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Author Topic: Skewed Priorities and how to deal with them...  (Read 629 times)
Ceruleanblue
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« on: January 04, 2016, 02:20:25 PM »

I'm sure a lot of us deal with partners that have skewed priorities. How do you deal with it? The latest round here is that BPDh bought a car by getting a loan we can ill afford. I thought we'd spend a few days car shopping,  and looking at cars. Comparing them. Well, he finds one out of state, on the internet, no less. Has them hold it for him, and pretty much buys it sight unseen. My opinion mattered for naught, and he knew I didn't like the color of it. I was agreeable on all else: make, model. I'm not okay that he doesn't include me in any decisions, and obviously has little respect for me. I can't change that, but I am upset about it.

What is the best way to deal with their priorities that are obviously skewed? I know MY feelings or opinions should have mattered in this decision, same as it should have in past decisions he's made(and later regretted). He'll admit my feelings "should" matter, but when push comes to shove, he's like a three year old who does what he wants, when he wants, and he'll do anything to get his way. I think he even knows he's selfish. We're always strapped, but he bragged about spoiling his new car by getting a $14.00 car wash. He knows he's not meeting my love language in regards to small gifts(some of which could be no cost), but he makes his car, his kids, and himself top priority!

I matter to ME, and I'm sick of feeling badly about his ability, or maybe just his refusal to get his priorities in better order. I see him doing this in regards to his job crisis too. There are things he should be doing to save his job, yet he's focusing on things that are not as important. I see it, but I'm not going to point it out. I did ask him if he's worked on "such and such", because I know these are the things his boss' stressed, but he's off on another mad tangent, doing something else. His boss' gave him a list BPDh let me read, so I don't know why he's not working on the list?

I can't change him, I can only change ME, so how do I manage to feel better about his priorities, or the fact that I'm not much of one to him? I don't see this as a reflection on ME, but it does still hurt. My Christmas gift got returned, and I'm shocked I even got one. He wouldn't think of returning anyone else's gift, and not replacing it, but he just expects me to roll with everything.

I don't want to feel bad about HIS lack of priorities, or poor choices anymore, but I'm STILL struggling with how not to... .
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sweetheart
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« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2016, 02:36:04 PM »

Hi CB,

Here are a couple of links that might help,

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/pieces-mind/201312/three-blocks-radical-acceptance

www.ravitalhome.com/home/radical-acceptance-i-letting-go-in-relationships
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Ceruleanblue
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« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2016, 02:36:41 PM »

What is your experience with your BPD partner, in regards to decision making, or priorities? Is this just a basic issue that most with BPD struggle with? If so, I might feel better. I've never been able to reconcile that this issue is just due to the BPD.

I don't see this as something that is going to change after all these years, so as usual, I'm going to have to accept it, which I'm obviously struggling with. My last marriage of 18 years, we made decisions together, and I did feel I was a priority, so this just feels bad.

He has the attitude of "do what you want, and apologize later", which isn't cutting it with me. He wants me accountable to him, yet he's a loose cannon, and doesn't like to be questioned or see the benefit of having others weigh in.

Maybe all of us deal with this, but I haven't specifically read about it much on here... .
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Ceruleanblue
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« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2016, 02:49:22 PM »

Thanks for the links Sweetheart. I'll reread them. I do think I'm pretty accepting of BPDh on the whole, as in I know he'll always have anger issues, he'll split, he'll dysregulate, and he'll project, and a bunch of other BPD/NPD type traits. I don't like it, but I have accepted it.

I guess it's that I read others' stories on here, and there is such a spectrum, and it seems some people's partners are able to be better partners in at least some areas. I guess if I could just write this off as a BPD trait, it would be easier to accept. To me, it just seems so DISCOUNTING of me, of my feelings, and my opinions have just never mattered to him. It's a respect thing, really.

Plus, his Dad just told me on the trip back from getting BPDh's new car, that BPDh did indeed treat his ex better, and that SHE ruled the roost, and BPDh couldn't do enough, or listen hard enough to her. THIS is my struggle. I'm healthier, I've put up with way more(BPDh has told me this), yet BPDh treats me as if I don't matter. I DO MATTER! I don't want out of my marriage, and I have a "staying" attitude, but I'm no masochist either, and I'm not enjoying constantly being shown I don't matter, yet his ex did. If I never had to hear about how he treated his ex, or just didn't know, this would be much easier to radically accept.

I'm also not willing to be a selfish, knife wielding crazy woman in order to get my needs met(like his ex). I won't, nor could ever be that, but it seems to be the only thing that BPDh responds to.

Why is it so much easier to radically accept his scary anger, his blame, and his projecting, than the visible, outward manifestations of MY feelings and opinions not mattering? I think it's because his feelings matter so much to me, which is why I validate his feelings, and had a pattern of taking a bullet, just so he wouldn't feel bad. I don't go that far anymore, but I still long for knowing that I matter to him in some slight way. As it is, I don't feel that way. I don't know if he's even capable of loving a woman(in a wife/husband way)... .
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sweetheart
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« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2016, 02:54:54 PM »

What I'm wondering is what makes his priorities skewed?

