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Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse... Have you considered that being critical, judgmental, or invalidating toward the other parent, no matter what she or he just did will only make matters worse? Someone has to be do something. This means finding the motivation to stop making things worse, learning how to interrupt your own negative responses, body language, facial expressions, voice tone, and learning how to inhibit your urges to do things that you later realize are contributing to the tensions.
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Author Topic: Did I take the text exchange to far? Need some validation coaching...  (Read 431 times)
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« on: January 08, 2016, 05:16:37 PM »

 Wife came home after work and was demanding to know what we did all day.  D18 started to try to tell her, but wife "blew up" at ate out at IHOP.  Cursing, f-bombing grabbed other kids that were in school and "went out to eat".  Then called back and was very obvious about inviting S20 and D18 (but not me).  D18 chose to go do whatever they are doing.  S20 decided to stay.  Then the texts started.  On the good side, she apologized.  Then she started with all the rest you see.  I made some attempts to validate and also state my truth and offer to let her know what I was thinking.  Tried to stay away from directly saying she was wrong about her thoughts on me.         ff wife: I apologize for raising my voice earlier, It's upsetting that you do not think about me when making plans, Rather than picking up shelving boards while I was at work so we can all go out to eat and see the horse together d8 included when I got home from work and d8 came home from school you 4:27 PM  ff wife: Decided to go visit the horse and go out and do all the fun stuff while I'm at work and then go pick up shelving boards and start working as soon as I walk in the door on a Friday night I wanted to go do something fun with my family after being at work all week I always considered you in this way 4:29 PM  Me: I have a plan for this evening. I was waiting for you to get home to discuss it. 4:29 PM  ff wife: instead and make dinner and take care of the house and you're going to start working because you done your fun stuff during the day 4:29 PM  ff wife: That is inconsiderate and thoughtless and I hope not purposeful you could have come and eat lunch with me all of you 4:30 PM  Me: I organized my day so that we had the option, but not the requirement to do fun stuff together tonight. 4:30 PM  Me: If you would like to know what I have have considered or not considered or otherwise thought about, I'm available to discuss that. 4:31 PM  ff wife: When I walked in the door from work you said that you were on the phone trying to get on board you can go pick up for shelving for the garage I want to do something phone with my family tonight but you obviously planned to work so go ahead and I will have fun with the kids 4:48 PM  ff wife: I did my best to include you when u worked, U seem to be doing ur best to exclude me from funb and work when I am home 4:51 PM  ff wife: I also actually did the job of stay at home parent, Planning dinner buying the groceries and having it ready, NOT leaving it for the one who works to come home and do as well because I was out all day having fun 4:52 PM  Me: I can see it is frustrating to plan on working after you have had a long work day. I believe anyone would feel that way. I didn't have any plans to work tonight 4:52 PM  (note:  reading this again, it seems like a lame attempt at SET.  What could I do better?)  Me: if you would like to learn of what I was going to propose for tonights activities I would be interested in discussing that with you 4:53 PM  ff wife: Too bad u didn't have plans to include the rest of us in eating out, We cannot afford to eat out twice in one day yet u went to IHOP this morning instead of waiting for when we cld all go 4:55 PM  ff wife: I ate leftovers eveybday as stay at home parent, U eat out, I take my lunch everyday to work, mu ate out every day 4:55 PM  Me: If you would like to know my plans, I would be happy to discuss them with you 5:01 PM  Me: I have no interest in fighting with you about my plans or my thoughts. If you are interested in knowing them, I am interested in sharing. 5:03 PM  ff wife: It's not frustrating to work after a day at work, It's frustrating to hv a spouse expect the working spouse to still do the work of the stay at home parent too 5:03 PM  ff wife: Good, I hv no interest in fighting with u either , my texts make that obviois 5:04 PM  Me: If you would like to know my expectations, I would be happy to share them with you. 5:04 PM  
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« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2016, 05:24:43 PM »

