are doing and what your action plan is at this time x
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« Reply #31 on: January 05, 2016, 03:15:26 PM »

Jessica, you might try telling him you need some space and you will be back in touch in a few days.

Perhaps he won't need to break up with you then. The healthy reason to do it is because you don't want to deal with him while he's in this state, and you know it.

Better yet... .(whether you do that or not)... .think about how you want to handle a "break up" from him again. Consider your options. Perhaps post here for thoughts. Lord knows, you aren't  the only one on these boards who has a partner that pulls this kind of stuff!
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« Reply #32 on: January 05, 2016, 03:17:29 PM »

I kind of got the same validation yesterday, only indirectly... .and with a big raincloud behind it. He spoke to a mutual friend who casually asked about his vacation. It was the first day back to work. She told me he said we had a great time, that I got sick but we had a lot of fun. The weird part is he said to her that he is an a-hole (his word), was rude to me, can't handle relationships and needed to accept that about himself so he could move on.



He's still distant and didn't call on his way home from work last night like he usually does, so I knew something was up. He texted me around midnight saying he felt 'out of sync', kept apologizing and didn't know what else to say, and wasn't sure if we should break up. Great. Now I have no idea where we stand. I could tell he was fully dysregulated.

Here's how I see this, Jessica. He's telling the truth to your mutual friend. He had a good time and he was an azz to you. He's feeling terrible about himself now that he's realized he's behaved badly and that's why he's not comfortable dealing with you and brings up the breakup idea. He's giving you an out.

I think the best thing is to let him work through these feelings. You might briefly text him saying that you had a good time on the vacation and that you look forward to reconnecting with him--or you might omit the last part. That way you let him know that you're there for him without intruding on his cycle of self abuse and he can self-soothe in his own time frame.
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« Reply #33 on: January 05, 2016, 03:32:52 PM »

Thanks everyone. I'm trying to pour myself into work to keep my mind going in a positive direction. When I think about him, I want to slump into my chair and stare into space. Like a mental patient!  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

Lou - sorry you are going thru this too. I don't have a good plan of action yet. It's so annoying and so unnecessary!

Grey Kitty and Cat Familiar (my 2 favorite kitty cats!) - good advice. I already told him I had a great time on the vacation. I already validated his frustrations. Last night, I told him to hang in there, I'm there for him. What I haven't done yet is ask for space and let him know I'll be in touch in a few days, as GK suggested. Scared of how he might take that. When he did this last time, he took it to the extreme - promised to leave me alone for 6 months! He made it 8 days. 
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« Reply #34 on: January 05, 2016, 04:31:49 PM »

I think I have a strategy:

If his calls go back to his old routine, I'll answer in hopes we can move past this. So if he calls tonight when he's leaving work, or driving to work in the morning I'll know he's back to his "normal". I'm not too confident in this happening, but who knows with him. Maybe this will blow over. If he derails from his calling routine and only sends strange cryptic texts, I'll know he's still in a bad state and won't respond to let him self-soothe. If his texts get ugly by my not responding, I'll block him so I don't have to read them.

It's the best plan I can think of for now, based on all past experiences with him. He has definite patterns that reveal a lot about his state of mind. I'm far more aware of them now.

Responding to him when he's "off" is pointless... .and reading his ugly words will only make me feel worse. I have to break this cycle somehow. I ALWAYS respond to him no matter his state, trying to be supportive, validating, assure him I'm there for him, blah blah... .Something has to change.
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« Reply #35 on: January 05, 2016, 07:20:26 PM »

I think I have a strategy:

If his calls go back to his old routine, I'll answer in hopes we can move past this. So if he calls tonight when he's leaving work, or driving to work in the morning I'll know he's back to his "normal". I'm not too confident in this happening, but who knows with him. Maybe this will blow over. If he derails from his calling routine and only sends strange cryptic texts, I'll know he's still in a bad state and won't respond to let him self-soothe. If his texts get ugly by my not responding, I'll block him so I don't have to read them.

It's the best plan I can think of for now, based on all past experiences with him. He has definite patterns that reveal a lot about his state of mind. I'm far more aware of them now.

Responding to him when he's "off" is pointless... .and reading his ugly words will only make me feel worse. I have to break this cycle somehow. I ALWAYS respond to him no matter his state, trying to be supportive, validating, assure him I'm there for him, blah blah... .Something has to change.