Remember the car has been something you've wanted him to sort out for a while now, as if I remember right, you have your own and h has been using a bike ? It's a positive, he has sorted it.

If the car is a second one for his own use why can't he make the decisions himself. I hear what you're saying, but I don't agree that because his thinking is different from yours it is somehow wrong.

I also understand that there are ongoing financial issues, but is your h spending his money?

It's sounds like there are ongoing communication difficulties here for you both and/or difficulties around acceptance of who is and how he behaves.( I realise you are aware of this stuff) What he says and how he acts are not new. The circumstances might be, but the patterns are the same. For you both.

The links to RA look at ways of exploring your responses within a relationship. It is not enough to say I am working on me and then express annoyance or resentment at a situation, and think how can I change him.

What you can do is be with your anger, resentment, disappointment, experience those emotions, but not allow them to leak back into your relationship. It really is about trying to disengage from the negativity. To really try not to take any of it as a personal slight. It really isn't about you. So take you out of the equation when you feel those feelings of resentment, bitterness, annoyance, irritation, or think Why me? 

Take those feelings to your T and explore them there. Leave them there. Keep doing that until you feel yourself no longer react to your h's disordered behaviours and thinking. It is possible.

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« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2016, 03:07:00 PM »

Also, after reading the links, I really don't think I'm mad, just hurt, and in regards to this, I don't think I'm resentful either. I have accepted that he is like this, maybe not radically, but I see he IS like this. I just feel like I should matter, and I feel that is my due as a wife. He made me a priority when we dated, or I would not have married him. I'm trying to adjust to all the BPD traits, but not having a voice(he actually verbatim said I "do not have a voice in this relationship", is hard to take. I don't think I even WANT to radically accept that! That's like validating the invalid.

Also, when we were shopping for MY car, I found a car I wanted, and he didn't like it, said we should keep looking, so we did. I listened to him, and took his advice. We found another car, but I really wanted that first car I'd liked. I take his advice into account, and would not have gone against his advice, and it would have felt disrespectful to me to do so. To me, no car, is worth making my husband feel his advice doesn't matter. So, we found my current car, and I've been happy with it, and knowing we chose it together.

I do explore all this with my therapist, and she always asks why I stay. I know why I stay, because it's not all bad, and I'm committed to our marriage. It doesn't lessen the fact though that this is a very one sided marriage. He gets his way, he discounts my feelings, and I give his great weight.

His priorities are skewed because in regards to our marriage, AND his job, he discounts my feelings and he discounts what his boss told him to work on. How is that not having skewed priorities? He isn't walking through life alone, he has to take others' views or feelings into consideration. I might stay even though he doesn't, but his job is not under that same obligation... .?
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« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2016, 03:13:39 PM »

[quoTake those feelings to your T and explore them there. Leave them there. Keep doing that until you feel yourself no longer react to your h's disordered behaviours and thinking. It is possible.te][/quote]
This is what I struggle with most. My therapist has told me that when BPDh does something, knowing it will hurt me, because I've told him so, that he is clearly making a choice, and that blocking my feelings in regards to it isn't good. I guess feeling it is good, but resentment is bad. I'm not much of a grudge holder anyway, and staying angry is not something I'm good at. I let myself by hurt or mad, but then I get over it pretty quick. The problem is that he keeps repeating this stuff. It's the same thing over and over, just a new situation.

I feel like as often as this stuff happens, I'd have to be in therapy two or three times a week, if I'm to just "leave it there"... .Laugh out loud (click to insert in post).
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« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2016, 03:52:35 PM »

Boundaries have a cost, and that cost can be high. Boundaries are not easy or pleasant to enforce. They can involve making a choice  that choice can be to enforce a boundary and take the risk that the other person will leave the relationship.  This doesn't mean we threaten or make ultimatums but it means that we accept that the person we are with has complete free will to make his or her own choices. .

Radical acceptance includes accepting that your H will make his own choices- about his behavior, what to spend money on, what to do with your gift,  and that includes his choice to stay or leave the marriage. RA also includes that your H may just be an inconsiderate person who does not consider you. In this case, you have to choose what behaviors are acceptable or not to you, since he isn't considering that. Your choice is to enforce your boundaries and decide what behaviors you will or will not tolerate.

It is a pretty tough choice between a boundary and the risk of losing a relationship, but as long as you are willing to tolerate anything, that is probably what you are going to get. Know that taking that risk does not mean the other person will do it. It just puts the choice into their hands.

I think Sweetheart's point is, that if you choose to stay no matter what your H does, and you radically accept your H for who he is, then your choice is to feel the way you feel. But RA also involves accepting that you took this choice, and making some resolution out of this if you are to have any peace for yourself in it.
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« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2016, 04:37:07 PM »

Yes, I get that. I guess it's hard finding the balance between not caring at all what your BPD partner does, in other words being dead to the hurtful things they do, and learning to let it hurt, but not harbor resentment, and not being blindsided by it, or overly hurt by it?

