Is it ok to lie to your BPD spouse to avoid conflict or improve a situation?

[Chansen]

I have battled with this question for so long. For example, my BPD wife asks me, "did you ____ (take out the trash, pay that bill, do that chore, etc. small things really... .) you promised me you would do/not do?" If I had not done/done because of a justifiable circumstance, and tell her I had not/did for these reasons, it could lead so much pain and destruction... .even though most people would simply understand... .however, if I lie and say I did do it (in consideration that she can't possibly find out the truth or I can do as I promised still without her knowing), the day moves on pleasantly and my daughter and I save ourselves the terrible emotional stress she would bring to us.

Where I get stumped is my faith. I am a Christian and I know lying is a sin, but when you are living with someone who simply does not act "normal" to normal mistakes, I feel the need to justify saving myself and my daughter from the pain (is stealing wrong when your family is starving? seems to be a similar question... .). I do see that we should always try to keep our word and this is the utmost solution, but things do happen and when we admit it humbly, our spouses should receive it kindly... .but as we know this is not the case with BPD.

More personally and specifically, an example would be how messy I can be and how this drives my wife CRAZY. The other day we were driving and I was in the back sit with our daughter and I was eating and something small spilled on my new pants. In most relationships, this would not be a big deal, but literally I felt my adrenaline kick in and quickly tried to remove the evidence... .unfortunately she noticed something and asked me if I got my pants dirty and I stated an alternative excuse that I was only cleaning our dogs hair from my pants since they were black... .It avoided waking up our daughter who was sleeping from my wife's outburst and saved a nice day at the mall where we were going... .I am lost here, it seems harmless and I see the positive results, but I dread always that she will find out even the simplest lie and push further into her pre-existing and pointless distrust against me... .but dread even more the pain she can bring... .but then feel terribly guilty for lying. It is such a circle... .

I don't know what to think... .does anyone else experience the same thing? What convictions and examples do you have?

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[ArleighBurke]

My opinion: Do not go down this path of lying.

1) I think you'll just get more and more twisted within yourself - where is your boundary - at what point do you say truth is required?

2) She will know - or suspect lying - and this will undermine her faith in you. You will probably get caught out - which causes even worse pain for her (and then you).

3) Your character is not worth it. Be a man of honour - courage - truth - not hiding from conflict.

(I did this through my entire childhood - little white lies and alternate explainations to mum to disguise my true feelings/motivations. It erodes your self-confidence and after a while you doubt your own motivations. I only quit that habit at 35!)

So what to do:

I agree being honest causes conflict. Certainly. You need to work out how to ride that. I find being wordy helps.

"I know I promised to <do that chore> and that it is important to be a man of my word. I havn't done it yet / I did forget. I know that may make you feel let down / annoyed / worried - and I understand you feeling that way - I'm sorry. I will make sure I do it before bed / tomorrow / now."

BUT: You need to talk/act from a position of "your word" - not because it'll make her angry. Your mindset needs to be strong/independant - not worried about her response. She'll be annoyed/angry etc. You need to be OK with that. Validate her feeling (that's she's annoyed), but DON'T accept that you did anything wrong. Truely believe that you are a good person, that mistakes happen, and that although you are sorry that it rubbed her the wrong way, that really is her problem.

If you say the truth, don't feel a need to justify. Feeling a need to justify/explain is putting you in the role of "being wrong" and her in the role of "the parent". Your role really is "I do what i do and I'm happy/comfortable with my actions". Whatever you do, I'm presuming that you did it because you thought it was right. So your wordy conversation about what you did is NOT about you explaining why you did it, your wordiness is pre-validating her response. If she ASKS why you did it - then you can explain your reasoning or the circumstances.

My other point: make sure you are not saying YES to requests that you really can't do. That's just setting yourself up for failure. But saying no is the same formula - wordy. "I realise that <X> is important to you and you really want to get it done, and I'd like to support you, but in this instance /today I can't do it. I can do that tomorrow? / What if I <Y> instead?"

[Chansen]

ArleighBurke, you have hit the bulls eye on this one. You are very wise. Thank you so much! This gives me a lot of freedom and confidence.

"Be a man of honour - courage - truth - not hiding from conflict." - this hits me hard in just the right way. Hiding from conflict is cowardly and approaching truth, even though it might get you punched, it much more honorable. Also, I can relate to when you said that in your childhood you made "little white lies and alternate explainations to mum to disguise my true feelings/motivations. It erodes your self-confidence and after a while you doubt your own motivations." I know this is an issues I already have to deal with BIG TIME. I really have to work on this.

I will really be trying to work on this this week and report back and for sure have more questions for you. I know I will be referencing what you wrote often. Thank you so very much for sharing your wisdom. It really will make a difference in my relationship with my spouse and also with how I hold myself as a man.