I think what may help you is to see the big picture of why she felt this way in general. Why do you think she was upset in general?
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« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2016, 05:49:01 PM »

  She believes that "nobody" likes her at work and that because of that she has been "passed over" for better paying positions.    This has been the topic of several of our conversations this week and she has claimed that I am not a good listener about her work problems.    Oldest two are getting ready to go back to college (abandonment stuff).  Perhaps she just wanted time alone with kids tonight and wanted to create a reason to do that.  Honest answer, I have no idea why she is upset.  The texts appear to suggest she is upset with my thoughts, plans and that kind of thing.  She has those 180 out.  Very common for her when she is upset.  Basically, I know of nothing "real" I have done or thought that warranted any kind of upsetness.  Sigh,

FF
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« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2016, 05:53:07 PM »

  Yesterday she asked via text if I was OK with her selecting a counselor at our new location.    So, something is on her mind.  She asked to talk about plans when she got home yesterday (again, very positive she asked).  I made myself available, she brought up a few house issues, we agreed on way forward and it got done.  

FF
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« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2016, 06:20:50 PM »

What jumps out at me in this exchange is that you are not addressing her complaints nor concerns, but instead keep referring to your plans for the evening. I don't think you mean to "sandbag" her issues, but it may have come across that way to her.

She obviously had expectations that you'd have prepared dinner and was punishing you for having dined out at lunch. And she's jumping to conclusions that you spent all day having fun, only to start working on the shelving project when she returned home, therefore you must not want to be with her and have a family night together.

I didn't think your attempt at SET was lame, it just came too late in the exchange--she was already upset.

Putting myself in her shoes, I've had similar reactions when I've worked alone really hard on an outdoor project like clearing out culverts, while my husband had spent the whole day doing something like organizing his books, and then he asked me what I was going to make for dinner.  You could see the steam coming out of my ears.

But there are a lot of underlying assumptions she is making, probably the most important one is that "You don't consider me; you do your own thing."
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« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2016, 06:32:47 PM »

What jumps out at me in this exchange is that you are not addressing her complaints nor concerns, but instead keep referring to your plans for the evening. I don't think you mean to "sandbag" her issues, but it may have come across that way to her.   But there are a lot of underlying assumptions she is making, probably the most important one is that "You don't consider me; you do your own thing."

 Yeah, I see that.  Here was my pickle.  In the last week, I've done more "substantive" text exchanges with my wife than I have in a year.  We don't text about issues, or at least I don't.  She will fling texts at me and I ignore them, or invite her to have an in person conversation.  Things have been much better.  With us lately, and even this text exchange started with an apology (or sorts).  So, I'm trying to reinforce her efforts.  But, I'm not going to "get into" or address her issues via text.  Not going to happen.  She knows this, and perhaps she was pushing to see if my limits are really moving.  I did offer to discuss plans with her in person several times.  She instead kept up her attack.  Let me back up a second.  Cat Familiar, What would "dealing with" her complaint look like to you?  Note:  She said and insinuated that I "planned" my day to exclude her.  I'm sitting at home alone and she is out with all 8 kinds.  I'm making an assumption about S20.  He stayed for a while and then went to auto parts store.  They didn't have what he needed, and he is not back home.  I'm not going to put him in the middle of it.  I'm not going to chase them and beg to be included.  But she is doing, what she accused me of doing.  

FF  
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« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2016, 06:47:42 PM »

I think she was upset because she felt excluded or not good enough.

She believes that "nobody" likes her at work and that because of that she has been "passed over" for better paying positions. 

This is another example of her feeling excluded. I wager this is affecting quite a bit. 

This has been the topic of several of our conversations this week and she has claimed that I am not a good listener about her work problems. 

Do you think there is validity to what she is suggesting?

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« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2016, 07:01:39 PM »

  Do you think there is validity to what she is suggesting?  

