Tired now And yet the saga continues...?

[Lou12]

Can someone please tell me how to put an end to this row because quite honestly I am over it but it appears that my BPD is not.

A brief overview for those who haven't heard me drone on about it for the last week! Bored of discussing it myself now ... .

All was going ok, he put the phone down on me twice in one day in mid conversation because I was discussing something he obviously didn't want to listen to.

I was incredibly angry and upset because of this and we both remained NC for 8 days.

I sent a message explaining why I was angry, I used SET... he ignored.

24hrs later I sent another message using SET again... .reply was 'I am not angry was just busy'

This infuriated me again and I sent a message saying 'I'm going to leave you alone a while longer'... .ignored

I sent a message 24 hours later saying 'I'm over it now, I need to just step back for a second to understand you better. Are we over this?' Reply from him... 'yes I think we are'.

I messaged goodnight I'll call you tomorrow... .ignored. I called and no reply. He calls me back later that day and apologises that he's been busy.

Proceeds to tell me during that phone call that during the week we had NC, 2 people he knows died, he broke his phone and he's been really sick. I reply I am sorry to hear that, how awful etc.

Night time comes and I send my usual goodnight message... .guess what ignored!

I know I am back in ST and I honestly believe it's because I did not validate why he never made contact. The whole phone call was to tell me that he was actually the victim here and I was the wicked one. He hasn't asked but I know He wants me to apologise for not contacting him for 8 days because of what he has been through except I know the storey is BS.

I know it is bs because whilst he was pretending his phone was lost and he WAS NOT angry he blocked me on social media then unblocked me (obviously he was undecided whether to go with the angry route or the indifferent one).

So now I realise he wants me to validate the invalid? He wants an apology for me being upset about something he did!

I just want to resolve this ASAP because I can not be bothered to deal with something that is so stupid any longer.

Suggestions please on how I can resolve this and retain dignity?

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[TheRealJongoBong]

Let's see if I have this straight. You were talking to him on the phone and triggered him about something. He has a tantrum like a 3 year old and hangs up on you . You get angry at this and don't speak to him in a while, which I guess triggers him more. When you finally talk to him he acts like nothing happened, makes lame excuses, and expects you to soothe him. This makes you angry again because he's acting like a 3 year old.

I couldn't find why he hung up on you in the first place, but it seems to me that's the thing that is still bothering him.

[Lou12]

Thanks Jongo. Believe it or not it was a normal conversation and I was asking him a normal question and he just hung up because he was In company. No particular reason from what I recall other than him being an ass.

[TheRealJongoBong]

Do you think that he hang up on you deliberately to hurt your feelings or did he hang up for some reason not connected with you directly? Put another way, was he deliberately trying to hurt you or was he acting to protect himself somehow? Understanding his motivations here would be very helpful to see what's really going on.

[Lou12]

I'd say he was just being bloody rude Jongo if I'm honest . Chatting about the day, someone in the room talks to him, he couldn't hear me and just put phone down on me. Nothing to it than that. Except he could hear he just couldn't be bothered an was being incredibly disrespectful.

[TheRealJongoBong]

I guess I'm a little confused. To me this is either an action from somebody who either doesn't care about you very much and is stringing you along or the action of a space cadet. Does he have ADHD?

The last question comes from my latest digging. There seems to be a very common comorbidity of BPD with ADHD, like 1 in 5 BPD sufferers also have ADHD. My wife from all appearances has both. I was originally attracted to her because of her original thinking and spontaneity which are both hallmarks of ADHD. Her inability to keep herself and her surroundings organized are also indicators.

[Lou12]

Thanks for the reply Jongo. I am pretty certain about how he feels about me and if we take into consideration everyone else's posts then I'm guessing it indicates none of them care .

Definitely not ADHD but I have considered asperghers before now.

[waverider]

He will be needs driven. He will come back to the fold when he  has a 'need' to, as opposed to a real desire to rebond. No doubt in his mind he convinced himself he did nothing wrong to start with. Whether that is true or not he will have convinced himself so. Rehashing that will get no where.

How to end it? The ball really is in his court, you have left the door open he knows there will be no drama to walk back in. Probably arrive fashionably late for greater effect.