I feel I have a right to feel hurt, but I don't want it to become a deep hurt, or lead to resentment, which I feel is a love and relationship killer. On the other hand though, I don't want the BPD/NPD, to become an excuse as to why I keep taking things I don't feel are "okay". I have compassion for him, but I don't feel it's an excuse to allow anything and everything.

His choices and behaviors are HIS, but they do effect me. He picked a car with window tint so dark that I can barely see out of. It's his car, but there are instances where we drive each others' cars. Both of us. We've been driving solely mine since he didn't have one, and he'd been getting rides to work. HIS choice to have dark window tint, thereby breaking Michigan law I might add, but it's also MY choice to either drive his car or not. I have horrid night vision, always have, and BPDh knows this. I make allowances for HIS shortcomings(hello BPD!), but my physical limitations don't come into play.

I guess I accept this, but I don't like it. I haven't totally made peace with his choices that he makes as if he's a single guy. He wants the perks of marriage like sex, and clean underwear, but when it comes to being considerate, he's not that guy. I guess I just have to have it drilled into me. I've always been a quick learner, but in this regard, I certainly am not.

I've accepted HIM, and his BPD, but I think I've had a breakthrough and I've realized that due to his BPD/NPD(or whatever it is), that I'm in a marriage that doesn't FEEL like a marriage to me. It's easier to accept him than it is that fact.

To me, marriage is being considerate of your partner sometimes. BPDh is more considerate to strangers and others than he is to me. I guess I have to see if this is what I want long term or if I can radically accept being treated like that forever.
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« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2016, 04:42:27 PM »

Excerpt
Plus, his Dad just told me on the trip back from getting BPDh's new car, that BPDh did indeed treat his ex better, and that SHE ruled the roost, and BPDh couldn't do enough, or listen hard enough to her. THIS is my struggle. I'm healthier, I've put up with way more(BPDh has told me this), yet BPDh treats me as if I don't matter.

I think you answered your own question:

Excerpt
I'm also not willing to be a selfish, knife wielding crazy woman in order to get my needs met(like his ex).

Apparently if somebody isn't threatening him with bodily harm they are beneath his notice. Do you have any idea what happened to him when he was young that gave him these gifts?

I've worked with others that have your husband's MO. They would sort of do what you wanted (or act like it), then you would find out later that it was all a crock or completely different than you wanted. If you even mentioned something was amiss they would likely go ballistic. It was the absolute inability to admit to errors or to say they didn't understand that drove me nuts.

My wife has the same problem with being vulnerable. She cannot, will not do it.

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« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2016, 05:03:54 PM »

I think there is a distinction between BPD and learned and enabled behaviors. Writing all behaviors off as BPD is not going to address the behaviors that your H chooses and is responsible for.

BPD is a disorder that leads to dysfunctional behaviors, but by tolerating/enabling them, they can get worse and we are responsible for that. Even a person with limitations or dysfunctional person has learned behaviors. This is apparent with children with disabilities and very young children. Toddlers bite people and pee wherever they want to. That is what toddlers do. But one can teach a toddler not to bite people, and to pee in the potty. If that toddler has a condition that impacts his learning, then teaching those behaviors can be harder, take longer, require a different way of teaching, but eventually a toddler with the capacity to learn will learn. If we say "those behaviors are because he is a toddler" then the toddler will not learn and the behaviors will continue.

BPD is not an intelligence or physical limitation. It is a disorder of processing emotions. That can lead to some of the troublesome behaviors. It can make someone self centered. But is isn't the cause of all inconsiderate behaviors. If that was the case, pw BPD would treat everyone the same, but we see that their behaviors are not the same with everyone they know. They have the most difficult behaviors with people in their intimate circle, but we don't have to tolerate being mistreated.

Rude and inconsiderate behavior is just that. If you say "Oh it is BPD" and accept it, then your H will continue to have rude and inconsiderate behaviors. You can have consequences for people who treat you that way, but he, unlike a toddler, also has choices. He can take his toys and be by himself. ( leave).

What's your bottom line? We hope people don't push is to that, but we have them. This is the staying board, but I think we all have a bottom line. Your bottom line is a boundary that is so important to you that you uphold it, even if the cost of that is to risk the relationship. This may mean that your boundary makes your H uncomfortable. He doesn't get to treat you any way he wants to. But for you to uphold this, you must be willing to take the risk that he can make any choice he wants about that. However, if he can do what he wants without consequences, why would he have any incentive to change?


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« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2016, 06:32:52 PM »

CB, you seem like a really nice person who is living with a very self absorbed difficult man.

I'm going to give you my take on your relationship and being the straight shooter I am, I apologize in advance for being too direct and blunt.

Your husband respected his ex wife because she didn't put up with his crap.

You are still meddling with his issues. What he does with his Christmas present is none of your affair.

You need to learn to say "NO" to him in all variations of no--NFW! HELL NO! NO AND DON'T ASK ME AGAIN! Practice this.

You should have gotten the car you wanted. Likewise he got the car he wanted. Don't let him drive your car and don't drive his. Next time, you want something, you make sure you get it.