What didn't work for me with my SO wBPD was not to respond to her texts.  I'd hear about it later how rude I was not to respond to her texts.  If the texts were rude or inappropriate from her, I wouldn't text back things totally unrelated and ignore the rude texts.  For instance if she was on the way home from work and texted me some rude insult, I'd just respond with "I hope your work day was fine and not too stressful."  or "Looking forward to hearing your voice tonight" or any other thing not related to the received text.  Most times we would talk later and the whole rude text/s she sent were not even brought up and all was fine like they were never sent.  Try experimenting and see what works for you.
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« Reply #36 on: January 05, 2016, 08:41:13 PM »

Thank you Steve. I've tried that too - kind of like distracting a toddler with a shiny object. It has worked before, but not always. It's all trial and error, isn't it? I try to stick with what works consistently - validation and boundaries. But in this type of situation, I've noticed that what works one time doesn't work the next. So I try something different. Ignoring him may or may not work, but I haven't done it before. Don't know if I will or not. Depends on what he says. If I can keep it light, I will. If he's rude or in one of his dark, deep moods I may ignore.

Anyway, thank you for all the suggestions! We'll see how it goes... .

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« Reply #37 on: January 05, 2016, 09:47:59 PM »

I've been ignoring my husband's sighing and expletives muttered under his breath. I used to respond with, "What's wrong, Honey." Now I just ignore it and interestingly enough, that pattern is going away. No reinforcement, no reward.

Previously it drove me crazy when out of the blue, he'd loudly exclaim, "F@ck!" It really was anxiety-inducing for me to be jarred out of a peaceful state and extremely irritating when I'd ask what that was all about and he'd reply, "Oh, nothing."

I think a lot of their wacky behaviors are a cry for attention and I'm just trying to respond to the positive requests, not the crazy negative ones.
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« Reply #38 on: January 06, 2016, 10:35:15 AM »

I've been ignoring my husband's sighing and expletives muttered under his breath. I used to respond with, "What's wrong, Honey." Now I just ignore it and interestingly enough, that pattern is going away. No reinforcement, no reward.

The sighing frustrates me. I too usually respond with, "What's wrong, honey." I have a deep desire to make sure that all is well, that she is ok, so I offer my help. Doesn't usually go well.

I've started to ignore her sighs too, which for the most part, is working out. Recently, I actually giggled because since I didn't respond to the first sigh, she sighed louder. Reminded me of a child looking for attention. She picked up on this and angrily asked, "What are you laughing at?" I don't like to lie, but I had to come up with a lame excuse about remembering something someone said at work. She wanted to know every detail. I came up with this lame story, that I didn't even think was funny. She looked at me and did the eye roll

Note to self: No giggling when she sighs.
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« Reply #39 on: January 06, 2016, 11:25:39 AM »

 Laugh out loud (click to insert in post) Yeah, never a good idea to laugh, no matter how ridiculous they act! The first time mine fully dysregulated I could swear he was joking. We hadn't been dating long and he used to play these movie characters to make me laugh. One day he went into the loudest, meanest rage I've ever seen in real life, and it came out of nowhere. I truly thought at the time he was playing some over-the-top abusive character so I burst out laughing. Only that time, it wasn't an act. I swear it was like watching Bruce Bainer turn into the Hulk right before my eyes. 

I usually ignore the sighs and the cursing when he's having a "moment"... .this usually gets him over his latest "crisis" faster. Asking what's wrong would go one of two ways - either he'd project hatred onto me, or I'd hear some loong repetitive rant about whatever was bothering him.

This time I'm going to ignore and deny him the opportunity to give the big breakup speech. He's taking way too long to get over this so I know it's coming. Haven't heard from yet so I'm going to go on about my life and wait for his to unravel now... .   Makes me grateful I don't have this nutty disorder.
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« Reply #40 on: January 06, 2016, 11:45:30 AM »

Hang in there Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #41 on: January 06, 2016, 01:45:55 PM »

Well, he texted. "How are you Mother Teresa?"   Guess I'm painted white again.

The rest was nothing too serious - texts about work and how he's sick in bed.

What next? I don't know. He mentioned he "cannot think straight" because of the cold and the medicines. I wonder if this is his out? If he can blame coming down with a cold for his bad behavior at the airport, then blame the cold itself for barely speaking to me since, then it's possible he's calmed down and doesn't want to break up, but needs an excuse for the way he's been acting... too logical?
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« Reply #42 on: January 06, 2016, 01:55:49 PM »

Well, he texted. "How are you Mother Teresa?"   Guess I'm painted white again.

