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Author Topic: How to disengage with love during a phone/facetime call?  (Read 491 times)
SweetCharlotte
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« on: January 09, 2016, 02:59:28 AM »

It was one of those incidents that makes you question your perception. He was going on and on over FaceTime (we are in a long-distance marriage) about how he had had to scold so many people that evening for work-related reasons. He got more and more angry as he vented to me about it. I braced myself because I knew that he would direct this anger at me next. And so he did, only he claimed I caused it because I told him not to push it with me as soon as he started to pick a fight. So was it his belligerence or my defensiveness that caused the horrible ordeal? He was yelling into the phone at close range. I hate it when he uses FaceTime to rage at me, so that I not only have to hear his unloving voice but also see his face transformed by utter hatred.

I know I should have just validated him and maybe that would have neutralized him, but he started to claw at me as only he knows how. I tried to defend myself, a no-no. It's hard on the phone to disengage, because you have to hang up and that is more rude than walking out of the room.

What can one say to "disengage with love" over the phone, especially in a long-distance relationship when you will not see the pwBPD for several days or even weeks?
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ProKonig

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« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2016, 04:33:15 AM »

Well, if he becomes hateful, which is essentially dysregulation. Once that starts validation can diffuse it a little, but in my experience it's too late. Validation has to occur before the dysregulation right?  You should just go, "Sorry, this is unacceptable. Love you, good night." End it. There's no point in hoping for the loving good bye after it's started.

I hope I interpreted your scenario correctly, apologies if I misunderstood.

I know it's difficult to leave a bad atmosphere over such a long period of time. I find when I disengage quickly and set that clear boundary my partner is more likely to come back to me first with the unsaid (always unsaid right?) acknowledgement they slipped up. Better than letting it get out of control.
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SweetCharlotte
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« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2016, 12:19:53 PM »

Well, if he becomes hateful, which is essentially dysregulation. Once that starts validation can diffuse it a little, but in my experience it's too late. Validation has to occur before the dysregulation right?  You should just go, "Sorry, this is unacceptable. Love you, good night." End it. There's no point in hoping for the loving good bye after it's started.

I hope I interpreted your scenario correctly, apologies if I misunderstood.

I know it's difficult to leave a bad atmosphere over such a long period of time. I find when I disengage quickly and set that clear boundary my partner is more likely to come back to me first with the unsaid (always unsaid right?) acknowledgement they slipped up. Better than letting it get out of control.

Thank you very, very much. This is great advice. Validation is for prevention of dysregulation. What can you do when someone is shouting in your face in high-definition close-up?

You have given me the right words too. I tried saying, "I cannot engage with you because you are disrespecting me." This prompted an avalanche of self-defensive texts in which he insisted, with plenty of caps and exclamation points, that he respected me totally and all the time. At any rate, things have calmed down after one day of silence. No acknowledgement of his having gone berserk, as usual.

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formflier
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« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2016, 03:22:20 PM »

The theory is you make it about you.  I can't continue this call right now,

FF
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SweetCharlotte
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« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2016, 05:04:46 PM »

The theory is you make it about you.

I can't continue this call right now... .

FF

Indubitably! I'm stickin' to MY story next time!
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Grey Kitty
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« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2016, 03:10:54 PM »

Love yourself and love him.

Listening to that attack is bad for you (hurtful) and is unhealthy coping for him. Does neither of you good.

"Gotta go. Love you. Bye"

In other words, disengaging is boundary enforcement. It needs to be fast and clean. It is intrinsically not "nice" or "friendly". Don't worry about sugarcoating it. ABSOLUTELY don't look for him to agree that it is the right thing to do!

Just be as fast and as consistent as you can!
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Grey Kitty
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« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2016, 03:14:15 PM »

Honestly I don't try very hard to validate when I'm being attacked. It is really hard to be sincerely compassionate under those circumstances. Maybe one of two rounds at best. It also isn't all that likely to work. The time for easier better and more effective validation was when he was griping about coworkers.
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SweetCharlotte
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« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2016, 12:16:42 AM »

The time for easier better and more effective validation was when he was griping about coworkers.

Yes; thank you, Kitty. I think I will be more ready now to sign off when I'm under attack.

Validating at the right time is trickier. I'm getting to be a battle-scarred veteran, so when I hear him griping about others, I not only fear that I'm next. I KNOW that I'm next. He smells the fear, even over the phone. It has turned into a predictable drama of dysfunction. I want to disengage as soon as he starts criticizing everyone else. I want to say that he's at fault, etc. If I do validate, I sound phony.

Since the call last week, his health took a nosedive. I don't know if he was being feisty because his health was about to crash, or if his fit of temper brought on the physical situation, but he has been all but paralyzed since then. His old back pain returned (he had a disk removed years ago, but did not do the necessary follow-up of having the remaining disks fused together; his spine is basically disconnected and eroding). This week he has missed both days of work. I am concerned, especially being far away and unable to help him. Also, his absences are an issue for his employer. Once again, I can only sympathize with him on his pain, and not ask about whether his job is in danger.
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Grey Kitty
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« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2016, 06:26:18 PM »

The time for easier better and more effective validation was when he was griping about coworkers.