You are waiting for him to become more accommodating to you, your wants and needs. Ain't gonna happen. Why should he? He behaves like a tyrant and you put up with it. He has no incentive to change anything.

You need some assertiveness training. You have every right to get what you want. If you wait for him to meet your needs, it's not going to happen.

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« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2016, 12:11:46 AM »

I agree with everything you've all stated. Let me clear some things up though. The Christmas present we took back was MY present that he'd gifted me. He'd also threatened to give it to his son. Basically, I think he's a jerk, to some extent because I've allowed it, or at least didn't know how to stand up to him without making him worse, or him threatening to leave the marriage. In short, yes he likely has BPD/NPD, but he's actually a BULLY.

I agree that I need to be more assertive. I guess I hesitate because every time I am, he accuses me of being like his physically abusive ex. The abuse he endured in his past actually is what sort of drew me to him. We shared that in common, and I helped him get over that(he was also in therapy due to it when we met), and I thought because he'd been abused, and he seemed so laid back, he'd never be abusive himself. Boy, was I wrong.

I honestly don't know what made him this way. His FOO had some issues I suppose, but nothing horrible I've heard about. I feel a lot of his behaviors are learned and a result of the 24 years he and his ex did the dance of dysfunction. He obviously responded to her either out of fear, or maybe misguided respect because she was STRONG(in an abusive way).

But I agree, just because he is this way, doesn't mean he couldn't change it. I KNOW he's capable of simple changes, BPD or not. I do think his continuing this way is a choice, not just a matter of "he can't help it". It may be harder for him, but he is fully capable of making changes that would make HIS life happier, and healthier. I've seen him make a couple small changes, so I know he's capable of it.

I probably do need to be way more assertive, and there have been a couple times I have been. I did it once after taking advice from his brother, who also told me the same thing his Dad did, that BPDh treated his ex so much better, and they don't get it because she was awful(and they didn't even know about the physical abuse), and I'm a much nicer person. He told me that it was sickening how BPDh was with his ex, and that they don't know why he's so awful to me, and that I needed to stand up to him, and tell him off. That gave me some courage, and I thought it was worth a try.

Well, it sort of took BPDh by surprise, and he backed down a couple times. The problem is I couldn't keep doing that long term, because that really isn't who or what I am. Plus, I could tell that at some point, he was going to end up getting physical with me if I kept that up. He and his ex did that dance, but I refuse. I won't abuse, and I don't want to be abused.

I guess I just have to learn to be assertive, and see how that goes. He may still not respect me as he should. He may only respond to those he feels dominated by, or those he fears losing(as with his ex and his kids). But I guess I need to be assertive for ME.

And I already meet almost all of my own needs, and I'm mostly getting used to that. I'd like to be able to have the needs met that I got married to have met though!: the companion of a spouse, mutually enjoyable sex, friendship, and having each others' best interests at heart/having each others' backs. The needs that can only be met in marriage, because you only have one spouse.

Maybe I'll pick up a book on being assertive. It's funny, until this relationship, I'd have said I was assertive. I think I started off that way, but slowly got backed down, bit by bit, and then I got scared... .
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« Reply #13 on: January 05, 2016, 05:21:40 AM »

I agree that I need to be more assertive. I guess I hesitate because every time I am, he accuses me of being like his physically abusive ex. The abuse he endured in his past actually is what sort of drew me to him. We shared that in common, and I helped him get over that(he was also in therapy due to it when we met), and I thought because he'd been abused, and he seemed so laid back, he'd never be abusive himself. Boy, was I wrong.


My h has a habit of accusing me of being abusive and bullying, I remember feeling absolutely horrified that first time he did this. So guess what, I tried to be nicer, more accommodating, anything that would communicate to him that I could never be like that. It changed nothing, he still does the same. I realised that even if I mirrored him exactly there would still be a problem.

Over time I came to realise that these accusations occurred anytime something went against how he wanted or expected things to be, so if I was enforcing a boundary, or disagreeing with a viewpoint, being assertive Being cool (click to insert in post), just doing things differently, I became a controlling abusive bully.

What's changed is I'm not bothered by being called a controlling abusive bully, because I'm not. What I am and what I had to return to was myself, not who I thought my husband wanted me to be. So I am a confident assertive woman with boundaries that I found out if I enforced made me feel stronger, happier and less overwhelmed.

No amount of you bending in the wind to accommodate your husbands demands has made any difference to how he is, but it must leave you feeling like a squished out sponge at times.

So how would you like to feel about the things you have mentioned ?

How could your behaviour have been different using the car buying as an example ?

How will your behaviour differ next time ?
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« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2016, 05:41:18 AM »

With regards to the ex wife, it reminds me of something I read about marriage. My MC also discussed this.

In the book Passionate Marriage, it makes the point that we choose partners who match our level of differentiation- a word for emotional maturity and not being enmeshed. We also unconsciously choose partners with whom we can play out unresolved issues from our own childhood. If we do not work on ourselves - to become more emotionally healthy, or unresolved baggage, we will act on these things over and over again. If we leave the relationship without doing this work- we risk choosing a partner with whom these same issues occur.