Just get on with doing your own thing in the meantime, it will reduce your frustration over something you can't change

[Jessica84]

If it is the act of hanging up that offends you most in this situation, this is where boundaries help. We use them to protect our values - like manners and respect. You consider it rude and disrespectful to hang up on someone. I agree, though mine only does it when he's coming unglued, in which case I'm relieved he hung up! But I digress... .

Sometimes I throw the BPD tools out the window and talk to him like I would anyone else. In your case I might say something like "I understand there are times you need to get off the phone with me. Just have the courtesy of saying so before hanging up." It's clear, non-threatening and reflects your values.

[Lou12]

Thank you both. Yes Waverider you were right I took another step back and left him be and I am now super white

Yes I think that's a really good suggestion Jessica about talking to him. I have to be very careful to assess my Bf on him and not on his BPD and everyone else's. I have a tendency to read other stories and think 'oh I better not do this or that'.

Anyways he's back with the I love you's, suppose he just needed a little more time to calm

Himself.

[Lou12]

Just wondered guys is it common for your BPD to go on a big high following a dsyregulation? He's come back with the 'I miss you' 'I love you' etc. usually I've left at this point in the past so I am unsure if this 'idealisation' at this point is the usual?

Something else I've realised that I definitely realise I must work on is how much he's still affecting my moods. I've found myself on a happy high with him now, whilst last week I was feeling a little low. I have got to put a stop to him having these effects in my mood. It's something I will keep practicing and probably stems from my own abandonment issues!

[TheRealJongoBong]

Just wondered guys is it common for your BPD to go on a big high following a dsyregulation?

Absolutely. I always attributed to being the focus of attention while it's happening.

[Jessica84]

Yes, it's normal... .unfortunately.

It's part of their push/pull:

They push us away = we feel sad

They pull us back in = we feel happy

I used to feel like a toy monkey:

He pushes this button, I dance

He pushes that button, I cry

He pushes this one, I get mad/jealous/annoyed and on and on... .

I had a lot of buttons! I had to stop being his toy monkey and took the remote control away from him. How? The answer was so simple, but I have to give credit to the wisdom of the members on this forum for it... .That is to not get excited when he pulls you in, to not get down when he pushes you away, and to not get swept up by his emotional storms but validate him or remove yourself instead. Find your center and hold on tight! He's been pushing these buttons for a long time to successfully trigger these responses from you, so he will keep pushing until he realizes it no longer works.

For what it's worth, I don't think pwBPD do any of this intentionally or maliciously, but as waverider said, to fill a need. When this need doesn't get met by us, they find new targets. Mine tried to woo other women, but they weren't interested. He verbally abused friends, coworkers or family until they blew up or cut off contact with him. The only ones who weathered the storm were the ones who didn't dance like a monkey for him. Unfortunately, he still finds new targets. When he can't shout at me, I know someone's gonna get it... .but it's not going to be me. This will continue for him as long as he refuses therapy or treatment. I just had to make peace with that.

I also had to forgive myself for turning into a monkey! I'd never allowed anyone else to treat me like that before, so why him? Not sure... .but I made a commitment to myself to stop getting swept up by his moods and phases. I'm still a work in progress. He still gets to me sometimes because I haven't figured out where all my buttons are yet. I'm only human (and part monkey)  . It takes constant vigilance to keep yourself grounded, but it does become second nature... .eventually.

[Lou12]

Thank you Jongo and Jessica (aka monkey ) it really does help when you have someone who knows what your going through.

It my new thing to practice 'remaining centre' when he flies all over the place. I guess I fear 'this time' he's not going to come back but I am fully aware that there is not a lot I can do even if that's the case so I have to let the tide roll over me.

I really hope non of this is intentional Jessica. I do have a tendency to believe that as sometimes I say something to him about certain behaviours and he genuinely looks confused as to what I am talking about.

My bf is very passive aggressive so he doesn't rage vocally all that often. More the ST and definitely loves to invalidate me by denying there is anything even wrong with him.

You know what the weird thing is, since we have been together my boundaries have never been so strong. Where as before I was very forgiving to things that hurt me with many people around me I now stand up for myself a lot more. I find that slightly ironic being in a relationship with someone who attempts to mentally weaken me (even if unintentional)!

I hope you have had some resolve Jessica?