Yes; thank you, Kitty. I think I will be more ready now to sign off when I'm under attack.

Validating at the right time is trickier. I'm getting to be a battle-scarred veteran, so when I hear him griping about others, I not only fear that I'm next. I KNOW that I'm next. He smells the fear, even over the phone. It has turned into a predictable drama of dysfunction. I want to disengage as soon as he starts criticizing everyone else. I want to say that he's at fault, etc. If I do validate, I sound phony.

Your instinct to disengage when he starts griping about others isn't a bad one.

In order to validate him you need to be sincerely interested and concerned about how he is feeling. Otherwise it isn't sincere validation, and it backfires. When you say he smells the fear, you are exactly right--he is that tuned in to your emotions and feelings, and does sense it.

If you make it a habit to disengage when you are afraid like that, I think that will help you, and ultimately help your relationship.

Note, I didn't say disengage when you hear him complaining about others--That isn't the problem, your fear is the problem. As you get better at disengaging quickly when he turns abusive, you will start to trust yourself, and feel less fearful. Eventually you may be able to validate this sort of thing without fear.

But start by protecting yourself first. It really is the best thing you can do for your relationship. 
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Hidden Dragon
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« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2016, 05:32:13 AM »

Wow, exactly the topic I was searching for or was about to create... .

I sometimes find myself in similar situation like SweetCharlotte, often enough to feel that it is destructive for the rs.

It is mainly when I'm disvalidating (?) my uBPDGF, when trying to explain that some topics are not right for me, like her exes (she mentions situations with them - often unconsciously - again and again), or when I`m trying to give her a polite hint that she could change some behavior or do something in other way (like not to overwork, drive aggressively, drink a bit less etc.). Sometimes she understands me (in discussion), but when days later she does it again and again and I comment it, then in some cases a fight starts, with her escalating voice and absurd and hurting arguments. I already know that showing her that her points are nonsense and lead to further escalation only exacerbate the whole thing.

Do you guys mean that the only constructive way to cope when (on her side) it already switched to fight mode  is to leave the discussion - in a polite way, but asap?
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Grey Kitty
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« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2016, 10:51:15 AM »

Do you guys mean that the only constructive way to cope when (on her side) it already switched to fight mode  is to leave the discussion - in a polite way, but asap?

Not the *only* way. At least not *always*.

It is, however, the quickest, cleanest, and only 100% certain way.

For you, and in your situation, let me offer a couple suggestions.

1. Stop trying to give her polite hints to change her behavior. She's not doing these things because she is rude, or because she is stupid. She's doing them for much deeper and harder to change reasons, and she won't just get better at a polite suggestion... .as you seem to be noticing.

So stop doing what doesn't work.

These are recurring situations, so think them out ahead. Some of them are unpleasant or hard to watch (overwork, drinking) I'd suggest you think about whether you can let those go.

Some are harmful to you. Driving aggressively when you are in the car could put your life in danger. Talking about an ex of hers in a way that hurts you emotionally.

Many of them are somewhere between unpleasant and harmful, and may cross the line depending on how far she goes with them. So think about these sort of recurring things in advance and try to come up with a firm decision point for you of which ones and when taken how far are harmful and you wish to protect yourself from.

Once you've sorted that out, you have two plans of action:

A. If it isn't harmful, don't engage with it. Not encouraging it, not discouraging it. Just let her be.

B. If it crosses the threshold of being harmful, remove yourself from the situation. Make whatever you do to be solely about YOU, not about HER. ("I can't listen to this right now." is about you. "You hurt me when you talk about ex" is about her) Perhaps you can change the subject. Perhaps that isn't enough. Perhaps you have to say goodbye, and hang up the phone. Or walk out of the room. Or ask her to stop the car so you can get out. (*NOTE* Cars are a particular problem because you are kinda trapped when you are in the passenger seat. If you have recurring issues while driving, don't get in the car with her at all. Find other transportation solutions, perhaps taking two cars)

2. There *IS* the other option, which is when she starts getting upset and attacking to validate her *feelings*. She is obviously feeling hurt, threatened, or something, or she wouldn't be in that state.

This is much harder. For one thing, it is hard to be sincerely caring about somebody who is lashing out at you. If you aren't feeling sincerely compassionate, it won't work, and I'd suggest not trying.

For another thing, she's already worked up and less likely to respond well to validation.

Don't validate the invalid the words she is attacking you with or things she is accusing you of most likely aren't true. Don't "agree" to them to shut her up. Certainly don't correct her if she's wrong, as that will be invalidating and make the fight worse!

Save trying this until you are better with the basics -- Not invalidating her. Enforcing boundaries of getting out of the fight when you both will just end up more hurt if you stay. Being validating when she *isn't* attacking you.
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« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2016, 11:26:24 AM »

Hi SweetCharlotte,

we all experienced that our loved ones have a tendency to latch on a topic and get angry. There is a reason rubberbands around the wrist are one way to help a pwBPD - snapping them out of a mood. For us and even more remotely this can be more difficult. Timeouts can often help to provide the space and time to shift mode in a healthy manner. A strategy where I stop the call early and resume later has worked for me. Stopping earlier is often better but the best times to hang up are usually apparent with hindsight  .
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