One thing you and your H's ex have in common is HIM. ( and it appears he has not matured a whole lot between being with each of you) . You both chose him and he chose you. While you say you are not like her at all, and are more emotionally healthy than she is, one thing to consider is that both of you are/were in an emotionally charged and dramatic relationship with him. He was playing out his issues and the two of you were/are too.

It was my MC who very wisely pointed out that two opposites could be two sides of the same (drama/dysfunction) coin. Any role on the drama triangle, be it persecutor, rescuer, victim is still drama dysfunction. My H tends to be stoic. If I were to hypothetically leave and seek out someone who is sensitive, someone I see as his opposite- I would most likely be playing out the same drama with him, different roles maybe, but same drama, unless I took steps to see my role in this and my issues.

Consider this: Your H may have played out "victim" to a bully ( his ex ). Now, he found someone he can play bully with.

Now for the humbling part ( which I relate to as well). Passionate Marriage states that each person in the relationship considers themselves to be the more "differentiated" one. This was true for us and we each admitted that we saw ourselves as the more emotionally healthy one. Sorry- what we see in our partners matches us in some way.

You have mentioned that you are so much nicer and accommodating than your H's ex, and so you are wondering why he doesn't treat you nicer. But if he is playing the bully/ victim drama, it's the same game, different players, perhaps until you stop allowing him to play bully.
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« Reply #15 on: January 05, 2016, 09:20:07 AM »

Excerpt
It's funny, until this relationship, I'd have said I was assertive. I think I started off that way, but slowly got backed down, bit by bit, and then I got scared... .

and

Excerpt
But if he is playing the bully/ victim drama, it's the same game, different players, perhaps until you stop allowing him to play bully.

It's all well and fine to say "OK, I'm not doing this anymore" and putting your foot down. It works the 1st time, it works the 2nd time... .But after the 3673rd time it gets old, it gets tiring. I think that's the real issue we all eventually face - the BPD behaviors don't go away when we're assertive, they just get tamped down. But little by little they come oozing out again, testing us, hunting for that little crack of weakness that can be exploited. It's that little piece of radical acceptance that to me is the hardest to deal with - that you basically have to give up hope that anything is going to change.
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« Reply #16 on: January 05, 2016, 03:05:16 PM »

CB, I've been following your situation for some time and one question keeps coming to mind. What makes you think your H is borderline? I would readily agree that he has a personality disorder, but how specifically does he meet the criteria for BPD?

I frequently think of dealing with pwBPD as similar to horse training. Both pwBPD and horses tend to use their "reactive mind" rather than their "thinking mind" and we want to encourage them to use the latter rather than the former.

Horses constantly test each other (and us) to see who is the "alpha". It makes a lot of sense in the wild because they're prey animals with a quick fear response whose primary method of survival is flight. They want to be sure that the individual calling the shots is competent and trustworthy (usually an older mare who has "been there done it," instead of a stallion, who are frequently replaced in the herd by a stronger youngster.

With my horses, I notice that they regularly test me and I need to be firm and confident to show them that I'm the leader, otherwise they will try to take control themselves, which would be dangerous for both them and me. When they realize that I'm to be trusted, they settle down and are willing and relaxed.

How this relates to you, your husband, CB, and his ex-wife is that if indeed he suffers from a lack of solid identity as pwBPD do, then by you being so compliant with his demands, you've shown yourself to be "untrustworthy," while his ex-wife bossed him around and he could "relax." (I know, it makes little sense to a Non.)



I recently heard an anecdote about a trainer who worked with tigers, bears, lions, giraffes, etc. and was asked what is the most dangerous animal he works with. His response: horses. And the reason was that we tend to let down our guard around horses but since they have one of the fastest reaction times of any animal, they can be far more dangerous than working with wild animals, where one never lets down one's guard.

We Nons frequently let down our guard with our BPD loved ones, making assumptions that because they're behaving well, then that "they've seen the light" and that good behavior ought to continue now that they understand us. Typically, I've noticed, that is a set-up for getting blindsided by some wacky behavior we didn't see coming.

In a previous post, CB, I said that I think you need to be more assertive with your husband. Unfortunately that will probably involve extinction bursts and some other unpleasant experiences. However, if you bend to that, you will have reinforced even greater acting out. So tread cautiously. I'm glad you have a therapist and I think you need to include her in practicing how you can reclaim yourself in your relationship.

To go back to horses, it's really hard when I see someone treating their horse the way they would treat a dog--trying to win their horse's affection through lovey-dovey behavior and treats. What happens is that the horse starts disrespecting them and pushing them around and behaving badly. That same horse, however, will be respectful and obedient to another person who hasn't shown signs of weakness (which is how that horse has interpreted the overly kind behavior of their owner).

It's a hard climb to get people to change their behavior toward their horse when they've overindulged the horse, but it's possible. Horses have a sense of fairness and they appreciate a treat well-earned or a kind scratch, but when people get overly affectionate, the horse feels trapped and restricted and starts feeling overwhelmed. (Some horses will tolerate a lot more than others.)