Thank you, thank you.

[ArleighBurke]

You're welcome.

I have learnt much from this forum. Coming to terms with my BPDw has forced me to examine my behaviours and become more true to myself.

[Chansen]

Very true @ArleighBurke. I definitely can see opportunities to better improve myself in this situation with my BPDw. It brings some light to the darkness you can so easily loose yourself in.

Here is another tough question I have: I feel terribly stressed writing on this forum that she might somehow find out what I have been writing and use against me as the things I am writing about are extremely sensitive topics between us. I find myself deleting my history constantly in the case she stumbles on it while looking for something else. I also feel so guilty hiding it from her, but I fear telling her will lead her to look into what I am writing. I know she would keep her word however if I told her that I would like her to refrain from reading anything I write for the sake of my privacy... .but then I am worried she would make up situations that I am only complaining and lying about our relationship and the only help I am getting is blaming her for our marriage problems... .again a dilemma.

How have you dealt with this and what do you recommend? A solution perhaps that would give me some sleep as I find myself up late at night writing while she is sleeping to avoid her seeing me?

Thank you again!

[ArleighBurke]

I would HATE for her to find this forum. Expecially since I use my real name (a deliberate choice I thought would keep me honest).

But I figure I NEED somewhere to be honest. If she ever finds out then it'll be horrible and would probably lead to divorse, but without this forum I'd be divorced anyway.

So deleting history is good (but obvious!). Most browsers have a "in-private browsing" feature which automatically doesn't store history... .

[Chansen]

That is a relief to hear and helpful advice. This really is such a helpful tool I can't imagine living without now.

[formflier]

  First of all:  Use chrome browser.  cntrl shift n gets you incognito.  Never again log in with a "normal browser".  Her finding out would be bad.  Just complicates things.  You are not hiding it.  You have a right to privacy.  Next:  Do not lie.  By the same token you don't have to answer or have discussions on her timetable.  So, you get pestered about did you do this or that and instead of a yes or no you let her know you are in the middle something and will be available to give her your full attention in an hour or something like that.  Then, just lay it out there.  Yes or no if it is done or not.   The instant she takes a position of dominance, where you "owe" her a task or she is "grading" you.  Discussion is over, walk away.    She is not your boss.  Now, if it is something you really did promise and forgot, messed up.  Own it, apologize and end discussion.  Things to look for to see if you should continue or not.  If she sticks to the issue she asked about, go with it.  If "always", never and other absolutes come up.  End it.  You can't win.  This is battle I am still fighting.  She wants to pin me down and "guarantee" things will be done on a timetable.  Life happens, she is not understanding.  I don't jade and I don't promise her outcomes anymore.  "Hey honey can you do xyz"  formflier "Sure, I'll do the best I can to get it done quickly."    "I need it done by abc".   (now it gets tricky)  " I can get it done by then if I let (insert issue) slide"    If she says OK.  We are good.  If she sighs, and starts to ask what I have been doing with my time, suggests I should work harder, then I end it.  Again, she is your partner, not your boss.  

FF  

[Jessica84]

I often wonder the same about how people keep this forum private from their spouses ? I don't live with my uBPDbf so I have no idea how they do it! That might be a good new topic to start for tips and ideas.

Have you read the lessons about validation and SET? It might make you happy to know the T in SET stands for TRUTH (Sympathy, Empathy, Truth). It's a great communication tool and sticks with your values of honesty.

I stumbled a lot on this one at first. I'm kept doing it in the wrong order. I'd start with telling the truth first, then offer my support/empathy... .too late... .KABOOM! He'd blow up at me. We have to lead up to it. And sometimes follow it with even more sympathy/empathy. Over time and with practice, you can learn to be honest AND deal with her reactions. And if she blows up, you'll have the right tools to minimize any damage.

[workinprogress]

I'm going to throw something out here... .

What if, instead of reacting to her and lying, just get to the point where you just don't care? 

I think BPD's only respect power.  When they badger us they are displaying their power over us.  It is a challenge in a way.  She is thinking, "will he stand up to me?  Will he put me in my place?"

I am getting to the point where if you are in total control, and don't let her impact you negatively, she will feel secure.  It is just a hunch that I am developing... .

My new theory is you need to have a certain aloofness, along with displayed confidence.  Again, I think they need to feel secure in your masculinity. 