 Hard to tell.  The is elementary school teaching.  Mostly women and a couple guys.    Most of her complaints are about something they said or did, followed by a long diatribe about what that means they think, and think of her.  I don't understand the culture and "norms" there, so I honestly wouldn't be able to "spot" decisions that might indicate she is being picked on by administration.  She asked me for my thoughts on why they are doing what they are doing and wasn't impressed by my answer.  They have a guy teacher they are trying to get some sort of license for and put him in a classroom.  My wife already has the license.  Guy has flunked his test a time or two, yet they are trying to move him out to another place.  My wife claims that it means they don't like her.  My opinion was that they guy is obviously a rock and can't pass the test.  My wife is competent and they want to "keep" on on the existing team.  I take the action as a compliment.  She takes it as rejection.    I think this looking for reasons to be rejected.  I keep that to myself.  When I asked her if she was the administrator, who would you keep on your team, you or the guy that can't pass a test.  She answered that she would keep the person that is competent and can pass.  Sigh,

FF
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« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2016, 07:11:27 PM »

  Cat familiar, You have it right that tons of assumptions are there.  My daughter didn't get to tell her about what actually happened, nor did I.  There were fun parts of the day (time with muddy horses) and some frustrating parts.  Some lovely time finding and using the dump (solid waste transfer station) at our new county.    The actual thoughts I had set up my day for everyone to be home when my wife got home (me included) so we could have a "spur of the moment" conversation about what to do as a family at the end of our first week living in a new location.  My plan (suggestion) would have been to go to a local water park that we have a groupon with and get pizza (those pesky dinner plans).    I'm not going to try and raise my voice to "talk over" f bombs and accusations to attempt to get my wife to see the reality of my actual thoughts and desires.  So, I sit here, alone.    I've been keeping myself busy around here and about to go pick up a book I've been wanting to get back into.   I would rather be with my family.  

FF
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« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2016, 07:32:08 PM »

Cat Familiar,

What would "dealing with" her complaint look like to you?

Note:  She said and insinuated that I "planned" my day to exclude her.  I'm sitting at home alone and she is out with all 8 kinds.  I'm making an assumption about S20.  He stayed for a while and then went to auto parts store.  They didn't have what he needed... .and he is not back home.

I'm not going to put him in the middle of it.  I'm not going to chase them and beg to be included.

But she is doing, what she accused me of doing.

FF

I can see your point of not wanting to discuss things in texts, but she is doing exactly that.

Here's my take on her texts:

ff wife: I apologize for raising my voice earlier... .It's upsetting that you do not think about me when making plans... .Rather than picking up shelving boards while I was at work so we can all go out to eat and see the horse together d8 included when I got home from work and d8 came home from school you 4:27 PM



possible reply (though I'm not very good at SET): I'm sorry you felt I didn't think about you. Anyone would feel slighted if they didn't feel included. I thought I'd surprise you with a fun family night tonight. I was thinking of you.

ff wife: instead and make dinner and take care of the house and you're going to start working because you done your fun stuff during the day 4:29 PM

ff wife: That is inconsiderate and thoughtless and I hope not purposeful you could have come and eat lunch with me all of you 4:30 PM



possible reply: Yes, you always did so much when you were a SAHM and I really appreciate how hard you work at your job. I was excited about surprising you with a fun evening.


The problem was that she was immediately dysregulated when she came home and you never had a chance to share your ideas. Sorry you missed out on a fun family night.



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« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2016, 07:37:05 PM »

Hard to tell.  The is elementary school teaching.  Mostly women and a couple guys. 

Most of her complaints are about something they said or did, followed by a long diatribe about what that means they think, and think of her.

I don't understand the culture and "norms" there, so I honestly wouldn't be able to "spot" decisions that might indicate she is being picked on by administration.

I do not think you really have to know or understand what it is really like there. Although you can validate her feelings. I am getting that you do not want to validate the invalid?