So, CB, in this meandering metaphor, I think your overly kind behavior toward your husband has backfired and caused him to think of you as weak. It's possible to regain his respect, but you're going to have to make some behavioral changes which will be very hard for you because you want to be a kind and loving person. But think of this--if the meaning of your kind and loving gestures is misinterpreted by your husband, what truly is the meaning of your behavior? What you intend? or how it's received?
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« Reply #17 on: January 05, 2016, 03:47:22 PM »

So what you're saying is horses have BPD? Just kidding. What a great metaphor! I'll have to remember this one.  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #18 on: January 05, 2016, 09:41:05 PM »

So what you're saying is horses have BPD?

Sad to say, but all my horses have been more emotionally balanced than both BPD husbands, and I'm including one that had grand mal seizures and a brain tumor. 

It's nice to have four legged friends to hang out with when the human drama becomes too weird.  Being cool (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #19 on: January 07, 2016, 01:59:29 PM »

  CB, I use the horse metaphor a lot.  I think of myself as a "BPD whisperer",    Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)     Horses are pretty straightforward about telling you what they are feeling.  Especially once you get to know them.  Very much like pwBPD, you have to pick your boundaries and hold to the ones that really matter.  We had a horse once that had a really bad habit of trying to crowd me, get in my space.  Not a big deal when out in a pasture, but if they want to crowd you up against the wall of the trailer, that's no good.  So, bigtime boundary with that horse, that we never gave an inch on, 100% respect for personal space.  Other horses I would slack off on, because I knew with one two signals I would have their full attention.  Now, Back to CB's post.    CB, I would consider this a victory for you.  You wanted him to get a car and he did.  I think to go any "deeper" than that, is an error on your part.  Probably a bit controlling.   By same token, I would not allow him to control your car buying choices.     

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« Reply #20 on: January 07, 2016, 03:18:03 PM »

I would like to address the physical abuse you are worried about. I used to have the problems with physical abuse. Putting my foot down would result in a strait forward Bully Attitude. He still turns into a bully at times but I separate myself from him. You have to remove yourself from his presence if that happens. It may be a huge step for you to do that, it certainly was for me. My husband also has said I was abusive or controlling, I laughed at the thought. I am none of those things and just because he says it doesn't make it true. He knows how to play your emotions against you.

I always thought being nice was the way to get approval from people. I have now realized that there is such a thing as being too nice. Have you read anything about codependency? I only bring it up because this is what made me realize what I was doing. I was using niceness as a way to control things. If I was overly nice when my husband was being mean, I was trying to control his mood. He would take advantage of it, knowing very well what I wanted and would take more than I really wanted to give. Niceness is a weakness to those who want to manipulate you. They know you will not stand up to them, they know you will always forgive them, so they don't change anything. Because they have no reason to change. It stops when you say it stops. He can't put you down if you are not there to be put down. You could have bought the car you wanted if you had said, I want this car, this is the car I am getting. You wanted his approval so that is what you sought for. Stop seeking his approval, he doesn't seek it from you.

Approval is not all it's cracked up to be. I stopped looking for approval and a lot of things changed. I read the book Codependent no more and so many things clicked for me. Why I was doing what I was doing, it spelled it all out in black and white why I was accepting this terrible behavior.
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« Reply #21 on: January 07, 2016, 03:40:20 PM »

It's all well and fine to say "OK, I'm not doing this anymore" and putting your foot down. It works the 1st time, it works the 2nd time... .But after the 3673rd time it gets old, it gets tiring. I think that's the real issue we all eventually face - the BPD behaviors don't go away when we're assertive, they just get tamped down. But little by little they come oozing out again, testing us, hunting for that little crack of weakness that can be exploited. It's that little piece of radical acceptance that to me is the hardest to deal with - that you basically have to give up hope that anything is going to change.

This is important and why a mixture of boundaries and acceptance are required. You wont stop the river flowing as that is its nature but you can dam islands in the flow so that it flows by following the path of least resistance. The key to boundaries is selecting those islands you wish to keep free of the drama. If you try to dam everything you create a flood that spills everywhere and nowhere remains dry
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« Reply #22 on: January 07, 2016, 03:46:53 PM »

My wife is motivated soly by impulse, need and instant gratification. As long as she makes up a half plausible excuse after the event she believes she can do anything, and anyone who does not believe the excuse (even if its the umpteenth consecutive excuse) is regarded as bullying and abusing her.

To deny her need=being abusive and bullying, she will go find someone else (rescuer) armed with twisted realities to validate that point of view.

Toxic triangulation is rife.

Motivations of obligation and responsibility are virtually absent, even though she she can blow smoke the is a mirage of responsibility.
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« Reply #23 on: January 07, 2016, 04:14:51 PM »

Excerpt
My wife is motivated soly by impulse, need and instant gratification. As long as she makes up a half plausible excuse after the event she believes she can do anything, and anyone who does not believe the excuse (even if its the umpteenth consecutive excuse) is regarded as bullying and abusing her.