The rest was nothing too serious - texts about work and how he's sick in bed.

What next? I don't know. He mentioned he "cannot think straight" because of the cold and the medicines. I wonder if this is his out? If he can blame coming down with a cold for his bad behavior at the airport, then blame the cold itself for barely speaking to me since, then it's possible he's calmed down and doesn't want to break up, but needs an excuse for the way he's been acting... too logical?

Makes sense to me.  No need to discuss the airport or his barely speaking since if you want peace.  I find letting things go is what will bring peace, bringing up things again will lead to escalation again.  So if you can, chalk it up to his emotional dysfunction and move forward. 
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« Reply #43 on: January 06, 2016, 01:59:49 PM »

I think you've hit on a good theory, Jessica. My husband loves to blame some external cause for his bad behavior: long line at the grocery store, traffic, somebody being rude to him, his back hurts, bills, customer support, the list is endless... .
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« Reply #44 on: January 06, 2016, 02:07:48 PM »

Makes sense to me.  No need to discuss the airport or his barely speaking since if you want peace.  I find letting things go is what will bring peace, bringing up things again will lead to escalation again.  So if you can, chalk it up to his emotional dysfunction and move forward

Doing the right thing (click to insert in post) Yes, thank you. Exactly what I had in mind. I'm so over all this nonsense. I've vented here so I wouldn't with him. I'm ready to move forward. I hope this is him taking steps toward that. I guess I'll have to wait and see... .

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« Reply #45 on: January 06, 2016, 03:34:46 PM »

Makes sense to me.  No need to discuss the airport or his barely speaking since if you want peace.  I find letting things go is what will bring peace, bringing up things again will lead to escalation again.  So if you can, chalk it up to his emotional dysfunction and move forward

Doing the right thing (click to insert in post) Yes, thank you. Exactly what I had in mind. I'm so over all this nonsense. I've vented here so I wouldn't with him. I'm ready to move forward. I hope this is him taking steps toward that. I guess I'll have to wait and see... .

Using this forum to vent can be really helpful.  Our SO wBPD aren't capable of validating our feelings, they falsely accuse us of things we didn't do, and we have to deal with verbal or emotional abuse on a continual basis.  And if we defend ourselves, fight back, or set the record straight, it just leads to escalation.  We are such wonderful, caring and special people to give ourselves so much into a relationship with a pwBPD.  Just know you are awesome Jessica and I hope you get some peace and love you deserve!
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Jessica84
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« Reply #46 on: January 06, 2016, 03:54:21 PM »

Thank you Steve and same to you! I am so grateful for this community. Helps to know others understand and are willing to share their stories and advice. Most of my friends say "I wouldn't put up with that". Not very helpful. I get why they say it though. We put up with a lot, that's for sure!
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« Reply #47 on: January 06, 2016, 03:56:56 PM »

He doesn't have the emotional strength to deal with problems he creates or acknowledge his role.

So he blames something outside himself.

Better a cold than you.   

Either way, you can just let him use that (sucky) coping mechanism quietly, and not really engage with it.
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formflier
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« Reply #48 on: January 07, 2016, 10:13:45 AM »

  The problem with this situation is I was stuck at an airport with him. Like a hostage. I stayed calm and tried to use my boundaries the best I could to "leave" the situation several times.   

 I would challenge you to think about this situation for "next time".  You can call your own cab or summon your own uber and take care of yourself.  If he is snarling at you in a public place, leave him.  However, reading through your thread it seems you bounced back pretty good.  So I'm not suggesting you did anything wrong.  Perhaps he may one day realize that there are very few times that you will accept bad behavior toward you, and that will help him point his anger (or whatever emotion) in the right direction.  Really glad the vacation went well!  

FF
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« Reply #49 on: January 07, 2016, 08:48:59 PM »

Next time, FF? I shudder to think... . 

I totally agree. I had an escape plan ready if anything went wrong during the trip - get my own room, take different flight home. But this was the last day and everything was fine to that point. By the time his meltdown started, I couldn't leave - too far from home and stuck in bad weather. I couldn't wander too far from the gate because the plane could've come at any time, and they would board us quickly. No way of knowing when it would come. Staff wouldn't tell us anything. So... .gift shops and bathroom were my only real options.

Now he's "sick". Tonight he's "depressed". These are convenient conditions.   Sad and weird that being miserable would make him feel better... .but that's none of my business.
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