[formflier]

  Keeping it private:   So, right now I'm sitting in the corner of the kitchen.  Small chromebook on my lap.  I'm in the corner so nobody is behind me, no windows.    S20 is lounging at other table on his chromebook.  D3 is running around stealing my chips and looking at what her older brother is eating.  (  Yes, I am curious what she is doing awake now).  Wife is in living room.  I think she is watching a show or something.  Hanging out with D18.  I talk to my s20 some and then type.  Look at another thread.  Type some more.  If anyone starts to come I can easily close incognito.  I have normal web pages up on my regular browser.  Jessica is spot on with the SET reminder as is workinprogress about just "not caring".  I would like to offer some nuance to workinprogresses advice.  if they are pissed about you not doing it let them know that while you feel differently (don't care or it's not a big deal to you that xyz isn't done) you understand that they feel differently and that you hope to be emotionally supportive as they work through their feelings.  Emotional support is much different than running around trying to complete tasks to make them happy.  They can be pissed all they want, you can be happy all you want.  Those aren't in conflict.  

FF

[Icthelight]

My new theory is you need to have a certain aloofness, along with displayed confidence.  Again, I think they need to feel secure in your masculinity. 

My uBPDw has directly told me that she wants me to lead, make the tough decisions and take care of her so she can feel loved and secure. When in my mind, I've tried doing that, she would push back, disagree vehemently or get angry. I would react to this, feel frustrated, unappreciated, confused and my frustration would then come out. Ugly, vicious cycle.

Now that I know about JADE, validation and BPD, my focus is to do more of this. Lots of self care, not take things personally and lead our family with confidence. Just understanding why she does the things she does has been huge for me. I'm beginning to not feel responsible for her emotions, unhappiness and anger. I really believed that I was causing all of that. Not anymore. Huge step forward. Chansen, you can do the same.

I learned about private browsing on this forum and have been using it ever since. I used to feel guilty about going on here and keeping it from my wife, but not anymore. I've benefited from this community greatly and it is helping me personally and our marriage. She would not look at it that way, so I've decided to classify this as my private self care.

[Ceruleanblue]

Yes, DO NOT go down the path of dishonesty. I hate, hate, hate, how my BPDh lies to me. He knew how much honesty meant to me when we first started dating, and unfortunately, I didn't find out how many lies he told me until they started slowly being revealed after we married. I was able to excuse "some" because he had gotten out of something very abusive, and I know he lied to avoid conflict(like you were tempted to do to avoid chaos). What he never realized, was that lying to his ex, and lying to ME, only makes things worse. Plus, I'm not a knife wielding, crazy person like his ex, so it's frustrating to me that he'd treat me as if I'd react like she did to an unpleasant truth!

Lying damages trust, and in actuality, it's cowardly. It's better to face initial anger, or frustration than to ruin trust, and possibly the marriage. It's also about respect. Respect your wife enough to honor her with the truth. I felt very disrespected by BPDh's continued lies.

We are five years in, and he just confessed to a HUGE lie two nights ago. I handled it really well, mostly because I'd known all along he was lying. He'd sworn up and down, he wasn't, but I know him, and his habits, and his lie didn't fit with him or his character(or rash choices). I'm glad he finally told the truth, but we ended up having yet another discussion about why it would have been so much better to have told the truth initially. As it is, I can't really trust him.

I don't want you to end up where we are trust wise. It's far better to tell the truth, than to damage the marriage. Living with pwBPD has enough issues, that we need to not add to them. Lying just adds to the issues.

[globalnomad]

I agree with many of the responses here -- it is just not worth compromising your personal integrity for the sake of avoiding conflict.

I am speaking from experience here. Earlier in our relationship -- when I was utterly exhausted from conflict -- I would often tell white lies to avoid upsetting my fiance. I was just tired of conflict and wanted to avoid another endless, circular fight. Examples:

- I met a good friend after work for a drink, but instead told her I was working late.

- I didn't eat the lunch she made for me because of a last minute work lunch.

- I forget to pick up a package for my fiance, but when she asks I tell her it hasn't arrived yet but I'll get it tomorrow.

These seemed like pretty harmless lies but I soon realized they were only causing me more trouble. Two reasons:

1) She will sense when you are lying and it will undermine her trust in you -- no matter that it's only a white lie and there was no real intention to deceive.

2) If honesty is an important value for you, undermining that just for the sake of maintaining harmony is not a good idea. More importantly, avoiding conflict only means postponing the inevitable. Is your wife overly controlling? Unforgiving of mistakes? Does she tend to view everything in black and white terms? I felt all these things were true in my case. But avoiding these issues does not make them go away.

Recently I have been hiding nothing, even when I know the truth will be upsetting to her. But I now realize the issues above are her issues. I don't have to feel bad about the fact she gets upset. My fiance herself has said she wants me to be more like a rock when she gets dysregulated. I don't take stuff as personally anymore. I view it as a passing storm. I walk away if necessary, and come back when the skies are clear again.