This is my BPDh exactly! Do what you want, ask questions later, or call ME controlling. I think CloudyDays is correct too. I don't actually act nicer just to control him in any way, but I do do it to avoid his anger and threats. I can honestly say I've just always tried to be nice, as it makes me feel like a good person. I believe we are all judged by our actions and choices. I want mine to reflect that I'm a good, caring, loving person. I do see though how this has me caught in a trap of being the doormat, and the one who gets less, puts up with more, and compromises past where I should.

I've definitely had shades of being codependent, and have read up on it. I'll find a complete book on it. I've been sick almost this entire month, first with an awful cold, now I just am recovering from the stomach flu. I seriously think this toxicity is effecting my physical healthy. Neither BPDh, nor my daughter got either of these, and I got my flu shot earlier this year.

He was nice and stayed home to take care of me yesterday, and we had a nice day. What's sad, is I have to admit it entered my mind that maybe he had poisoned me. He's never stayed home any other day, even if I asked him to, and this time it was his idea. That's probably just a crazy thought, but he just seems to lack conscience or humanity at times, so I'm not going to beat myself up for it as least occurring to me... .
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« Reply #24 on: January 08, 2016, 10:18:44 AM »

I think the value of the Codependent no more book came from learning my motives for doing things. And it also hit home for my FOO. I didn't grow up in a perfect home, I always thought it was a normal home and once I grew up I realized it was far from normal. It was very abnormal and my emotional health took a huge hit. I became very self reliant because I was neglected emotionally, I know how to take care of myself. But I sought that out in my relationship, I often felt like I was taking care of my parents instead of them taking care of me. The point of all this is that the book made me realize why I was doing the things that I did. Why I kept accepting terrible behavior from my husband. He was not an alcoholic at the time but he was abusive in so many ways, because I was allowing him to walk all over me. You teach people how to treat you by the boundaries that you give them. Some people don't push boundaries so there is no problems. But some people will push as hard as they can. This is when I realized that I could not longer be a door mat. It's so important to learn about yourself. I was stuck for a long time learning about my husband, trying to figure out what made him tick so that I knew how to deal with him. I wasn't paying attention to myself or my feelings, I was focusing everything on him. In the process I became very lost and I didn't have any happiness.

I can truly say I have happiness now. It's an amazing feeling to feel free of caring what my husband thinks. He can think whatever he wants of me but it doesn't make any of it true. I know the truth and that is what matters. His thoughts don't control me anymore.
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« Reply #25 on: January 08, 2016, 01:27:55 PM »

I grew up in a really stable home, and I'm sure some of my behaviors can be traced back to my FOO, but I've never been a believer in blaming my FOOs for my adult choices. I'm way beyond ever thinking I can "fix" BPDh, and I don't actually think I ever really thought that. I didn't initially think he needed "fixing", just that he'd gotten out of something abusive, and I could relate to that. His PD didn't become apparent until after we'd married. I wanted to stand by him, wanted him to get help, but always realized that HE had to want to. And trust me, he didn't seek help until he decided he was willing to. Even then, he wasn't fully committed.

I'm working on not caring so much about his opinions or judgements of ME. I've always realized that just because he thinks or feels something, doesn't make it true. I think it just bothered me because it was true to HIM. Sort of how you comfort a child who'd had a nightmare. We know it's not true, but we still comfort him. I don't JADE anymore, but that used to be a battle. I guess I just came to realize that no explanation, no offer of my intent or thoughts, mattered one iota to him anyway. He wanted to paint me black, so he would.

I'm seeing more and more that boundaries need to be strongly defended for MY sake. For my sense of peace, and so I don't cave, and become resentful. My happiness is becoming more and more important to me. It always was, but I just got sucked into "peace at any price", and the cost was always to ME.

I think I'm in a much better place than I was a little over a year ago, and things have been much better since we reconciled. I just think he's been testing my boundaries, even though I only have a few. He wasn't used to me having ANY, and he likes to feel in control. For the most part, I've done really well maintaining my few boundaries, and I've decided that I'm not going to feel guilty when further boundaries need set. My happiness matters too, and he's used my desire for peace and staying married as a means to control me.

This change has to come from me. Because it's for me, and about me.
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« Reply #26 on: January 08, 2016, 02:02:03 PM »

Your issues may have not started with your FOO, but they came from somewhere. My point was that the book opened my eyes to how I really felt about things. The "wanting to please" attitude that I had. Or the wanting to keep the peace frame of mind.

You have been in two abusive relationships as far as I can tell, figuring out why you are attracted to that type of relationship is important. He may have been completely different when you met him, all of our relationships were not insane right off the bat. My husband was not abusive when I met him, he was extremely charming and funny, helpful, loving, he was a night in shining armor, treated me like a princess. But there were red flags that I chose to ignore for whatever reason.

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« Reply #27 on: January 09, 2016, 06:43:25 PM »

Excerpt
What is your experience with your BPD partner, in regards to decision making, or priorities? Is this just a basic issue that most with BPD struggle with? If so, I might feel better. I've never been able to reconcile that this issue is just due to the BPD.

