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Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits. Practicing lawyer, Senior Family Mediator, and former Licensed Clinical Social Worker with twelve years’ experience and an expert on navigating the Family Court process.
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Author Topic: Formflier's validation challenge  (Read 376 times)
formflier
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« on: January 12, 2016, 09:37:21 AM »

  I had an interesting weekend.  Thanks to all that helped me work through it.  Babybucks was kind enough to challenge me to validate something that I think it total BS.  So, I'll give it a shot.  Hopefully you guys can help me through this.  Where I think I am.  I think I am pretty good at avoiding active invalidation.  Probably still could work more on not invalidation through body language posture and all that.  I still struggle with validation  But I'm working on it.  Hopefully this will help.  So, for starters I read through the lesson on validation.  https://bpdfamily.com/content/communication-skills-validation  Then reread a couple points.  Below is what Babyducks posted for reference.  
  How she said it was that she she works full time I get no say in what happens on the weekend.  (I would guess this is what you would describe as unpalatable).  I didn't debate that point, tried to listen.  

 Interesting.   I am not sure who the "I" is here, you or your wife.  I agree completely that her need to have more recreation after a full work week could have been expressed in a way that was both clearer and less negative.   But, as we all know pwBPD have poor communication skills.  with 20/20 hindsight what would a validation look like around this ?

  1. I was so so on being present and open.  I was in the middle of a garage project and she was "stealing" my workers.  Now that my JADE is out of the way, I could have done this better.  I was reactive.  Oh wait, more JADE, I had just spent the night in a hotel because of the TV.  (no wonder this stuff is hard "in the moment"  2.  I made no attempt to be reflective.  Honestly, I did think about it, but figured I would sound like a smarta$$ confirming through active listening that if she works I get no say.  She most likely would have not confirmed it and would have zipped off on another rabbit trail.  I think I was probably wise to avoid "refelecting"  3.  Reading between the lines/mindreading:  I should have made an attempt to do this, because I think I would have come up with she was tired, felt overworked, and wanted to have some fun, blow off some steam  I don't think she wanted to steal my workers or involve the police to do it.  4.  Understanding behavior in terms of history and biology:  I was somewhat aware of this, but in the moment was not really empathetic with this, and certainly didn't try to empathize.  Likely this would have diffused things somewhat.  5.  Normalizing reactions:  (In her mind) she had planned to do this all week.  She felt like I was attempting to "take it away" from her.  Completely normal that it would be upsetting.  6.  Radical Genuineness:  I completely failed at this.  See my above JADEs.  I was pissed at the way she was behaving.  In not so many words I communicated this to her.    So,

FF gets in the time machine and goes back.  What do I wish I could have done and said.  I wish I would have put down the tool I had in my hand.  Perhaps reached out and lightly touched her and said "

FF wife, hey, what's going on?"  At which point she would have repeated something about going to water park.  Most likely still in a horrible way.  My reflection would have been "So, you've been planning on doing this all week?"  No doubt she would have confirmed and spiked the ball, probably done a dance in the endzone.  

FF "Wow, given that you have been counting on this all week, it's easy to see how anyone (or should I say you) would be upset, because it looks like I am trying to undo your plans."  

FF  "I wasn't aware of your plans, can we take a quick 5 minutes to discuss the rest of the day, before getting you on your way to a well deserved fun time"  Note:  Given the level of intensity, it was unreasonable of me to expect to be able to turn off her plan.  At the time, it was so shocking, I wanted to "fight" the insanity.  I'm pretty sure that in other peoples posts I would say   "Yeah, dude, not a good plan, "  Babyducks, What do you think?  Everyone else please chime in and accept my challenge to ready through the validation lesson as you ready and respond to this post.  

FF      
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Grey Kitty
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« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2016, 03:04:11 PM »

Very good effort. I'm a bit skeptical though. Here's what I'm thinking.

Doing the right thing (click to insert in post) You identified a bunch of rabbit holes that you either did go down... .or were likely to go down and rewrote actions that avoided them all. That part is excellent.

 Do you really think she would have even stopped to discuss it with you for a minute had you done all the right things? That somehow doesn't fit the impression I've got from reading a bunch of your posts.

Attention(click to insert in post) what has me wondering a bit more is that you seem to have a basic assumption that I find disturbing. This isn't something you have stated directly, do I may be getting it only 60% right. Or may be fully off base. Anyhow, here it is.

Because she is ready and willing to throw a fit, she wins.

Her need to take the kids to a waterpark doesn't automatically win over your need to have labor for a project. Not every time. Especially if it wasn't prearranged.

Her willingness to call the police to "win" over it is completely unacceptable behavior in my book.

I do agree that this incident wasn't worth a huge fight over. But my impression is that for her any conflict is worth taking up to the maximum level to blast you down. Which means you lose 95% of the time because you aren't willing to go that far.

The whole dynamic is disturbing.
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formflier
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« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2016, 04:43:48 PM »

  Grey Kitty has found the mark.  Now, what to do with it.  She is asking to find a new MC around here.  Hmmm,

FF  PS, no, I don't think it would have stopped the water park, but would probably have set up working on the garage when they got back, maybe.
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Jessica84
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« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2016, 05:17:07 PM »

FF - you do very well maintaining boundaries, better than most. In fact, sometimes I read your posts and think wow, he doesn't budge an inch! Good for him! And your wife seems to respond positively to your rigid boundaries. Good for her!

In a grumpy sleepy state, I might've just gone in the next room and turned the tv OFF! And then went back to bed - no hotel, no fight, no tv noise blaring from the next room! You didn't do that. You asked her how long she planned to watch tv. You were respectful, polite and willing to talk to her, clearly laying out the times you were available to talk, and followed thru on being there those times.

I suppose you could've validated her in other ways, but I'm not sure how? How could you know that she was expecting to come home, relax and eat out on Friday? How could you know having lunch at IHOP would ruin her secret weekend plans? It's hard to validate what we don't know, especially when we're blindsided. So don't be too hard on yourself. You did your best, given all your JADE reasons 
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Grey Kitty
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« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2016, 09:02:08 PM »

I didn't mean stopping the waterpark... .I just ment getting her to pause long enough to discuss any of it with you in a non abusive non threatening manner.

But your next question... .what to do about it... .

Besides general best practices like self care (especially sleep hygiene in your case) validation in non-confrontational situations, etc... .

Can you clearly identify a typical situation where she pitched a fit to steamroller over you effectively and look at how you can stand up to her on it? This is gonna be tough. You have to be prepared for full-on escalation on her part most likely in front of your kids.

Another thing to consider is to look closely at exactly what you are afraid of and trying to avoid in this situation. I often found clarity after looking there.

But it is important, and not just for you. Your kids are learning how to live in a marriage by watching this!

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