Part of validation is paying attention to what she is saying regardless if it is something that may be completely outlandish. You do not need to agree. Listening conveys that person in the moment, is important to you. You want to convey that you understand the other person's perspective and acknowledge the valid. Somewhere in what another person is saying, even if it is outlandish, is a kernel of truth. 

I take the action as a compliment.  She takes it as rejection. 

Did you tell her this?

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« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2016, 07:53:15 PM »

Honestly, the vague "I have a plan... ." seems a bit like baiting to me.

She feels left out of your plans and you didn't reassure her that you included her in the plan at least at first.
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« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2016, 07:58:51 PM »

  Did you tell her this?    

 Yes I told her it was a compliment and I would keep her on my team and get rid of the rock that fails test.  She acknowledged this.  Then dismissed the point of view.  

FF
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« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2016, 08:00:18 PM »

Honestly, the vague "I have a plan, " seems a bit like baiting to me.   She feels left out of your plans and you didn't reassure her that you included her in the plan at least at first.  

 It was intentionally vague.  If she wants to know, she can ask.  If I had explicitly told her I was thinking of her, it would have been argumentative and invalidating.  I used to do this a lot.  

FF
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« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2016, 08:15:00 PM »

Did you tell her this?

Yes I told her it was a compliment and I would keep her on my team and get rid of the rock that fails test.  She acknowledged this.

Then dismissed the point of view.

FF

Do you see how this can be invalidating? She was trying to convey her feelings of not being wanted/rejected. Although you were giving her a compliment, it was invalidating to how she was feeling. Basically, you conveyed what and how she was feeling was wrong by telling her it was a compliment.
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« Reply #15 on: January 08, 2016, 08:20:37 PM »

She got upset at the mention of IHOP. For some families- I Hop is a special treat- and for a large family - eating out is a special treat. I think she was upset that you decided to do this for lunch and not dinner when she could have been included and also go a break from cooking. Not only did she miss out on a family outing ( that could have been all of you together ), she now has to come home and cook dinner too. No outing or cooking break for her.

I can't read her mind but I'm thinking she'd probably love  to come home to see dinner cooked and have plans for a family outing at a restaurant.
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« Reply #16 on: January 08, 2016, 08:22:00 PM »

  Right, I understand that.  Which is why I didn't open my mouth about it until she directly asked what I thought of the situation.  I didn't even ask if she wanted my opinion.  I waited.  Up until that point I had validated, listened, etc.  If she asks my opinion or what I think is going on, I will tell her my opinion.  If it invalidates her, it does.  

FF
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« Reply #17 on: January 08, 2016, 08:23:23 PM »

   I can't read her mind but I'm thinking she'd probably love  to come home to see dinner cooked and have plans for a family outing at a restaurant.

 Likely should would like that.    I had plans (but not demands) for a family outing that included food.  

FF
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« Reply #18 on: January 08, 2016, 08:27:30 PM »

I know you are affected by her outburst but I think she has been trying to tell you that if the roles are reversed and she is at work- she would like to have some of the things she did when she was a stay at home mom.

What if you just did some of them and not get focused on her outburst- there were some feelings there that beyond validation- she wants to see happen.
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« Reply #19 on: January 08, 2016, 08:47:09 PM »

  What if you just did some of them and not get focused on her outburst- there were some feelings there that beyond validation- she wants to see happen.  

 I do many (I would argue most) of the things she did.  I also dispute many of her claims about how she was as SAHM.  Especially when she goes to the "always" this and "never" that.  My view is that she rarely notices.  If I point out something she minimizes it, it doesn't count because that is easy or because I was following the example she set and didn't come up with it on my own.  It is rare that a meal I prepare is complimented.  It is more common that I will prepare something or be in the process of preparing, she will come home and begin making something else while claiming I didn't plan make anything or otherwise should have known what she wanted.  I don't engage in these fights or argue with her about it.  And these incidences get less and less (they really are).  Compliments on
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« Reply #20 on: January 08, 2016, 08:51:52 PM »

More later about got busted on bpdfamily,
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