[Icthelight]

I too will chime in with yes, after my wife dysregulates or rages, she usually feels better and becomes nicer and more affectionate. It's like they release toxins that are slowly poisoning them and making them ill. Once they vomit these toxins   on us, they feel better. Unfortunately, the good feelings don't last that long.

I too struggle with not letting my wife's moods affect me so much. Depersonalizing is helping. How do I depersonalize? I keep learning more about BPD and continue to tell myself that her unhappiness and issues are caused by her illness, not me. Yes, I sometimes contribute to her unhappiness but I'm not the sole source of her unhappiness as she believes and has told me I am all of these years.

Love him, but make him less significant.

[Jessica84]

Interesting Icthelight. Mine doesn't feel better after he dysregulates. He feels better after I do.

It's like getting me upset takes it off of him somehow. I noticed the more riled up and upset I would get, the calmer he would be - kind of looks like that indifference Lou mentioned. BUT--- If I was able to stay centered and keep him from accomplishing this, he would be forced to cope in a new way. He would either calm down on his own, or he found new targets. If he couldn't settle his emotions down or find someone else to upset, he fell into depression. And that's where he is now... .forced to swallow his own poisons I guess.

Lou - I have the same fears... .that 'this time' might be the end since we're in murky waters right now. He's been pushing my buttons again and it's making our r/s unstable - though he probably doesn't understand why he's doing it. It just makes me crazy that he keeps finding buttons to push! I'm trying to let it roll off but I'm still kind of irked and feeling self-righteous about his recent behaviors - ugh, it's throwing me off balance! Hard to get back on higher ground when you get knocked around by the storm. Look at me go... .here I am dancing for him again! How are you "letting the tide roll over"?

[TheRealJongoBong]

Mine doesn't feel better after he dysregulates. He feels better after I do.

I've experienced this one too before I learned enough to see I was allowing myself to be controlled/manipulated. My wife would become quite calm after I dysregulated, in complete contrast to the moments earlier when she was actively trying (and succeeding, sigh) to push my buttons. Once she proved to herself that I was the problem she could show that she was still invulnerable and in complete control. And that's what she really wanted.

[Lou12]

Yes mine does to Jongo and Jessica.

I am not sure how much of this I can take without going loopy myself, it's exhausting.

Over one dysreg and he's now onto another. More ST, more passive aggressiveness and I suspect more gas lighting when he comes back saying that yet again his moods are all in my head. Probably all because A) I called him selfish or B) because I never reciprocated when he hugged me and said I love you. But I was irritated hence why I called him selfish. I am literally not allowed to have triggers myself or it sends him into one!

[Jessica84]

You're allowed to have triggers. These are your feelings. I do know how you feel. He can go off the deep end, I'm never allowed a minor splash in the shallow end! But I'd be careful calling him selfish. Our goal is not make things worse or escalate things.

Sounds like you weren't quite ready to reciprocate with the hugs and I love you's yet. And that's ok. They tend to rush our natural process. We're supposed to be over things when they are... .but it doesn't work that way. Sometimes, we need more time to come down from the drama before getting back to the lovey-dovey stuff. If we let them rush us, we're more likely to slip up and make things worse. We need to realize when we're not ready. I know for me, it's when I'm still livid or I'm at least feeling uneasy about the situation.

[Lou12]

Thank you Jessica, you really have been a big help.

I know I need to kerb my responses but it's hard sometimes.

He's now not talking to me again! I feel like I am constantly being beat down into submission and I need to be a mannequin.

Every time it happens I'm panicking that he won't come back. I am working in changing the cycle by not leaving him like I have in the past but I'm wondering now if he is just going to keep going at me until I do?

We spent a some what lovely night together (couple of nights ago) but his push/pull was worse than I've ever seen it. He kept wanting affection and the minute I gave it he would push me away, 5 mins later he'd do the same again. Went on for most of our time together. I fear his behaviours will get worse until I am left with no option but to snap.

I'm sick of hearing all about the 'hot' celebs to. Her body this and that, which I either agree with or ignore. He tells me he's thinking he might move to the other side of the world. He does anything he can to get me to react and be jealous!

Everything seems like a game to him from the outside but I know underneath how sensitive he is.