BPD and dramatic PDs have to do with a lack of a sense of self and emotional dysregulation.  The inability to manage one's emotional states from swinging wildly to and fro, up and down makes the person and their lives unstable.  One would not expect a person with BPD or something similar, to have the patience and the adult ability to defer gratification, all of which is required of making reasoned and measured decisions and ordering our priorities.  Right?  If a person does not manage their own emotional states well, then they are inherently unstable, and all aspects of their life will reflect that instability.  Impulsivity will lead, just as child does not have the developmental skill to quiet their mind and heart and make adult, reasoned decisions.  

The person in my life often made decisions that left me aghast and scratching my head in utter confusion.  Yes, this is common with personality disorders.  This played out here on these boards everyday.

Excerpt
If so, I might feel better.

Facing the facts isn't always about feeling better.  In fact, there are some realities we aren't suppose to feel better about, but that doesn't mean it's not important to face it nonetheless.  Some realities are quite sobering, and don't make us feel better in the moment, but nonetheless give us the power and the ability to own our choices to make good decisions for ourselves.

Radical Acceptance on your part has nothing to do with validating or tolerating or agreeing with someone elses behavior.  

It has to to with getting a grip on what is real and present, whether we like it or not.  If he were in a wheel chair, you wouldn't like that either, but it doesn't make his disability go away wether you like it, agree with, or even whether you validate or not.  YOu may validate he is in a wheel chair, you may invalidate his being in a wheel chair, doesn't matter... .he's still in a wheel chair. Right?

Radical Acceptance is about accepting reality that YOU have no control over certain things, including others, including other's behaviors or other's mental health status.   Things we don't like are HERE and it's present whether you like it or not.  The control you have is only about YOU and what you now want to do about what is here and what is present.   Instead of avoiding reality that is HERE through drugs, alcohol, and other dependency tactics that numb us to the reality of life and full ownership of our choices (and one of those tactics that is similar to drugs and alcohol is codependency) RA ask you to get real about what IS present.  Radical Acceptance is about embracing what is present, and asks... . Now what do you want to do about taking care of yourself based on your daily choice to choose be in a marriage with a person who is emotionally unstable and probably always will be to some degree?   How do you want to take ownership of your life and your wellbeing given the truth of what is present?  THAT is what Radical Acceptance is about.  It's not about changing another person or agreeing or validating or any of those things.  Your H is who he is, whether you like it or not, whether you agree with it or not.  RA is about YOU and your life and YOUR choices based on what is real and present.  

Excerpt
I guess I accept this, but I don't like it. I haven't totally made peace with his choices that he makes as if he's a single guy. He wants the perks of marriage like sex, and clean underwear, but when it comes to being considerate, he's not that guy. I guess I just have to have it drilled into me. I've always been a quick learner, but in this regard, I certainly am not.

I've accepted HIM, and his BPD, but I think I've had a breakthrough and I've realized that due to his BPD/NPD(or whatever it is), that I'm in a marriage that doesn't FEEL like a marriage to me. It's easier to accept him than it is that fact.

To me, marriage is being considerate of your partner sometimes. BPDh is more considerate to strangers and others than he is to me. I guess I have to see if this is what I want long term or if I can radically accept being treated like that forever.

Again, I think you continue to confuse the idea of RA with the ability to tolerate abuse or agree to something or even the idea that if you accept something it's going to change something about the other person.   It doesn't really have anything to do with that.   Maybe because the term has the word 'acceptance' in it, it sounds like it is about accepting a person into your life no matter what.  But, it's not about acceptance of abuse or a person... .it's not about that.  It's a shift into mentally accepting what IS present whether you like it or not... .and it's about seeing it and really accepting the gravity and weight of what is present and true whether you like it or not... .without sugar coating it or escaping into rationalizations and self-medication that tell us we can somehow make this go away or have control over someone else.  That is what radical acceptance is.  It's about not fooling yourself or lying to yourself and getting real about what is present.  SO that you can take ownership of YOUR life and focus on YOUR responsibility to yourself based on reality.

Your H treats you poorly in ways you describe on this board over and over and over again.  When you radically accept the truth of your H, you will likely shift more and more into a focus on yourself and what you want to do about taking ownership of YOUR LIFE given what is real and present... .and likely you will shift away from a focus on him when you move into true RA.  In other words, you will begin to ask questions about yourself and your own choices and coping skills and your own decisions and not so much about him.  In fact, the title of your thread is

Skewed Priorities and How To Deal With Them:  

It started out as a description of your H's skewed priorities, from your perspective.  That's all very interesting, and I agree, he sounds like a very selfish, unkind, even cruel person.  But you have no control over him.  Only you.

A more interesting and potentially rich exploration might be to examine and gently question your own priorities.  Given you fear your husband may even have the potential to actually POISON you, have expressed fear of him hurting you physically and that you are confident he ENJOYS seeing you in PAIN,  I would say your continued curiosity about what drives YOUR own choices and priorities is much more interesting and certainly has the potential to be more productive... .than a focus on HIS priorities about car buying etc.,  of which you have no control, and not even much if any influence.  

He is who he is.

YOUR choices are the only choices you have full ownership of.

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