I've messaged him today saying 'I know I get cross with you sometimes because of little things you do but you know I love you and I'm in for the long haul'.

That was my way of minimising his behaviour and reassuring him but I'm not sure if I have handled this right? I'm still learning :/

[Jessica84]

We're all still learning... .and I'm afraid, always will be! Get one thing resolved, they create a new one.

Try to let go of your fears of abandonment. Understand that he can't. I'm not the greatest with validation, but when it works, it works! Beyond difficult to do when you're the target. But do-able. My bf's recent ST was based on a grudge of something I said at the end of our trip. I had no idea he was so bothered by it. It was so minor, but when he reminded me of it, I could see how it made him feel invalidated. Now mind you, there's been a lot of that button-pushing on his part before he finally clued me in as to what his problem was!

So I used SET and here is how it went: (SET responses sometimes include an apology, where warranted, and sometimes normalizing - that anyone would be upset in the same situation, again where accurate)


me: I'm sorry I made you mad (support/apology). I guess I wouldn't like to hear that either. (empathy/normalizing). I'll try to do better in the future (truth).

Him: I'm sorry I got mad too. I was really pissed off at the time. (Long rant about his pissed-offedness... .exact opposite of JADE!... .then finally) Well, it was a long day. We were both tired and said things we shouldn't have. I'm glad we went. I had a lot of fun with you. We had a great trip.

Couldn't believe it. Amazes me every time I see validation work. I'd feel so patronized by that much validation. But in a dysregulated state, he needs it as much as I need oxygen. I had to acknowledge that what I said hurt him, apologize and validate before we could move on. Once I did, his emotions settled down and he was able to think clearly again and see the real picture. The push/pull/silence thing has stopped. For now, until the next thing... .Lol

Now as for the "things we shouldn't have said" stuff he said to me? I got my validation elsewhere - a friend, my mom, this forum - then moved on. So by the time we had the conversation above, I was in much less agitated state to give him the validation he needed.

You can do this too... .without snapping... .just give yourself time! Keep practicing the tools... .they really do work. And when they don't, back away... .try again later.

[waverider]

Interesting Icthelight. Mine doesn't feel better after he dysregulates. He feels better after I do.

His dysregulation has been normalized by you joining him in this zone.

Hence no reaction can often fuel it. Where as allowing your anger and frustration to show in a controlled and more centered way can provide validation that it is ok to be emotionally reactive, but provide a better example of directing that emotional reaction.

The point being is that dysregulation is excessive emotional over reaction, not that they shouldn't have any emotional reaction at all. So setting examples of how to safely display our emotions is no bad thing.

If we dont display our true emotions they can attribute any they want. Stonewalling is alienating

[Lou12]

Thank you for that waverider! I really needed to hear that it's ok for me to express how I feel, I was beginning to think I had to have no voice, no emotion and no feeling in order to keep the relationship on an even keel.

It took a lot Jessica, but I ate poop and took your advice and messaged and apologised. To be fair on reflection if he had have done the same to me I wouldn't be happy either but I struggle to apologise if I feel that over all he was being an ass and then I respond to that by snapping at him.

It probably could have been a million small things I could have done to be honest (things a non wouldn't bat an eyelid at) but I took my chances with the one I feel would of hurt me.

Still no reply so I assume I should just leave him now?

[TheRealJongoBong]

I'm sorry I got mad too.

He apologized? I've heard of this type of thing happening but I thought it was just a fable.

[Lou12]

Haha Jongo I'm yet to hear these words too!

[waverider]

My wife prefers to hit the restart button and wipe what went before. An apology is dwelling in the "failed" attempt. To refer to it is holding grudges. Ironically in order to hit the restart button she will ask for an apology first...

Her favorite at the moment is accusing me of being rude, when I speak my truth. I think this comes from a FOO where everyone hid their truths and played facades, resulting in everyone being suspicious of each others real meanings.

[Jessica84]

I'm sorry I got mad too.

He apologized? I've heard of this type of thing happening but I thought it was just a fable.

Mine either over-apologizes or stubbornly refuses to see any wrongdoing on his part. Not much middle ground. The example above was almost... .normal. Always shocked when that happens.

But it did take 2 weeks of being painted black, then white, then painting himself black, then silent treatment... .he definitely took the long way to get there.